[Primer] Elves!

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Originally Posted by dte

Wahou, didn't happen to me since ages! The thing is while hoof is almost a pure NO target, Regal is a decent GSZ target. But it isn't that important, and I think it's my most often side-out card. So I can easily understand those who play Ruric + 1 hoof. It's the second hoof I've got trouble with.
It's like in storm, Tendrill is generally better than empty. But as you can tutor for them, you usually have 1 of each in your 75. Even if there is good points about playing more than one ToA, it feels awkward to me to play the 2nd ToA before the first EtW.

If you're able to read French, I wrote a really detailed report in 3 parts:
http://www.legacy-france.org/index.p...7&#entry239311
http://www.legacy-france.org/index.p...15#entry239443
http://www.legacy-france.org/index.p...15#entry239489

And here you can read the one of the other elf player in top8 (Nounours01)
http://www.legacy-france.org/index.p...60#entry239474

And here the one of Adibou, whom lost his win & in to end up 21/145:
http://www.legacy-france.org/index.p...45#entry239214

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Unable to read french...
I am playing 2 Hoofs and 1 Shaman of the Pack

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Originally Posted by EEk1TwEEk

Unable to read french...
I am playing 2 Hoofs and 1 Shaman of the Pack

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I never tried this combination, but it seems pretty bad to me: your 3 potential targets can do only one thing: kill the opponent. And they only can do it if you have a proper board presence.

Ooze, WRP and Regal have a really different aim, they help you establishing board domination.

It does not mean that your configuration is bad, but it push you to always have the combo role, never the control one. I personally feel more comfortable with the opposite: control the game, and use your ability to combo if the gamestate allows you to do so safely or if you have more chances to lose by not doing so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

I never tried this combination, but it seems pretty bad to me: your 3 potential targets can do only one thing: kill the opponent. And they only can do it if you have a proper board presence.

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I know I'm pulling this out of context, but it made me lol. It's bad - it only lets you kill your opponent, lol.

Meh, the only time you cast NO is when you have a large enough board presence to make the mana needed. Sure, cornercases exist, but that's why I run Ruric Thar. That combination allows you to either outright kill your opponent or lock up the game to win it a few turns later. When I resolve NO, I want to make sure it counts.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

I know I'm pulling this out of context, but it made me lol. It's bad - it only lets you kill your opponent, lol.

Meh, the only time you cast NO is when you have a large enough board presence to make the mana needed. Sure, cornercases exist, but that's why I run Ruric Thar. That combination allows you to either outright kill your opponent or lock up the game to win it a few turns later. When I resolve NO, I want to make sure it counts.

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The point wasn't about that. The point was that the dearth of application in the targets turns the tutors themselves into things that are largely usable only with an established board - Ooze, Ruric, WRP serve to establish you in the game, and WRP at least just wins after it has achieved control. That struggle is often what games are about, not so much the win condition.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

The point wasn't about that. The point was that it renders the tutor targets into things that are largely usable only with an established board - Ooze, Ruric, WRP serve to establish you in the game, and WRP at least just wins after it has achieved control. That struggle is often what games are about, not so much the win condition.

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+1

GSZ and NO are shortcuts into a solution.
Hoof is for instant winning but since Elves can face trouble, It's not bad to have more than one plan. Especially if the deck struggles with itself.
For instance, if I knew a Green creature able to get the rid of a permanent, I would play it MD as a NO target.

Sometimes you have to be the fastest as you can but in a big event you re more likely to face combo decks like storm of sneak and show, and if you have nothing but your Behemoth plan, I don't think things
Are going to end up well.

Anyone have experience running singletons like Terastodon, Woodfall Primus, Sylvan Primordial?

I'm guessing that Rec Sage does enough of an adequate job to combat enchantments and artifacts. Only creatures and lands are left as potentially problematic, and lands (I assume) is such a small case that it might not be worth it to cover. Although I do hear often enough on this forum about Glacial Chasm and such difficulties.

I'd be hard pressed to add more than 2 fatties in the main deck. Pretty sure I'll try out 1 Hoof and 1 Ruric. I really like having Ruric in there just because an early-as-possible NO can mean a win against a lot of decks.

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Originally Posted by square_two

Anyone have experience running singletons like Terastodon, Woodfall Primus, Sylvan Primordial?

I'm guessing that Rec Sage does enough of an adequate job to combat enchantments and artifacts. Only creatures and lands are left as potentially problematic, and lands (I assume) is such a small case that it might not be worth it to cover. Although I do hear often enough on this forum about Glacial Chasm and such difficulties.

I'd be hard pressed to add more than 2 fatties in the main deck. Pretty sure I'll try out 1 Hoof and 1 Ruric. I really like having Ruric in there just because an early-as-possible NO can mean a win against a lot of decks.

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As far as I know, DRS laughs at Glacial Chasm and I learnt it the hard way...

@dte, isn't 8 fetches a little light on DRS food?

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Originally Posted by Zombie

@dte, isn't 8 fetches a little light on DRS food?

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There is more food for DRS with 8 fetches today than there was with 10 a month ago.
Dig is gone, our opponent's graveyard is our playground again (or we're playing against D&T and doing quite fine anyway).

So no, I didn't miss a 9th fetch. I'm actually thinking more and more about replacing the 8th I should admit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

There is more food for DRS with 8 fetches today than there was with 10 a month ago.
Dig is gone, our opponent's graveyard is our playground again (or we're playing against D&T and doing quite fine anyway).

So no, I didn't miss a 9th fetch. I'm actually thinking more and more about replacing the 8th I should admit.

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We are playing almost the same mana base but IMHO you should not cut another fetch for a 2nd Pendelhaven (if it s what you re thinking about) because it would weaken you more than what a second Pendel could bring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

I never tried this combination, but it seems pretty bad to me: your 3 potential targets can do only one thing: kill the opponent. And they only can do it if you have a proper board presence.

Ooze, WRP and Regal have a really different aim, they help you establishing board domination.

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If I wanted to dominate the board, I would have chosen Death and Taxes. I want to kill my opponent at 2nd/3rd/4th turn - the faster, the better.
I have Ruric in my sideboard, I choose it when I play against combo, sometimes I play WRP instead of Shaman of the Pack when I know, that there is a lot of Delvers in the metagame.

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Originally Posted by EEk1TwEEk

If I wanted to dominate the board, I would have chosen Death and Taxes. I want to kill my opponent at 2nd/3rd/4th turn - the faster, the better.
I have Ruric in my sideboard, I choose it when I play against combo, sometimes I play WRP instead of Shaman of the Pack when I know, that there is a lot of Delvers in the metagame.

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Huh. Weird. I play this deck as a midrange-y board control deck with a GOTCHA combo finish if/when the opportunity arises. The T2 Glimpse wins are just gravy on the cake. I actually find playing this deck with a combo-focus can sometimes bite you in the ass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EEk1TwEEk

If I wanted to dominate the board, I would have chosen Death and Taxes. I want to kill my opponent at 2nd/3rd/4th turn - the faster, the better.
I have Ruric in my sideboard, I choose it when I play against combo, sometimes I play WRP instead of Shaman of the Pack when I know, that there is a lot of Delvers in the metagame.

