[Deck] 12 Post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ehhh

Yeah I might try the Moat + Dark Depths again .. for now I'm trying the Swords + Knight

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So I ran a similar build to what you posted the other day at an EE5 satelite today. Honestly, I think Dryad arbor is a trap. I had it STPed today, punishing fired, and aggressively FoW your GSZ for zero. I think it lifespan was literally one turn.

I will say it was really sweet when I activated a knight, retrieving a tabernacle against meathooks. He just payed for all the idiots and killed me anyways. My issue with knight today was even with 4x basics and 4x duals, it's really stressing on the mana to sac a color sourced to tutor up a land.

Also, since you're move of a "Maverick-Post" you might be able to support Thalia in SB if you want more combo hate.

I've also been tinkering with Grapple with the Past as well, as a maindeck 2 to 3 of. There is times where it's bananas, but I've already had the scenario where you grapple into a necessary land, accidently send Nulamog to the graveyard, when you need him later down the road. I guess that's just variance.

My build has been using Knight for a while, but there is one important difference: I don't have just Dryad Arbor, i also play Mox Diamond (right now the full 4). That makes it much easier to cast it on turn 2, and still the casting cost is sometimes an issue with Knight - and the reason i'm running only two. I'm not sure how good a list without any Mox Diamonds can support it.

Also, i think Tireless Tracker works really good alongside the Knights - you could just replace one of the Knights with a Tracker to try it, and Tracker doesn't have the color problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

My build has been using Knight for a while, but there is one important difference: I don't have just Dryad Arbor, i also play Mox Diamond (right now the full 4). That makes it much easier to cast it on turn 2, and still the casting cost is sometimes an issue with Knight - and the reason i'm running only two. I'm not sure how good a list without any Mox Diamonds can support it.

Also, i think Tireless Tracker works really good alongside the Knights - you could just replace one of the Knights with a Tracker to try it, and Tracker doesn't have the color problems.

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Hey Leshrac,

Would you mind posting your list?
I would like to give it a look. Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moseby

Hey Leshrac,

Would you mind posting your list?
I would like to give it a look. Thanks

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I posted it a few pages back, but here it is again, including minor recent changes:

Maindeck (61 cards):


2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Mox Diamond
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Grapple with the Past
2 Warping Wail
2 Crucible of Worlds


Sideboard:

1 Reclamation Sage
2 Warping Wail
1 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
1 Crop Rotation
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Surgical Extraction


There are probably other options to go with the list around the same core.
(For example i'm trying to figure out a good list without the black splash. I had that from the beginning for the Gitrog Monster, but since i cut it, it's almost entirely for sideboard cards. But while Thoughtseize is just one option for combo hate and could be replaced by different cards, Toxic Deluge does a lot of work.)

Anyone seen/tested the MUD/12 Post hybrid? Looks pretty interesting.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13389&d=278519&f=LE

TLK, I have played with a similar deck around six months ago, it suffers from not having Crop Rotation, and late game dead draws. However it can be very explosive, dropping huge threats early. I feel the deck benefits a lot from 1 Staff of Nin and 2 Coercive Portals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haven't had this bad of a sequence with the deck in quite some time... Went 1-3 at my local...

R1: Junk (1-2)
Really close games, was a fun match
R2: Eldrazi Stompy (1-2)
Went better than expected, if you can survive the initial onslaught and you stabilize, it's 50/50; Minna and Denn was a house in the game gaining me 4 life per turn.
R3: Miracles (0-2)
Got completely washed by our best match up, I'm talking complete decimation, but heck it happens
R4: -BYE-

Thoughts:

Veteran Explorer is better than I thought, gives me something to GSZ for in the early game, while providing defence.

TKS is not what I thought it was, its too slow. While the ability is killer and a 4/4 for 4 is really good, he's not what I want in the deck.

Kozilek's Return is a beast of a card, complete blowouts sometimes. Its one of the cards that if its needed in the deck G1, its there for you and if its not, it will gladly get SB'ed out.

Chalice of the Void is a killer VS Gr 12Post.. Since I don't have Repeal, makes games a bit harder.


AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL

Don't play MTG on 3hrs of sleep... Some of my matches went downhill because of obvious misplays on my part... Never felt I couldn't win any of them though, which leads me to believe the deck is a contender.

