[Deck] GW/x Maverick

Couldn't play this weekend....could not drive more than 2 blocks before turning back. Weather is a thing in the Northeast :(

@Dark Confidant:
I've run him throughout last year in varying degrees of dark maverick. Sometimes he punishes the opponent by giving you significant CA. Other times he does as you fear: dies to removal quickly before activating.

My biggest qualm was the manabase "working" with a noticeable increase of required black mana. You must somehow pay for Bx, Gx, Wx, GWx and possibly BG (decay) in a deck that wins through mana denial/disruption. I DID have successes but also some head-scratching situations. With deck construction, I wanted a lot of fetches to mitigate potential color-screw situations but had to make many compromises. More fetches means less duals/basics/utility some of us have grown to love. Confidant also ruins your green creature total. This is why I can support the vial idea by the recent SCG list. I don't totally agree with that 75, but running Zenith would have been sub-par. In exchange of Zenith, Vial "works" with more white guys + confidant.

Then came in-game situations: Knight needed a lot more duals to fool around with in the mid- to late-game. I learned to be cognizant of what lands I had on the board at all times. You don't want to suddenly "sacrifice" a black dual only to see the next one get wasteland-ed by your opponent...etc.

I value 3 confidants = 2 sylvan library. I liked 3 confidant + 1 library the best (just due to spacing / flex slots of the list I was running at the time). Confidant almost requires you run 3-4 DRS and 2-3 duals. I would suggest 3 (2 bayou, 1 scrub as my sweet spot). He's awful in a room full of removal, combo (does nothing), and burn (UR delver, the now-defunct TC delver especially). If you want to dream big: work out a list that's human heavy so you can somehow abuse Cavern. The SCG list with Vial is also a good route to go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warden

Couldn't play this weekend....could not drive more than 2 blocks before turning back. Weather is a thing in the Northeast :(

@Dark Confidant:
I've run him throughout last year in varying degrees of dark maverick. Sometimes he punishes the opponent by giving you significant CA. Other times he does as you fear: dies to removal quickly before activating.

My biggest qualm was the manabase "working" with a noticeable increase of required black mana. You must somehow pay for Bx, Gx, Wx, GWx and possibly BG (decay) in a deck that wins through mana denial/disruption. I DID have successes but also some head-scratching situations. With deck construction, I wanted a lot of fetches to mitigate potential color-screw situations but had to make many compromises. More fetches means less duals/basics/utility some of us have grown to love. Confidant also ruins your green creature total. This is why I can support the vial idea by the recent SCG list. I don't totally agree with that 75, but running Zenith would have been sub-par. In exchange of Zenith, Vial "works" with more white guys + confidant.

Then came in-game situations: Knight needed a lot more duals to fool around with in the mid- to late-game. I learned to be cognizant of what lands I had on the board at all times. You don't want to suddenly "sacrifice" a black dual only to see the next one get wasteland-ed by your opponent...etc.

I value 3 confidants = 2 sylvan library. I liked 3 confidant + 1 library the best (just due to spacing / flex slots of the list I was running at the time). Confidant almost requires you run 3-4 DRS and 2-3 duals. I would suggest 3 (2 bayou, 1 scrub as my sweet spot). He's awful in a room full of removal, combo (does nothing), and burn (UR delver, the now-defunct TC delver especially). If you want to dream big: work out a list that's human heavy so you can somehow abuse Cavern. The SCG list with Vial is also a good route to go.

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Your summary of Confidant/Vial made me realize that Living Wish + Vial is a sick card combination....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMagpie

Your summary of Confidant/Vial made me realize that Living Wish + Vial is a sick card combination....

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It does look nice on paper. In practice, you're very slow/vulnerable.

Hi guys. I'm getting back into magic and never had a real legacy deck before (always borrowed decks, half built them without staples or played bad jank home brews) but now that I am playing again I'm buying into maverick and I am pretty excited! I've done some testing on cockatrice (tweaking my list) and wanted to ask you guys a question.