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Well you'll face great deceptions playing Elfball. You re not goldfishing, you have no countermagic to protect a combo...
Games can be very long with Elfball..

I don't think I'd describe this deck as elfball.

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Originally Posted by Adibou1er

Well you'll face great deceptions playing Elfball. You re not goldfishing, you have no countermagic to protect a combo...
Games can be very long with Elfball..

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I know, I am playing this deck for 2-3 years and games can really be long, for sure.
And about goldfishing - I play 4 Nettles and 3 Birchlore rangers - that really helps!

A quick Google translate of dte tournament report

Hi, Postponement of early (it astonished me that I have the courage to make a full tonight). I played Elfball, and ended up winning the tournament of 145 players to take home 4 Jace and 4 tarmo after a long day. Despite the result, I have accumulated a quantity of missplay / impressive tactical errors. At the strategy level I'm quite pleased with myself, but at missplays not. Round 0, 1 missplay: I have not played for a few months (GP Lille), I just had the idea to test a shaman of the pack, had recovered a right out and had withdrawn a choke for. And I've never tested course the deck remained in a corner of my house. And sitting at home, it can not be easy to find (I have not yet reached the level of my parents, who have managed to lose a scaffold in their cellar - they asked me regularly if I had not lent a friend to find him before 3-4 years later). In short, Friday I finished the job really early, I put my hand on my deck easily mustache (TinFins Doomsday by side with the mustache deck I tested it) and I try my elf for a good quarter of an hour . I find it, I check that fetches are there (the misty are the only cards that I might want to play elsewhere). And Saturday so I find myself with a side that was like in Lille with one choke -1 Shaman of The Pack. I had forgotten that I had replaced Lille 4th decay by a second wise. No choke 4th or 4th decay so, I reduce the thorn of amethyst one and I remove the 2nd wise to add 3 cabal therapy (the reign of omnishow being finished, and having lots of therapy because I brought that both decks I wanted to play and qu'étonnament between tinfins Elfball and there is not much in common cards. And the map is justified anyway alone) and I keep the shaman, just to test for true (and because apart from the 4th cabal or a thorn, I have nothing else). The test result? it got me the air of a side of 14 cards

Spoiler

3 decay
3 choke
3 cabal
2 thoughtseize
1 rod
1 needle
1 thorn of amethyst
1 Shaman of the pack

Oh, and the MD, 61 cards, one all possible slots MD (craterhoof, regal, Ruric, packmaster, wise and ooze). Throughout the day, all of them will justify its place MD:



Spoiler

1x Birchlore Rangers
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Heritage Druid
3x Nettle Sentinel
4x Quirion Ranger
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Regal Force
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Wren's Run Packmaster
2x Bayou
Dryad Arbor 2x
2x Forest
4x Gaea's Cradle
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Pendelhaven
1x Taiga
1x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Glimpse of Nature
Green Sun's Zenith 4x
4x Natural Order


Round 1, BUG control, Mihailo
Toss him.
I realize that I'm facing BUG, ​​I am delighted. I pick my Regal Force in full I am typing up to 7 mana, I still tell myself when it justifies its place in the first round over the second craterhoof that seems to make the unanimity among my colleagues glimpseurs.
She take his FoW (pitch Jace). I take quite expensive to blow Disfigure, SCM on difigure + block, etc ... and finally damnation.
And then I make a misplay unforgivable for an elf player. The biggest misplay of the day, this round 1 game 1. I do not even runs with my dryad quirion on table.
I obviously draws a NO to the next round while my opponent was naked. I will lose this game many lap later, leaving my opponent to 2.

First game and huge misplay, I think that contrary to what I thought, it's not elves exactly like the bike (in fact so, but I'm getting a little scared).

2 I will ask a packmaster, it will make the game alone.
The 3 + NO on Ruric ooze.

Round 2, Michael and D & T
A very nice guy, not ideal for him to take Elfball. He will end his 13th win and qualifying for the next day.
It starts with plain and MoR, I tell myself that even if I play like a dog, the god of pairing is squarely on my side (that, that will change soon).
T2 jitte he asks, I'll have both symbiote and quirion + + elf dryad, so it poses thalia just to be able to attack with an equipped Prog. I will ask a packmaster ==> win. To finish with a flourish, cradle craterhoof the final round (it was optional).

G2 mull it to 5. I would travel around glimpse of I finish with enough to win 15 times on table (craddle, 2 heritage, DRS symbiote / visio, a beast if my 6th ouvenirs are good). It raises the new flying Thalia, I'm not blunder (in fact I had never seen the card, I have not played since its release, but I knew there was a new rider suffused with flying more) . I have a hand with everything, it is full tap, I have lots of animals. I decide to do a GSZ 8 (by announcing to 8) and will look craterhoof the pose. My opponent stopped me, I paid only 9 mana. Second beautiful missplay. Fortunately I announced to 8. I wonder if reveins backwards, my opponent says I have cast the spell but I can do it in less. I say ok, I want to do it 3 to make wise break and play cannoniste NO. In fact we had misunderstood my opponent meant fetch a beast within mana, but still pay 9. Here I am less in agreement, called the judges, who will make a complete rewind.
So, NO-hoof live without frills, without GSZ box. And a warning.

And I say thin, I'm at 2/0 but making big missplay against two excellent MUs, it bodes ill for more ...
And then I would write tomorrow. In spoiler, large misplays less (though still remain two significant) but many significantly worse MUs.

it's ugly. I can see that Google translate has improved, but it is still really ugly. I can make a short version of the report in English, it will be better than that:

Round 1: BUG control
First game, Regal justify its place in the deck: I draw it with only 7 manas available, he have to force it. My elves die under removal one after another, disfigure, SCM on disfigure, etc..
I will lose this game 1 because I'm rusty and stupid and made the worst mistake an elf player can do, not returning my arbor with quirion in response to a damnation.
He play is, I said ok and looked at my board to put the creatures in the grave, and stared horrified.
The good point is that it will help me focuses later on.
G2, WRP takes it home.
G3, Ruric & Ooze.

Round 2: D&T
It's D&T, that's almost sums it up. First game win throught an early WRP, second via glimpse.

Round 3: UG infect.
G1: I mull at 5, die fast.
G2, early NO on Ruric
G3, needle on nexus T1 (her first turn was nexus), Thorn of amethyst on turn 2, random creatures T3 to win via choke on T4.

Round 4: RGb lands.
Terrible match.
G1, he started, put grove + mox, entomb P Fire, recover it. Soon after there will be tabernacle. I struggle during maybe 12 turns thanks to ooze before scooping, to see which version he's playing. And it's a terrible one: to the classic awful package of RG lands, he decide to sacrifice some speed to have more control elements, and add cards like smallpox and devastating dreams.
G2, a quick NO into Ruric, while he had the tabernacle + p fire online
G3, he opens with tabernacle, 2nd turn he play urbog and sphere of resistance. I will win this one through ooze in the additional turns. After a really hard fight.

