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Someone else noticed that Junk and DnT players now play Eidolon of Rhetoric additional to their canonists since OmniTell is big meta deck? :/
Pretty bad since we have to find Chains (if we boarded them).
I usually don't board Abrupt Decay against DnT, might be a mistake?
Wasteland + Mother makes me feel bad when boarding it. Mostly I board Dread of Nights + 1-2 Chain of Vapor since they can also generate a nice natural Storm kill with mana stones and may not be completely dead then...
I split the top 4 of a legacy 1k this Sunday with 2 of my pals one being my team mate (red blue delver) and the other being one of our testing friends(infect).* The last player was a sneak and show player that I 2-0ed in the Swiss.
I feel like I did not "run hot" at all during the Swiss portion of the event. I feel like I played much much better then I drew. In top 8 I definitely ran hot. And I definitely feel I had good match ups.
4 delta
4 misty
1 bayou
1 tropical
1 volcanic
2 underground
1 island
1 swamp
4 lotus petal
4 Lions eye diamond
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
4 Gitaxian probe
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 infernal tutor
2 preordain
4 cabal therapy
2 duress
1 rain of filth
1 GRIM TUTOR***
1 past in flames
1 adnauseaum
1 tendrils
Side
1 forest
1 empty the warrens
3 xantid Swarm
2 dread of night
3 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
3 abrupt decay.
**(Changed it for fnm this passed Friday and decided to stick with it until a bad situation came I. Also I won our 10 dollar 150% pay out legacy fnm. With the same 75)
Round 1 vs TES this match up was a slobberknocker it took all 3 games and I won on turn 3 of turns. Flusterstorms and surgical did a ton of work post board. Game 2 I cast adnauseaum at 18 life and went to 2 and had mana floating and still couldn't kill him and drew no lions eye diamonds. When I moved to clean up I decided to keep a land so I could play one next turn. That choice cost me the game because I always had a land in stuck in my hand for 3 subsequent turns. A fellow storm player was watching over my shoulder and he couldn't believe it either. I really really wish I had taken pictures or wish that it was being recorded because even now I can't help but think I missed something. It surely would've been an intersting puzzle to try to solve later.
Instead I have to chalk it up to fact that sometimes you have to pass the turn at storm 9 with over 10 cards in your hand with plenty of mana in your pool and then not being able to trigger hellbent after playing draw go for 3 turns variance.
Round 2 vs sneak and show I demolished this typically bad match up match I stripped his hand game 1 and then killed him with twndrils. Game 2 I had xantid Swarm in play when his blood moon turned a recently "useless" bayou into a mountain for me so I could use past in flames from my hand to "natural double" tendrils him. If he wasn't so helpful i might have had to play game 3.
Round 3 tricky mysterious 4 color abzan.
In hind sight, This deck wasn't really mysterious but game 1 he mulls aggresively to 5 then snap keeps and leads with marsh flats I ponder. He plays a Karakas and then passes. I killed him on turn 3 after probing him. After the probe and the mulling I put him on junk looking for discard. Or deathblade mulling for force...
I board 2 decay, 2 flusterstorm 2 dread 1 forest
board out 2 probe 2 duress 1 rain 1 led 1 tropical island
Game 2 is amazing some minor details are missing like cantrips and probes and such but here is my take on it.. he leads with thoughtsieze takes an led I take my turn and ponder. He plays turn 2 meddling mage !?!. He names infernal tutor which sucks because I have 2 in hand. On my turn 2 I play a dread of night and opt to keep up brainstorm and flusterstorm and pass. On his turn 3 he casts green Sun for 2 ! I chose to flusterstorm. My turn 3 is spent cantripping. I decide to draw a forest because I know he plays waste and I have decay in hand I pass. He plays turn 4 stoneforge and fails to find. On my turn 4 I cabal therapy batterskull and hit. His turn 5 he plays a jitte and equips. On My turn 6 I attempt to play my second dread of night like a big jerk he decays the 1st one in response. On my turn 7 I am staring down lethal and I am only at 3 life my hand now*contains a dead grim tutor an abrupt decay 2 dark ritual a tendrils and 2 dead infernal tutors. I lead with abrupt decay on jitte (he gains life) then 1 dark ritual (i choose to save the second for the next turn) I then cast tendrils gaining 6 life putting him to 18 and enabling the grim tutor. He takes his turn and plays a death rite shaman. I then take my turn and draw past in flames and because I opted to save the ritual I am able to go off at just enough life with grim tutor and past in flames to kill him. The match was pretty nuts with way too much interaction for one day.