What do you think of Sword of Light and Shadow against BUG decks?

From my experience it seems to be pretty good in that most of the times they try to use discard, counters or spot removal through destroying our creatures so I feel like in this matchup we will have something in our yard (usually) that we can get value out of the sword with.

It also turns off a lot of the spot removal and I think makes our creatures that much more resilient against them. That said they do have lillis and I've seen some play toxic deluge, depending on the build, not to say they won't have answers to a creature equipped with the sword. But I think it helps and the life gain can be relevant in grindy matchups especially if they're trying to bring the beat down with TNN.

So obviously it's not a trump card against them and the sword really shines against decks like DnT but I think it's something worth having against them.

So what do you guys think?

Thats really a side benefit. It is best used against Miracles to lock them out with Gaddock Teeg. However, it has good play against Bug. Feast and Famine is better if youre looking to break the Shardless matchup.

Hey guys, I'm going to be playing in a small SCG IQ this weekend, and I have been planning on playing either this deck or Elves. Right now I'm leaning toward Maverick because there has been a huge uptick in storm locally. My list is somewhat metagamed for my area (literally all blue combo, delver decks, and two miracles players). What do you guys think about this list?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library

4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Choke
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Containment Priest
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Scavenging Ooze

I like the list. Spirit of the Lab is obviously one of your tuned meta inclusions, but it should serve you well (people like drawing those cards).

I like running a 3rd Teeg and a 2nd Qasali in the board, but those are flexible slots.

Let us know how the IQ goes.

Anyone having an annoyance with Tasigur? I have. I'm going to try and put in a 1 of maelstrom pulse (go down to 2 abrupt decay) to deal. It overlaps nicely with removal of permanents over cmc 3 which is nice (Jace, Sneak Attack, Humility, etc.)

Do you find you're running out of Swords? Make it easy on yourself and run Paths in the board. Don't derdle around with higher mana, slower, and off colour.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

Anyone having an annoyance with Tasigur? I have. I'm going to try and put in a 1 of maelstrom pulse (go down to 2 abrupt decay) to deal. It overlaps nicely with removal of permanents over cmc 3 which is nice (Jace, Sneak Attack, Humility, etc.)

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Is Tasigur's ability really that broken? Because I'm assuming a vanilla 4/5 should be easy enough to outclass.

To be clear, we're referring to Tasigur, the Golden Fang? What does he do (and in what deck) that you can't handle? You already have access to swords/path/decay/O-ring stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warden

To be clear, we're referring to Tasigur, the Golden Fang? What does he do (and in what deck) that you can't handle? You already have access to swords/path/decay/O-ring stuff.

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Yes Tasigur, the Golden Fang. He is basically and un-abrupt Decay-able goyf that can net card advantage. My really only answer is Knight or Swords mainboard. however, he usually drops down after we're both in top deck mode. I just figure having a way to deal with him that can also clear away charbeltcher tokens, destroy a jace and sneak attack could be good for our deck. I find colorless/green/black more reasonable than double white (for Council's Judgement). My local Meta is Crazy for Bug right now. I have even gone up to 2 Scooze mainboard as a result.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

Yes Tasigur, the Golden Fang. He is basically and un-abrupt Decay-able goyf that can net card advantage. My really only answer is Knight or Swords mainboard. however, he usually drops down after we're both in top deck mode. I just figure having a way to deal with him that can also clear away charbeltcher tokens, destroy a jace and sneak attack could be good for our deck. I find colorless/green/black more reasonable than double white (for Council's Judgement). My local Meta is Crazy for Bug right now. I have even gone up to 2 Scooze mainboard as a result.

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Nothing against Maelstrom Pulse, but by the time Jace or Sneak Attack hit the table the damage is already done. Thalia/Wasteland hopefully keeps them from ever casting them at all. If you really insist on a 3cmc removal, I'd almost think Vindicate would be better. At least it's never dead and can support the denial plan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

Yes Tasigur, the Golden Fang. He is basically and un-abrupt Decay-able goyf that can net card advantage. My really only answer is Knight or Swords mainboard. however, he usually drops down after we're both in top deck mode. I just figure having a way to deal with him that can also clear away charbeltcher tokens, destroy a jace and sneak attack could be good for our deck. I find colorless/green/black more reasonable than double white (for Council's Judgement). My local Meta is Crazy for Bug right now. I have even gone up to 2 Scooze mainboard as a result.

