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Good to know! In that case, I cannot recommend Zealous Persecution highly enough. It becomes a matter of "Do I nail him for a very solid 2-for-1 that could ruin him, or do I take a risk and wait a turn for the possibility of a blowout 3-for-1?" And if drawn late game, it just shatters stalemates against them
My problem with zealous is that it is incredibly narrow for what it does. It has applications against maverick and elves but do you bring it in against gobbos? I would prefer to use a stronger board sweeper like infest or deed. I agree that moms are the problem in the matchup but even EE is a better option to kill moms and rangers imo
I think perish or virtues rain is a stronger choice as a maverick hoser. They are not going to keep you from reaching the mana to play them so you might as well play stronger cards.
If you're serious about that, I'm listening. I've been thinking of using Infest in legacy but I had always stood by Deeds and Explosives...if this is indeed valid tech, I will be testing it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Tribal hates infest. Period. It has the added bonus of wrecking maverick and only killing your confidants( which are usually in the graveyard anyways).
You have to have a heavier black commitment for the casting cost though.
Yup. There are a lot of Gobos that are x/1s: Goblin Lackey, Mogg War Marshal, Goblin Matron, Goblin Token (Seige Gang Commander), Tin Street Hooligan...Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
It's not that it's limited to killing x/1's but that it's also able to make your bird of paradise able to kill a natural X/2. Barring Knight, Goose, Goyf and a pumped Ooze, many decks don't play larger creatures unless they're putting something MUCH larger into play.
It's also one-sided and an instant.
Fair calls, champs.
I like the Fight Bear, but would you run it main or side? Would you still cut a GSZ and add the tutor target?
If you guys had to re-tool my sideboard for a SCG Open, what would YOU make it? Teeg certainly doesn't do anything against Sneak and Show, since Show gets under Teeg.
I haven't tested Ur Burn much yet, but I know it's probably not super favourable. That's what I'm hoping the Timely's end up doing for me.
-Matt
Goblins it doesn't kill: goblin ringleader, goblin warchief, goblin piledriver, any goblin with a chieftain out, siege gang commander. Lackey after turn one doesn't count(see wasteland/being on the draw)Quote:
Originally Posted by damionblackgear
Goblins infest kills: all of them.
Elves infest kills: all of them
Merfolk infest kills: all of them( barring rediculous lord numbers)
Maverick creatures infest kills: everything except knight and grown oozes/creatures equipped with sword of x/y.
Also: kills all the same creatures zealous does plus all x/2's.
Zealous is not a bad card but I think it is too narrow barring extreme metagames(see sdematts sideboard)
So is something like this more useful/broad?
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Perish
2 Choke
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Zealous Persecution/Dread of Night/Maverick hate
Better? I realize I'm stone cold losing to Burn, but, whatever. Burn doesn't race Iona well.
-Matt
actually, 2 lords is all merfolks need (since the lords are 2/2 by their own and pump each other).Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
I need your help now... you see, I like zealous A LOT, as well as infest, but given my choice of cards to run, do you think that is wise to take away the deeds from the side and add those? Because deed fills in many roles - it's great against tribal, affinity, tokens, mud (the mana artifacts, mox, worker, wurmcoil tokens, staff), i like it. Because it is kinda slow, sometimes I think about dropping it, but then I'll have to redesign the whole sideboard....
Truth, Any pump lord does negate the spell. I'm not disagreeing with you on anything on these spells. We can't get the spell we both want (one-sided infest for less than 2cc). Instead, the choice is between the instant that doesn't kill as much, and the sorcery that kills everything (including you).Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
-Edit-
Matt, I'd play the Tracker in the board. It's not good vs enough of the format that there isn't really a place for it main. Pretty much any aggressive deck would be a good place for it to come in against.
If I had to retool your sideboard, I would cut 1-2 pieces of Graveyard hate and put 1 timely back into it and Lili's in the other slots. I think Surgical is fine and you have enough hate in the main to fight the graveyard decks (you'll be slowing them down games 2 and 3).
I'm all aboard the GSZ train right now to the point I would say to drop a library or a top and go up to 4 to ensure you draw them early and often. You already run the goyfs to power out I would drop an ooze and add the tracker main to give you tutorable removal against all of the random aggro that flocks to larger tourneys.
That being said, I think you need to expect a surge of elves players due to the last SCG with elves placing twice. Goblins has also been making a comeback as of late so swarm aggro is on the rise seeing how Merfolk Has also been rising in popularity. Engineered plauge is starting to look more and more appealing the better humans get as a tribe:/
Infest or black suns zenith could be correct calls as would bringing back the red splash for blasts/grudges and specificly pyroclasm.
For graveyard strategies I feel crypt is the stronger card to get you from start of game to an active ooze and it doesn't force you to fetch non green sources so you can get multiple activations against dredge(they can power through). It gives you a way to nuke opposing knights as well( more maverick hate to bring in over discard on the draw).
