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Yes, I agree. Delver are much better against combo then Miracles. Delver can get a fast clock and get access to Daze and Force of Will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Sure, Miracles could close the deal with Counterbalance and Top but they will not win the game, just not lose this turn.
I played deadguy to a rough 2-3 this past weekend(should have had a shot at taking g3 vs elves but tilted myself hard). Beat infect and death and taxes handily, got crushed by two god hands vs BR reanimator, and lost to topless miracles to miss the top 8 cut. Still having a lot of fun playing the deck at the moment.
One matchup Ive found especially tricky though is aggro-loam. That seems borderline unwinnable to me, but maybe im just not playing my lines right. Anyone else find this matchup painful?
The few times I've played aggro loam I've ignored everything they were doing, saved wastelands for their marit lage and then slowly killed them with lingering souls tokens and equipment. We have basics and moxes, so can't get waste locked. Waste, Shaman and SoFaI (+GY board hate) can stop punishing fire. Chalice is a pain but not that detrimental when you're playing bobs, hymns, brutalities, SFM, souls and lilis
How were you losing? What were you struggling against?
I've played vs Aggro Loam a fair bit and for me, it's in my favor. Punishing Fire is annoying but manageable most of the time. Plus I play a ton of GY hate and creature removal. Chalice is hit and miss. Sometimes it's super annoying, other times I don't draw a 1 mana card, or lol I have one but I throw it on Chrome Mox. Plus, I have a Decay, 2 Vindicate and an explosives to deal with it.
When I tried Palace Jailer it was insane, lol. Exile your Knight of the Reliquary and eot draw a card. Any creature he played promptly gets killed since I'm drawing 2 cards a turn now.
I've been pretty 50/50 in my matchups, postboard it gets way better. Most of my games have been like your standard rock vs rock games where you just toss things at each other until something sticks and that person usually wins the game. Imo the best way to attack Aggro Loam is to attack the threat base (Liliana, Bob, Knight, the random silver bullets) and you generally win the match. Palace Jailer seems nuts against that deck.
Yeah, unfortunately I cut Palace Jailer. Too many True Name Nemesis and flash creatures like Snapcaster for Jailer to be viable IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
Still, Dead guy (or at least the pile I play with lol) is good vs Aggro Loam. Game 1 can be a bit rough at times but games 2 and 3 are fine.
What is the preferred way to share a deck list for review?
I have been playing & tuning for a while and would like some empathetic feedback on my current pile of that's okay by you's guys. :cool:
I think Jeff Hoogland did a good breakdown with this artical:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy_Eyes
http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/
Interesting, i wonder why im finding aggro-loam so rough...maybe just variance not swinging my way? Do you guys run leyline of the void/RiP or surgical extraction (or both)?
Ive been running surgicals in the board but am thinking of going back to leyline because its unaffected by chancellor of the annex vs BR reanimator, and is harder to play around with loam/pfire than a deathrite.
Quick and dirty tourney report on a ~20 man at my LGS over the weekend. There was a heavy representation of Blade and Delver which is actually pretty unusual for our meta, usually at least a couple DnT players, of which none turned up. Mostly dodged the ape matchups; there was one RB Reanimator, at least two SnS and two Eldrazi. Felt good to face zero equipment decks having just cut Manriki. Nailed it.
List, basically Jain's 75.
Creatures 12
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells 29
3 Chrome Mox
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Council's Judgment
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Lands 19
1 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Scrubland
3 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
Sideboard 15
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Gideon of the Trials
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
R1 L 1-2 – BUG delver w/ TNN & Leo
Crushed the first game with an unanswered Lili, six spirits closed things out.
Post board games were close and interactive, never resolved a Deluge and needed to draw more Souls.
Feels bad to lose first round, however op was friendly and games were fun.
R2 W 2-1 – Grixis Delver w/ Pyro/Therapy
G1, Not much to comment on here, drew and cast multiple Souls, they did their job.
G2, Delver on the play did Delver things. Got nailed with a Daze that I should have played around after Moxing for a two drop (I think an escalated CB), then decided to play into Daze hoping there wasn’t one. There was. Daze, daze, daze, lose.