Ronde 5 shardless.
An easy one.
G1 I win, he fow a glimpse to take NO-hoof (first game of the tournament a NO for hoof allow me to win. Despite 4 NOs MD I think I won only maybe two games with that out of 8+3 matches).
G2, I win thanks to a combination of choke, DRS & Ooze. My opponent is whinning because I killed him while being at only one life and he had a strix (his mistake to not have side it out). I had choke, DRS, 2 untappers, a full grave, 2 NO + GSZ +WRP in hand. It never was as close as he thought.

Ronde 6 miracle UWR.
G1 I thought I would have him, as he have no hand, no SDT, and I have Ruric. Unfortunately, he topdecks terminus. Then monastery mentor & SFM.
G2 I thought I would have him again, with a needle on top (CB on his side), no hand again, WS+DRS on my side + a good hand. I play a DRS to check the top (I really want to play the visionary), he blind reveals Wear//Tear. What???? I guess it's the only card in his deck which could have blown me up. It did. Next turn I lose my needle, and will never reover from CB top.

Round 7 miracle UWR.
G1 I take a fast terminus followed by a very fast EtA.
G2 he cb/top, I play Sage, he fow. I'm widely grinning with my 2 decay and choke.
G3, Pendle takes it home.

Round 8, UWR miracle.
ID

1/4, Bant.
G1, I chose to start and T2 Glimpse.
G2, I glimpse T3. He answers with humility. I answer with choke, which will prevent him to play his ee + activation before dying.

1/2 UWR miracle (the one which bested me earlier)
G1 I win. Do not remember exactly.
G2 I lose because I'm dumb. With Rod versus jitte on the table, I draw a needle. I decide to play safe against wear/tear, play needle and name SDT. Then wear/Tear and death.
G3, choke helped.

Finale UWR miracle
Lost G1 because I stupidly played a NO Ruric into SCM/StP
Won G2 mainly thanks to choke and ooze, after a very long time facing few angels (that he kept as blockers), CB ,...
At one point I play NO into Symbiote, as WRP, hoof, ooze, sage,... are all exiled.
G3 kill T2 with quirion ranger. (death match :) )


That's it. 4 tarmo and 4 Jace (mindscultor) to take home, and a good long day of playing magic. My brain is melted, but it was worth it, and I met plenty of very nice people.

If you have any comments (even and especially on the language, as the goal of this post is to do a better job than google translate, and I really need to improve my English writing skills), feel free!

Globally, I won very few games by comboing out. Maybe one fifth of the games. The other I grinded them out. I often finished games with a couple of NO in hand. I didn't often cast the card, I always preferred to keep it in hand.

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Originally Posted by Lord_of_Rivendell

I don't think I'd describe this deck as elfball.

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Sorry bout that, we still call it this way in France (at least in Paris), most of the time. ;)

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Originally Posted by danyul

Huh. Weird. I play this deck as a midrange-y board control deck with a GOTCHA combo finish if/when the opportunity arises. The T2 Glimpse wins are just gravy on the cake. I actually find playing this deck with a combo-focus can sometimes bite you in the ass.

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Same. Elves occupies the same metagame slot as Jund, Shardless and Nic Fit - a fair deck that eats other fair decks (and in Nic Fit's case, eats fair decks made to eat other fair decks - Elves and NicFit are the apex predators of the midrange spectrum). It can step foot into the combo space but is kind of subpar as a pure combo deck - the glass cannon decks are faster, TES and Reanimator are faster and incorporate disruption, and ANT + Show and Derp decks are just as fast and incorporate disruption.

Elves is the only Combo-control-aggro-prison deck of the format (or was. During the DTT era I enjoyed to play a bit prison with 3 thorn + 4 choke. now it's gone).

It isn't a very good deck in neither of these roles. (aggro with bunch of 1/1, control without counters, prison with few pieces, slow combo without disruption).

If you always want to play the combo role, play storm, it's much more fun for the combo part.

Elfball is a good deck if what you like is to switch gears.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

it's ugly. I can see that Google translate has improved, but it is still really ugly. I can make a short version of the report in English, it will be better than that:

Round 1: BUG control
First game, Regal justify its place in the deck: I draw it with only 7 manas available, he have to force it. My elves die under removal one after another, disfigure, SCM on disfigure, etc..
I will lose this game 1 because I'm rusty and stupid and made the worst mistake an elf player can do, not returning my arbor with quirion in response to a damnation.
He play is, I said ok and looked at my board to put the creatures in the grave, and stared horrified.
The good point is that it will help me focuses later on.
G2, WRP takes it home.
G3, Ruric & Ooze.

Round 2: D&T
It's D&T, that's almost sums it up. First game win throught an early WRP, second via glimpse.

Round 3: UG infect.
G1: I mull at 5, die fast.
G2, early NO on Ruric
G3, needle on nexus T1 (her first turn was nexus), Thorn of amethyst on turn 2, random creatures T3 to win via choke on T4.

Round 4: RGb lands.
Terrible match.
G1, he started, put grove + mox, entomb P Fire, recover it. Soon after there will be tabernacle. I struggle during maybe 12 turns thanks to ooze before scooping, to see which version he's playing. And it's a terrible one: to the classic awful package of RG lands, he decide to sacrifice some speed to have more control elements, and add cards like smallpox and devastating dreams.
G2, a quick NO into Ruric, while he had the tabernacle + p fire online
G3, he opens with tabernacle, 2nd turn he play urbog and sphere of resistance. I will win this one through ooze in the additional turns. After a really hard fight.

Ronde 5 shardless.
An easy one.
G1 I win, he fow a glimpse to take NO-hoof (first game of the tournament a NO for hoof allow me to win. Despite 4 NOs MD I think I won only maybe two games with that out of 8+3 matches).
G2, I win thanks to a combination of choke, DRS & Ooze. My opponent is whinning because I killed him while being at only one life and he had a strix (his mistake to not have side it out). I had choke, DRS, 2 untappers, a full grave, 2 NO + GSZ +WRP in hand. It never was as close as he thought.

Ronde 6 miracle UWR.
G1 I thought I would have him, as he have no hand, no SDT, and I have Ruric. Unfortunately, he topdecks terminus. Then monastery mentor & SFM.
G2 I thought I would have him again, with a needle on top (CB on his side), no hand again, WS+DRS on my side + a good hand. I play a DRS to check the top (I really want to play the visionary), he blind reveals Wear//Tear. What???? I guess it's the only card in his deck which could have blown me up. It did. Next turn I lose my needle, and will never reover from CB top.

Round 7 miracle UWR.
G1 I take a fast terminus followed by a very fast EtA.
G2 he cb/top, I play Sage, he fow. I'm widely grinning with my 2 decay and choke.
G3, Pendle takes it home.

Round 8, UWR miracle.
ID

1/4, Bant.
G1, I chose to start and T2 Glimpse.
G2, I glimpse T3. He answers with humility. I answer with choke, which will prevent him to play his ee + activation before dying.