Before I get to sneak and show I will say that uw miracle is making a splash so you cannot be cold to counterbalances at all. You should have 4 GSZ to play around balances and re find your creatures but grips might be needed if you get a feeling for the could be popular land tax powered Quinn deck that has been under the radar.
Surgical extraction/extirpate have uses outside of recursion in the combo/miracle/sneak matchups when paired with discard, seems good.
I feel that burn is a good deck to be cold against right now as there are other budget decks that are on the up and up right now.
Finally, sneak and show. The best card I have found for The sneak and show matchup: smallpox is a beating against them but is mostly unplayable in other matchups. Hitting their land, hand and life total attacks them on all fronts. If you have a huge scary feeling that sneak show will be present than it might be needed but I think the deck is on the decline as reanimator is the better gristlebrand deck and only runs show and tell from the board. You can switch you planeswalker to Lilliana or side in edicts to combat reanimator.
So IMO: maindeck: -1 top -1 ooze +1 tracker +1 GSZ
And I would run a sideboard of:
2 krosan grip
2 zealous persecution/infest
1 teeg
2 EE
1 virtues rain/deed
3 todmod's crypt
3 surgical extraction
Hope any of this helps or sheds another opinion on the subject.
I didn't see a response to this question from last page. I cut it (again) when the format sped up and Ooze became a bigger part of it. I find that the Utility Wasteland is more useful now (since that's the slot it fills in my 75). I also no longer need a recurring creature but I agree, the pridemage was sweat. There was a point where I also had Sword of Light and Shadow (SoLS) and Eternal Witness (E.wit) alongside the stronghold. All have been lost (again) over time.Quote:
New question: why is volrath's stronghold left out of everyone's list? Regrowing beaters and pridemages every turn seems pretty win to me.
*Tags and shorthand are for the newer people who may not know them. We've got a lot of new names popping up and that makes me happy.
No one is running Choke against UW Miracles/RUG?
-MAtt
I'd like to run Choke. Seems great! I will try it next week.
I still haven't cut choke. I've posted my current board below.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Choke
2 Dismember
1 Timely Reinforcements
I'm also wondering if there's any point to running Grip. Is there anything right now we NEED to Grip?
-Matt
I've had great results with Consuming Vapors as a sideboard card. It isn't exactly a sweeper but it always leaves you with more than what you paid for. I really like it against RUG and UR Delver. It combines well with Darkblast and Liliana to lock down Maverick and other aggro decks.
I don't think choke can resolve in a timely enough manner or consistanly enough to matter in enough matches. They should also be antisideboarding for choke and attempting to counter it at all turns.
Against rug, if you get to the point in the game where you can resolve a choke and are not dead on the board or praying to not get burned out, you should have already won. Grip is increasingly needed as humility has become a real card in the miracle sideboards and you are going to be cold to it.ono-white will be making a showing for the next couple weeks until everyone gets their hearts filled with land tax love.
Grip is going to kill counterbalances in the miracle matchup as well. Which can be a bitch to play around as a rock player.
I feel that if you assign yourself as the aggro deck and drop beaters and teeg you should be able to get there more often then not.
It's true. The Miracle deck's counterbalance can be annoying but, it's not the end of the world. I don't think you need Krosan Grip to beat it. Pulse and Vindicate are typically enough. If you have the GSZ in your list then Pridemage is also an answer. Just remember, they play 3's and 4's as well.
As far as choke goes. I find that if it lands against Canadian Thresh or pretty much any other Blue based deck, it's game over from there. An opponent who can't plays spells is pretty much dead on board.
-Edit-
New Example video going up with this weeks videos (Should finish uploading today). How to Beat an in play Griselbrand.
1x Kitchen Finks in your SB will improve your burn MU significantly. It's the perfect GSZ target for vs Burn. And it's not a wasted SB slot, as Finks is a nightmare for RUG and BUG. IMO, Uvenwald tracker is WICKED unnecessary in your list. You already run a large amount of removal. Here's how I would change that SB:Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
-1 Tracker, -2 undecided Mav hate slot
+1 Finks, +1 Dread of Night, +1 Teeg or Timely (depending on if you expect Storm combo or burn)
This setup still leaves you a gazillion ways to deal with Maverick (Dread, Perish, Deeds, EE, even Finks if you want) and buoys some of your weak points
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@ daimon: I believe we discussed this before, but I don't remember your answer. You play 2 Dismember in your board. I don't understand why they're there. Now normally, at a certain point, you just gotta go with what you like for SB, but given how tight we are for SB space, I'd really like to understand the reasoning behind your choice (Especially that you play plenty of removal MD)
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Is anyone else having TONS of trouble beating Sneak and Show? I'm desperately trying to fit Diabolic Edicts into my SB just for that MU. very much looking forward to that video, daimon