G3, see G1. ZP got me there a turn faster.
R3 W 2-0 – LED Dredge
He was clearly tired and tilted, only saw one bridge and it was in the post SB game so I had it on lock with surgical, I was also in a position to attack into it and a Jitte online to pick off my SFM.
G1, all I remember is that his dredges gave me enough time to suit up a spirit with SoFaI for max beats.
G2 he had two Firestorms in hand, lead with confluence and passed, snapped off waste on his only land with a surgical in hand.
Felt the lack of a second green source in this match as I assembled double DRS in both games, ultimately didn’t matter however – not sure if the ability to hold up double activation of DRS is even a reason to play a second G source without any actual G spells.
Side note; I’ve never been impressed with this deck, especially with RB in the format. People should just play Burn if they want a linear budget(ish) deck.
R4 W 2-1 – Turbo Depths
G1, quick token was answered by Lili with a NotW dead in hand (had the full 4, not sure this is stock?), wasn’t able to reload.
G2, I was in control most of the game with wasteland and discard, he only just snuck the combo through.
T1 Needle, didn’t crack Flats in response but whatever. T2, Depths, Needle on Waste. Hymned a 2nd Depths into the bin and surgical’d, then had double swords for when he eventually cracked the on board Depths with Stage and Cropped for Sejiri Steppe.
R5 ID – Deathblade variant (not 100% on build)
ID to Deathblade variant, 7th seed on 3-1-1
Qtr Final L 1-2 – Grixis Delver w/ Pyro/Therapy
Lost to a bit of a noob lucker, He was new to Legacy and made some new-to-Legacy plays – end step Brainstorm FTW. I swear I’m not salty. I swear.
G1, again, cast lots of Souls vs Delver and won – I think I see a pattern emerging. Lili did some work, Souls blocked some fish and then carried a SoFaI across the line.
G2 was pretty sweet; he landed a TNN and started pecking away while SFM found and slammed a Batterskull, he made a big fish. I was just behind in the race with a DRS helping out. He ended up taking BS with a Grudge that was Hymned and I was left chumping with spirit, DRS keeping me on life support. I went to 5 end of his turn, knowing I had one draw step, ripped Deluge, put myself to 7 with DRS, cast Deluge for 5. Spell Pierced with one mana up, scoop.
G3 mulled a medium 6 w/ 1 land, had TS forced, never drew a second land, end of tournament.
Final thoughts
I definitely made a few misplays, worst of which were mechanical; missed Bob triggers and end step DRS activations. Also, boarded out TS a bit aggressively in the Delver games leaving myself with few one drops – however I still don’t love it in the matchup.
Didn’t play against any tiered spell combo decks, both Dredge and Depths feel like good matchups – wouldn’t leave home with less than 3 Surgicals in the side. This also might lead me to over value Souls as they’re so good in the fair matchups, but I’ll be sticking with four for the time being.
Judgement main felt pretty bad all day, WW is tough. I never got to board them in, but after having done some further thinking on Therapy I don’t think they have a place in the SB. The matchups that you want it, you won’t have any incidental creatures to flashback with. I’ll be sleeving up at least a split with Duress in the future. Still unsure on two vs three Mox, never had an issue with the third copy however my experience is still a very small sample size – but I love me some fast mana gotcha.
Changes to my list;
MB
-1 Council’s Judgement, +1 Vindicate
I still like the idea of having a catchall main, even though it doesn’t tag TNN. I’m not wholly convinced this is correct use of the flex slot. I had toyed with adding IOK, but we’re already so heavy on discard. Might procure a Guile and see how that feels.
-1 Swamp, +1 Savanah
Didn’t value the basics as much as I thought I would. Necessary if I end up with a Guile main.
SB
-2 Cabal Therapy, +1 Duress, +1 Blackmail
Duress is great – as long as it’s the Urza’s Saga printing. Blackmail is a bit of a pet card, I like taking peoples lands. Don’t judge me. Should probably be a Pithing Needle, that’s what I have next for addition to the SB.
