[Deck] 12 Post

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hopo

Has anyone tried and succeeded in playing with only one Eldrazi (obv. Emrakul)? In order to control the awkward 1-of's this is what I've been pondering lately. Of course, it hurts when you have less than Emrakul mana available. In some builds the Ulamog trigger might be redundant, and you most likely already have shaved some number of Show and Tells and don't need so many monsters for those either.

I have only thought of this path and wanted to know if there are any experiences to share regarding this.

---

I've had a corner case where Emrakul was in play, a Miracles opponent survived the annihilation and 15 life. They had just enough permanents to recast the humility that I bounced. The lonely sphagetti monster was then Swords to Plowshares shortly thereafter. With emrakul gone, I rode the 2nd eldrazi to victory. That time it was Kozilek and he was swinging into 1/1 angels on defense. Sometimes looping draw 3 spells and reshuffle triggers is just good enough to get there. Multiple primetimes were drawn, destroyed and reshuffle in that hot mess of a game as well. :smile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maCHOOga

I've had a corner case where Emrakul was in play, a Miracles opponent survived the annihilation and 15 life. They had just enough permanents to recast the humility that I bounced. The lonely sphagetti monster was then Swords to Plowshares shortly thereafter. With emrakul gone, I rode the 2nd eldrazi to victory. That time it was Kozilek and he was swinging into 1/1 angels on defense. Sometimes looping draw 3 spells and reshuffle triggers is just good enough to get there. Multiple primetimes were drawn, destroyed and reshuffle in that hot mess of a game as well. :smile:

---

Keep in mind if an Eldrazi dies with humility in play, it doesn't shuffle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Keep in mind if an Eldrazi dies with humility in play, it doesn't shuffle

---

The rules disagree. From the Rules-forum:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cdr

As Koby said, "leaves the battlefield" or "dies" triggers are a little special since they happen from the source zone - zone-change triggers normally trigger from the destination zone (603.6d).

Interestingly, eldrazi like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn do not have either of the above two triggers - they have a "from anywhere" trigger. Since it's not a battlefield trigger it's not special and triggers from the destination zone, so Emrakul *will* trigger if it dies with Humility in play.

---

That's not true, Rock Lee. The Eldrazi shuffle trigger is a zone change trigger that hinges on the Eldrazi entering the Graveyard from anywhere, depends on the text the card has when it enters the Graveyard and triggers from there. Humility has no effect on the monster anymore at the point when the ability wants to trigger.

In unrelated news, I love the flavor of the Theros gods under humility. The moment they gather a sufficient amount of devotion they become totally powerless.

do y'all find it hard to recover from a glacial chasm? maybe I'm playing it too late, or something. usually by the time i realize i need it I'm at like 6 life, get maybe 1-2 turns out of it. can't stabilize cause i lost a land, and then just die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

That's not true, Rock Lee. The Eldrazi shuffle trigger is a zone change trigger that hinges on the Eldrazi entering the Graveyard from anywhere, depends on the text the card has when it enters the Graveyard and triggers from there. Humility has no effect on the monster anymore at the point when the ability wants to trigger.

In unrelated news, I love the flavor of the Theros gods under humility. The moment they gather a sufficient amount of devotion they become totally powerless.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hopo

The rules disagree. From the Rules-forum:

---

Go Figure. I've been self-diagnosing this incorrectly for years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apple713

do y'all find it hard to recover from a glacial chasm? maybe I'm playing it too late, or something. usually by the time i realize i need it I'm at like 6 life, get maybe 1-2 turns out of it. can't stabilize cause i lost a land, and then just die.

---

Well, 6 is a pretty low count to play chasm, i usually play it when i'm 12-10 lifes. This should give you something like 3-4 turns to recover depending on the amount of lifes you may gain from Glimmerposts. If you have Chasm into play and a Vesuva in hand, remember that it's better to copy it with vesuva once it reaches 2 age counters, because you've basically gained 1 turn. In fact, the next chasm upkeep will drain you for 6, which is the same amount you'll have to pay with your cloned land in a couple of turns.

Just won a 4 round mini-tournament for a Jace with this list.

// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Tundra

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives

Played against U/R delver, Miracles, Affinity, Miracles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Just won a 4 round mini-tournament for a Jace with this list.

// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Tundra

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives

Played against U/R delver, Miracles, Affinity, Miracles.

---

There's only one relevant question: did you resolve that Bane of Progress against the Affinity player?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mockingbird

There's only one relevant question: did you resolve that Bane of Progress against the Affinity player?

---

I had the option to, but didn't. He is absolutely terrified of the card though. :D

My best Banes have been a 18/18 against enchantress, and a 11/11 against Death and Taxes. Usually though its a 4/4 or 5/5 from eidalon/vortex.

