^ this ^Quote:
Originally Posted by julian23
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^ this ^Quote:
Originally Posted by julian23
I was watching the SCG stream for a little bit this weekend and I got to see the Phillips vs Debrun(?) maverick mirror match...who wound up winning the match? It seemed that Phillips just lucked his way into the games but Deburn(?) was playing his little heart out.
Are maverick mirrors always so swingy? OMG an active Mom! Jitte! Pridemage! Knight! OOZE!!!!! it was fun to watch...
I was really afraid of the mirror so I would've definitely played Linvala if I had one :) She's hard to come by around here for some reason. However I was the only Maverick player in the tournament and I didn't have to face any elves so it didn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by maktus
Sigarda did absolutely nothing in the whole tournament, I think I saw her just once and it was a completely irrelevant draw. I play her because I heard she is good vs mirror, also there is a pox and nic fit decks in my local meta and she is decent against both (not as good vs pox as it sounds because 5 mana is a tall order, but still ok and automatic win if she resolves).
I haven't got Linvala as well, I had her but traded her (and 2 other angels) for my second Ooze :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename55
I've been playing Sigarda in testing and she seems very good in the grindy matches like Nic fit and the mirror but she's also an extra out to Emrakul (if you have maze) or she gives us that little extra time you need to find karakas.
I was wondering what u guys board vs. UW stoneblade? I've been using Choke, Life from the Loam, Revoker and sometimes Stony Silence but it's still a hard matchup, any advice?
Is Sublime Archangel worth testing vs aggro match up in place of Linvala??? Opinion???
If you use stoneforge play manriki-gusari, or use Tower of the Magistrate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban
Worth testing? Yes, definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by TarmoX
Do I expect it to be awesomely brilliant? No, definitely not.
Still, it has a very nice effect that could end teh game quickly.
The new Ajani also needs testing.
Great potential, though perhaps not necessarily an improvement to current builds.
Btw, new stuff+ideas always need some testing, if you would like to not be the last to find out something is very good. I personally have very little time to test, but if I would have the time, I'd be testing Ajani right now. That guy looks to have the greatest potential for Mav. A 4 mana creature looks less urgent. One can always play Elspeth in that slot and win game after game because of her. Bad synergy with Thalia and Teeg though...
Please stop suggesting nontutorable 1ofs that should improve special MUs. All these white flashy Angels or whatever are not worth putting in, unless you put a sufficent amount of them in, which hardly any1 does.
Ajani is different. Ajani is not there for special MUs, it's mostly a new addition to the deck itself, making it more aggresive and explosive. Do we need this? I honestly doubt it. Ive been doing some testing with the list I posted earlier that week and I am pretty happy with it. One of the most stable decks I've been playing with latley. It's well geared for pretty much every MUs but SneakAttack, but I expect Griselmator to beat it most consitently, as a conclusion to it, it's better to be geared for Griselmator.
I would really suggest you guys to play a stock list (again) and leave all these flashy cool looking not tutorable creatures.
Greetings
They're tutorable if you're using fauna shaman...Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
What are your feelings on Sylvan Library? I get that it's supposed to help the control matchup, but would those slots be better filled with planeswalkers or more threats?
I see a lot of people run 1-2 of them and with no way to tutor for them, they always stick out as the first cuts. Am I looking at this the wrong way?
Thanks in advance.
Sylvan Library is card advantage. Outside of Horizon Canopy, it's this deck's only way to draw extra cards. It also provides a filtering effect, especially with fetch lands, GSZ or Fauna Shaman.
As you stated, Sylvan Library is for the control match to gain card advantage and to draw more threats. But it is also for the combo match to find our lock pieces. Against control and combo match ups, you should be paying life to draw extra cards off of Sylvan Library.
The only place Library is really bad is in the Aggro match-ups. The match-ups where they want to get you from 20 to 0 as quickly as possible. Even then, it may be worth it for the filtering. However, you probably don't want to pay 4 life very often.
Prox a deck with a slow clock or test the mirror. Sylvan Library with one of the gems in this deck. Every STP on a big creature equals in a free card. Jitte trnasforms into card drawing (if theres nothing better to do ;) ). They are pretty awesome most of the time, even more if your opponent is on blue.
--> especially if he's on blue. Sylvan Library is good vs all kinds of decks, all that do not want to race you right away. If Canadian Threshold isn't having the Delver+Burn hand you can use the draw 2/3 for brutal cardadvantage too. The other things have already been mentioned. Other than being good vs Blue it's always some kind of a mirrorbreaker too, it's pretty much everything the deck lacks --> library manipulation, cardadvantage....Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackStarDeceiver
@Fizban: Fauna Shaman...urgh... I forgot people are playing this slow piece of.... jam! Excuse me then. All my statements have the exception that they are not aimed at the Fauna Shaman builds.
Greetings
2x Sylvan Library should be a minimum if you want to actually win games consistently. I notice this thing where tournament winning reports, even if they're running only one Library, always include lots of games where said Library was drawn. Maybe more people would win tournaments with the deck if they played more.
This should be in the site banner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Running lucky one ofs is miserable deck building.