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It's a lot easier to be armchair with this response + I haven't kept up with lists running him so I apologize. If BUG is running him as a "un-abrupt Decay-able goyf", you have options. First, Rest in Peace has always hit BUG hard in my experiences. Landing RIP disables the delve (ie; nothing to remove) and the ability of Tasgir while also nerfing DRS and Goyf. If they decay RIP that means there's one more guy in your army. Second, you can always go with Mom allowing infinite-blocking or Thalia + Karkas for the same thing. Tasgir is just a ground-n-pound dude. Third, you can utilize O-Ring or Banishing Light. This is the most widely-applicable option...as it's good against permanents you described (Jace/Sneak/Sneak Targets/etc). I agree that 3cc spells aren't the best solution, but it would be silly not to mention this as a wide "catch-all" option.

If your meta is crazy for BUG, run a ton of anti-BUG cards. 2-3x Mirran Crusaders can go the distance. Likewise, you may want to run Sword of Feast and Famine....turning DRS and Nobles into legitimate threats. If you're concerned about discard, you have choices in Lox, Baloth, or WLL (I love WLL in general). Personally, I'd opt for NO in the sideboard. I ruined people at the GP qualifiers because NO is so fast. Given BUG's limited countermagic, you can answer Tasgir with something even bigger like Progenitus (race), Ruric (cantrips and removal = 6 dmg), or Sigarda (eats delver, disables Liliana's sac). I haven't been an advocate for Choke but some top players are clearly having success with that in the SB too.

If you have Thalia and Karakas, just bounce Tasigur and attack with Thalia. He's legendary too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by evilGod

If you have Thalia and Karakas, just bounce Tasigur and attack with Thalia. He's legendary too.

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Karakas does seem like the obvious anti-Tasigur tech since you're already running it anyway (or at least, you really should be).

Why can't GWb build utilize Tasigur themselves? :eyebrow:

Not being GSZable seems like the only downside, aside from cannibalizing lands from your GY.

I don't see why Tasigur should be problematic. Most of the time he's just a Goyf, and that's a creature we can handle quite easily.

I'm thinking of uping to 2 Ooze maindeck. He's insanely good in almost all matchups, especially against RUG/BUG delver. It is a clear correlation between sticking an Ooze and starting to eat graveyards and a won game, atleast for me :)

I am so ambivalent when it comes to Decays. I really hate the taxing Talia causes and the awkward mana it requires. Still, it's such a good card but maybe it should be located in the SB?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphix

I've played configurations with Decay main and Thalia in the side (heresy right?). Either way, you can pick which one you would rather have for almost every matchup.

Decay is very powerful and I think it has a place in the 75. You may have to change your manabase a little though, I know some people just play 1 Bayou 1 Scrubland for the typical splash cards but I would add the 2nd Bayou if playing Decay as well.

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If it's in the main 60 I'd definitely want the 3rd black source, but out of the sideboard 2 is generally fine. It's also depending on whether you're running 4/1 or 3/2 DRS/Hierarchs.

As for the Tasigur discussion... what would he add? Every other 1-of in the deck is searchable. You can't GSZ him, and without an active Cradle 4 mana is a lot for one card. I'd much rather just tutor up a Sigarda or something that will actually close the game out.

Speaking of Sigarda, are people running her right now or is the six mana (including GSM cost) just too much in an environment with a good amount of Wastelands?

If they are running her, what are they cutting from Antrim/Herzog'Herzog ' s list for her?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaDitka

Speaking of Sigarda, are people running her right now or is the six mana (including GSM cost) just too much in an environment with a good amount of Wastelands?