Looking for thoughts on what is the best name for this deck when Meddling Mage'ing against ANT/TES. Wondering if naming Ad Nauseam is better than infernal tutor or burning wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Looking for thoughts on what is the best name for this deck when Meddling Mage'ing against ANT/TES. Wondering if naming Ad Nauseam is better than infernal tutor or burning wish.

---

I don't think there's an easy way to tell between the two in the early turns. You'd probably go infernal tutor given they're on an unknown tendrils storm deck, but post board I'd probably name burning wish or ad nauseam against tes. Natural spell chains are always trickier than drawing 20 with ad nauseum, and their warrens plan does absolutely nothing against tabernacle elephant grass. Alternatively, Most Tes lists don't play tendrils in the main, so if you didn't show a reason for them to side it in during g1, naming burning wish is also really strong (note that I don't think this will work against better players).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jesture

I don't think there's an easy way to tell between the two in the early turns. You'd probably go infernal tutor given they're on an unknown tendrils storm deck, but post board I'd probably name burning wish or ad nauseam against tes. Natural spell chains are always trickier than drawing 20 with ad nauseum, and their warrens plan does absolutely nothing against tabernacle elephant grass. Alternatively, Most Tes lists don't play tendrils in the main, so if you didn't show a reason for them to side it in during g1, naming burning wish is also really strong (note that I don't think this will work against better players).

---

there isn't a best answer, the deck is pretty versatile and depends on what they have in their hand. Ideally tutor is what you want to name early but they can also win through past in flames and ad nausem. naming tentrils doesn't help that much because they they still get to use ad nauseous to filter through their deck for the bounce.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Looking for thoughts on what is the best name for this deck when Meddling Mage'ing against ANT/TES. Wondering if naming Ad Nauseam is better than infernal tutor or burning wish.

---

Unless I also had a Chalice on two, I don't think naming Ad Nauseam is right. Some of the people in my group play ANT or used to, and Ad Nauseam is kind of their Plan C or D or whatever when it comes to comboing out. If they draw it, they draw it, but otherwise I'd be much more inclined to name Tutor or Wish. A lot of lists are down to 1 Ad Nauseam, and sometimes it's not even main.

I would name Infernal Tutor, sometimes their list won't even have Burning Wish, but no matter the version there is always an Infernal Tutor and a bunch of cantrips.

So is this still about ant AND tes?

I am firmly of the belief that naming tutor against tes with meddling mage is the wrong play. Lumping these two decks together and then naming a card that's played in both decks is just lazy matchup preparation. If we're talking about ant, I'll be the first to say that it's a much trickier situation given the variety of angles the deck can attack from (also I play tes, not ant). But Rock Lee's question was about both ant and tes. Against tes specifically, I'd much rather name the wish that's played 4 of in the main rather than the 3 of tutor. Burning wish also turns off the line that let's them grab massacre or void snare from sb to answer meddling mage.

Given the prevalence of ant over tes, I'd say naming infernal tutor g1 is probably the safer play. That said, it doesn't look like anyone's playing main deck meddling mages, so you should probably know exactly what deck you're up against by the time you cast mage.

Edited for clarity

Everyone seemed to miss my question. I was asking specifically what are suggested or too greedy names when playing this deck against ant or against tes.

Specifically the fact that if want to goad my opponent into Past in Flames so I can bog blow them out.

What name forces that line of play the most?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Everyone seemed to miss my question. I was asking specifically what are suggested or too greedy names when playing this deck against ant or against tes.

Specifically the fact that if want to goad my opponent into Past in Flames so I can bog blow them out.

What name forces that line of play the most?

---

If you want them to go for PiF, I guess you name Ad Nauseam w/ Meddling mage. This prevents them from drawing their deck and generating enough free storm w/ those cards so they would probably try to PiF you out.
However, isn't Infernal tutor just a better name in general?

I think Tutor, or LED is best. You'll build up your other permission meanwhile. Just knowing its turn 5 and that you have access to a lot of counters will make PiF attractive to them. I can see an argument for AN against TES, but I think attacking the engine is a better plan in general.

I just 4-0 the Legacy daily on MTGO with basically the same as Rock Lee's new list

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ily-2014-12-07

First round was storm, green stomp, solidarity, and then Patriot control. The sideboard is great for the MTGO meta game.
Great idea with the meddling mages Rock lee. My storm opponent didn't see any permanent based hate g2, so on g3 i got greedy and named Tendrils of agony with Meddling mage and he conceded right after so i must assume he left out his chain of vapors or just felt to much pressure from the known fluster in hand.