1/2 UWR miracle (the one which bested me earlier)
G1 I win. Do not remember exactly.
G2 I lose because I'm dumb. With Rod versus jitte on the table, I draw a needle. I decide to play safe against wear/tear, play needle and name SDT. Then wear/Tear and death.
G3, choke helped.

Finale UWR miracle
Lost G1 because I stupidly played a NO Ruric into SCM/StP
Won G2 mainly thanks to choke and ooze, after a very long time facing few angels (that he kept as blockers), CB ,...
At one point I play NO into Symbiote, as WRP, hoof, ooze, sage,... are all exiled.
G3 kill T2 with quirion ranger. (death match :) )


That's it. 4 tarmo and 4 Jace (mindscultor) to take home, and a good long day of playing magic. My brain is melted, but it was worth it, and I met plenty of very nice people.

If you have any comments (even and especially on the language, as the goal of this post is to do a better job than google translate, and I really need to improve my English writing skills), feel free!

Globally, I won very few games by comboing out. Maybe one fifth of the games. The other I grinded them out. I often finished games with a couple of NO in hand. I didn't often cast the card, I always preferred to keep it in hand.

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Thank you very much & congratulations on your result
btw, u used regal force only once and still lost that match )))

dte: Gratz! Nice run (and also nice price pool) - you faced a lot of miracle and it seems you done it well enough.

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As a result of my drain-elves experiments i tried 1 Dwynen's Elite in my more common testbuild with 3 Natural Order (and 1 WRP). So far the Elite worked well enough: 3 Power with a lot of upside paired with cradle, symbiote, NO, hoof, therapy etc. - it's also good that you can now try a smallish zenith for 2 elf bodies to feed heritage.

Dwynen's elite really looks like a card worth looking at as a tutorable one-of.
I would like to test it one day (but I have already quite a few slots to try). Let us know about it.

For the regal, if I didn't punted this stupidly it would have won me the match, as my opponent Fowed it and followed with a damnation. I should have been able to NO > Ruric then.
With hoof instead, I would have lost even without my misplay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Elves is the only Combo-control-aggro-prison deck of the format (or was. During the DTT era I enjoyed to play a bit prison with 3 thorn + 4 choke. now it's gone).
Elfball is a good deck if what you like is to switch gears.

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I cannot agree with you. Elves is a critical mass combo deck that used to kill the opponent with storm mechanic and later NO behemoth. Well if you SB-ed 3 thorn + 4 choke you would be the ultimate "blue deck prisoner", but what's the point in it?

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Same. Elves occupies the same metagame slot as Jund, Shardless and Nic Fit - a fair deck that eats other fair decks (and in Nic Fit's case, eats fair decks made to eat other fair decks - Elves and NicFit are the apex predators of the midrange spectrum).

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How can a deck be called "fair" and/or "midrange" if you can make turn-2-kill with it? I have chosen Elves because it is a skill-intensive deck that can kill the opponent even playing over the hate like bolts and FoW's, unlike ANT, which is faster but actually very dumb deck (imho) - ritual-ritual-LED-tutor, in response sacrifice LED-PIF-ritual-ritual-ritual-Ad Nauseum-Tendrils. Mindbreak trap into Tutor - oops, gg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EEk1TwEEk

I cannot agree with you. Elves is a critical mass combo deck that used to kill the opponent with storm mechanic and later NO behemoth. Well if you SB-ed 3 thorn + 4 choke you would be the ultimate "blue deck prisoner", but what's the point in it?

How can a deck be called "fair" and/or "midrange" if you can make turn-2-kill with it? I have chosen Elves because it is askill-intensive deck that can kill the opponent even playing over the hate like bolts and FoW's, unlike ANT, which is faster but actually very dumb deck (imho) - ritual-ritual-LED-tutor, in response sacrifice LED-PIF-ritual-ritual-ritual-Ad Nauseum-Tendrils. Mindbreak trap into Tutor - oops, gg.

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Elves is much better at board control than it is at comboing. What I mean when I say fair deck is the deck's positioning in the metagame. Obviously Elves has the potential to act as a pseudo Storm/Tinker combo deck that just kills you. But when you consider it, what is Elves excellent at? It's not at being Storm. Elves is, depending on build, okay to good at being Storm, but not truly excellent at it. It's also an okay weenie aggro deck with some reach in a pinch. But what Elves is truly excellent at is being Shardless, grinding people out and just plain drowning them in cards.

Also, regardless of any of that, Elves' place in the metagame is largely the same as Jund/Shardless/Nic Fit - they munch fair decks for breakfast but tend to lose to combo.

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Originally Posted by EEk1TwEEk

I How can a deck be called "fair" and/or "midrange" if you can make turn-2-kill with it? I have chosen Elves because it is a skill-intensive deck that can kill the opponent even playing over the hate like bolts and FoW's, unlike ANT, which is faster but actually very dumb deck (imho) - ritual-ritual-LED-tutor, in response sacrifice LED-PIF-ritual-ritual-ritual-Ad Nauseum-Tendrils. Mindbreak trap into Tutor - oops, gg.

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I would stop taking idiots playing a deck as reference or make points based on ignorance. You discredit yourself

Seems that Julian lost the final of the big (62 Players) mkm prague sideevent (trial) vs Shardless.

I am happy to see his Sideboard is very close to the current one i use (with NO Main :tongue:)

5 discard, 2 extraction, 2 Choke, 2 needle, 1 Ooze, 2 Decay 1 kgrip (i play the 3rd Decay here)

Hope Elves do well at the Mainevent today! :smile:

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Originally Posted by EEk1TwEEk

How can a deck be called "fair" and/or "midrange" if you can make turn-2-kill with it? I have chosen Elves because it is a skill-intensive deck that can kill the opponent even playing over the hate like bolts and FoW's, unlike ANT, which is faster but actually very dumb deck (imho) - ritual-ritual-LED-tutor, in response sacrifice LED-PIF-ritual-ritual-ritual-Ad Nauseum-Tendrils. Mindbreak trap into Tutor - oops, gg.

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Playtest UBx storm. These are decks which are not afraid of FoW at all. And FoW is less effective against them than it is against elves if your goal is to kill on Turn2/3.
They play 4 GP + around 7 discards usually. They tend to have prefect information (minus the three cards on top of their opponent library) before comboing out.
Not always, but often.
And you have to think well. Not to execute your combo when you have DR/DR/LED/tutor, but to get to this position. Any deck which play 4 cabal therapies cannot be call "very dumb".

Try it, it will help you understand what is a combo deck and why elves is not that great as a combo deck. If it is what you like, you may end up finding a deck which suits you more than the little green creatures.

The older version if the deck (Crop Rotation days) was faster, ran less lands and was more in on going off turn 2/3. The modern version runs about 5 extra lands and is less bent on that early finish. You could have claimed once this was a combo deck first, but that is not really true anymore.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

The older version if the deck (Crop Rotation days) was faster, ran less lands and was more in on going off turn 2/3. The modern version runs about 5 extra lands and is less bent on that early finish. You could have claimed once this was a combo deck first, but that is not really true anymore.