-1 Ensnaring Bridge, +1 Damnation
Bridge is terrible, everyone brings in shatters vs SFM. I do however like having another answer to creatures, possible that the third Deluge is just better but multiples against delve threats can get very painful. The split seems fine.
@Boltagon, thanks for running the list and + report, congrats on going 3-1-1 in swiss
I'm happy that you ended up reverting some of the changes you made back to what I had originally (2 G lands, Duress in the side etc), adds more data/testing to the list. And glad you didn't have problems with 3 moxes. Regarding bob triggers, I always put my bob next to my library whenever he is on the field, so I look at him before I draw and after 4-5 years it becomes second nature I guess.
I agree on Council's but I feel like it's a necessary evil. Maybe TNN can be answered with racing and lilianas and so Vindicate is just better. Love that it can hit lands obviously. It's for a similar reason I hesitate on Gideons, WW is tough.
Regarding bridge, you don't side it in for fair matchups that have shatter and disenchant, but for the unfair creautre decks like eldrazi, reanimator, depths and Show n Tell.
@Thief, I run 2 extracts, 1 RIP and 1 Etutor
@Sleepy, any format is fine, as long as it is cost sorted and presented in some kind of logical fashion. If lands, cmc1 and cmc5 spells are all mixed together, I don't read it. I prefer lists presented on here, than on secondary websites, but thats me.
Another list similar to what we've been playing did well in a 50-man tourney in England/London this weekend:
https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com...-monthly-july/
Yea that is our list, well spotted. I wonder if they know about the source. Tournament report please if you see this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjaulnir
I'll point Niklas in this direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
Cheers! I guess I'll be even happier if he came to the list independentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
Lol that seems a weird thing to say seeing as wilkin has been rocking a similar list for ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
Wilkin seems to be more of the spicy additions though? (Hero of Bladehold, Shriekmaw, Cabal Therapy), while the one Jain and me had been working on the last 1-2 months is a bit more straightforward without the typical Wilkin Chau cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
The list that placed in London seems to be more in line with
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16268&d=300471
than with f.ex.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14546&d=287271&f=LE
is what I think he meant.
Any example of any deadguy list doing well is good and interesting to us, but we are also interested in the card choices between lists too, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
I think it's safe to say you can differentiate between Hoogland's, Wilkin's, mine, yours and others' style of list. Given the no nonsense 4 ofs, the brutalities, lack of decays, council's and e tutor sideboard you have to admit it's likely that Niklas read one of my reports or saw Fjaulnir's report/mtgo posting. If that is so, then its great that the list is spreading and doing well for people, and thereby giving more weight to the card choices (in comparison to other builds). If that isn't the case, then he came to those card choices without our influence, and that lends more weight to them imo (convergent evolution etc), hence my comment.
I mean the goal here is to develop the most powerful builds of deadguy for the current metagame that we can all muster, right? To the point were we can nail down 95% of the card slots for each kind of build, in the same way the more populated decks in tier 1 do. That's my aim anywho, I'm here because I think this is the best non-blue midrange deck in the format right now (it wasn't previously imo), and I want to wreck with it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to claim I invented deadguy by myself; but when I decided to drop green from my junk builds, I knew what cards I was interested in playing and that talking to you guys would be the best thing to do (confirming bitterblossom and coptor aren't where we want to be for example), but the lists I saw floating around here weren't consistent enough for me or had other issues (like no DRS), so I made a build I consider leaner.
That's my thoughts anyway. Am I making sense, or am I talking out of my arse? XD Apologies if I came off in a different way though.
Fair enough. I guess I misread what you were trying to say, sorry!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
For those of you that run prelate in your board, is it a card that you bring in for the delver matchups?