Round 4 vs elves. At this point he asks for the draw as we can double draw in. I say no because I want to be on the play in top 8. G1 I kill him on turn 2, g2 he gets ruric thar on turn 2, g3 he plays a turn 2 null rod then I draw the infernal tutor I need to go off and I lead with abrupt decay on the rod play out 2 petals an led a cabal ritual, and kill him with the freshly drawn infernal.
Round 5 id with pal on infect.
TOP 8 I play against the mysterious abzan deck since I saw no counter magic in the Swiss I kill him on turn 2 both games and then have to wait for an eternity for my friends playing their slow decks. Its a miracle all 3 of us made it to top 4, I agree not to crush their dreams provided we can all go get some fish frys together. They agree.
After a ten minute drive we all get there and we win first round against fish frys,* home made Mac salad, shrimp rolls and hand spun milkshakes. Best round of the day for sure.
All in all it was a good event,
Quick notes
Grim tutor wasn't good all day until the meddling mage match when it hands down won the game of it had been lim duls vault my tendrils would've been hit by death rite.
At one point had 4 infernal tutors in hand and got cabal therapied for dark ritual. At one point I had 3 dark rituals and hand and got therapied for infernal tutor.
Ad nauseaum continues to not shine however it actually won both top 8 games.
My basic forest was a boon for the abzan opponent.
Fish fry friends stay friends for life.
man just saw you tech (lists are online now btw), congratz!!! how it worked in tournament? i assume very well since you top 4 but you side in doomsday a lot?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Practicaly no use at all due to my MUs, I did use it a single time and died to a Waste:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
In which match-ups did you plan to bring it in? Miracles maybe? Everything that doesn't run Wasteland? I really like the tech anyway! :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Also, looking at Pascal's list: is Iona just supposed to be put into play with Show and Tell naming blue? Or maybe there's another use cracking Led and switching Top? :eyebrow: In my games against OmniTell I felt pretty much good, I think we are the favourite to win, is Iona really needed? As much as I love the card, I don't like it too much in Ant's sideboard. Am I missing something?
It simply mimics the OmniTell-Mirror dilemma of you being unable to cast S&T without getting fucked by the consequences. I suspect the recent evolution to UB OmniTell to have an edge in the mirror by discarding your opponents bomb before you cast S&T will also render the Iona tech a short living one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
My issue with Doomsday is that Miracles runs Wasteland at times and the kill is slow and foreseeable on top of being very commiting. In those regards and due to the fact that it can be handled via Terminus and Karakas (Legend build) I don't see a significant advantage over EtW(s), while Pyromancer is already known as a less commiting option to the matchup
well but even if i didnt work very well, we have a doosmday in top8 ahahQuote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Recently, a lot of players seem to have increased the number of Past in Flames in their maindecks. I've also seen an increased number of Tendrils.
I don't mean to miscredit any innovators, but notable examples include Kai's list from the Japanese GP and Martin's list from Prague Eternal.
What is the reasoning behind this?
What specific matchups is this supposed to benefit?
Do these changes imply a different playstyle, e.g. more focus on storming out "naturally" with the cards you have in hand? Any other changes in strategy/playstyle one should be aware about when trying similar lists?
Are the double PiF and Tendrils always correlated, or are they separate solutions to separate problems?
Please excuse my questions if they come of as naïve. I used to be quite familiar with ANT but haven't followed the deck (or the format) as tightly for the last couple of years.
Miracles, there was a lot of them on Friday (same with Omnitell), the better of them knew I'm not running creatures and they do not play Karakas/waste at all, also there was a really good SDTcombo player at 2byesQuote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
I think he lost to some on Friday and just wanted more radical solution
would be Pernicious Deed less awesome? ; )Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
deck gets more resilient and persistent, beats counterspells betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly_Bear
more or less all of them, depends on the combination
not in my case in most situations, in some MUs/or at 3 ToA you might want to be aware of other lines and save resources like GP
not always but those card benefit from each other at multiple copies in certain aspects
different people like different combinations in this thread, try to find out yourself what suits you best
I saw Wagner Pascal play with ANT three times in this year (ovino, mkm series and Prague Eternal) and he made top 8 in all those tournaments...I'm new to this deck but I can't understand why he plays 3 ToA, 2 PIF and a single copy of Rain of Filth...has anyone an explanation for this particular combination of cards?? It is strange and different from other typical ANT lists...why no Grim Tutor in main deck?
And the last question, does the Burning Wish version still competitive or it is only worse than "normal" list??
Thanks so much to everybody that contributed to this forum, I learned so much from all of you guys already. I am trying to become a real storm trooper before GP Lille.
I had some hands that I was wondering about whether to mulligan them or not (both on the play and on the draw). Thanks in advance for all the advice.