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The only versions of modern Elves you can make that combo deck first claim are the ultra streamlined builds Ross and Andrew Jessup typically play.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

The only versions of modern Elves you can make that combo deck first claim are the ultra streamlined builds Ross and Andrew Jessup typically play.

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Yeah, the ones that REALLY fold to counters and still less reliable than Belcher just with the questionable "upside" that you are left with a few pionts of power on the table if your opponent has a counter

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

Seems that Julian lost the final of the big (62 Players) mkm prague sideevent (trial) vs Shardless.

I am happy to see his Sideboard is very close to the current one i use (with NO Main :tongue:)

5 discard, 2 extraction, 2 Choke, 2 needle, 1 Ooze, 2 Decay 1 kgrip (i play the 3rd Decay here)

Hope Elves do well at the Mainevent today! :smile:

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Added the 3rd Decay over Grip for the Main Event, where I went 6-2 for 14th out of ~210. Had some tough luck with pairings but still managed to beat 2x ANT and TinFins, as well as Shardless, UWr Blade and Desthblade. Lost to Dredge and Sneak Show who needed (and drew!!) runner, runner, runner when I had the game pretty much won. That's Magic. Full Report and stream either on Monday or Wednesday.

http://i1.wp.com/itsjulian.com/wp-co...size=714%2C364

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Did you know that in Back to the Future II, Marty McFly travels to the 21st October 2015? That is this Wednesday! I’m already super excited for my new hoverboard and all the other awesome toys we are about to get! But did you know also that one of the most relevant parts of the entire series was actually omitted from the final cut?

• Thursday – Arrival in Prague
• Friday – Big Legacy Trial
• Saturday – Legacy Main Event
• Sunday – Duel Commander
• Epilogue – Payouts in Prague

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Check out my article on http://itsjulian.com/?p=1792

Great report Julian! A pleasure to read. You make me wanna step up my Cabal Therapy game. And great tips vs Shardless. I've considered them a bye for so long that I forgot they had access to all these new cards. That's something to watch for!

http://www.twitch.tv/cardkingdom/v/21523933

Hey guys. I battled at my weekly Legacy event last Monday where we streamed the 66 player event! That’s the most ever for one of Card Kingdom’s Legacy weeklies. I’ve watched these games a few times in attempts to catch my own mistakes. But then I figured yall might wanna see what my thought process was so I might as well type something up!

This is Round 3 and my opponent is playing what looks to be a traditional EsperBlade list. I win the roll. The actual match begins around the 22 minute mark. However you can rewind to the 18:30 mark if you wanna hear my buddies talk me up and make me sound cool.

Game One:
I mulled to six and thought that this hand was keepable because it had QRanger into Visionary. But then I drew a Library and played that instead. This hand only had one land but the QRanger made errythang a-okay! I figured playing the Library over the Visionary here would be better in the long game. Easy decision because Blade decks can be very grindy.

On my third turn, I played Cradle, DRS, QRanger. I should have instead gone QRanger, bounce forest, DRS. This preserves my Cradle. I used it unnecessarily because I really cared about resolving the DRS so I cast it first. I instead should have sequenced that better. Lesson: just because you really want to resolve something, that doesn't mean you should cast it ASAP. My Cradle gets wasted and I get punished. Also, I did not know my opponent had a Wasteland on the board when I dropped my Cradle. There was some glare on his side of the table. Regardless, there’s no reason to offer up a free Cradle when you know your opponent could always just topdeck a Wasteland and blow you out. Sloppy.

Now that I don’t have that Cradle anymore, I spend the rest of the game slightly starved on mana. I have a Symbiote holding off equipment but it’s easy to dismantle with a Swords to Plowshares. So I hold the GSZ in my hand in order to summon a RecSage when I need it. I also used Sylvan Library very conservatively in these games, only drawing cards when I really needed them. This led to some inefficiency since I could have easily been more aggressive with the life payments. My opponent isn’t playing Lightning Bolt. What could happen?

I then cast Glimpse but I forgot that my DRS was nearly out of food in the yard. So again, this mana constraint came back to bite me and I was unable to turn that Glimpse into a truly backbreaking turn. If I had wanted to play around Snap-Swords, I could have declined to cast that Nettle Sentinel in order to have black mana up for the DRS counteractivation. However, I did not see that line at all. Slightly sloppy since it’s a very obvious interaction in hindsight.

I Library into Cradle, BRanger, and GSZ. I can draw the 3rd card with my Visionary so there’s no reason to really pay the life, I figured. I just wanted to GSZ into RecSage with enough mana left over to GSZ into Symbiote, bounce RecSage, and cast it again to kill both equipment in the same turn. After I cast the Visionary, I should have tapped Nettle + the new Visionary (for Birchlore mana) in order to gain maximum Nettle untaps before I cast this GSZ chain. However I was a little too eager to start killing equipment so I forgot to tap this way. Then, as I began to count my mana for the next GSZ, I realized I had forgotten an opportunity to get another G mana. I kind of kicked myself there. The rest of the turn is spent trying to be very exact with my mana + untaps in order generate enough mana to GSZ, Symbiote, bounce, RecSage. But my opponent sees the interaction as well and scoops.

Game 2:
I board in 1 Pithing Needle, 4 Abrupt Decay, and 1 Krosan Grip
I board out (I think?) 1 NO, 2 Glimpse, 1 Heritage, 1 Nettle, 1 Quirion/1 Land?

My opening hand has Needle, Decay, and nothing else exciting. This hand doesn’t do anything. Ship it. My next hand has Fetch, Cradle, QRanger, and action. I fetch-grab a Bayou to keep my topdeck Decays live. But I do this at the risk of losing to STP-Wasteland from my opponent. I’m aware of this too because I’ve lost to that play before. So when he Swords’ my QRanger, I have to decide if I think his line is to Waste me or if he’s just being aggressive with STP. If I think he’s gonna waste me, then I should bounce Bayou in response so I don’t just lose the game - since my only other land is Cradle. I felt it was a slight gamble but I didn’t bounce and my opponent didn’t Waste me. My opponent also previously STP’d a T1 QRanger so I he’s displayed a willingness to STP suboptimal creatures. I took a relatively safe gamble.

On this T2, I correctly bounce to use the Bayou twice instead of just dropping the Cradle - the mistake I made in Game 1. I have a Visionary and GSZ in hand so I start trying to do BFF math. I figured that I needed to play the Cradle here (instead of just playing Bayou) since just playing a regular land into Visionary into GSZ-Symbiote will only leave me with G floating. If I draw anything exciting off that Visionary, then I’ll want more mana available after this sequence. The line I took left me with GG left after the sequence - enough to play Sylvan Library. I could also have spent that GG by bouncing Visionary and replaying it. However, I always want to cast Library as early as possible. I end the turn by bouncing my Visionary in order to untap another elf for blocking duties. That way I have an untapped Elf to bounce with Symbiote.