Honestly my pleasure in running the list – I’m just happy to put my Bobs and Wolf Hymns to work. Also huge fan of Souls and think it is criminally underplayed in Legacy – one of the reasons I think it is great right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
Assuming we’re locked on the rest of the MB (obviously Fjaulnir has opened up some extra slots w/ 3 Souls, 3 Hymn) and agree that the one flex slot needs to deal with TNN, wouldn’t Deluge be better? We agree that Council’s is clunky and awkward, and I think Deluge is also more impactful vs some of our rougher to 50/50 matchups – Elves, DnT – also a great answer to the Leo decks and Pyro (however painful Deluge for 5 is to murder a fish).
On the SB Gideons, Trials is there just for testing (never cast it), it might be terrible but can at least buy some time and doesn’t hurt to have another way to turn the corner. Ally, is extremely impactful in the matchups he’s brought in, admittedly he was better when Miracles w/ Top was in the format. Post board it’s going to be a little grind-ier, with more opportunity to make land drops to get WW. Again, it’s also nice to have a big beat stick to close with or the option to -4 with Souls on board. Will always run at least one in my SB till proven wrong (I also run 1-2 in my DnT board).
Following that trend, happy to be proven wrong and sorry if Bridge has been discussed in detail earlier in the thread. I understand that it’s for the unfair matchups, even though I was a little cheeky and boarded it vs Delver. Punished. Of course.
To provide comment on each deck you listed;
Eldrazi – sweepers are arguably better even if Damnation is a little slow. I guess they can also…ratchet bomb on three…sure.
Reanimator – they’re snapping of 4 Wear//Tear, 3/4 Decay when boarding against us as they’ll have all the targets, plus fear of RIP/Leyline. And Bridge doesn’t stop them from drawing 14 cards for a shatter.
Depths – Again, their Decays are coming in. Generally a 3 off? I think this matchup is good enough, especially with three Surgicals, which I would advocate strongly.
Show n Tell – I can see an argument here, as they don’t tend to play that many U bounce effects (however they are tutor-able). We’re going to feel pretty bad when revealing Bridge vs Omniscience and then dying to Release the Ants. I have no experience with this matchup, how bad is it?
Is the experience of the players overwhelmingly in favour of Bridge? How much better is it when on the E Tutor plan?
This list is not geared towards any one meta or particular playgroup because i'll be travelling a bit for the rest of 2017.
She plays well but I'm torn between 2x and 3x L-Souls and decided to run 2x until the MB Gideons have been through their paces (so far, so very good).
List:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Chrome Mox
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Batterskull
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Hymn to Tourach
2x Lingering Souls
2x Vindicate
2x Gideon of the Trials
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Karakas
1x Windswept Heath
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Polluted Delta
4x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
3x Swamp
2x Scrubland
3x Wasteland
SB:
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Surgical Extraction
1x Containment Priest
1x Zealous Persecution
2x Collective Brutality
2x Rest in Peace
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Hymn is fun and makes my pants tighter but I think the third copy should turn into the third L-Souls while I test lil' Giddy. He has been nothing but pretty solid. He's a lame-looking board staller of modular goodness usually but I've hardly lost if he sticks. That said, I bench him without rhyme or reason in MU's I haven't tested him against much to make sure he's doing work.
Any word on the 3-2 split of Hymn and L-Souls? I feel 2-3 split is probably right but didn't want to muddy the 3CMC slots with Gideon's sweaty muscles taking up temporary residence.
Considering cutting the fourth Extraction for maybe another C-Priest/another value threat (Spirit of Labyrinth, Crusader), another Brutality maybe?
Peace
@Cpt, cool
Thanks, and agreed on hymn and souls, that's why I'm playing 4 of each: I consider them integral to my gameplan, and are the main cards that are gaurenteed to recoup the card disadvantage from moxes in the matchups that that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Boltagon
Regarding the council's slot, because we aren't playing decay or counterspells I get quite uncomfortable not having at least one card maindeck that can answer an onboard jace, equipment or a random permanent, that's why it isn't a toxic deluge and judgment/vindicate instead. That said Deluge is so strong right now, that it might be fine to play 1 or 2 maindeck.
Regarding bridge, it is not by any means a sacred cow, I'm not even sold on it completely myself, I was playing it because of etutor, which you arent running. So it's fine not to run it, but I dont think you're giving it as much respect as it deserves. Your points:
Eldrazi, I think its better than a sweeper because it answers their creatures in play as well as the hasty reality smasher they are casting next turn etc.