Fun fact, apparently there were 8 Miracles decks at last weeks tournament, out of 24 people. Didn't even play one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

Haven't had this bad of a sequence with the deck in quite some time... Went 1-3 at my local...

Thoughts:

Veteran Explorer is better than I thought, gives me something to GSZ for in the early game, while providing defense.

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So my going joke is veteran explorer text really says:
-1/1 Unblockable, Defender, when this creature dies, skip your next two draw steps, take two extra turns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

Haven't had this bad of a sequence with the deck in quite some time... Went 1-3 at my local...

R1: Junk (1-2)
Really close games, was a fun match
R2: Eldrazi Stompy (1-2)
Went better than expected, if you can survive the initial onslaught and you stabilize, it's 50/50; Minna and Denn was a house in the game gaining me 4 life per turn.
R3: Miracles (0-2)
Got completely washed by our best match up, I'm talking complete decimation, but heck it happens
R4: -BYE-

Thoughts:

Veteran Explorer is better than I thought, gives me something to GSZ for in the early game, while providing defence.

TKS is not what I thought it was, its too slow. While the ability is killer and a 4/4 for 4 is really good, he's not what I want in the deck.

Kozilek's Return is a beast of a card, complete blowouts sometimes. Its one of the cards that if its needed in the deck G1, its there for you and if its not, it will gladly get SB'ed out.

Chalice of the Void is a killer VS Gr 12Post.. Since I don't have Repeal, makes games a bit harder.


AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL

Don't play MTG on 3hrs of sleep... Some of my matches went downhill because of obvious misplays on my part... Never felt I couldn't win any of them though, which leads me to believe the deck is a contender.

Fun fact, apparently there were 8 Miracles decks at last weeks tournament, out of 24 people. Didn't even play one.

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What's your current/updated list?

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Originally Posted by TLK

What's your current/updated list?

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Here it is:


1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmperpost
1 Karakas
4 Snow-covered Forest
2 Taiga
3 Vesuva
4 Wooded Foothills

1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
3 Warping Wail
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Veteran Explorer
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Well, despite any version you're running, does anybody have a good plan against U/R delver?

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Originally Posted by Davek

Well, despite any version you're running, does anybody have a good plan against U/R delver?

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I hold Kozilek's Return (Warping Wail before the flip) while using baiting out FoWs with my Candelabra, and gain a bunch of life once I get to stabilize at around 4-5 life.

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Originally Posted by Davek

Well, despite any version you're running, does anybody have a good plan against U/R delver?

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Always get Glacial Chasm off a Primeval Titan trigger so they can't just Price you to death. Maze and Fog effects can hold back idiots in the mean time.

quick tourney report from a weekly. went 2-1 (split last round) but last match loss due to mis-sideboarding. deck felt great just lost some games due to variance.

after some testing, here's the list I've ended up on.

1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest

3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Pithing Needle

4 Brainstorm
2 Trickbind
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Crop Rotation
1 Warping Wail

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Primeval Titan

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Omniscience

4 Show and Tell
1 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam

SB:
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Hydroblast
1 Moment's Peace
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Swan Song
1 Sylvan Library
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Nephalia Academy



I've had maps in the intuition/lftl slot, but I was expecting a lot of chalice decks in the room (and there was). the list is a combination of rocklee's omni-builds with some extra interaction.

Rnd1: White Eldrazi/Hatebears

g1: he plays chalice on 1 with my hand of 3 1drops, snt, titan, 2 lands (vesuva). I copy his ancient tomb with vesuva and snt in primetime. he gets a new Thalia in play, but by this point I'm playing eldrazi.

g2: he mulls to 5, snt -> titan

at this point I look around the room and see like 5 chalice decks, dnt, etc... and am happy about cutting maps.

