[Deck] Aggro Loam

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Originally Posted by Aberosh1819

Played against Chase in Round 6 with 73/75 cards that you did, and went down 1-2. Had him G3 with T0 Leyline of the Void, T1 Chalice on 1, and proceeded to durdle without pressure until he recovered with his Singleton Echoing Truth to start going to work.

Didn't feel good.

Also managed two losses to Merfolk on the day. How do we beat their combination of fast pressure and disregard for Chalice?

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What did your 75 look like? How many copies of Deluge did you run?

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Originally Posted by Nocley

I think that was one of the first things I said - "About time someone got this deck on the radar in US, instead of everyone giving me crap for playing non-blue". Though that does mean not as many opponents which have no idea of what level I'm interacting with them on, but hopefully this helps get some more people playing this against the Delver menace.

As for Stage/DD combo, I love it. It steals so many wins, and I'm never really at the point where I worry about the loss of the two other lands (Trimmed 2 Heaths for them). I think there was one hand I had to mulligan because DD didn't produce mana and I really needed a second mana land, but that was it, and I won that many more games by being able to race a TNN or a Gurmag Angler by going over the top. The reason I like it is that most opponents will have much more interaction with the GY and the KotRs, and when they get removed, it's very easy for the opposing creatures to just go and win the race. I'll talk about this more in the report, I believe I had only 7 games won off the Combo, so it's not that much, but at least 3 of those I know I would not have won if I didn't combo when I did.



Looks like I messed up during the copy-paste, even though other messages I sent with that list link went through. But it was linked above.

I want to add the Second Deluge and Pulse, even though amusingly I never cast Deluge or E. Plauge all tournament. But really what it comes down to is that I want a -2/-2 against DnT or Elves, and E. Plague against DnT is actually pretty crappy when you take into account that every creature MD is a Human. The other uses for Plague are to shut off Delver, Young Pyromance, and Mentor, but the first two I feel the matchups are already really good against and Pulse is brought in against Miracles anyways to remove Jace, so it can also just do a E. Plague impression and kill all the Monks (though only once, but typically I find that's all you need to get ahead)


Also, notes on my SB cards and how much I cast them (which may show that the SB is completely wrong, or my matchups are just all over the place to care):
Thoughtseize - 1
Leyline - 5 (3 Turn 0, 2 Hardcast)
Thalia - 3
Garruk - 1
Deluge - 0
Charm - 2
Plague - 0
Choke - 2
Slaughter Games - 0 (Got hit by discard twice against Aluren/Storm)
Rec Sage - 2
Priest - 3

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How do you side Vs the tier 1 (like Miracles, Sultai etc...)? With the corrected side... :confused:

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Originally Posted by kungfugeek

What did your 75 look like? How many copies of Deluge did you run?

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Main deck was essentially the same as above (Thespian's Stage / Dark Depths).

Worst beating was dealing 10 to myself with Bob flips (2x Liliana / Abrupt Decay / Punishing Fire killed me), leaving them to only need 10 to win is a bad spot.

Boarded:
+2 Golgari Charm
+1 Toxic Deluge
+1 Containment Priest
-4 Chalice of the Void

Had 4x Abrupt Decay / 3x Punishing Fire main

Didn't have Engineered Plague in the board because I frankly didn't consider the Merfolk match-up, and was testing well against Elves w/o it (Chalice / Charm / Deluge was more than enough).

Starting to think that 2x Plagues in the board might be reasonable, or 1 Plague / 2 Deluge, but I don't like opening myself up with Deluges.

Am I doing it wrong?

I haven't had too much trouble with Merfolk, though I don't think the games I've jammed against it were against the best players on the deck. The keys to the matchup are Wasting away their Chalices, and mulliganing to removal. We are the reactive deck here, we want to be just ideally P-Firing everything away constantly to make sure they can't get 2 lords. Unlike in Modern Fish, they don't (usually) run spreading seas, so their islandwalk means nothing when we can chump with our 2/1s. With hitting their Caverns, they're actually quite vulnerable to Chalice, which is an interesting reason to possibly keep 1 or 2 in post board. That boarding sounds right though.

if you are playing depths, try just jamming knights. if one resolves you win. that's been my experiance anyway.

beyond that, the obvious. choke deluge and fast pfire is good.

I wrote 9000 words about the deck and my stories with it - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...584#post915584

Maybe it's helpful? It feels like I was just ranting by the end.