Reanimator, that's fair, but it's still a card you will bring in for the matchup as opposed to a deluge or a damnation, when you're siding out all those souls and SFMs etc
Depths, again, its better than many cards and its good to make them need their answer, it's not like you're blanking their decays with your bobs, lilis and other hate anyway.
Show n Tell as you've said. I find the non-omiscience versions to be fair to favourable, and the omniscience versions to be unfavourable because of hastey emrakuls, more tutors, sweepers and ants as you said.
@Sleepy, As I've said, I think one of the main points of the deck right now is having a mana base that supports hymn and lingering souls. Is baby gideon better than souls? I'm trying to test him but I never draw the damn card -.-
Also, can someone explain to me sideboard collective brutality? Isn't the main feature of the card that it's a great maindeck because it does multiple things poorly (thereby increasing consistent interaction G1), why would you waste sideboard slots on a weak/slow card? What am I missing?
'typical wilkin Chau' cards. Lol, that was amusing to read. I do like seeing the variations in the lists. Shows that different decks can work.
For loam decks I side in, 1 surgical, 1 leyline, 1 relic, 1 deluge, 1 explosives, 1 bontu's last reckoning and a prelate. Haven't actually seen the reckoning but the rest works well vs that deck.
I like bridge for show and tell, reanimator and eldrazi. I also board in the sweepers for eldrazi. Works great in conjunction with each other.
Brutality in board is a catch all I board in vs various matchups. I don't put it in main, it getting dazed must suck. Lol. I like boards with versatile answers, in most matchups I board in a ton of cards.
What decks do you sideboard brutality against then? Do you not side it in against delver?
-Burn. I did leave the dream recently by killing his Goblin Guide, making him discard a bolt and draining for 2. unfortunately, neither card discarded was a Lingering Souls but I was still happy with the outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
-Most Combo decks. Like say Storm or Sneak Show. Mostly as a crappy Discard spell.
-Elves. mostly for the Kill creature and hopefully to make them discard Natural Order, Abrupt Decay or Glimpse of Nature.
-I do board it in sometimes vs Delver. But I rarely do it for other than the -2/-2 effect.
@Jain Mor: the main deck baby Gideons are waaaay less fun than Hymn and L-Souls (all of us here know this is a scientific fact)!
They are on point currently because A.) I want to feel out the texture of the card, both positive & negative. and B.) Gideon is a frat house try-hard with an aversion to risk-taking or fun-having so I'd rather bench him without second guessing myself VS bringing him in for game 2 and end up with the feel-bads about the card because I made all the wrong choices when boarding.
He is a very obtuse card but in a way that makes him hard to mitigate. If he sticks, he WILL rue part of your opponent's plan for a turn or two at minimum with zero thought required. He doesn't hose any one card or hate out any one strategy with cunning but maybe being 3CMC with a list of abilities that are perfectly non-specialized/lame is why I feel like he works at all (at least in Legacy).
I don't have my notes with me but he has definitely tilted burn way in our favor. They smash our equips and feel proud, if we disrupt their hand & take their bolts.. slam this guy and insta-emblem they usually can't gain tempo back without some serious luck.
So far his +1 has been a blast... going from being cast as a 4/4 beater one turn to reading your opponent's Big Value Creature of Win for your first time ever to then endlessly prevent it's damage while we are Hyming and sniping lands. That's an easy thing to agree with in theory!
I'm not 100% sure if I'll keep him as an all-time pick but we acquired a very unique card. Most decks have to plan out ways to stall if needed while ours can cast him, beat down, hose their gameplan until answered all while potentially never seeing their deck before.
LotV and this guy on the field together are two peas in a pod.
I can't compare it to anything right now because he's just a very dumb, surprisingly annoying card that has had more effect in my games than its rules are simple.