If they are running her, what are they cutting from Antrim/Herzog'Herzog ' s list for her?

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This is the Sigarda list i have been running for a long time. The 4th deathrite for noble is interchangeable. And i built it to fight all the delver/stifle decks and combo. Casting Sigarda has almost never been a problem, however it is still bad in your opening hand just like too many Knights.

10th in Milwaukee
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12975&iddeck=95206

Creatures [24]
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes

Instants [5]
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [4]
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantments [2]
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Sylvan Library



Planeswalkers [1]
1 Garruk Relentless

Artifacts [2]
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands [22]
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Engineered Plague
1 Humility
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Life from the Loam
3 Thoughtseize

@klobster:
I recently cut Scryb Ranger, but I"m curious if they are still useful when you ran them in your deck

Currently working on my GW list. This is what I have so far. I've split the cards up into their roles instead of their card types so that I can keep track of what my deck can do instead of what cards I *feel* my deck should have.

Vanilla Maverick

Threats: 10
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Batterskull
1 Dark Depths

Disruption: 8
4 Wasteland
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg

Control: 10
4 Mother of Runes
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Maze of Ith

Utility: 6
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Courser of Kruphix

Draw Modifiers: 8
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Mana: 18
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Forest
2 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Thespian Stage

Sideboard: 15
4 Orim's Chant
2 Sylvan Library
2 Council's Judgement
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog

The three main questions I have are about Thalia, Scryb Ranger, and Courser of Kruphix. More specifically, I want to run 4 Thalia maindeck but to go to 4 Thalia I'd need to cut either Teeg, Scryb, or Courser.

Scryb Ranger + 8 exalted creatures allows me to stall the game while still dealing good damage. However, I'm not sure if Scryb Ranger is still a card worth running. A lot of people have cut him--so I wanted to know if he's worth running or not.

Courser of Kruphix provides card advantage, combos well with Sylvan, and its 4 toughness works FANTASTIC with Scryb Rangers. However, he's not stock for a reason so I don't want to be running him because he's cute despite not being strong.

Maindeck Teeg means I'm trying to not lose to combo game 1--but is that ever worth trying to do? Wouldn't 4 Thalia be better?

These are my main questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koby

@klobster:
I recently cut Scryb Ranger, but I"m curious if they are still useful when you ran them in your deck

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With flash, mother of runes, and knight there are just too many good combat tricks to not run one of these. I've flashed it in quite a few times to "counter" a waste land. Holds equipment well when opponent has a true name. Dryad "fog".

Only time I've cut it is when UR cruise delver was dominating and forked bolts were everywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMagpie

...

The three main questions I have are about Thalia, Scryb Ranger, and Courser of Kruphix. More specifically, I want to run 4 Thalia maindeck but to go to 4 Thalia I'd need to cut either Teeg, Scryb, or Courser.

Scryb Ranger + 8 exalted creatures allows me to stall the game while still dealing good damage. However, I'm not sure if Scryb Ranger is still a card worth running. A lot of people have cut him--so I wanted to know if he's worth running or not.

Courser of Kruphix provides card advantage, combos well with Sylvan, and its 4 toughness works FANTASTIC with Scryb Rangers. However, he's not stock for a reason so I don't want to be running him because he's cute despite not being strong.

Maindeck Teeg means I'm trying to not lose to combo game 1--but is that ever worth trying to do? Wouldn't 4 Thalia be better?

These are my main questions.

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On Scryb Ranger, she's awesome, but seeing 14 1 toughness creatures in the deck makes me dizzy and memories of Golgari Charm/ZP blowouts start flashing before my eyes. If you want to do this I would consider finding room for Wilt-Leaf Liege in the sideboard.

G. Teeg is your man not just against combo but against Miracles game 1 as well. You just have to evaluate how badly you want to beat these decks in game 1 and how much of a difference you think having the 1 Teeg will make. Personally I think it could matter against Storm, Miracles, and Sneak & Show. I don't think it matters against Elves because they have too much other stuff going on that we can't beat pre-board.