1.http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...psqv6djapj.jpg
2.http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...psr1vdfyn5.jpg
3.http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...pscqphotuq.jpg
4.http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps62fmnvfp.jpg
you should read posts of Jona and his blog regarding Grinding stationQuote:
Originally Posted by meso94
Hermans - theoreticaly I'd keep all of them depending on the MU, in vacuum I'd mull the 3.
3 is a mulligan for me as well.
Number 1 is pretty tricky, because if Ponder hits, you can go off very soon, but I made the experience, that no landers should not be kept, even if you have multiple probes or something like you have in your example (petal-cantrip)...
Also the card disadvantage of petal-> cantrip is so annoying, I think I would mull that, especially on the play...
EDIT: Nice idea of posting tricky starting hands. Might create some worthy discussions/opinions... :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Where i can find this posts and his blog?? Thanks a lot...and good idea for the opening hands, it helps a lot in my opinion
i think deed could be interesting but not sure if 3 mana isnt to heavy. i know grip is also 3, but split second its better :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
but talking about deed remeber me the city of solitude , you test city ? for a moment we talk here aboiut it and some people play it, but suddenly disapeer too :/ maybe isnt that good?
One finals, one semi-finals, but definately both winnable matchups (although the blade player is my friend Luke and he doesn't like combo :P, g3 he started with t1 thoughtseize on the draw and then revealed Meddling Mage, Counterspell, Spell Pierce, Z Persecution, Flusterstorm, Force of Will, Land to my probe. I'm around 50/50 against him with deathblade). And yeah, I'll be tiring myself out on Friday ;(, sadly the infi trial packages are already gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai
Are you going Empty main in Lille as well? I somewhat like AdN right now against basicly the entire meta.
There are several good ANT variants right now, the standard is 15 lands (rarely 14)/16 fast mana(rarely 15),4 Infernal, 1 PiF, 1 ToA,12 Cantrips (BS,PN,GP),6 Discard . The last 5 slots are filled in differently by different schools of ANT:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis
- Grinding Station (See posts by Jona & lists from Pascal Wagner @ MKM and PE)
- 2 PiF ANT (see Martin's PE list & Kai's Japan list, has an increasing # of followers)
- Grim Tutor ANT (Fairly standard, 1 Grim Tutor, 0-1 SDT, 0-2 Preordain, 0-1 CT, 1 AdN/EtW added to the 55)
- 16 cantrip ANT (rare these days, but working well for me lately, plays 4 Preordain and 1 AdN in the 5 slots)
Gratz! Nice results, and we'll get the lonely Aggro Loam player at Lille :P. I like the idea of Doomsday when noone expects it, sad to hear it didn't work. Not a fan of Pascal's Iona tech though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin
Hard to compare goldfish numbers of our lists since yours is extremely grindy. My killing methods so far:
4 Preordain version:
t1: 50% AdN, 50% PiF (PiF hands go t1 surprisingly often)
t2: 10% AdN, 60% PiF, 20% Tutor Chain, 10% Natural Tendrils
t3: 20% AdN, 53% PiF, 20% Tutor Chain, 7% Natural Tendrils
t4: 67% PiF, 33% Tutor Chain
Grim Tutor version: (might have been sharper for these, so more tutor chains, also note AdN fizzles here whereas it didn't above)
t1: 83% AdN, 17% PiF
t2: 38% AdN, 28% PiF, 31% Tutor Chain, 3% Natural Tendrils
t3: 32% AdN, 28% PiF, 28% Tutor Chain, 12% AdN pass turn before
t4: 25% AdN, 42% PiF, 25% Tutor Chain, 8% AdN pass turn before
I find most of these pretty interesting. I keep #2 and #4 unless I need to race (odds to hit are just way too low then) but they often turn out worse than cantrip hands for me. In similar fashion #1 is not strong enough to snapkeep (If one of the cantrips is a another ritual I wouldn't really hesitate), but especially on the draw I'd almost always keep. #3 is a very weak version of a hand I'd like to keep, a few lands, fast mana, probe and cantrip, but I'd often keep it anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermans
Linked in my signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by meso94
Regarding the hands shown above (too lazy to read other replies, so if it's resolved, whatever). I mull everything except for the one with Preordain in the dark. In combo mirrors, I keep all of them, at least on the play. The first one I mull on the draw against combo as well. The second one is also a keep vs. Canadian. Basically, none of these hands do anything.
Regarding hands: On the play i'll mulligan every hand except 1 and 3. On the draw i'll mull all hands except 3. Sometimes you can totally get there with your gitaxian probe / discard and mana hands, but in my experience you're just as likely to just die doing nothing the rest the game.
I found my Top4 match at GP Kyoto with japanese comments, hilarious ! :D
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/1434611707
Smoth g1Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Lucky that cmc3 on balance and that he taps out.
I have not been able to find the other games :(
Its fun to hear the japanese coverage and the words I know and undersand in given situations.