What I think makes him good is that he can be a autowin against Strom on game 1 and he can be okey card against delver decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy_Eyes
I played in MKM Prague this weekend and played with this list:
EDIT: Added the missing cards
// Deadguy Ale
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
3 Scrubland
4 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Windswept Heath
1 Gideon of the Trails
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Lingering Souls
2 Collective Brutality
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
SB: 1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
Match 1 Lands 1-2
Gah Lands!
Game 1
He keeps his 7 and I mull to 5 with 4 lands and a Gideon. Scry a land to the bottom
He gets a 20/20 turn 3.
Sideborad:
-2 Toxic Deluge
-1 Gideon
-1 Swords to Plowers
-2 Collective Brutality
+2 RiP
+1 Needle
+ 3 Surgical
Game 2
My two first turns was discard hsi Explolareation and Gamble.
He don't get any action, only lands in hand (huhu).
I get two Dark Confidant out with beatdown. I have to pay 1 mana per turn to keep them alive.
He gamble for a card and discard Molten Vortex. He scoops
Game 3
I keep a 6 with lands, discard and plow. He gets his 20/20 on turn 3 and I plow it. He return his 3 lands. I draw my RiP that is one turn too late
0-1
Match 2 Lands 0-2
Lands... again
Game 1
Mull to 5
He gets a turn 1 Molten Vortex and I have only one response to it in my deck. I consacde on turn 5 becasue there were no way I could win that game.
Sideborad:
-2 Toxic Deluge
-1 Gideon
-1 Swords to Plowers
-2 Collective Brutality
+2 RiP
+1 Needle
+ 3 Surgical
Game 2
I mullgan to okay 6 but lands are too good.
0-2
Match 3 Sneak and Show 2-1
I think this matchup is okey for our deck
Game 1
I keep a slow hand 6 with Brutaility, Gideon and Jitte. He counter my discard and gets a Omni out
Sideborad:
-2 Lingering Souls
-1 Gideon of the Trails
-2 Toxic Deludge
-1 Stoneforge
-1 Jitte
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
Game 2
I keep a hand with IoK, Ethersworn, Bob and Needle.
Starts of with IoK to discard his Show and Tell. Then the second turn play Ethersworn and thrid turn bob to Needle. He had only cantrips and didn't find what he needed
Game 3
He keeps his 7. I play a Thoughtseize turn 1. He has lands, Show and tell, Emmkrul and Griselbrand. I get his SaT.
He play his Tomb and pass the turn.
The only think the could kill em was a Sneak attack with Lotus so I played my Deathrite and wated his tomb
He goes land go and I play out my Thalia. The next turn my Bob comes out.
I get the beatdown and pass the turn. I use Deathrite to loss life and he want to response with Cunning Wish. However, Thalia makes everything cost extra and he can't play Kozileks Return
1-2
Match 4 UR Prowess 2-1
Another swede that I didn't know was in the event a nice guy.
Game 1
He is on the play and plays a Tarn to Ponder. This makes me think he is Show and Tell. This makes me fetch to duals.
I Thoughtseize and he daze it. This makes me still thin he is on combo (Show and Tell don't play Daze?)
I think I win this game after get a Jitte out and take over the game
Sideborad:
- 4 Bob
SB: 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
Game 2
I keep a hand with SoFaI and later draw Batterskull and Stoneforge.
He gets Delver and TNN. No removel and I lose.
Game 3
It become a tight game. I have response to his flip Delver. I don't get anything to response to his Strom Mage and goes down to 7 life.
I get a linger souls the goes to chumpblock duty. I have a token left I draw Stoneforge with 6 mana in play. I play it and get a Jitte. My opponent signs so I know he has no response. I play out my Jitte and equip. I get a hit and after that I take over the game.
2-2
Match 5 Maverick 0-2
This should be a good matchup if I am not get wastelanded out
Game 1
I keep a hand with Scrubland, Karakas, Horizon Canpy, Thoughtseize, Bob and Brutality
I am the play and Srucland, Thoughtseize. I see Aether Vail, Brids, Knight, Wasteland, 2 lands.
I take Aether Vial and hope he play his Birds instead of wasteland me.
He wasteland me and I didn't draw any land in 4 turns.