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Originally Posted by Nocley

I wrote 9000 words about the deck and my stories with it - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...584#post915584

Maybe it's helpful? It feels like I was just ranting by the end.

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Excellent write, I read the whole thing and enjoyed it. thanks! Quick question, why do you not bring leyline in against Storm? Am I doing it wrong?

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Originally Posted by kungfugeek

Excellent write, I read the whole thing and enjoyed it. thanks! Quick question, why do you not bring leyline in against Storm? Am I doing it wrong?

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That may be very much the correct plan, taking out the leftover removal (as a friend said to my report "Your SB is just wrong if Fires are still in postboard"). I'll never mulligan to it though, and it's so feel bad if it's drawn late (Or maybe not, because hate is hate at any point against them?). I'd never mull because I need all the cards to make sure I'm disrupting at every level.

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Originally Posted by Nocley

That may be very much the correct plan, taking out the leftover removal (as a friend said to my report "Your SB is just wrong if Fires are still in postboard"). I'll never mulligan to it though, and it's so feel bad if it's drawn late (Or maybe not, because hate is hate at any point against them?). I'd never mull because I need all the cards to make sure I'm disrupting at every level.

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Awesome, thanks. I'm new to the deck, and pretty new to legacy in general. I really really love this list though. Matches my play style perfectly and feels like I have game against just about anything. Have it built in paper and slowly building it on modo as well!

Question about the Storm matchup. In G2, if you have chalice in the opener, is it better to drop it turn 1 on zero, or risk having it therapied away and try to play it on 1, turn 2?

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Originally Posted by kungfugeek

Question about the Storm matchup. In G2, if you have chalice in the opener, is it better to drop it turn 1 on zero, or risk having it therapied away and try to play it on 1, turn 2?

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Set it to zero. Not only will you feel terrible if you pass the turn and straight up lose, but they run 6-7 pieces of discard and they'll do anything in their power to prevent you from landing Thalia or Teeg or said Chalice of the Void.

Plus, Chalice@0 is generally pretty close to lethal. In games 2&3 you should certainly prefer Chalice@1 if possible in order to shut off Chain of Vapor and the cantrips that dig for Abrupt Decay, but Chalice@0 will always be a fine option.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Set it to zero. Not only will you feel terrible if you pass the turn and straight up lose, but they run 6-7 pieces of discard and they'll do anything in their power to prevent you from landing Thalia or Teeg or said Chalice of the Void.

Plus, Chalice@0 is generally pretty close to lethal. In games 2&3 you should certainly prefer Chalice@1 if possible in order to shut off Chain of Vapor and the cantrips that dig for Abrupt Decay, but Chalice@0 will always be a fine option.

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If I didn't have the Thoughtseize, Chalice@0 is probably super correct, because I need to ensure I have a hate card immediately to not just die. Because I had the Thoughtseize, and knew what was there, Chalice@1 is likely miles better, since I know that he isn't comboing next turn and it shuts off a large part of his hand. But at the same time, if he has a discard on top it's terrible.

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Originally Posted by Nocley

I wrote 9000 words about the deck and my stories with it - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...584#post915584

Maybe it's helpful? It feels like I was just ranting by the end.

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Splendid, I read every word and really enjoyed reading it! Great job and congrats again on your finish. A top 16 is certainly quite impressive and while you understandably are upset you played poorly in game 2 of round 15, it's impossible to know the final outcome even if you played the game perfectly. Chalk it up to one of those live and learn type moments I guess :smile: it's still one hell of a run making top 16 in such a huge event.

Does anyone know of a good GSZ target for the burn match up? Scavenging Ooze is ok sometimes but I don't always find that there are enough creatures in the GY to make a difference. Something like Obstinate Baloth but much cheaper...

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Originally Posted by rlesko

Does anyone know of a good GSZ target for the burn match up? Scavenging Ooze is ok sometimes but I don't always find that there are enough creatures in the GY to make a difference. Something like Obstinate Baloth but much cheaper...

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Courser of Kruphix is great vs Burn, providing a large blocker for their 2/2s and marginal life-gain while minimizing the life loss from Fetchlands. Furthermore, it has excellent synergy with Sylvan Library.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Courser of Kruphix is great vs Burn, providing a large blocker for their 2/2s and marginal life-gain while minimizing the life loss from Fetchlands. Furthermore, it has excellent synergy with Sylvan Library.