One of the commentary dudes thought I bounced because I was predicting the Supreme Verdict. But really I was just trying to have an untapped blocker. You should probably always end a BFF turn with your Visionary in your hand, assuming you have other blockers of course. Maybe? Because that way you free up your Symbiote to always be able to bounce another target, since his best friend is already safely hidden away from removal. However, I should have assumed T4 meant Supreme Verdict was online. And I should have played around it for that reason instead of just accidentally playing around it like a lucksack.

In response to Verdict, I bounced my QRanger because it operates better off of a low land base and I only had two lands in play. If I don’t draw any more, or don’t draw any mana maker dudes, then a Heritage Druid really sucks here. At least a QRanger helps me cheat on mana a little. So I figured the Druid wasn’t as valuable. However, I should also have realized that I have a Library in play and a deck full of 1CMC dudes. I could have just played the odds and hoped to draw into any other Elf, since I had Visionary in hand and another land. That would allow me a super explosive turn, especially because my Library showed me a Nettle Sentinel. That play was a mistake because I was taking the conservative line when I had the more powerful draw engine. I should have leveraged that into a more aggressive line of thinking/line of play. If I had valued the Druid over the QRanger, I could have ended that turn with Visionary, Druid, and Nettle -> GSZ-Symbiote, bounce Visionary, recast Visionary, pass. That way I can start gaining card advantage, block his Jitte, and still have Decay in hand in case things get ugly. That was a calculation error. I should have played the odds instead of being a little coward!

Now that a Canonist has entered the battle, I need to reassign this GSZ for RecSage duty. Here I start trying to get a little value. I want to make him suit up and attack into my tapped Nettle so I can cast Decay, untap Nettle, Decay a thing, and Nettle-kill a thing. I had to cast that new QRanger first in order to end the turn with a tapped Nettle post-combat. I’m not sure if this is a super obvious bait, especially since I have Bayou + Cradle up, but it’s a play that I like to try and make whenever it presents itself. It feels flashy to me but I don’t play Blue spells so this is the closest I can get, okay!

On my next turn, (if I had a Heritage Druid) I could have just tapped 3 elves for GGG, tapped Cradle for GGGG, then tap both Bayous to GSZ-Hoof-Win. Instead, I have this damn QRanger! Library shows me Symbiote and Glimpse. I’m not sure why I drew an extra card off of Library, but if I was playing aggressively I should be drawing extra cards anyway. My next Library shows me a NO. This is game since my opponent only has 1 card in hand. But I play very conservatively so I Glimpse to bait, cast Symbiote in case NO is countered, and then finally fetch-Arbor-sac into NO-Hoof. This way I get maximum value if my opponent disrupts any part of this sequence. However, it may be more prudent to just slam the NO and kill my opponent if I truly think he has a 0% chance to stop the NO. Perhaps I’m too polite, because I’m always acutely aware that my conservative play can sometimes be mistaken for slow-rolling. But I just want to be safe in case my finishing blow gets countered and I’m forced to rebuild again.

Anyway that’s the match. And that’s my thought process. I hope that was helpful or interesting to somebody out there. I’m not sure if I’m rambling at this point. Lemme know your thoughts.

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Originally Posted by danyul

http://www.twitch.tv/cardkingdom/v/21523933
Anyway that’s the match. And that’s my thought process. I hope that was helpful or interesting to somebody out there. I’m not sure if I’m rambling at this point. Lemme know your thoughts.

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Definitely an interesting read, thank you!

So, here are some comments where I disagree with you:


"I also used Sylvan Library very conservatively in these games, only drawing cards when I really needed them. This led to some inefficiency since I could have easily been more aggressive with the life payments. My opponent isn’t playing Lightning Bolt. What could happen?"

I do not see any reason to play library aggressively.
As long as you have a fetch/GSZ to shuffle, and that you will shuffle before casting Glimpse or visionary, no need to draw cards that are not clearly helpful, as in G1 he probably cannot get rid of library anyway. So preserving your life total will allow you to draw when you'll need it.



"I board in 1 Pithing Needle, 4 Abrupt Decay, and 1 Krosan Grip
I board out (I think?) 1 NO, 2 Glimpse, 1 Heritage, 1 Nettle, 1 Quirion/1 Land?"

Why boarding out 2 glimpse? I do not see your list, but glimpse is way better than NO in this MU, where there is StP/Karakas vs Ruric, often confinement priest and/or cage, and where the mass removal of choice is not terminus, but verdict. I love quirion too, especially vs jitte, so I would probably have boarded out 2 cradle and 2 NO, as well as a NO target (to keep just 1 hoof post side), and heritage / Nettle.



"My opening hand has Needle, Decay, and nothing else exciting. This hand doesn’t do anything. Ship it. My next hand has Fetch, Cradle, QRanger, and action. I fetch-grab a Bayou to keep my topdeck Decays live."

I do not know what was in the "nothing else", but decay and needle means they cannot have anything exciting either. So I may have kept the first hand.
And I wouldn't have fetch grab bayou vs wasteland deck: you have 4 DRS, 1/2 birchlore, 7-8 fetchs, 2 bayous, 4 GSZ, 1 library to draw into them, so around 1/3 of your deck makes decay (that you haven't draw yet) alive. Additionally, two of your decay does not requires black (K Grip and Rec Sage).
While StP + waste and you're just probably dead.



" I could also have spent that GG by bouncing Visionary and replaying it. However, I always want to cast Library as early as possible."

I would have play visionary, for CA +1. You will always be able to cast library next turn, and you hide some information: he thinks he have to fight against BFF, but there is BFF + sylvan. And with your line of play, he knows it.



If you disagree with one of these, please let me know. And write again this kind of game report, it is really interesting!
How did the tournament go otherwise?

I find it very interesting to watch other Elves players on video. Personally, the few time some of my games have been recorded & watched by others / myself, it always highlighted some stuff I didn't think about, so it's a good experience. What I write below is my own thought process given the board & your hand. I am not saying that I am describing the 100% correct plays, I have no clue about this, I am just happy to give my approach & hopefully be constructive.

Game 1 :
On your 2nd turn, I would cast Sylvan Library with Forest + Gaea's Cradle. On the play, I think you should not be too concerned about exposing a Cradle turn 2, esp with Sylvan Library, which give you a high chance to access another land next turn.

Turn n°4, I would take 4 with Sylvan (draw Symbiote & Nettle). Float 2 with Forest + DrS, untap DrS with Quirion, play Forest again, cast GsZ->Heritage (Pierce proof). Cast Nettle with Forest. Tap Nettle + Heritage + Quirion (GGG), play Visionary (G), if Visionary didn't draw into a 1ccm elf, tap DrS + Visionary + Nettle (GGGG), cast Symbiote (GGG). Bounce Visionary untapping DrS, cast Visionary again (G). Depending on your 2 cards draw, this may be eot. But with this board position, you are really threatening to hardcast Craterhoof next turn.

