[Deck] Dredge

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Originally Posted by Gui

Of course you need Grudge in your hand and two mana open for that.

On the bright side, we know how to side against any deck now. we can use Nature's Claim + Spree every g2 if the things get ugly.

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Well, it was like that before Extration, too^^.

I agree with Hollywood:
If you insist on running DR+Target in your LED dredge build, nothing is better than Sun Titan. This is what I meant with depending on your play style: There are viable options for both DR lists and no DR lists.

@K1W1
In Iserlohn that SB is probably the safest call.
I mean there is an absurd amount of Graveyard hate in NRW(thanks Dennis).
I had more than one tournament where I lost due to my opponent playing 10 hate cards....

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@K1W1
In Iserlohn that SB is probably the safest call.
I mean there is an absurd amount of Graveyard hate in NRW(thanks Dennis).
I had more than one tournament where I lost due to my opponent playing 10 hate cards....

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Well, i think so, too. I just can hope there won't be too much NicFit. As i said few pages ago, they have too much hate.
One question to you: Are you the one wearing a Mighty Ducks Shirt in Iserlohn?
I have two persons in my mind who could be you.
What ever, maybe see you there.

K1w1

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Originally Posted by K1w1

Well, i think so, too. I just can hope there won't be too much NicFit. As i said few pages ago, they have too much hate.
One question to you: Are you the one wearing a Mighty Ducks Shirt in Iserlohn?
I have two persons in my mind who could be you.
What ever, maybe see you there.

K1w1

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Nope, that's not me. You mean that manaless dredge guy.

I wear Mighty Ducks Shirts? Oo

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Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth

I wear Mighty Ducks Shirts? Oo

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Nope. I don't know his name sorry:D

Now let's get BTT.

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Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus

@Devil: You can recur it or dredge into it and put it on top with thug.

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Yeah, Ingot Chewer also dodges Spell Snare and Spell Pierce - I can see myself going down to 1x Ray of Revelation (I hate auto-scooping against Humility, though no one plays it) and playing 2x Chewers along 4x 1cc answers. That said:

1) Since Grafdigger's Cage lets us keep our cards in the graveyard, Ichorids and Therapies should still be there - can't we just EOT Chain of Vapor the Cage, then recur some Ichorids and Therapy it away?
2) Is the dependancy on 2 cards worse than Claim's cc constraint?
3) Isn't playing both Chain of Vapor and Nature's Claim a better option than Claim + Chewer?

It looks worth having one or two chewer just because of the Thug trick. Also, it looks possible to side a Darkmor Salvage to enhance the thug trick. Since we can dredge with Cage online, we can then proceed dredging a thug, and if we need we can get a Darkmor to cast him, to get the Chewer and destroy the artifact.

This won't be very effective against every deck, but against some slow ones, that might do the trick.

Gosh am I dumb. Actually , DigitalDevil , I never thought of using chain. Maybe because I dislike the card so much.
Anyways, If you EOT Chain you are still dead to countermagic if you only have one Chain.

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Originally Posted by Digital Devil

Yeah, Ingot Chewer also dodges Spell Snare and Spell Pierce - I can see myself going down to 1x Ray of Revelation (I hate auto-scooping against Humility, though no one plays it) and playing 2x Chewers along 4x 1cc answers. That said:

1) Since Grafdigger's Cage lets us keep our cards in the graveyard, Ichorids and Therapies should still be there - can't we just EOT Chain of Vapor the Cage, then recur some Ichorids and Therapy it away?
2) Is the dependancy on 2 cards worse than Claim's cc constraint?
3) Isn't playing both Chain of Vapor and Nature's Claim a better option than Claim + Chewer?

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I find that Ingot Chewer being able to dodge Snare and Pierce would be a very relevant bonus.

It seems to me that using Chain of Vapor this way makes more sense for builds that would use Cephalid Coliseum. I didn't realize that we had that option, and it's great that someone mentioned it. I'm not sure, though, if going about it this way would be better than using Ingot Chewer, because the trick with Golgari Thug sounds like it can really be useful. Also, this method requires 2 cards to work (or even 3, if you're casting Cabal Therapy from the GY). At this point, it sounds to me like those that are using Cephalid Coliseum would benefit from using Chain of Vapor this way (which also helps against random stuff that has already been discussed) alongside Nature's Claim, and those that don't should probably use Ingot Chewer instead.

Kind Regards,
jares

Chewer also gives you tokens in conjunction with Bridge from Below in the graveyard. Nifty.