Have you considered cutting a Stoneforge Mystic for the 4th Thalia in the maindeck?

@TMagpie:
If I were to go vanilla, I'd run 3 equipment for sure. I don't like Courser of Kruphix too much. You also run a list without Scooze, who is usually a game-changer (especially if BUG and Goyf decks are on the rise). This is my list, which is quite boring. The main difference is that I feel I have a more balanced approach to the meta. 4 QPM and 4 SFM are excessive. I would rather have room for Scooze and Library.

ONE
4 Noble
4 Mom
4 STP
/12

TWO
4 Thalia
3 SFM (agree with @Seraphix about how to get 4x Thalia)
2 QPM (4 is too much, even for pure GW. You need something to beat face)
2 Sylvan Library
1 Teeg
1 Scooze
1 Jitte
/14

THREE+
4 KotR
4 GSZ
1 Sword of F&I
1 Sword of F&F or L&S
/10

+1 Flex [QPM #3, Sigarda, Titania, Courser, Scryb Ranger, Thrun, maindeck WLL, etc]

LANDS
8 Fetch
7 "Makes Mana" [Combination of duals and basics]
4 Wasteland
2 "Utility Package" [choice of DD/Stage or Cradle/anything]
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
/23

*The only alternative I'd consider would be to cut a SFM + an equipment in favor of 3 flex slots, which could open avenues like multiple Aven Mindcensor to deny, a crop rotation + Loam package to push DD/Stage, or a "midgame big guy" package that includes Cradle + Sigarda/Titania/Thrun. I like the 60 I listed if I, for some reason, were to venture away from the black splash.

Maverick
Chris Arebalo
15th Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 2/22/2015

// Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor

// Planeswalkers
2 Domri Rade

// Lands
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
4 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas

// Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith

// Instants
4 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares

// Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

// Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library

// Sideboard
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Choke
2 Path to Exile
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Council's Judgment
1 Bojuka Bog

:eek:

Does Anafenze, the Foremost have a place in Maverick with the small black splash?

Could be an interesting one of Green Sun's target as in this. Seems like it would be great against Dredge, Reanimator, etc.

Maybe too slow/hard to cast. Seems fun though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaDitka

Does Anafenze, the Foremost have a place in Maverick with the small black splash?

Could be an interesting one of Green Sun's target as in this. Seems like it would be great against Dredge, Reanimator, etc.

Maybe too slow/hard to cast. Seems fun though.

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I'm all about sweet tech and cool creatures, but I'm not sold on Anafenza yet.

A 4/4 for 3 with a minor buff when she attacks is not bad, and she doesn't fold to opposing yard hate which is nice. If she actually makes it to the battlefield, the "exiling creatures" effect can be very strong, albeit narrow.

There are downsides, however. Costing 3 is on the high end, and GWB is an awkward 3 for Maverick if you happen to draw it. Also noteworthy is that her yard hate effect doesn't work retroactively. Other Green Sunable targets that hate on the yard can solve a problem that arrived before they got there. Scavenging Ooze can eat important Dredge cards, or Reanimation targets that were already in the yard. Knight for Bojuka Bog similarly nukes a yard full of things that showed up a turn or 2 ago. Anafenza will only stare helplessly at the opposing yard. She might put the brakes on Dredge for a bit, but costing 3, or 4 with a Green Sun's, it feels like she will frequently be too late.

I might end up trying her, but I really don't have high hopes for her. I think Scavenging Ooze, and even Knight can fill the yard hater job better.

Hi guys,

Played this in the weekly legacy tournament (26 participants). Went 3-1 for the third week in a row.
I have recently placed my Abrupd Decays in the sideboard, which I am happy with. I like being able to board it in if a matchup really requiers it.
There are some cards that I am unsure about though:

1) Batterskull: Very seldom the SFM target of choice. I've tried with SoLaS but wasn't impressed with that neither. Maybe go down to 2 SFM and Jitte / SoFaI?
2) 5 Mana guys (BoP): Eventhough I love the bird, I am not sure it's worth it. It is great if the opponent has Deathrites of his own, and being a flyer isnt irrelivant.
3) Gaea's Cradle: I love ooze and Cradle makes this guy bananas. I think I'll switch the 2nd basic forest for a cradle. Makes the manabase a bit akward though.