Turn 5, like you said only 1 land in graveyards, so I would not be shy to GsZ-> Heritage first, then Glimpse & see where it goes (esp since at allows you to shuffle your 2nd Craterhoof sitting on the top of your library (know with Sylvan)).

T6 I think you can present lethal : pay 4 life to draw Birchlore + Cradle with GsZ. Non summoning sick creatures on board : DrS, Quirion, Nettle. Forest+Bayou pay for GsZ->Heritage. Tap Heritage + Nettle + Quirion (GGG). Play Birchlore (GG). Tap Cradle (7G). Birchlore + Nettle (8G). Hardcast Craterhoof (+6/+6). Untap Quirion with its own ability. Attack with DrS, Quirion, Nettle & Hoof for 4*6+1+1+2+5 = 33 trample dmg, opp (full tap) is at 22 life, + 7 thoughness & 4 lifelink = 33 virtual life : GG.

Random thoughts on Dan's match without reading his comments; typed inton a Notepad file while bored at work:

Pregame: I love the batman shart and the power handcuffs put on you many millennia ago to limit your powerful Elf magic
Game1
Turn1: Opponent has Windswepth Heath, shiiiit it's the mirror -_-;;;
Turn2: Against a potential fair deck (Windswept Heath) I would want to get out some more Elves instead of Sylvan Library to start abusing Cradle ASAP; but Library is fine as well
Turn4: Are we wever gonna lose this? We're so far ahead, I love it. (plz don't lose this, Lieutenant Daaaaan!!)
Turn5: Nom Nom Value Nom Nom; opponent busy spreading germs; didn't watch closely but would have probably wanted to GSZ for Dryad for shuffle+double Jitte protection
Turn6.1: We're falling behind on the value, Dan! Plz add more valüüüüe!
Turn6.2: lol, opponent so out of reasonable cards, I love it. Yeeeeeees, Llanowar prevails!
Sideboarding: Needs more 15 in, 15 out! Opponent also not taking out Stoneforges and Brainstorm as expected - he's playing right into Dan's hands!

Game2
Turn1: opponent drawing 8 cards like a boss; nevermind, he's still sideboarding
Dan flexing his hands like a boss. I'd be fucking scared of facing this beast of an Elf commander.
Real Turn1: Just realized the last time I played against a guy named "Klinger", he sidedboarded on the toilet to add 4 more cards to it. #DidntHelpHim
Turn2: "I don't know if I'd kill that" - famous last words much, commentator?
Turn3: Dan Y U Draw No Cabal Therapy here??? #L2P; Sylvan Library is perfect though! I still feel very uneasy about that turn1 Bayou instead of Basic Forest though
Turn4: You're at 19. opponent has no clock. Draw all 3 to see eve better cards next time.
Turn5: This is one of my FAVOURITE moves in Elves.
Turn6.1: 4th "activation" of Library; opponents hardly ever survive more than 2, Dan being very polite with the opponent's feelings
Turn6.2: Opponent getting #REEEEEEEKT. They should print an Elf that allows you to steal your opponent's cards when he's screwed on all ends; "steal" as in outside-the-game mechanic, kind of like one-sided ante.
Turn7: FINISH HIM, BATMAN!

Dan took him on a trip to #LlanoWAR
#EzyGameEzyLife #TeamDan

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Originally Posted by dte

Definitely an interesting read, thank you!

So, here are some comments where I disagree with you:

"I also used Sylvan Library very conservatively in these games, only drawing cards when I really needed them. This led to some inefficiency since I could have easily been more aggressive with the life payments. My opponent isn’t playing Lightning Bolt. What could happen?"

I do not see any reason to play library aggressively.
As long as you have a fetch/GSZ to shuffle, and that you will shuffle before casting Glimpse or visionary, no need to draw cards that are not clearly helpful, as in G1 he probably cannot get rid of library anyway. So preserving your life total will allow you to draw when you'll need it.

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My pleasure, dude. I haven't been playing with Library very long so I was still a bit new to how exactly it should be played. And how matchups change that. After listening to the commentary, I thought perhaps I should have paid some extra life just to draw into some fresh cards. But you're right. Using a shuffle effect would accomplish the same thing without burning extra life. Thanks for the input. I'll have to find the sweet spot for how to play it in the future.

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Originally Posted by dte

"I board in 1 Pithing Needle, 4 Abrupt Decay, and 1 Krosan Grip
I board out (I think?) 1 NO, 2 Glimpse, 1 Heritage, 1 Nettle, 1 Quirion/1 Land?"

Why boarding out 2 glimpse? I do not see your list, but glimpse is way better than NO in this MU, where there is StP/Karakas vs Ruric, often confinement priest and/or cage, and where the mass removal of choice is not terminus, but verdict. I love quirion too, especially vs jitte, so I would probably have boarded out 2 cradle and 2 NO, as well as a NO target (to keep just 1 hoof post side), and heritage / Nettle.

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My list is fairly standard with 2 Hoof main + 1 Wren's Run Packmaster. I take out 2 Glimpse simply because I wanted to maintain the spell-creature ratio and something had to come out. I not sure which (NO or Glimpse) was better in this matchup so I wanted to leave in a 2/2 split postboard. I have Decay/Grip for Priest/Cage, but TBH I didn't even think of those while boarding. I just bring in these cards by reflex against Stoneblade. I'm pretty sure I cut a Quirion because I think Stoneblade only plays 2 Wasteland these days. I did not think about boarding out 1 Hoof but that seems like a fine idea in hindsight. I've never actually boarded out Cradles. What's the reasoning there?

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Originally Posted by dte

"My opening hand has Needle, Decay, and nothing else exciting. This hand doesn’t do anything. Ship it. My next hand has Fetch, Cradle, QRanger, and action. I fetch-grab a Bayou to keep my topdeck Decays live."

I do not know what was in the "nothing else", but decay and needle means they cannot have anything exciting either. So I may have kept the first hand.
And I wouldn't have fetch grab bayou vs wasteland deck: you have 4 DRS, 1/2 birchlore, 7-8 fetchs, 2 bayous, 4 GSZ, 1 library to draw into them, so around 1/3 of your deck makes decay (that you haven't draw yet) alive. Additionally, two of your decay does not requires black (K Grip and Rec Sage).
While StP + waste and you're just probably dead.

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The rest of the hand was Nettle, Visionary, lands. I guess if my primary goal is shutting down equipment, then that hand may have been a reasonable keep. And now that you lay it out like that, fetching the Bayou was a really poor choice. I didn't do the math on the many other ways I could get access to black mana. Good call.

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Originally Posted by dte

" I could also have spent that GG by bouncing Visionary and replaying it. However, I always want to cast Library as early as possible."

I would have play visionary, for CA +1. You will always be able to cast library next turn, and you hide some information: he thinks he have to fight against BFF, but there is BFF + sylvan. And with your line of play, he knows it.

If you disagree with one of these, please let me know. And write again this kind of game report, it is really interesting!
How did the tournament go otherwise?