Sideborad:
- 2 Collective Brutality
+ 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
+ 1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
Game 2
I keep land with 1 Srucbland, fetch, Bob and Stoneforge.
No play turn 1 for me
He gets outs a Brids.
I get a Bob out.
He gets a Pridemage and Plow my Bob.
I had to fetch for a second scrubd and think he can't double waste land me. I get my Stoneforge and get a Jitte.
He gets a wasteland and wasteland me. Gets a Railer and wasteland me again.
I didn't draw a land in 4 turns and I tiled. He really had the nut draw
2-3 Drop
Summery:
I felt a bit unlucky when I have to meet 2 lands in my two first games. There were only 9 lands of 288 people.
I don't know if I want 2 Toxic Deludge. Maybe one more Judgement instead?
Colltive is nice but after played casual with my friend with Jund, I missed Hymn.
I was lucky against the Show and Tell at least.
Otherwise the deck felt alright. I need to play with this version more.
Hopefully I will not meet Lands in the first two round in the next tourment
Unlucky on your run, Ganfar (I once played and lost to burn 3 times in a row at GP Kobe, was not happy (with a different deck)). Yea I think I would play hymns before brutality, and I would play brutalities before sculler, but that's me. Also your list is missing cards.
@Wilkin, I guess I see that most of the format falls into the "playing X/2s" or "playing instants and sorceries we want to take" camps so it serves better being available G1, 2 & 3 as opposed to just 2 & 3. I get flexible sideboard cards, but I still want my sideboard cards to be game-changers, which brutality isn't (except against burn.. but that's just burn).
I guess we just chalk it up to different play styles?
That's a fair assessment, being able to just murder a Jace is a really nice upside in favour of Judgment/Vindicate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
Again, all fair points. I think maybe another way to look at it is -1 Bridge, +1 Surgical - if that makes sense.
I definitely want another sweeper, because that's all you want to draw in the matchups that you bring them in. However I think Bridge is a less impactful SB card overall and I would advocate the extra Surgical over any of my other changes.
How much of the SFM package do you board vs Reanimator? Our SB cards are crushing but we still need a way to turn the corner - given enough time they can draw out of it.
I think people underrade sculler. A discard spell AND 2/2 for two is really good against combo decks. The issue when you meet combo is either you don't have discruption OR get the presure. Tidehollow does it both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
But I think I will slide in two Hymn next time I play the deck.
This is probably true, however Hymn is a more powerful card over all, it;Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
Is a 2-for-1 therefore plays into our attrition plan;
Supplements our Wastes for more powerful mana denial;
Can be imprinted if you're playing 2-3 Mox and helps make up for the card disadvantage/tempo loss;
Is better against resource intensive combo decks (however obviously worse vs SnS, arguably the best combo deck in the format);
Better with Surgical.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
Sculler also exiles, which is super relevant in Legacy. Storm, Lands, and Reanimator variants all want access to their graveyard. Against Storm, it can slow down the Past in Flames plan. Against reanimator you don't have to take their reanimator effect (like with Thoughtseize), you can just take the Griselbrand/fatty. Taking a lands player off of Loam can sometimes buy you multiple turns. FYI, big Sculler fan lol.
I tried moving council's to the board and immediately missed having it. There have been a number of game 1s ive had to scoop because i knew i didn't have that catch all answer. Its so good vs planeswalkers, mother of runes, True Name, equipment, and a slew of other cards that are huge problems when they hit the table. I definitely will be re-mainboarding 1-2 of them.
As for Gideon of the Trials, i consider him nearly untouchable in the main after a few weeks of testing. That card does so much heavy lifting for me. Its a maze of ith that can swing for 4 (or more if you voltron him up) buy you extra turns or win outright vs combo, stops sword of fire and ice from wrecking your board, and makes repeating damage sources like chandra and ajani vengeant less imposing just to name a few. I think its one of the best swiss army knives in the deck.
Some of that may just be my play style, since i like to run CJ, Gideon, and Collective Brutality main i guess i like having a plan for everything game one.