CREATURES (25)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic

ENCHANTMENTS (2)
1 Sylvan Library

SORCERIES (4)
4 Green Sun’s Zenith

INSTANTS (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares

ARTIFACTS (3)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

LANDS (22)
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Library
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle


Mini-report:

Matchups

R1: BUG delver (2-0)

Intens games. He played a version without Liliana/Hymn and instead more counters/stifles (which I am very happy with).
Ooze really delivered by shrinking goyfs/denying Deathrite activations. Saved all Stps for his delvers and prayed that he wouldn't land a TNN.
In game 1 Birds of Paradise delivered a leathal blow by 2x exalted triggers from pridemages, which was awesome. He would've killed me on the following turn.


In: +2 Choke, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Zealous Persecution
Out: -2 Quasali Pridemage, -1 Maze of Ith, -1 Gaddok Teeg,

R2: Rw Goblins (2-0)

Game one he bricks on mountains and sits with 2 Tar Fires in his hand. I get Jitte going in both games and he just can't beat that.

In: +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Zealous Persecution, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Pithing Needle
Out: -1 Gaddok Teeg, -4 Thalia, 1 Green Sun

R3: Miracles (0-2)

Talented player (which makes this MU very difficult).
Game one he lands a turn 1 Top and just shuffles/replaces his top cards. I land a Mother of Runes and a Talia and beats down for 2 per turn.
I can't find a GSZ for Teeg and don't really dare to drop more creatures to the board, since he most likely has terminus somehwere on the top.
He eventually whipes the board, plays a counterbalance and stabilize with Jace. I hardcast Batterskull which he of coursehas Councils Judgement for.
Game 2 I mull to 5 (no-landers) and have a hand with only arbor as land. GG

I find this matchup really hard. You have to deploy preasure but at the same time not overextend to the board. The balance between these factors is not always clear.

In: +2 Choke, +1 Gaddok Teeg, +1 Sylvan Library, +2 Pithing Needle, +3 Thoughtsieze
Out: -4 Swords, -1 Maze of Ith, -2 Scavenging Ooze, 1 Wasteland, 1 Knight


R4: Affinity (2-1)

Game one he pukes, and kills me with Cranial plated Vault Skirge. Game 2&3 I kill him with loads of creature hate and Jitte.

In: +2 Abrupt Decay, +1 Toxic Deluge, +2 Zealous Persecution, +2 Pithing Needle
Out: (-4 Thalia on the draw) (-2 Thalia, -1 Gaddok Teeg, -1 Knight on the play) -3 Mother of Runes

@Benke:
Congrats on kicking some ass. I like where your lists goes. A few things to point out...
-2-3x SFM is where it's at. The only "issue" per se is Batterskull. I think Sword of X&Y #2 > Batterskull under most circumstances. I like Batterskull in the SB as it's relevant against Miracles as a threat + many midrange decks as a trump card.
-Maze of Ith....this card hasn't been in my list for over a year. I loved it to pieces but then realized it was a security blanket I didn't need. Cradle is the upgrade here. What Herzog and others correctly point out is that Cradle lets you explode on turns with equipment. In the midgame you can conceivably drop SFM, grab Jitte or Sword of X&Y, equip it on a dude who can attack, and profit....all in the same turn.
-Birds is a good call if you run 3 equipment and prefer 4 DRS. I am a bigger fan of 3 DRS + 2 Noble. As you saw, the exalted triggers can add up.
-2 Sylvan Library > 1
-4 Moms > 3
-I prefer a "balance" between QPM and Scooze. The 2:2 split is fine. Don't be afraid to put QPM #3 or Scooze #3 in the SB. They kick the crap out of different decks. If goyf and DRS run rampant in your meta, don't shy away from 3x ooze in your 75. People may give you shit for it initially ("that's a weird call man...idk if I agree with that") but Scooze. Eats. Graves.