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Definitely can see the synergy with that, as well as peeking with Loam to decide dredge vs draw. My only concern is, you have to play lands to gain life off him, typically I'm not trying to play more than 1-2 nonbasics vs burn unless I can play a wasteland to save my ass. Price is just so good.

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Originally Posted by rlesko

Definitely can see the synergy with that, as well as peeking with Loam to decide dredge vs draw. My only concern is, you have to play lands to gain life off him, typically I'm not trying to play more than 1-2 nonbasics vs burn unless I can play a wasteland to save my ass. Price is just so good.

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I played against burn recently in a big tournament. He lost his only match before the top8 to me. I played 2 courser in my 75 since I knew burn would be prevalent in the meta. He is stellar, absolutely fabulous. Blocks like a champ, comes in easily without mana restraints, gains you life and filters for removal or gas when you need it. The burn player had no choice but to kill it, then came the ooze.

If you aren't looking for a zenith target, Thalia is also great against that deck.

So I've only recently begun to play aggro loam after being a long time brainstorm aficionado. The deck has been really fun for me and I've had quite a bit of success on modo with the deck already. I'm playing nocleys list from the GP with a few changes to the sb not having access to containment priest and I've seen a lot of people on this forum mentioning miracles as the single best matchup for aggro loam. I kid you not miracles is more than 50% of my match losses online and my win percentage against the deck is something abysmal like 35%.

So in short I must be playing the matchup wrong or keeping the wrong hands or something and would really appreciate a more experienced player explaining their philosophy on the matchup to me.
SB vs miracles: +2 thalia +2 choke +1 Garruk +1 Reclamation
-2 Diamond -1 karakas -1 maze -1 scooze (-1 pfire (if entreat version)/-1 kotr (if mentor version))

I took an idea from the R/G Combo Lands deck and applied it to our Aggro Loam. I've moved Chalice to the side as a two of and upped our one drops.

Here's what I've been working on:
Creatures (13)

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Dark Confidant
3 Knight of the Reliquary

Spells (23)

4 Mox Diamond
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
2 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Liliana of the Veil

Lands (24)

1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Treetop Village
2 Bayou
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)

2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sylvan Library
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Leyline of the Void

So far I've enjoyed the changes. Plenty of early action and some ridiculous strong starts. I'm thinking of changing one of the duals over to a Badlands as red mana for multiple Fires can be hard to come by.

The sideboard is a mess right now. Still working at it. Sideboarding has been the most difficult change so far.

I've tested mostly against Elves and Shardless. Both having positive results. Not once have I missed Chalice main over the 40+ games I've trotted this version out for. It might be a while before I can hit up a local tournament, but I'll register something like this and report back.

In the meantime, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Mono-Green

I took an idea from the R/G Combo Lands deck and applied it to our Aggro Loam. I've moved Chalice to the side as a two of and upped our one drops.

Here's what I've been working on:
Creatures (13)

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Dark Confidant
3 Knight of the Reliquary

Spells (23)

4 Mox Diamond
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
2 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Liliana of the Veil

Lands (24)

1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Treetop Village
2 Bayou
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)

2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sylvan Library
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Leyline of the Void

So far I've enjoyed the changes. Plenty of early action and some ridiculous strong starts. I'm thinking of changing one of the duals over to a Badlands as red mana for multiple Fires can be hard to come by.

The sideboard is a mess right now. Still working at it. Sideboarding has been the most difficult change so far.

I've tested mostly against Elves and Shardless. Both having positive results. Not once have I missed Chalice main over the 40+ games I've trotted this version out for. It might be a while before I can hit up a local tournament, but I'll register something like this and report back.

In the meantime, what do you think?

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I am not a fan of playing the deck without chalice, but either way here goes my couple cents.
I think you need more top end, 1 Lili and 3 knights should not end the job against shardless.
It is normal that you don't miss chalice against shardless, since we board some out, against elves he is more important, but what matters is always the volume of locks.
I am not a fan of therapy in that list since you don't want to sac any creature, I would try -2 Therapy +1 Knight +1 Bob.
I would try to fit another Lili in there and possibly the DD+Stage combo.
Don't forget that if you are playing Mox diamond, it means you want to accelerate into something, since you cut chalice, try to have a good mass of 2 Drops/1 mana target for zenith.

Hope my rambling helped