I find WW extremely difficult to maintain vs Delver, this makes me very hesitant to run 2-3 WW spells main. Do you play in a Delver heavy meta?Quote:
Originally Posted by Notion Thief
Hello all. I have a bigger version of Dead Guy that runs Rhino and Kaya instead of souls and brutality. I went 4-0 at my shop last night against manaless dredge, grixis delver, aluren, and eldrazi. Kaya was the MVP by making a huge impact every time she hit the board. Even got her and Lili at the same time, felt good. I'm not the biggest fan of my sideboard but I posted it anyway.
Land (20)
4x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
1x Savannah
3x Scrubland
3x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Creature (19)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Siege Rhino
4x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Tidehollow Sculler
Sorcery (9)
2x Council's Judgment
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
1x Toxic Deluge
Instant (4)
4x Swords to Plowshares
Planeswalker (5)
1x Gideon of the Trials
1x Kaya, Ghost Assassin
3x Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard (15)
1x Ashen Rider
2x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Zealous Persecution
Heading to a small local unsanctioned event with Deadguy. I'll be trying out some recently discussed things.
list:
19 Land
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Bayou
3 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
12 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
29 Spells
2 Chrome Mox
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kosilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Collective Brutality
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Bitterblossom
4 Swords to Plowshears
1 Vindicate
Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Zealous Persicution
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Crucible of Worlds
Comments:
I've been a big fan of Tidehollow Sculler so the recent discussion of Collective Brutality in that slot has me intrigued. I'm trying the swap to see if I can glean anything.
I added Chome Mox, which I never really played, as recent results seem to speak strongly for it. The swap from Sculler to Brutality helped alleviate some apprehension on that well. Cut to 21 mana sources from 22.
That's what's new for me. The rest should be within range of stock but I'm happy to comment on any specific choices. Wish me luck and for a good turnout. I'll do my best with notes/report. =]
Jain_mor: Yeah I can understand wanting the sideboard cards to be bombs rather than just utility. I feel a decent chunk of my sideboard does that. And I feel Brutality in the board helps plenty of matchups from Storm to a deck like Burn.
CptHaddock: I only really board in Sanctum Prelate vs UR Delver (out of the Delver variants). I feel this version has the most 1 drop non-creature spells out of the lot. I've won a couple of games vs UR delver. Naming 1.
Sidenote: So my backup deck right now is black white Bomberman. And I recently watched a SCG match which was Trios that covered Bomberman vs Death and Taxes. Matthias Hunt and Ryan Overturf joked that Bomberman might be mistake for a weird Deadguy Ale deck. Those were the same guys that called my deck Abzan Stoneblade at SCG Worcester. So they did know what the actual deck name was...or i guess figured it out later on.
My meta is very delver-light. I dont run hymn so lili is my only BB card, so i often play a swamp and plains for my first two land drops so i can fetch for a scrub and play whatever i want even through wasteland. Deathrite helps too. I havent found WW that bad, probably because indont run a lot of BBQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Boltagon
I used to run a pretty similar main board. Any reason for no Bayou or just cost effectiveness? Kaya is a beast if they cant kill her in one shot, and plays really nice with rhino . Ive found thalia and walkers awkward at times due to mana constraints, but she definitely is great mainboard vs storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamhams
Hard to comment on the board without knowing the meta, but 2 priest, 2 canonist, 2 zealous is where most of mine start. I favor surgical over macabre personally but it deepends what flavor of graveyard deck you run into most often. How is SoFaF working for you? I tend to prefer light and shadow in my board, as equipment is usually a bit slow against decks where the discard of feast and famine matters.
Thalia can be awkward and I have had to not play her right away to cast my other spells, but there are some storm players so it is hard to take her out as a 1 of. As for the Bayou, it is mostly because of cost but im not sure if Bayou would increase my win % that much anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Notion Thief
I do like me some Feast & Famine since there is a strong elf and bug presence in my LGS. The reanimators here also have a lot of angels so I find the macabres are better there since it doesn't cost any mana to cast so I can do it on turn 0 even with the trigger.