Question:
How was Needle in the SB? Would you have preferred O-Ring/Banishing Light? Were there times you wanted WLL in the SB, especially against BUG?

Warden, I agree with most of your points.

I'm not entirely against maze, but if it is included, I'd play it as a 23rd land (it's basically a Knightable spell, and otherwise does not function as a land).

Needle is a great card. It's cheap, and colorless. O ring has upsides, but costing 1 is so powerful that I frequently add Needles to sbs when there isn't a super strong reason for something else.

I'm a big fan of Maze but it definitely takes a spell slot over a land. It's nice to be able to pressure people with Knight while still progressing the mana denial plan or searching up a Cradle.

@ Warden

Thanks for the input! Your suggestions makes sense.

I believe I'll switch the MB batterskull for a Sword of Feast and Famine instead of SoLaS because:

1) Stoneforge decks are not that represented in my current meta, meaning I'll rather have protection from green than white.
2) I rarely have a creature I want to bring back, since there are so many deathrites/my own ooze that eats the graveyard.
3) I understand that SoLaS is ok vs Miracles. It is only the pro-white that matters here, which can be obtained from a Mom.
4) Untapping all lands seems quite nice. Re-equipping on a blocking creature/deploy more threats after combat sounds better than gaining 3 lives + having no creature to bring back (often atleast)

Maze of Ith.. Yes, It should probably be cut.. It's so hard though - It's one of those card you really would love to be good, because you like it very much for some reason (Nostalgia I guess).
I imagine that Knight benefit a lot from having a Maze though. Also, it's a nice out against affinity / combolands but might just be too cute. Probably replacing it with a Cradle.

Moms I figured that I replace 1 MoM with a tutorable Safekeeper. Having 4 Moms+safekeeper seems excessive but atm I'm happy with the configuration. I love the instant effect of the safekeeper, great against storm/miracles. But then again, MB safekeeper might be for nostalgic reasons as well :)

Sylvan I hear you. Having a sylvan out equals a won game. Simple as that.

Needles One of a few really good SB cards against Miracles. I also really like the versatility of the card, great against Lands, Opposing Lilianas/Jaces, Vials, Sneak attacks etc. You always have something to name. I wouldn't go below 1-2 in the SB.
O-ring also has a lot of upside, but I think it's more narrow than Needle.

WLL The BUG players in my meta havent really adopted back post Treasure Cruice ban, so they rely more on denial than discard. If Shardless BUG begin to rise again, or if BUG delver starts to include Hymns/several Lilianas again, then I'll consider WLL. As for now, I think the card is too narrow and can't hold a spot in the SB.

I realize it's not our best matchup anyway, but I just cannot seem to make my elves matches even break parity. It is shockingly difficult to hate out all of the ways they can kill out of nowhere. Has anyone had much luck?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cambriel

I realize it's not our best matchup anyway, but I just cannot seem to make my elves matches even break parity. It is shockingly difficult to hate out all of the ways they can kill out of nowhere. Has anyone had much luck?

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Play black for sweepers. I run (seriously) 5 sweepers to hold the fort against them. I've been unsuccessful with 4 sweepers (2 Toxic, 2 ZP) and felt it wasn't enough even with additional removal a la Decay or PTE. The biggest issue I have is when I don't land a sweeper on turn 2 (zenith for 0 turn 1) or turn 3 on the play. I've watched Elves "go off" by decaying my turn 2 Teeg and just combo off. Very frustrating.

Here is my unorthodox Vial/Wish Maverick list I have had some success with. The Vial/Wish interaction has been pretty powerful. It has been nice to have main deck answers to most situations. Thoughts?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze

4 Aether Vial
4 Living Wish
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

SB

4 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Containment Priest
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Bojuka Bog

I usually SB in one Containment Priest and leave one in SB for a wish target against relevant matchups. I go back and forth from Qasali Pridemage vs Leonin Relic-Warder. The Relic-Warder is 1 less mana but may not be a permanent solution.