Rnd2: Lands

g1: early life from the loam allows me to pull out of wastelands. i snt ulamog but he puts in a karakas. game goes for a little while but I'm able to trickbind a crucial thespian's stage to draw a way to get karakas and eventually play a titan. he misplays at one point by sacing a green land for lftl, so I got a little lucky.

g2: he goes forest->exploration->thespian's stage -> mox diamond discarding depths ->lftl, which i respond to with a surgical extraction on the depths, leaving him with no win-cons. he scoops

rnd 3: miracles

we split but play it out. I DEF misboarded as I brought out all my show and tells for interaction. i added boseiju like 5 minutes before the rounds started, and shouldve left them in as I had answers to counters.

g1: I snt in omni with an eldrazi and primetime in hand but he has VENSER in his opener and I get hosed. we have some back and forth but he has timely answers to my threats and has an early mentor. mentor makes this matchup a little worse for us cause they actually have a clock.

g2: long game, ending with a hard-cast titan off a cavern, which gets the eye to cast the emmy. highlight is a trickbind on the miracle trigger of entreat.

g3: i mull to 5, he sticks an uncontested jace and mana-screws/fate-seals me into death.


I still really like the omnis and the intuition package. intuition was a must counter in the miracle/blue matchups, and is very good with omniscience. basically gives you another card that wins off omni. lftl was also great at reseting bad cards from sdt and helping against wastelands, and also getting back fetches for more shuffles. expedition map is probably better if you don't expect a lot of chalice but requires more testing.

the slot I'm not sold on is the warping wail. I've had repeal here which I also don't like. I'm tempted to swap in the spell pierce out of the board, which was very good (countered a jace and blood moon). if we had a good versatile removal spell in our colors I'd be all over it. maybe someone has some suggestions? Ive thought about the song of the dryads plan as a fun-of. I'm very intrigued by running fow..does anyone have experience with it?

Thanks to everyone here on the thread for the advice!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TLK

Anyone seen/tested the MUD/12 Post hybrid? Looks pretty interesting.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13389&d=278519&f=LE

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Hi TLK,

That's me and that's the deck I'm currently piloting =)

Ill post my report here later. =)

I think I'd like to try Exploration in the deck, since we play a lot of lands it could maybe speed up the deck a bit.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

I think I'd like to try Exploration in the deck, since we play a lot of lands it could maybe speed up the deck a bit.

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Afaik that was tried before, and to sum it up: In your opening hand it can be great and speed you up a lot, but it's a dead draw later on. Most 12post lists don't have a way to fill up your hand with lands reasonably fast. If you do try it, you will probably need some form of card advantage engine to get more out of it, like Tireless Tracker.

While i never really tried Exploration in my deck, at some point i did have multiple Oracles in the deck, and going off with Oracle and Tireless Tracker feels great. Overall i went in a different direction, but a deck like that works.



About the cardadvantage engine with Tireless Tracker, currently i'm exploring a different idea for my build trying to go straight GW: Enlightened Tutor.
I don't know if anybody with a white splash has tried that card before, but (just like the Mox Diamonds i'm playing) it has one big problem: It's carddisadvantage. But with 4 Tireless Trackers (and 4 GSZ) i think i might be able to afford that. The upside of Enlightened Tutor is the ability to put some very impactful bullets into the maindeck and even more bullets in low numbers into the sideboard.

Initial testing so far seems fine, so far i have mostly tested this against myself on different Tier 1-2 decks and the first results are promising.

Bullets i'm testing with it: Maindeck: Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, Expedition Map, Courser of Kruphix. (Candelabra and Needle could also work, maybe even Exploration - but the room is limited and i didn't like them so far.) Sideboard: Choke, Ghostly Prison, Ethersworn Canonist, Coercive Portal, Rest in Peace (maybe), Circle of Protection Red (maybe), Song of the Dryads (maybe). (Sphere of Resistance would also work, i started with that and completely destroyed Storm, but i actually needed more help against other decks. There might be even more viable options.)

I tried it with circle of protection red out of the board. It was ok, but there wasn't any burn in my meta when I was testing it. So I honestly couldn't tell you if it was worth it. The idea of running "5-8" needles, etc. is nice though

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

Afaik that was tried before, and to sum it up: In your opening hand it can be great and speed you up a lot, but it's a dead draw later on. Most 12post lists don't have a way to fill up your hand with lands reasonably fast. If you do try it, you will probably need some form of card advantage engine to get more out of it, like Tireless Tracker.

While i never really tried Exploration in my deck, at some point i did have multiple Oracles in the deck, and going off with Oracle and Tireless Tracker feels great. Overall i went in a different direction, but a deck like that works.