Sorry, I might just not be seeing this, but with the chewer plan, how to you plan on getting the thug to hit the graveyard from play? You can't therapy with cage in play and I don't think people will be swinging into your thug when a chewer in the graveyard. I still think chain is the best anti-hate SB card for dredge and is probably the best answer here in combination with claim.

As much as I am not an advocate of bringing any more than 4 hate cards in, it seems to me that cage being printed dictates that we should be boarding more hate. I haven't brewed a list I'm 100% happy with for when DKA comes out, but I'm thinking 4 chain and 2-3 claims.

After I get some solid testing in, I will post and updated list here with what I feel is a solid 75

Side note, I am LOVING Sun Titan right now!

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

Chewer also gives you tokens in conjunction with Bridge from Below in the graveyard. Nifty.

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Yep. In the worst case, you can just cast (evoke) an Ingot Chewer to create Zombies on the fly (it has its own sac mechanism!), and this doesn't even require you have legal artifact targets in play.

Cheers,
jares

Thats a very good idea with ignot. I guess the board will consist of 4 natures claim and 4 ignots from now on.

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Originally Posted by dredgekid

Sorry, I might just not be seeing this, but with the chewer plan, how to you plan on getting the thug to hit the graveyard from play? You can't therapy with cage in play and I don't think people will be swinging into your thug when a chewer in the graveyard. I still think chain is the best anti-hate SB card for dredge and is probably the best answer here in combination with claim.

As much as I am not an advocate of bringing any more than 4 hate cards in, it seems to me that cage being printed dictates that we should be boarding more hate. I haven't brewed a list I'm 100% happy with for when DKA comes out, but I'm thinking 4 chain and 2-3 claims.

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The trick with Golgari Thug and an Ingot Chewer in the GY is really just an exploration of what can be done with the card. I guess the main point of noting this is that, in comparison, Nature's Claim, Chain of Vapor, and Shattering Spree are all dead cards when you don't draw them in your opening hand, while Ingot Chewer gives you the chance to "recur" it, however unlikely.

I'll also probably do the same, dedicating around 6 SB slots for artifact hate, likely to be some split between Nature's Claim and Chain of Vapor.

Cheers,
jares

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

Thats a very good idea with ignot. I guess the board will consist of 4 natures claim and 4 ignots from now on.

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I would expect 8 SB slots to be overkill, though I guess it'll be the metagame that will decide on the necessity of having as much Artifact hate as possible.

Kind Regards,
jares

Hello All,

After some local play testing I have a new decklist that I put together.


//Lands 12
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum

//Dredgers 12
4 Golgari Grave-troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Brownscale

//Other Creatures 18
4 Ichorid
4 Nethershadow
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

//Goodstuffz 18
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Bridge From Below
3 Dread Return
3 Cabal Therapy



As for the sideboard, I am unsure of what to put in it tbh. I was thinking something like


4 Chain of Vapor
//Or
4 Echoing Truth
4 Bloodghast
3 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Naturalize


I am still very new to the deck so I am unsure if my sideboard is where it needs to be, however in the local area there is not a lot of thought seize, so I do not think that I need the bloodghasts in the main.

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Originally Posted by Beatusnox

Hello All,

After some local play testing I have a new decklist that I put together.


//Lands 12
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum

//Dredgers 12
4 Golgari Grave-troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Brownscale

//Other Creatures 18
4 Ichorid
4 Nethershadow
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

//Goodstuffz 18
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Bridge From Below
3 Dread Return
3 Cabal Therapy



As for the sideboard, I am unsure of what to put in it tbh. I was thinking something like


4 Chain of Vapor
//Or
4 Echoing Truth
4 Bloodghast
3 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Naturalize


I am still very new to the deck so I am unsure if my sideboard is where it needs to be, however in the local area there is not a lot of thought seize, so I do not think that I need the bloodghasts in the main.

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Have you tried reading through this forum to see what has been generally agreed upon to be a "working" list? I'd suggest that you review the opening post so that you could review the considerations you need to make when building this deck.

Cheers,
jares

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Originally Posted by Beatusnox

could you tell me what cardinal sin of playing dredge I have committed? Its the brownscales isnt it? I like the lifegain, sue me. The op mentions if you run more than 11 lands run the fourth coliseum. If you can find room run 3 dread return do it. Run a minimum of 11 dredgers I have twelve. 4 bridges and narcomoeba. Is it that the op says careful study is terrible?
Maybe its the fact there is only 3 cabal therapy. Whatever the case maybe, please o lord of dredge who is telling me what the primer said is wrong whatever should I do. /sarcasm.

I'm not running ingot chewer in the board until dark ascension. The current hate proves strong enough for now.

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I'll try to elaborate what jares refer to, if you don't mind.
Brownscale is very unusual. The effect of Thug is powerful, and wins a lot of games, due to being able to put back a Moeba or a PImp, but yeah, if you feel more comfortable with the Brownscale, I guess it's a valid choice.
The OP is a little outdated, card choice wise, neither Dread Returns nor DR targets are necessary, but they are very viable, still, just depends on playstyle and meta I guess.
Either ways, I would advice you to try at least without the FKZ, since he is very much win-more alot of the times. If you decide to do so, you can also cut the 3rd Dread Return in favor of e.g. the 4th Therapy( in general I would never leave the house without a full playset, it's by far the best card in the deck imo). If you decide to run DR targets at all, Iona is a very reasonable choice.
What I don't like about your list are the Nethershadows, the Land count and your sideboard.I would strongly recommend to go up to at least 14, if not 15 lands pre board.Darkblast, Tribe or Firestorm seem like a good idea to me, too, but I guess it also works without, but a Darkblast fills up remaining slots quite smoothly.

May I ask you why you run your Sideboard like that? I can imagine a meta that makes it reasonable, so I'm curious about the reasoning behind your choices.
In general, Naturalize is a very weak Ancient Grudge, imo, if you like Naturalize because of being able to blow up enchantments, too, Nature's Claim seems like the way to go.If you run Chain of Vapor(which is almost always stronger than Truth), you normally just need Ancient Grudges and maybe one Ray of Revalation.
To be honest, Bloodghasts to me are not a card to play in Dredge. You might wanna try running additional Dread Return targets, like Angel of Despair, Terastodon, Sadistic Hypnotist, Elesh Norn( Great for the mirror) and such. Uses less space and makes the sideboard really versatile.

Hope my input helps and neither I nor jares want to seem like we're being arrogant, so sorry if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by Beatusnox

could you tell me what cardinal sin of playing dredge I have committed? Its the brownscales isnt it? I like the lifegain, sue me. The op mentions if you run more than 11 lands run the fourth coliseum. If you can find room run 3 dread return do it. Run a minimum of 11 dredgers I have twelve. 4 bridges and narcomoeba. Is it that the op says careful study is terrible?
Maybe its the fact there is only 3 cabal therapy. Whatever the case maybe, please o lord of dredge who is telling me what the primer said is wrong whatever should I do. /sarcasm.

I'm not running ingot chewer in the board until dark ascension. The current hate proves strong enough for now.

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If you prefer sarcasm, then I shall indulge you with it.

It looks like you've really put some thought into the following things: /sarcasm

• It's great that you have 12 Dredgers instead of the minimum 11! Such flawless logic! You've really taken the extra mile with that! /sarcasm
• Never mind that the Dredger you're choosing NOT to use can dredge TWICE as much as the Dredger that you're using because you blush when you gain life. Life gain is definitely what you want to be doing in this deck. /sarcasm
• Don't worry about not being able to understand that right away, as it's not very obvious to everyone that "drawing 4 cards" is better than "drawing 2 cards". It's not that obvious, really. /sarcasm
• It isn't like this deck is named Dredge because you win by abusing the Dredge mechanic by DREDGING AS MUCH AS YOU CAN when you can, so go ahead, feel free to gain life instead. /sarcasm
• Never mind that Golgari Thug helps feed your Ichorid - gaining life is much much better. /sarcasm
• Looks like this is the perfect deck for you to be gaining life. Have fun. /sarcasm
• You're very very likely to be able to get two lands in play, especially by adding 3x Undiscovered Paradise in the SB (the fact these go back to your hand doesn't really matter), so the 2-cc cards in the SB are simply brilliant. /sarcasm
• You might be on to something here... maybe another archetype you can call "Lifegain Dredge". Sounds catchy. /sarcasm

Overall, good job on the list. /sarcasm

Enjoy, /sarcasm

Lord of Dredge /sarcasm

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Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus

Hope my input helps and neither I nor jares want to seem like we're being arrogant, so sorry if that's the case.

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Your insight is appreciated, HokusSchmokus. I apologize that, in this case, I've decided to respond in kind.

Regards,
jares