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That's a subtle distinction. I'd still play the Library first simply because it lets me filter through the top 3 as soon as possible, and I can always play the Visionary next turn for the +1CA. I'm not sure that hiding information in this case is worth missing out on a Library activation. Oh and I ended up 4-0 for the night!

Thanks for you feedback. You thought of stuff I had never even considered. I'll try to write more reports like this in the future if I can.

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Originally Posted by B4L4

I find it very interesting to watch other Elves players on video. Personally, the few time some of my games have been recorded & watched by others / myself, it always highlighted some stuff I didn't think about, so it's a good experience. What I write below is my own thought process given the board & your hand. I am not saying that I am describing the 100% correct plays, I have no clue about this, I am just happy to give my approach & hopefully be constructive.

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I agree. There are so many lines in this deck. Watching the decisions somebody else makes is always educational, especially when they do something I would never have thought to do.

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Originally Posted by B4L4

Game 1 :
On your 2nd turn, I would cast Sylvan Library with Forest + Gaea's Cradle. On the play, I think you should not be too concerned about exposing a Cradle turn 2, esp with Sylvan Library, which give you a high chance to access another land next turn.

Turn n°4, I would take 4 with Sylvan (draw Symbiote & Nettle). Float 2 with Forest + DrS, untap DrS with Quirion, play Forest again, cast GsZ->Heritage (Pierce proof). Cast Nettle with Forest. Tap Nettle + Heritage + Quirion (GGG), play Visionary (G), if Visionary didn't draw into a 1ccm elf, tap DrS + Visionary + Nettle (GGGG), cast Symbiote (GGG). Bounce Visionary untapping DrS, cast Visionary again (G). Depending on your 2 cards draw, this may be eot. But with this board position, you are really threatening to hardcast Craterhoof next turn.

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Damn! That’s a sexy line. I wish I had seen that.

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Originally Posted by B4L4

Turn 5, like you said only 1 land in graveyards, so I would not be shy to GsZ-> Heritage first, then Glimpse & see where it goes (esp since at allows you to shuffle your 2nd Craterhoof sitting on the top of your library (know with Sylvan)).

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Man, I should have thought about GSZing into Heritage Druid. That would have made it so much easier for me since I was struggling on mana the entire game. I totally didn’t see that. I was too locked in to keeping the GSZ in hand for a RecSage or something. Grabbing a Heritage would have made everything much easier.

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Originally Posted by B4L4

T6 I think you can present lethal : pay 4 life to draw Birchlore + Cradle with GsZ. Non summoning sick creatures on board : DrS, Quirion, Nettle. Forest+Bayou pay for GsZ->Heritage. Tap Heritage + Nettle + Quirion (GGG). Play Birchlore (GG). Tap Cradle (7G). Birchlore + Nettle (8G). Hardcast Craterhoof (+6/+6). Untap Quirion with its own ability. Attack with DrS, Quirion, Nettle & Hoof for 4*6+1+1+2+5 = 33 trample dmg, opp (full tap) is at 22 life, + 7 thoughness & 4 lifelink = 33 virtual life : GG.

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That’s probably...definitely a better line. Haha thanks for your input!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Random thoughts on Dan's match without reading his comments; typed inton a Notepad file while bored at work:

Pregame: I love the batman shart and the power handcuffs put on you many millennia ago to limit your powerful Elf magic

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Hahaha what a nerd!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Game1
Turn1: Opponent has Windswepth Heath, shiiiit it's the mirror -_-;;;
Turn2: Against a potential fair deck (Windswept Heath) I would want to get out some more Elves instead of Sylvan Library to start abusing Cradle ASAP; but Library is fine as well
Turn4: Are we wever gonna lose this? We're so far ahead, I love it. (plz don't lose this, Lieutenant Daaaaan!!)
Turn5: Nom Nom Value Nom Nom; opponent busy spreading germs; didn't watch closely but would have probably wanted to GSZ for Dryad for shuffle+double Jitte protection
Turn6.1: We're falling behind on the value, Dan! Plz add more valüüüüe!
Turn6.2: lol, opponent so out of reasonable cards, I love it. Yeeeeeees, Llanowar prevails!
Sideboarding: Needs more 15 in, 15 out! Opponent also not taking out Stoneforges and Brainstorm as expected - he's playing right into Dan's hands!

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Playing more Elves on T2 makes sense if I wanted to capitalize on the Cradle. But I’m not sure I should have even played the Cradle at all? However, if I had seeded the board with bodies that would definitely have made the Cradle superpowered next turn. Hmm. Good to keep in mind. Also you are right. I should sideboard 15 in, 15 out. I’m just really lazy and never developed that as a habit. But I should!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Game2
Turn1: opponent drawing 8 cards like a boss; nevermind, he's still sideboarding
Dan flexing his hands like a boss. I'd be fucking scared of facing this beast of an Elf commander.
Real Turn1: Just realized the last time I played against a guy named "Klinger", he sidedboarded on the toilet to add 4 more cards to it. #DidntHelpHim
Turn2: "I don't know if I'd kill that" - famous last words much, commentator?
Turn3: Dan Y U Draw No Cabal Therapy here??? #L2P; Sylvan Library is perfect though! I still feel very uneasy about that turn1 Bayou instead of Basic Forest though
Turn4: You're at 19. opponent has no clock. Draw all 3 to see eve better cards next time.
Turn5: This is one of my FAVOURITE moves in Elves.
Turn6.1: 4th "activation" of Library; opponents hardly ever survive more than 2, Dan being very polite with the opponent's feelings
Turn6.2: Opponent getting #REEEEEEEKT. They should print an Elf that allows you to steal your opponent's cards when he's screwed on all ends; "steal" as in outside-the-game mechanic, kind of like one-sided ante.
Turn7: FINISH HIM, BATMAN!

Dan took him on a trip to #LlanoWAR
#EzyGameEzyLife #TeamDan

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T3: Yes that T1 Bayou was very risky. I felt bad about it as soon as my opponent showed me the Swords.

T4: Yeah, perhaps I should have been more aggressive with Library, especially in that position.

T5: I also love this play. It always makes me feel super buff!

Hahaha Julian thanks for your commentary. You should do color commentary over SCG streams. I’d tune in for that anytime!

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Thanks everybody for sharing your thoughts! It's very constructive to walk through a match like this with multiple people giving multiple experienced perspectives. If any of you have other game states you'd want to discuss, or streamed matches we can breakdown, I'd be more than happy to jump in and see if I can offer tips too!

I've really enjoyed this discussion, thanks danyul and others. I love the play-by-play and I feel it's opened up my eyes a bit on the strategery side of things. Only a couple more weeks until GP SeaTac!

Similar note, I've added a 61st card to my main - Wren's Run Packmaster. I was letting my friend practive my deck against Shardless that I had proxied - he is going to an SCG Legacy open this weekend with Elves and I've proxied Shardless up for more practice for the GP. Every single game he was able to get that beastie out and start making baby wolves. Seemed unbeatable, frankly, from a Shardless perspective.