About the cardadvantage engine with Tireless Tracker, currently i'm exploring a different idea for my build trying to go straight GW: Enlightened Tutor.
I don't know if anybody with a white splash has tried that card before, but (just like the Mox Diamonds i'm playing) it has one big problem: It's carddisadvantage. But with 4 Tireless Trackers (and 4 GSZ) i think i might be able to afford that. The upside of Enlightened Tutor is the ability to put some very impactful bullets into the maindeck and even more bullets in low numbers into the sideboard.

Initial testing so far seems fine, so far i have mostly tested this against myself on different Tier 1-2 decks and the first results are promising.

Bullets i'm testing with it: Maindeck: Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, Expedition Map, Courser of Kruphix. (Candelabra and Needle could also work, maybe even Exploration - but the room is limited and i didn't like them so far.) Sideboard: Choke, Ghostly Prison, Ethersworn Canonist, Coercive Portal, Rest in Peace (maybe), Circle of Protection Red (maybe), Song of the Dryads (maybe). (Sphere of Resistance would also work, i started with that and completely destroyed Storm, but i actually needed more help against other decks. There might be even more viable options.)

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Would you mind sharing your list? I'd love to help some doing tests and I'm curious if it out performs the version with white.

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

About the cardadvantage engine with Tireless Tracker, currently i'm exploring a different idea for my build trying to go straight GW: Enlightened Tutor.
I don't know if anybody with a white splash has tried that card before, but (just like the Mox Diamonds i'm playing) it has one big problem: It's carddisadvantage. But with 4 Tireless Trackers (and 4 GSZ) i think i might be able to afford that. The upside of Enlightened Tutor is the ability to put some very impactful bullets into the maindeck and even more bullets in low numbers into the sideboard.

Initial testing so far seems fine, so far i have mostly tested this against myself on different Tier 1-2 decks and the first results are promising.

Bullets i'm testing with it: Maindeck: Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, Expedition Map, Courser of Kruphix. (Candelabra and Needle could also work, maybe even Exploration - but the room is limited and i didn't like them so far.) Sideboard: Choke, Ghostly Prison, Ethersworn Canonist, Coercive Portal, Rest in Peace (maybe), Circle of Protection Red (maybe), Song of the Dryads (maybe). (Sphere of Resistance would also work, i started with that and completely destroyed Storm, but i actually needed more help against other decks. There might be even more viable options.)

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I've played E-Tutor in my Gw SB before (w/Canonist, RIP, Spheres) and while it looks good in theory I was unimpressed by it. It felt durdly, not to mention my list (and probably many Gw lists) aren't geared to very consistently have access to W on turn 1. I'd rather have "faster", more narrow combo hate like Surgical, Leyline, or Mindbreak Trap, or something like G. Teeg who fits naturally into the GSZ package already played. Never tried it maindeck or with fair matchups in mind, but I'd say your plan merits testing at least.

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Originally Posted by Hencules

Would you mind sharing your list? I'd love to help some doing tests and I'm curious if it out performs the version with white.

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This is the current list:

Maindeck (61 cards):


2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Mox Diamond
3 Crop Rotation
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Warping Wail
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Expedition Map


Sideboard:


1 Reclamation Sage
2 Warping Wail
1 Krosan Grip
1 Gadock Teeg
1 Crop Rotation
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Choke
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Coercive Portal
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Circle of Protection: Red


This list is far less tested than my other list, and i'm still undecided on some cards.

Do i want Pithing Needle somewhere? Probably, just whenever i had it in play i had to play Engineered Explosives for 1 shortly after, so i cut it eventually.
Candelabra is probably not that great in my build in general, i tested it for a few games and didn't like it. Exploration was even worse. Still could be options.
Are 2 Top enough with the 2 Tutors to find it? I had to make room somewhere.
Is the lack of graveyard hate a problem? I cut my Surgicals from the board, tried Rest in Peace but didn't like it so far, so i cut all my additional graveyard hate and it still seems fine, but that probably needs more testing. Tormods Crypt or Relic of Progenitus would be other options that don't interfer with my graveyard.
Is CoP Red worth it? Don't know yet. Same with Song of the Dryads, with my other list i tested that a little bit and it was ok enough to keep it in mind, with Tutor it might be good enough (in that spot could be another Krosan Grip, or maybe a Seal of Primordium - something that can deal with Blood Moon).

