Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jhport12
At 4:15 or thereabouts, you play 4 lands in one turn. You play Grove (1) , then Heath (2) and crack it for Taiga, you then play Foothills (3), cast Loam for the Misty and Heath and then play the Heath (4) for the second time that turn.
You start the Turn with two lands in play and end with SIX.
I am going to assume this was a mistake on your part. I definitely make mistakes about how many lands I have played in a turn only to have my opponent correct me. It's cost me a game or two by giving free information about the land that I now have in my hand because I couldn't actually play it.
But man, I am shocked that the announcers, your opponent, and any nearby spectators or judges didn't see you do that!
I watched it again and it was defiantly rough. I have no idea why I did that. I know my opponent pretty well and we were shooting the shit during our match the whole time and thats probably where I lost track of things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
supremePINEAPPLE
After listening for a few minutes I'm not surprised that those commentators were missing things...
I personally had to get into the habit of announcing my land drops to prevent myself from doing that too often after playing in easy-mode on MTGO for too long.
I certainly need to improve on that.
I'm usually pretty good about it, but I certainly can improve after watching a camera match. I have never been on camera before, so watching from the other side, seeing lines of play and how I can become better is defiantly a motivating factor for me.
The Blecher match the constant loaming with thicket was very draining. That depths did not want to show up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
I use beads, moving them on and off my Explorations as I make land drops. Just to stop arguments.
Might have to try this.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
you could have played a little tighter. It wouldn't have changed the outcome in this circumstance though.
You had multiple turns with one or two stages in play while chasm was out and you let it drop. In order to replay chasm it takes both land drops. you could have copied with stage intermittently to build your board up while not paying life at all. Loam back 2nd stage and play 2 lands and repeat, building up a land a turn.
But like I said, wouldn't have changed the problem of the hidden dark depths.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
heckler
you could have played a little tighter. It wouldn't have changed the outcome in this circumstance though.
You had multiple turns with one or two stages in play while chasm was out and you let it drop. In order to replay chasm it takes both land drops. you could have copied with stage intermittently to build your board up while not paying life at all. Loam back 2nd stage and play 2 lands and repeat, building up a land a turn.
But like I said, wouldn't have changed the problem of the hidden dark depths.
I totally agree. My thought process was just finding Dark Depths. Must have loamed like 12 times before I found it.
I think going forward I'm going to flip my Explorations upside down when I use the extra land of Exploration. (Similar to when elves players flip Wirewood Symbiote when they use the bounce effect.)
Also thanks to everyone in the thread for all the tips. Gonna continue to practice to get better and keep doing well!
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UnsungHero
I think going forward I'm going to flip my Explorations upside down when I use the extra land of Exploration. (Similar to when elves players flip Wirewood Symbiote when they use the bounce effect.)
That's actually a really good idea, going to copy it!
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chatto
That's actually a really good idea, going to copy it!
Yup. Stolen.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
took lands to a small local tournament this past weekend, top prize was a dual + store credit, ended up intentional second
2-0 against like a homebrew mono black depths/reanimator deck
2-0 against infect
2-1 against Belcher
drew into top 4 against storm
top 4
2-0 vs infect
finals was me vs storm, he offered all the credit if he could take the dual and head home, snap took that offer
the store is gonna try running it back every weekend so maybe I'll dodge storm a little better next time
Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
First time out with Lands at SCG Worcester this past weekend. Finished 11-4 after a disappointing day 2.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=105125
Matchups:
R1: W G/B Hexmage depths (1-0)
R2: L Sneak/Show with Omni (1-1)
R3: W Maverick (2-1)
R4: W U/R delver (3-1)
R5: W Shardless BUG (4-1)
R6: W Shardless BUG (5-1)
R7: W Miracles with md Back to Basics (6-1)
R8: W Grixis Delver (7-1)
R9: W Jund (8-1)
R10: W Infect (9-1)
R11: L Lossett's Miracles (9-2)
R12: L Infect (9-3)
R13: W Tenjum's shardless-less BUG control (10-3)
R14: L Reanimator (10-4)
R15: W Eldrazi (11-4)
Quick thoughts:
- At the player meeting I made the last minute change of -Fetchland +Karakas, freeing up a sideboard slot for a second Boil. I was immediately punished with a bunch of Combo + Manabond + Karakas hands that I had to mulligan.
- Tireless Tracker was embarrassingly bad all weekend. I made 25-30 clues and cracked none of them, because porting my opponent was always a better use of mana. If I played a similar card in the future, I would splash for Confidant (thinking 4 Fetch/2 Taiga/1 Forest with a Bayou somewhere in the 75, likely boarded)
- Either Portal or 2nd Thicket can probably go in favor of a Ghost Quarter or a Bayou (if I end up splashing Confidant)
- Playing Boseiju main like Kevin did seems kind of crazy, but it looks like a much better plan to beat miracles than having Goblin Roughrider anywhere in your deck.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bfeingersh
First time out with Lands at SCG Worcester this past weekend. Finished 11-4 after a disappointing day 2.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=105125
Matchups:
R1: W G/B Hexmage depths (1-0)
R2: L Sneak/Show with Omni (1-1)
R3: W Maverick (2-1)
R4: W U/R delver (3-1)
R5: W Shardless BUG (4-1)
R6: W Shardless BUG (5-1)
R7: W Miracles with md Back to Basics (6-1)
R8: W Grixis Delver (7-1)
R9: W Jund (8-1)
R10: W Infect (9-1)
R11: L Lossett's Miracles (9-2)
R12: L Infect (9-3)
R13: W Tenjum's shardless-less BUG control (10-3)
R14: L Reanimator (10-4)
R15: W Eldrazi (11-4)
Quick thoughts:
- At the player meeting I made the last minute change of -Fetchland +Karakas, freeing up a sideboard slot for a second Boil. I was immediately punished with a bunch of Combo + Manabond + Karakas hands that I had to mulligan.
- Tireless Tracker was embarrassingly bad all weekend. I made 25-30 clues and cracked none of them, because porting my opponent was always a better use of mana. If I played a similar card in the future, I would splash for Confidant (thinking 4 Fetch/2 Taiga/1 Forest with a Bayou somewhere in the 75, likely boarded)
- Either Portal or 2nd Thicket can probably go in favor of a Ghost Quarter or a Bayou (if I end up splashing Confidant)
- Playing Boseiju main like Kevin did seems kind of crazy, but it looks like a much better plan to beat miracles than having Goblin Roughrider anywhere in your deck.
Tracker is generally easier to cast and can take over a game by itself.
I guess Bob is a better card drawer but not so great at winning the game.
What matchups were you bringing tracker in for?
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
I, too, am curious to understand how you used Tireless Tracker and under what circumstances it was underwhelming.
I played Lands at SCG Worcester and went 6-3, missing out on Day Two. But I had one game against Miracles where the power of Tireless Tracker was pretty clear.
Sadly I wasn't able to win the game, but it took two Monastery Mentors to protect my opponent from my Tracker after a few hard hits knocked him on his heels. If I had gotten better draws off of sacrificing Clues, I might have made Day Two.
I have found that Tracker is good in match-ups like Miracles, Karakas and/or Reliquary Knight decks, and other grindy decks. I don't bring it in for Shardless right now, because that's already a good matchup. That said, Tracker feels very good for any matchup where Games 2-3 I will be expecting heavy graveyard hate AND they don't plan to win with Tendrils or cheating a big creature into play (Reanimator/Sneak Attack).
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
I still disagree about Feingersh re: tireless tracker.
Dude, the card is a great backup engine.
'- Tireless Tracker was embarrassingly bad all weekend. I made 25-30 clues and cracked none of them, because porting my opponent was always a better use of mana.'
I can't say for sure that this is the case, but if you have tracker living and loam going, it doesn't even matter if it's in your deck or not, yeah.
Also, Feingersh should just concede that I'm right after losing the finals of the mtgo PTQ with my deck : P
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Let me ask you something.
I realized that Geier Reach Sanitarium (The loot Mikokoro) sinergizes with Chains of Mephistopheles.
Anyone toying with the black splash thinks it's playable?
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
2, T: Each player draws a card, then discards a card.
How does it combo with Chains? Chains only ever lets someone draw their drawstep card, anything else (even you, on the opponent's turn) don't get anything without discarding first.
And if you dredged Loam with the draw trigger while hellbent, you'd discard Loam anyway.
Just using it to trash their hand? It does make a halfway decent impression of Raven's crime in that case, but seems slow. What would you use it against, Miracles?
The card does seem good to give you an option of taking your natural draw every turn to look for Gambles/Crops instead of desparately Loaming.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claymore
How does it combo with Chains?
If you use this ability on your opponent's draw step, they will discard up to two cards. On an empty hand, they will discard the card they drew for their turn, making a "soft lock". Also, Dredging a Loam isn't a draw since it's a replacement effect, so you can do this trick to avoid your own Chains.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Chains is bad. I tried it and can not be bothered looking for my rant. In short, it doesn't work here because your not putting a clock down fast enough to make it effective. A person facing it can just take a few extra turns before they kill you.
We have better options. This new interaction is cute, that's all.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
I also haven't had great use of tireless tracker. I've found that boseiju is usually enough plus a chalice to weaken their lock pieces that miracles has if it's even necessary along with a ghost quarter. I've cut my riftstone portal entirely as I think having a land that does something good in play is better. One thing I have to say is that although tracker comes down on 3 I find that I'm using mana for other means once the clues are produced, and the card advantage potential simply doesn't materialize. Also it's nearly useless in other match ups I've found. I think prime time is still where we want to be if we are siding in a creature as its use is better against more decks and if it ever gets to attack there's almost nothing that will bring an opponent back unless they were going to win to begin with.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croprot
I also haven't had great use of tireless tracker. I've found that boseiju is usually enough plus a chalice to weaken their lock pieces that miracles has if it's even necessary along with a ghost quarter. I've cut my riftstone portal entirely as I think having a land that does something good in play is better. One thing I have to say is that although tracker comes down on 3 I find that I'm using mana for other means once the clues are produced, and the card advantage potential simply doesn't materialize. Also it's nearly useless in other match ups I've found. I think prime time is still where we want to be if we are siding in a creature as its use is better against more decks and if it ever gets to attack there's almost nothing that will bring an opponent back unless they were going to win to begin with.
It's good to get many different perspectives. I suspect there might be a difference in how the people who like Tireless Tracker are using it. Not that people who don't like Tracker are using it wrong, per se.
I have been Blood Moon'd by more than one Miracles deck lately, so Boseiju doesn't help there. Also Boseiju doesn't help you when your Loams have been Extracted or Rest in Peace'd (and you don't always have a Tranquil Thicket in hand to protect it). Overcoming Counterbalance is only Hurdle #1, I have found, when it comes to fighting Miracles.
Tireless Tracker is a different attack vector that can come out much sooner than Primeval Titan while also avoiding graveyard hate. If you have better things to do than sacrifice a Clue, then you are clearly in a good position. I've been in plenty of games, however, where having a Clue to crack would have been a godsend. It's also nice to force Miracles to deal with a 7/6 Tracker with their single Terminus or Swords, freeing us up to drop a Marit Lage.
Trackers can also be useful against Reliquary Knight decks, which is a tough matchup where card advantage matters. Boseiju, not so much.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
I notice a handful of players only put 3 Dark Depths in their main, leaving a 4th in their board. I'm curious to know what match-ups you bring the 4th Dark Depths in for?
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Any deck you need to be faster against. You bring it in when your racing.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
Any deck you need to be faster against. You bring it in when your racing.
Thank you for the response. I guess I wasn't very clear with my question. Why someone sideboards in a 4th Dark Depths (i.e., to be faster) was not the question I was asking. I was looking more specifically to learn which specific match-ups. As in, an actual list of archetypes (Storm, Sneak, Miracles, etc.).
Under your rubric of needing to be faster, what then would be the decks you feel you need to be faster against? For example, are you saying that you would bring in a 4th Depths for Storm, Sneak & Show and/or Elves? Any others?
I'm trying to understand the relative value of having one less combo piece main-deck in every game 1 in order to fit a different card (e.g., Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Boseiju) in its place. I've had more than a couple games with too many Dark Depths in hand, so I appreciate that unpleasantness. That said, I've also had more than a couple games spent digging frantically for a Depths despite having 4 main.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Depths on its own does little. So when your trying to make your deck as rounded as possible, to give you the most shots at winning as possible, you want to cut the things that on their own offer minimal impact and put in those few things that can overwhelming help.
After sideboard your looking at being more streamlined. It's post side that cards that slow you down get removed and you push your deck more in a given direction, be it more control, more combo or answering expected sideboard threats. This is where the other Depths comes in.
A card like Bog helps against Tarmogoyf, Reanimator, Snapcaster, opposing Loams, ANT, Infect (Delve) and other such decks.
Karakas helps against SnT, DnT, Reanimator (if they are foolish) the mirror, some builds of Miracles and other such things. Though personally I don't have one in my 75, if going to a large event I would likely have one main.
So the question is what do you want to sure yourself up against for Game one? Personally, I have nothing but praise for Bog main. As for Depths in the side? I would rather something else but it's there for when you become streamlined. The main is "The Jack of all Trades" in it's most optimal build. The sideboard makes it "The Master of some".