GSZing for a Fauna Shaman to get get a Linvala is miserably slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban
Also just cut those two slots for Parallax Wave, it's just as good in the mirror and way better against Reanimator/Sneak and Show.
Stop telling people about good cards like Parallax Wave.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
OT: How strong is the Loyal Retainers combo in the deck with Fauna Shaman? I was thinking about playing Ben Stark's list with the change of:
-1 Thalia
-1 Pridemage
+1 Loyal Retainers
+1 Elesh Norn
Sylvan Library is brilliant. Definite 2-of. The mirror is often won by the player who could stick his Library, and control decks just die to it. I once outdrew (and then beat) my opponent who had Jace 2.0 on the table for two turns already.
I personally really dislike the Retainers idea. Both cards in the combo are terrible on their own, and Fauna Shaman must connect to get it working. Last time I checked, Fauna Shaman was the first dude to die from random removal my opponents had.
Wrong. Only retainers is bad on its own. Elesh Norn is not difficult to cast in mid-game having a couple of manadorks or Gaea's Cradle. And it instantly wins the "already lost" games against all kinds of aggro decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
As to Fauna Shaman, you can say the same about every other creature in your deck. Yes, the creatures die to removal, but is it new? The thing is, that they usually need to kill your mother of runes/thalia/kotr/ooze/gaddock, depending on what you are playing against. Then you land fauna shaman and search for the most troublesome creature for your opponent. Usually this is the way you win with shaman. They kill what is dangerous for them, you find another one with shaman. Ok, if they have a fistful of removal, they just kill every creature, but that's the game.
Also sylvan library is even more important if you are playing with shaman, cause you need extra creatures to utilize. 2 is the quantity.
It's impossible for me to be wrong if I mention that I personally really dislike something, but I understand your argument. Drop the nasty stuff, they kill it, then land Shaman and hope it sticks.
About Elesh Norn being good without Shaman and Retainers: I disagree here. I stopped playing Batterskull a very long time ago, despite everyone back then insisting I should play it, because it would just sit in my hand while I was stuck on 4 land. Swords and Jittes were just better. This counts even more for a CMC 7 dude. No Cradle or 7 mana-makers and it just sits there in your hand sucking big time.
But let's break up the meta for a sec, because stuff is only as good as it's opposition let's it be. In my meta here in The Netherlands, we mostly see RUG Thresh, Sneak+Show, UW/EsperBlade, Stormcombo, Maverick. Other decks that see play are Reanimator, BUG Control, Burn, Dredge and some Zoo. The rest really sees almost no play at all.
Retainers+Elesh is good against:
- Mirror (little removal, sweeps the board nicely)
- UW/EsperBlade (time to get to 7 mana - does get Jace-bounced though)
- BUG Control (same as StoneBlade)
- Dredge, if you have the time to set it up
Bad against:
- RUG TempoThresh (you NEVER reach 7 mana, Shaman just dies)
- Storm (WAY too slow)
- Sneak&Show (same)
- Burn (same)
- Reanimator (same)
Zoo I don't really know. You usually die before getting to 7 mana, and they have lots of removal for the Shaman, but if Elesh gets there it's an auto-win. Also I haven't tested this matchup. Ever. People who like Zoo tend to play Mav now, it seems. Me including by the way. :)
What does your analysis look like?
I agree with that. But I have to add the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
In my experience the good match ups without retainer+elesh package are:
- UW/EsperBlade
- BUG variations
- RUG
- merfolk
- affinity
the 50/50 are:
- mirror
- zoo
- dredge
- Sneak&Show
the negatives:
- nic-fit/reccuring nightmare
- tes/ant/belcher
- reanimator
- burn/ u/r delver
- elves
After including elesh norn package the match up table looks like this:
Good:
- UW/EsperBlade
- BUG variations
- RUG
- merfolk
- affinity
- mirror
- zoo
- nic-fit/reccuring nightmare
50/50:
- dredge
- Sneak&Show
negative:
- tes/ant/belcher
- reanimator
- burn/ u/r delver
- elves
As you can see the good match ups remain there, but there are less bad and average match ups. Also merfolks and affinity become even more easy to beat. Though rug is a lit bit harder than it was because of 2 weak cards (elesh+retainer) in the first game, but the match up is still good. Against most of the bad match ups that remain bad there is no difference, bacause you can't really beat elves, reanimator and storm combo without sb. Burn and u/r burn for me was always about the number of mystics and proper equipment package. For those with high luck you can steal games against elves and dredge if you live until turn 4 in 1st game.
This works for an average metagame with high amount of uw/esper, rug and maverik, what I believe will be the case at GP Ghent.
I have pretty horrible experiences with the Affinity matchup.
Lost without ever having a chance.
How come you rate that a good matchup?
By your calculation we improve these matchups:
- Zoo
- Nic Fit
- The Mirror
- Merfolk
At the expense of sometimes having dead cards, thus worsening your average game.
And Zoo and Merfolk I rarely encounter these days. Nic Fit to me looks more like a flavour of the week than a serious contenter in the long run. The interesting thing is the improvement of the mirror. My question stands: is this really worth it? Let alone investing $100+ on a Retainer...