Compared to my other list, i replaced Titania with a second Primetime (mostly because i was planning to play Rest in Peace, but overall it might be better) and cut the Ghost Quarter/Wasteland because that got a lot weaker without Titania. I replaced Oracle with Courser, overall i think Oracle is slightly better, but the option to tutor up Courser is relevant.

Coercive Portal i added after some testing against Shardless, that looked really bad until i went up to 4 Tracker, 4 GSZ and the Portal in the board. Might still be not that great.


The combination of Choke and Ghostly Prison, maybe even with Tabernacle, can be a lock against many blue-based creature decks, especially every Delver deck, but it's good against Miracles too. Storm is probably fine (i started with much more hate, but this seems to be enough). Eldrazi is a good matchup anyway, Bridge maindeck makes it even better.

Alright, what is you guys' plan vs Aluren? I feel the matchup is nearly unwinnable. Miracles probably feels like this playing vs us... Now I know the feeling...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

Alright, what is you guys' plan vs Aluren? I feel the matchup is nearly unwinnable. Miracles probably feels like this playing vs us... Now I know the feeling...

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It's pretty bad. I have a guy at my LGS who likes to troll with it. Generally, game 1 is absolutely awful unless you nut draw or know what you're playing and get down an early Needle for Cavern Harpy. After that, Grip can do a lot of work since they can't respond to it. The last thing to remember, that people seem to often forget, is that Aluren is symmetrical. This usually won't matter, but if you're running something like Ethersworn Canonist out of the board, you might have an opportunity to interrupt them.

Hey guys,

I'm going to record my 12 Post games and give my best commentary for players that are interested in improving their game.
My plan is to upload them on Youtube (link will be provided later when I have my channel setup) to archive my progress as well as entertainment value for streaming.. I plan to attend 2 Legacy GPs next year so I want to win them and understand every match to the best of my ability and adjust my list to the meta. This is the start of my build 09/04/2016.

find me at Twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh [Today's Past Broadcast will include Games and Commentary]

3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Moat
4 Primeval Titan
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Warping Wail
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Crop Rotation
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Pithing Needle

1 Dawnstrider
2 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Rest in Peace

[QUOTE=TTX;967655]TLK, I have played with a similar deck around six months ago, it suffers from not having Crop Rotation, and late game dead draws. However it can be very explosive, dropping huge threats early. I feel the deck benefits a lot from 1 Staff of Nin and 2 Coercive Portals.

Hi TTX,

I have played UG Post before and it has a lot of mana screw in colors, the MUD Based Post you've piloted before uses those draw acceleration. but My list is more accurate to cast biggies asap than the MUD based build you've tried.

I also tried the more aggro build, that uses City of Traitors and with Wurmcoils.

For me, just my opinion. I really prefer the MUD Based Post because of accuracy and mana stability the deck has compared to the colored Posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

This is the current list:

Maindeck (61 cards):


2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Mox Diamond
3 Crop Rotation
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Warping Wail
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Expedition Map


Sideboard:


1 Reclamation Sage
2 Warping Wail
1 Krosan Grip
1 Gadock Teeg
1 Crop Rotation
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Choke
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Coercive Portal
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Circle of Protection: Red

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I think Riftstone Portal can find a home here...

10 ways to get a land in the graveyard, plus 4 lands that dont tap for mana + bog + fetchlands when they can no longer fetch

When i used portal in RG Lands, a mox/portal in the opener was nearly an auto keep. (sidenote, i've since cut it to make room for a ghost quarter, but when it was there, it was good)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE0...sUZmMrbGqmIjEg

here is my youtube account just for starters. I uploaded a few of my recent sessions with G/W 12 Post also Twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh is where I stream if you guys want to check me out follow!

Current Decklist -

3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Moat
4 Primeval Titan
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Warping Wail
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Crop Rotation
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Pithing Needle

1 Dawnstrider
2 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Rest in Peace

Alrighty Lads, I have never posted here but have read the entire thread back to back. I have been playing 12 post for a while, about a year. I have changed the version of the deck i had been playing over the time I had this deck. My first iteration was John Kassari's deck with his double dryad arbor Green Sun package. The first thing i am going to do is show off my current deck list and chomp into the cards: why i have included or excluded popular pics.
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Maindeck (60)

LANDS:::
Cloudpost x4
Tabernacle x1
Ancient tomb x2
Glimmerpost x4
Vesusva x4
Wooded Foothills x3
Forest x4
Nephalia Academy x1
Maze of Ith x1
Karakas x1
Bojuka Bog x1
Glacial Chasm x1
Cavern of Souls x1
Eye of ugin x1

CREATURES:::
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn x1
Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger x1
Kozilek, The Great Distortion x1
Emrakul, The Promised End x1
PRIME TIME x4

WALKERS:::
Ugin x2

Sorceries/Instants:::
Ancient Stirrings x4
Crop Rotation x4
Warping Wail x4

Artifact:::
Sensei's Diving Top x3
Expodition Map x2
Candelabra of Tawnos x4


Sideboard (15)
Surgical Extraction x1
Platinum Angel x1
Krosan Grip x2
Silent arbiter x1
Oblivion Stone x1
Splendid Reclamation x1
Pithing Needle x3
Elephant Grass x2
Leyline of Sanctity x3

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"Woah, where is the blue?????"
"Ancient Tomb?"
"4 Candles???"

Ya, ya. This is Mono green. I have reasons. First, show and tell is a weird card; SOT creates and ultimatum about showing against a fast deck or having nothing else to do in the face of disruption from decks like Delver.

Ancient Tomb is a monster. We only need 2, The Tomb digs us out of a hole caused by wastelands and other denial effects. Fast mana really quick allows for sticks of a Prime Time very effectively and they are a great target for Crop Rotations. When you are done with their use, Rotate again to trade them for Posts. The Tomb bridges a gap in disruptive match ups. A Titan resolved is often enough to win you the game all by its self.

Candle is stupidly powerful. This deck plays a bit like a Greener, Toolboxier, more efficient version of MUD. Turning a few posts into ridiculous mana or making 1 forest produce 2 mana for a Prime Time is just Gravy.

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Lets talk the important lands: Academy, Tomb, 3 Fetches, No dark depths/ Stage, including tabernacle and chasm maindeck.

Academy is the fight against discard. Personally this comes in mostly against storm as crop rotation can get this at instant speed and allow for the storm matchup to be much easier. This can combine with top to prevent a storm player from ever stripping your Warping wail/ crop rotations.

Tomb has been explained above :)

3 Fetches, optimal shuffles. Got three tops. Need it . Can use other green fetches.

Stage and depths, if i wanted this, i would be playing lands. That's not how i roll.

Tabernacle/chasm: We can tutor for bullets easy. Keep them main, it pays off. Also Chasm and tomb interact very well. I find myself prime timing early with help from a tomb to get a chasm and something else. The titan will win the game before our self clock runs out.

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Soceries and stuff

Warping Wail: Yes, this is actually the butter for the bread. Counters, tokens, exile effects, it really is that good. Trust me. x4 everyday m8.

Rotate and stirrings: Rotate for posts, stirrings for threats and candles

NO GSZ. It's just too slow. Dryad arbor is a dead card, greensun gets hit by Teeg. There are reason i have strayed from it. It's good, not for me or my meta.

NO Show and Tell. Not my cup of tea. Going for this put you behind in hard casting BIG MAMA herself. Emrakul seals games and throws the key away when you hard cast her.

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Artifacts:

Candle: Explained above

Map: gets cavern agaisnt blue, gets post when i need to be fast

No Amulet of Vigor: IT's good, way better than the community treats it. When comboed with candle it can provide for explosive starts so ridiculous it hurts. The card seems Win More, i am trying it out in my spare time. I haven't given up hope.

TOP: Need as many as possiable, you want one each game but hate multiples. 4 is too many, 1/2 might be correct, IDK.
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Sideboard is a work in progress and very meta dependent. Customize side for what you face. I would love to hear thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

This list is far less tested than my other list, and i'm still undecided on some cards.

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Seeing as you shaved black and you're running some more silver bullet artifacts with E-Tutors, have you given any thought to squeezing in a Trop and an Academy Ruins?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djxstream

I think Riftstone Portal can find a home here...

10 ways to get a land in the graveyard, plus 4 lands that dont tap for mana + bog + fetchlands when they can no longer fetch

When i used portal in RG Lands, a mox/portal in the opener was nearly an auto keep. (sidenote, i've since cut it to make room for a ghost quarter, but when it was there, it was good)

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I tried it for a few games, but i don't really see it making the cut. I have to cut a colored source for it, and so far every time i had it, i would have prefered a Forest instead. If you get it with Mox Diamond it's nice, but that's just not often enough compared to the games where you want the colored mana and have a Riftstone Portal instead. Usually, when i can put a Riftstone Portal into the graveyard that means i already have access to green mana, so it get's less useful. Lands is playing more land that can't produce mana, can get it much more reliably into the graveyard and for Lands it can solve issues with Blood Moon much better - when i lose to Blood Moon it's usually not because i don't have green or white mana, it's because i can't ramp with Cloudposts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kozilek

Seeing as you shaved black and you're running some more silver bullet artifacts with E-Tutors, have you given any thought to squeezing in a Trop and an Academy Ruins?

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Yes. I don't know if it's good enough, but that was one of the first ideas i had. Academy Ruins fits with Explosives, Expedition Map and (what i would definitely play with it) Tormod's Crypt as a Sideboard card, and can of course get a lot of other stuff back. I had that idea even before i came up with this list, i tried Trinket Mage before i went to Enlightened Tutor instead for the bigger and much better toolbox. And then i cut the Ruins because there were no blue cards left in the deck.

From the games i tested with Academy Ruins, about as often as the Ruins did something useful, it mattered that the mana was slightly worse. I really can't tell yet what's better - if i had other reasons to splash blue i would probably play with the Ruins, but there just aren't many reasonable sideboard cards. (Of course i could go heavy blue and put cards like Flusterstorm in the board, but that's not my plan with this deck. What i'm looking for would be interesting 1-ofs for the board. The only card i found so far is Chill.)

I'm even playing around with a 4-color version, but that one is probably just worse than any of the other options (might still give me some ideas though).

I've been silent for a loooong time now, but still playing and loving this deck! Met Loxmatii @BOM Straßbourg, great guy and player! This is the list I'm playing for some time now, with some success as well:wink: :


25 Lands:

4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Vesuva
4 Tropical Island
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog

6 Creatures:

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
4 Primeval Titan

29 Spells:


2 Perilous Vault
2 Song of the Dryads
2 Grapple with the Past
2 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
3 Crop Rotation
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Selvala's Stampede
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

15 Sideboard:
2 Swan Song
4 Flusterstorm
3 Krosan Grip
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Wasteland

Selvala's Stampede is my flex-slot. Will cut this card, but not sure what to put in this slot. Maybe Shifty Doppelganger again? No Repeals, no Warping Wails for me atm. Repeal can be funny, but doesn't do enough in certain MUs. Warping Wail is similar, can be great, can be almost useless. I really like the Songs! They are great on the own, and insane with Vesuva. THX Rock Lee:wink: Even used one to turn a Dark Depth into a Forest against Lands... Perilous Vault is a nice sweeper, decay-proof and can stick on the board to slow opponents down. Won me several games. Grapple with the Past was a nice idea of Leshrac82, if I remember correct? Very useful EOT - tool to recover 1-off lands, countered/discarded Titans and / or see 3 new cards with SDT. 1-off Wasteland in the Sideboard looks weird, I know. Used to be a meta-call against Omni-Tell after losing to Boseju with 2-3 counters in hand, but it really helps against Infect, Lands etc. as well. Maybe I will have to cut the 2 Swan Songs without Repeal, because an early swan can cause big trouble (like 12 damage!). Not sure, what counter spell I will take, any suggestions?

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


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As far as trinket mage I like 1 when when I played UG as it basically gives you a second copy of whatever you need; top, needle, candle, expo map, explosives et la. It lets you run a tool box of whatever you want. One issue I found is BUg brings in null rod which is already a bad matchup. That being said I think pro's definitely outweigh con's. That being said it depends the room you have, and want to commit, also I am running the post fit (nicfit version) so I might not give an appropriate response for today's meta. I normally only had 1 candle, but others may run more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


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This is my current U/G List. If you're not running selvala's stampede then 1 trinket mage is pretty good. I like force of will in the sideboard a lot but you might want a few more blue cards then what I'm running. Condescend isn't a terrible maindeck option, it catches a lot of people off guard and it's nice to have a permanent answer to things like creatures. Now that green has a sort of mini-eureka/show and tell in stampede I'm actually considering trying R/G with Kozilek's return and either sneak attack or stronghold gambit in the sideboard.

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
3 Show and Tell
3 Repeal
3 Selvala's Stampede
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Moment's Peace

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


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I play 1 candle to make room for Omni's (respect to rocklee for suggesting!). I feel the strength of adding blue is in snt and Omni's really maximize them. Force of Will doesn't have enough blue cards to support it I've found, even when I've really tried to get up the numbers. I prefer Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm as they're consistently solid. A lot of people like fow in the sb but I think the slots are better used for the delver matchups. so many times I've been holding up 1 or 2 hate cards and storm duress's you, therapies you, then you die, so I conceded a few sb slots for this bad matchup. If there's a lot of storm/belcher/random t1 combos, I could definitely see it. Trickbind is a nice addition from blue, it fills a similar role to needle except it has nice corner cases where its really good.

I've had great success with Cyclonic Rift over Repeal as Repeal feels too mana intensive. it's nice with tops/candles but I'd rather be able to bounce a Gbrand or something large for cheap. if I'm getting wasted all the time it can be hard to repeal a 3-drop and still hold mana for top activations and crop rotation. plus it's better against chalice x1. plus you get the edh style blowouts against fair decks when you hit 7 mana. definitely considering going to 2.

Omni's are really sweet....they speed up your clock by like a turn and give you INSANE nut draws. the Boseiju in the sb helps the snts resolve against blue decks and we're very good at closing the game once we've got Omni in play. it usually only takes a turn where snt->titan takes several turns. they can be clunky but they're great material to board out g2. they've given me several outs in recent games where I probably would've gotten PoP'd or Lage'd out of the game if I wasn't able to drop an eldrazi cast trigger off snt or tutor eye->cast emmy in one turn.


I've been meaning to seriously test your mono-g list but I have a hard time getting away from snt. this list has done me well at several tourneys already am I'm still a newb.


here's a little different list if you want to try playing omni's.

2 Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian's Stage

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell
2 Omniscience

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map

4 Crop Rotation
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Trickbind
1 Warping Wail

SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Nephalia Academy
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 1 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

With Conspiracy S&T at only $20, I'm thinking about picking up a set and actually giving UG a try. Should I go a Trinket Mage toolbox route? And how many Candles is optimal in UG? And should I run Force of Will?


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I didn't like Trinket Mage. 3 Mana to get me an artifact, and I still have to pay it's mana, too? Way too expensive and slow imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Postman

I didn't like Trinket Mage. 3 Mana to get me an artifact, and I still have to pay it's mana, too? Way too expensive and slow imo

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Hm.. i tend to disagree. Currently i'm tackling a list with 2 mages MB. it gets easier when u run 1-2 tombs. mage definitely isn't a power house on its own, but it does help to overcome many weaknesses. i guess it depends on the build and style of play. i won many games with mage fetching the right tool at the right time. Its also a creature (can block or get sacked instead of your big guys...). it's also nice when the opponent has to force your second rate card :tongue:

I was running a 1 of Mage main board for the longest time but have moved away to it due to moving away from the artifact toolbox it felt like I was diluting my plan too much in the UG version. Also Omniscience is something like a 4% hit on t2 t3 with your current list which IMO isn't worth it. If you top deck it late game as well it feels like a pretty crap card to draw. The SNT into Prime Time is something like 8-11% t2-t3 with my list. My plan now consists of hitting a snt into titans more consistently. As well as disrupting hands with TKS.

Current list is something like this:

3 Ancient Tomb
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva


1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 World Breaker

2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
1 Repeal
4 Show and Tell

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Expedition Map
3 Sensei's Divining Top

SB: 1 Emrakul, the Promised end
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Moment's Peace
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Swan Song

How important is Cavern to UG builds? How often do you actually tutor for it?

(I've never really cared about countermagic too much with Cg, since my only creatures are Eldrazi. Besides S&T, it's the only major UG card I don't have already.)

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In G/r I run one Cavern because it really does help.