I don't like when everything dies to pyroclasm, why not even 1 KotR ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaydprickett

Here is my unorthodox Vial/Wish Maverick list I have had some success with. The Vial/Wish interaction has been pretty powerful. It has been nice to have main deck answers to most situations. Thoughts?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze

4 Aether Vial
4 Living Wish
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

SB

4 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Containment Priest
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Bojuka Bog

I usually SB in one Containment Priest and leave one in SB for a wish target against relevant matchups. I go back and forth from Qasali Pridemage vs Leonin Relic-Warder. The Relic-Warder is 1 less mana but may not be a permanent solution.

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Are you the player that finished top 4 at the Washington, DC Premier IQ? I had previously played a Vial Maverick list similar to what M@verick was running (with Weathered Wayfarer), but there are a lot of things I like about the Living Wish build (including the Dark Confidants). I'd be interested in exchanging ideas.

Got to the semis last sunday with this list:
4 KotR
4 Thalia
4 Mom
4 StP
4 GSZ
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Teeg
1 Pridemage
1 Scooze
1 SoFI
1 Sylvan Library

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas

4 Thoughtseize
3 Zealous Persecution (tired of losing to TNN)
2 Canonist
2 Choke
1 Teeg
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 SolaS

39 players, 6 rds swiss
Miracles 2-0
Both games were the old 1-2 punch of Knight fetching wastelands along with her buddy Thalia. No top deck Terminus :tongue:

Goblin Stompy 0-2
1. He was on the play with a first turn Magus of the Moon. Wasn't able to top deck a basic Plains. GG
2. Went the distance, however removal wasn't enough for his multiple Mogg Catchers tutoring for Kiki Jikki + Murderous Redcap. :frown:

Patriot 2-0
1. Knight got huge fast while decaying his Delvers.
2. Kept a land heavy opening hand because he was on the mana denial plan. He got carried away with stifles and wastelands, so he was left with a single Tundra for the last 5 turns so my Knights did what they do best. :laugh:

SnT 2-1
1. Emrakul from a Sneak Attack seems to be pretty good.
2. He got screwed with his own Blood Moon. Teeg with one Deathrite Shaman did all the 20 damage. Lol
3. Early beats with Thalia and Deathrite's with Mom on standby for Pyroclasm. Eventually top decked his SnT dropping his noodles, me with Knight. Got Karakas on my turn that's all she wrote.

Food Chain Griffins 0-2
1. He did not combo off both games. Got me delayed with his Strixes he played all 4 :laugh:. This went the distance, ended up being out aggroed which felt funny.
2. Early Clique carrying a Jitte against my Moms and dorks was brutal.

Dragon Stompy 2-0
1. He was on the play with a turn 1 Chalice set to 1 and a turn 2 Magus of the Moon, fortunately floating the black for a Decay. That was his only threat for the game so it was time for Knight smash!
2. Another early Blood Moon. My first play was on turn 3 for a GSZ fetching my singleton Pridemage. Knights went to town having a good time after that.

Got to top 7 after swiss.

Affinity 2-1
1. He was on the play with Chalice for 1. By this time I was about ready to puke with all the CotV's I played against that day. Ornitopter with a Cranial Plating loved me long time.
2. A long game with his Etched Champions holding the fort. My Deathrite Shaman did his best Grim Lavamancer impression to even up the match.
3. Two Revokers on Knight and Jitte, an Etched Champion and an Ornitopther. Of course, my favourite Chalice for 1 was giving me cold sweats. Made sure I save my Decays for the Platings. Me with 3 Knights at 5/5. He was down to 6 life from all his Ancient Tomb activation's. Knight put on the pressure. He missed on combat math so he was forced to chump block and was left with his Etched Champion and Da Vinci's invention. KNIGHT SMASH!!!:laugh:

Infect
He was a teammate so we decided to have him play for the finals against SnT for a more favorable match up. He eventually won and we split our prizes. :tongue: