Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EpicLevelCommoner
Horizon Canopy for draw power with Eternal Witness?
I ran one for a while. Not really worth the pain that it causes and not being fetchable kinda stinks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EpicLevelCommoner
Also, I don't really fear creauture spells as I do Show and Tell, Goblin Charbelcher, Dread Return, etc. Hence the negate over counterspell. I'd prefer Flusterstorm, since Blue based combo has to invest more counterspells to protect their combo, but that lacks the same coverage.
Eh who knows: I just might try mana leak or rune snag.
I can't get on board the soft counter train when we're running Explorers. Negate doesn't really solve the Belcher problem since you'll still lose turn 0 plenty. It might be okay vs S&T, though in my experience, if you're on blue they won't play it until they have counter backup and you pretty much can't win a counter war with just a pair of Negates.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
As an old Rock player I must admit that this list looks very good and could be a good start to work. Armada wurm seems very reasonable replacement for titans, and Trolstani, well, it can work in this deck. Something I'm lacking in GBw and GB is a good 4 drop besides thrun. I haven't played played with Master and some list ran it some time ago, I don't know why it was dropped but I will give it another try. Trolstani is another 4 drop that have good stats and habilities but I am worried about its activated hability to be useless most of the game.
Anyway with this experimental list you do give me a reason to run white, and maybe that's what I was expecting to hear from someone. Thanks!
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I don't think Armada Wurm is better than Primeval Titan, even in Rock Fit. Prime will fetch up to 12 trample damage in the form of 3 permanents as opposed to Armada's mere 10 and 2. Prime also offers different angles of attack when you can grab the two towers or a combination of Wildwood and Treetop. Plus, Terminus hates manlands.
As far as the "off the top" list posted by Arianrhod, here's what I think:
-Thrun overlaps with Sigarda, the list is already jam-packed with creatures as it is;
-2 Thragtusk is overkill. You only need to land 1 Thrag to optimize GSZ when you need to gain life, the second Thrag is win-more unless you use him as a beater (Sigarda is better at that IMO). There is even a Finks in that list so the RUG/Burn/Sligh matchups are guaranteed already;
-Trostani and Master fall into the testing/flex slot category, playing both takes up valuable space;
-A single Slime pretty much invalidates Vindicate vs. Pulse since you now have 5 virtual copies of Artifact/Enchantment/Land removal that happens to loop with the two Towers;
-StP doesn't have a reason to be anymore now that Abrupt Decay is availlable. You either play around daze (2cmc, 1 of which has to be white (wasteland vulnerability)), or you can punch through all the counters;
-A healthy amount of Planeswalkers should find their way in there, it is a control deck after all.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hi people,
Told you a few pages earlier about a Omniscience version of Nic Fit, which did 9/50
So here is the list for people who like to work on this.
Quote:
MAIN DECK 61
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacomb
3 Windswept Heath
1 Scroll Rack
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Academy Rector
1 Fierce Empath
1 Bone Splinters
1 Innocent Blood
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pattern of Rebirth
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Diabolic Intent
2 Eladamri's Call
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin Lord of Innistrad
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
1 Omniscience
SIDEBOARD 15
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Gaddock
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Perish
1 Abrupt Decay
First things first:
Why play *this* ?
I love Nic Fit BGw., I really do. It's so fun, polyvalent and all. But it takes ages to kill. Before Innistrad, I used to play Thrun as GSZ target, and Eldrazi Conscription as a Rector target. But Terminus wipes this all... :/ But even without that stupid killer combo, I would play because it's so fun. Just board in some Elspeth and Lingering Souls MD for UW and this should be fine.
But again, it takes ages to kill, and may lead you to draw games you would win with more time.
And then M13 was spoiled, and I immediately saw Omniscience fitting in there.
So people would put you on Nic Fit when you drop the Explorer, and don't see this coming at all and not so fast. The combo gives you an incredible pressure for following games because people usually don't have sideboard for that (or do not know how Rector triggers and all... which is really handy :p).
Some comments on MD:
Scroll Rack main use is to reshuffle the only Omniscience you may unluckily draw (yeah shit happens). For lucky people it might be as well a 3rd SDT.
1-off Pattern of Rebirth is the B-plan, in case you have Omniscience in hand, and you can manage to find the Rack.
The main synergy comes from Diabolic Intent and Academy Rector. One can see that Cursed Garruk -1 with Rector give you the same result.
Another pathway to the combo is to flashback a Cabal (or any sac outlet) on Rector, to Omniscience, then play Eladamri's Call on Emrakul, or even GSZ@3 on Fierce Empath for Emrakul.
The token gameplan is an appreciable add-on. They stall the game, sometimes ruin Jace, but also feed Diabolic Intent, and hold the Pattern of Rebirth. All nice feature.
In that sense, Lingering Souls are awesome, Sorin eventually kill Jace, and Garruk serves also the A plan.
First version used to have 2 Liliana of the Veil, but it happened that you would not activate her sometimes, which is not cool. Also she may control you opponent hands, but do we really need that ?
Eternal Witness used to be the original 2nd target for GSZ. But Empath is better as it gets you to Emrakul.
Sideboard:
- Well you do not really stand against combo in general. And one can expect to play against Reanimator, Ichorid or ANT/Belcher. But that is true for Nic Fit in general.
- Aside of combo, your worse enemy has become Maverick, zhich is not the case or regular Nic Fit versions, because or Qasali Pridemage, Scavenging Ooze and Aven Mindcensor all rape you on the spot :/. Pridemage destroys Omniscience on the stack. Scavenging Ooze exiles Rector when she triggers (if your opponent know that this sole creature screw you up completely, which is unlikely as few people understand Rector's wording straight away). And Mindcensor is well... Mindcensor ^^. So Perish is needed in addition to the 3rd Deed.
- Didn't have the chance yet to resolve Chains of Mephistopheles against Brainstorm.deck. I just can't wait for that !!!
Small report of my 9/50 event:
Went 4-2, winning Gobz, Maverick, Bant, Thresh
Lost to Dark Thresh, that just had twice the ideal starting 7 with dreadful THoughtseizes. And to BUG, game 1 because of Hymn to Tourach into Veteran AND GSZ. Never touched a W source otherwise I raped him. And game 3 mull 5 into Bayou that got wasted (I told you, shit happens...)
Things I would like to try out:
1 more Pattern of Rebirth and 1 Altar's Reap.
I've got a friend who plays less control, and more all-in with more "Targets" (Griselbrand, Emrakul, Angel of Despair), Living Wishes and 3 Eureka / 3 Omniscience MD
So this is it. If people wanna try out this, I'd be happy to hear any feedback !!
PS:
@Epic: Draw machine ? Wall of Blossom > Horizon Canopy
@Arianrhod: Agree with Qweerios, Thrun overlaps Sigarda. In a Terminus field I would play Sigarda over Thrun.
@Qweerios: Sun Titan absolutely rocks Grave and Prime. I would play a Pattern of Rebirth in BGw just for him. Question of taste I guess :p
Karn vs Vraska: God damn knows how much I would like to play Karn, but yeah 7 is still too much even for Nic Fit. You would need to pack some Culling the Week for Karn.
Sorry that cards are not linked, not use to the board interface yet.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Vilnico -- Why aren't you running a singleton Living Wish with an Emrakul in the sideboard? At that point, it gives you a legitimate combo finish, because you can sac Rector to Intent, put Omni into play, Intent finds Wish, Wish for Emrakul, gg...all in one smooth motion. It also only takes 1 main and 1 sb slot, so it's pretty compact. I like the Scroll Rack technology here -- one of the main problems I've always had with people suggesting Omni in a Rector build is the "what if you draw it" question, which Rack solves. I'm not sure I like Bone Splinters, but eh. I can see why you'd want it. Definitely feels like you can do better than the Sorin/Souls backup plan. I also feel that you're way too focused on the combo, and your shell suffers a bit. You could easily make your shell much stronger, and leave the combo elements as just 1x Omni, 1x Wish. You'd be a little heavier into like Intent than other versions, obviously, but I don't think you need the Pattern, E. Tutor, Eladrami's Calls, etc. I don't have time at the moment to propose a list, but I'll try to get to you early next week.
@Qweerios -- Cutting Thrun is probably fine. Thragtusk is one of the best cards you can run in the current meta (at least around here), and I don't think that 2 is overkill at all -- especially since the deck wants to be doing silly things with Trostani, and Tusk is a good token-maker to populate for value. Now, that being said however, I do like your point about Acidic Slime, which is something that I forgot existed. Despite my love for Swagtusk, I could see chopping one for a Slime, very easily.
Master might not be good enough, and could be another token-maker of an indeterminate nature. He's something else to populate, and populating his tokens makes him live removal quicker. There's probably something better than him -- I just can't think of what it is off the top of my head. Replace with any solid token maker and move on. Garruk Primal Hunter?
I'm inclined to agree regarding Decay. I'm fond of StP for the sake of it being StP, but I think Decay completely pushes it out of the archetype, sadly.
Primeval will always be better in your mind, because you prefer Two Towers, where I usually opt for Nightmare as my recursion engine (which synergizes much better with Sun Titan).
Did you see my thoughts on Vraska vs Karn?
@All -- you guys should read Carsten's article today: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ana-Mania.html
There's some very good theoretical legwork in there about why ramp decks are becoming better and better positioned in the current metagame, and why they're just now becoming part of the meta. If you want to understand the theory behind "why" the deck you're playing is well-positioned, here you go.
One note that's relevant is that since Carsten doesn't talk specifically about Nic Fit in this article (other than a minor mention at the end), his point about Zoo and other aggro decks is not referring to us specifically. Moat still shits on goblins, and I still have never lost a single game to Zoo. Any kind of boogeyman-prophecied return of aggro doesn't intimidate me. I can definitely agree with his point as specifically referring to 12post and Solar Tezz, though.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
@
All -- you guys should read Carsten's article today:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ana-Mania.html
There's some very good theoretical legwork in there about why ramp decks are becoming better and better positioned in the current metagame, and why they're just now becoming part of the meta. If you want to understand the theory behind "why" the deck you're playing is well-positioned, here you go.
One note that's relevant is that since Carsten doesn't talk specifically about Nic Fit in this article (other than a minor mention at the end), his point about Zoo and other aggro decks is not referring to us specifically. Moat still shits on goblins, and I still have never lost a single game to Zoo. Any kind of boogeyman-prophecied return of aggro doesn't intimidate me. I can definitely agree with his point as specifically referring to 12post and Solar Tezz, though.
It will be a sad day for me if/when Carsten ends up on the Premium side of SCG.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Arianrhod:
I don't see the point in doing Intent into LWish to Emrakul, if you already have 1 Emrakul MD ? Just go Intent in to Emrakul no ? ^^
If you talk about having LWish instead of the MD Emrakul, I don't see the advantage in that. Except that it would open a LWish toolbox.
Also, if you don't pack the Emrakul MD, even with Omniscience on board E.Call and GSZ are no win-con anymore, where as those spells don't get L.Wish. Or you would have to play 4 L.Wish to cope with that loss.
Bone Splinters: originally it was 2 Innocent Blood. So they were supposed to kill 1 creature on each board. Splinters does quite the same, but you don't get to bt StP'd you Rector in response of Innocent Blood (yes stupid things happens sometimes). I still keep 1 I.Blood in order to be able to kill some creatures when we don't have.
I don't really understand your point for "being too focused on the combo", and "getting the (combo ?) shell much stronger" ?
Sounds contradictory to me.
Though I could hear that my shell is NOT too focused on the combo, as I pack a token gameplan. That is because I think that packing more tutors could be harmful somehow.
And anyway, even getting the combo shell stronger will not likely make you stronger than any other regular combo deck. So I don't think it would be worth going that way.
Can you maybe detail what you mean by getting the stronger shell ?
Though, I am supposed to play a weird format soon, with 20 min per rounds o_0
Meaning there should not be any UW Miracle around, or heavy control.
So I am gonna list something "more qll in" just to test. Will let you know how it goes.
One comment about StP:
+1 with you Arianrhod. Even with Decay out here, StP still remains the best removal to me.
To Qweerios, I believe StP is the first reason to splash white on Nic Fit. Then Sun Titan and finally Rector. I see it more that way (but again, matter of taste: I don't like Grave Titan, and hate B.Pod for example)
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
It's pretty safe to conclude that StP has no relevant application in Nic Fit since the printing of Decay, and honestly, I think it's quite obvious why... I am about to go to bed, but in case anyone doesn't get it, feel free to let it be known.
Also, I really do want to put my white duals to work but I can't find a good reason to, besides Rector. If anyone can advance any reasons as to how a white splash in GB Nic Fit has value, valid arguments and/or examples would be welcomed.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Eh ... Swords/Path is still applicable for the exile effect, especially considering how many legacy staples rely on the graveyard in some shape or form (Goyf, Dredge, Flashback, Threshold) and it has that nice bonus of getting rid of Dark Depths tokens (if that is a threat still).
The question then is: how much can a deck like Nic Fit apply Swords/Path? And I'm afraid I'm with Qweerios on this one: Abrupt Decay is just better for us.
However, I do believe white has more to offer than just Swords/Path and Rector: namely Vindicate as a Pulse+Wasteland substitute (which, lets be honest: Vindicate is better than Pulse unless your opponent overextends with multiple copies of the same nonland permanent [which Pernicious Deed tends to overlap here as well] or you have multiple Explorers out).
EDIT: Also, in regards to the Carsten article, it told us a lot about what we already knew regarding matchups (i.e. Nic Fit wins against fair decks, but not against unfair decks), but also something I didn't know: that the ramp Nic Fit pushes out is rather "tame" compared to Solsignet and 12 Post. Plus the comment about how the mana acceleration is actually part of the mana base makes a lot of sense.
This leads me to believe that Nic Fit could be better streamlined a bit in terms of how many slots are dedicated to ramping. I mean we do a pretty good job of that already, considering 4 to 5 slots for Veteran and a singleton manadork/Sakura-Tribe Elder, with Green Sun's Zenith being able to fetch anything from ramp to utility to win-con. But, what if we added more GSZs in the form of a Living Wish package with Bojuka Bog for grave-based decks like Reanimator and Dredge, Angel of Despair for Eldrazites, and additional mana ramp such as Ancient Tomb. Maybe even a big bad Eldrazi as a win-con once you have the mana out.
Imagine this hypothetical godhand: Vet, Therapy, Wish, Bayou, Land, Titan, Deed.
T1: Bayou, Therapy
T2: Vet, Therapy Flashback, Land, Deed
T3: Tomb Wish, Tomb
T4: Titan
So, by turn 3, we're looking at six mana to work with off of a 2-land hand; eight by turn 4 if we used Prime Time instead of Grave Daddy or Sunny Boy. We also tore any key pieces from our opponents' hand with double Therapy, and we also have multiple contigency plans in case of a bad matchup (i.e. Wish for Angel or Bojuka Bog; blow up the Deed); and three cards left in the hand.
E2: Disclaimer! Godhands may be rare, but they can happen! I suggest building a Wish Fit deck via proxies or online testing/goldfishing services and see how workable the hands you get are ^_^.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Thoughts on running a Persecute in the sideboard for a Wish version? Maybe cuttting a Throughtseize.
And thanks for the suggestion of cutting a Huntmaster. I've been testing with 3 Wood Elves and have one with Exodus art so I could see whether I wanted it to be an Huntmaster. I pretty much always want it to be an Elf.
edit: whats do you guys thing in replacing 1 Thragtusk with Genesis or Shivan Wurm with? The Wurm looks pretty damn saucy.
5 life and 2 chump blocks does do work though. STP protection on top of that is particularly nice.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kanti
edit: whats do you guys thing in replacing 1 Thragtusk with
Genesis or
Shivan Wurm with? The Wurm looks pretty damn saucy.
5 life and 2 chump blocks does do work though. STP protection on top of that is particularly nice.
Try Argothian Wurm rather than Shivan Wurm :cool:
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hey guys ive been reading this thread for ahwile now but never posted anything on it, but i thought I would post a report on here from my 3-2 with scapewish, this is my first time reporting so i apologize if its abit rambly
my maindeck was the same as airinrhods woth some changes to the board:
Vs miracles
G1 he got an early clique taking burning with from my hand and proceeded to get top and counterbalance out vs me, i sacced a veteran to thearapy to get enought lands and scapeshifted for the win
G2 out bonfirex2 veteran x1 therapy x1
In carpet of flowers x2 phyrexian arena x1
He dident do much besides counter some spells, i ran him out of counters after attemptung a scapeshift, GSZ for eternal witness for scapeshift won next turn
Round 2 vs friend playing my RUG deck
He got a game loss for deck registration and i procceeded to rip two deeds off the top to grind him out, scapeshift wins me the game
Round 3 vs landstill
I get randomly deck checked and lose round one for an unsleeved mountain in the other compartment of my deck box, gotta be more careful next time
Game 2 I mull to four and a standstill puts him one turn out of reach
Round 4 vs storm
Dont remember much of this match but i get destroyed in two games
Round 5 vs burn
Game one I draw 3 veterans on a mull to 4 and get him to 7 needing to win next turn, so i bonfire myself for 1 setting me to 6 and cast primeval titan, he has the rift and bolt
No board, G2 i start with vet, he plays goblin guide and swings trigger gets me a land and vet gets me 2 more, i untap and play a huntmaster he plays another goblin guide and lava mancer, his guides hit 2 more lands and i block one he bolts my huntmaster, on my turn i play and crack deed, from there I huntmaster and thragtusk w/ stronghold and tower until I get enough life to live through a price of progress and scapeshift
G3 he gets me to 4 while i get him to 2 with thragtusk and gsz for huntmaster hoping he doesent draw price next turn, and he doesent
Overall i did well, the only mistake i think I made playing was gsz for 2 against landstill forgetting that spell snare was a card, the deck played great and I hope to keep going to tournamets with it
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Firepaw, could you provide us with your decklist?
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Why did you board out a Cabal Therapy vs Miracles? It's probably better to board out another Explorer and keep the discard in :)
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Okay -- I ran a version of Future Fit at my local on Saturday, and I have a report to provide. I don't have the exact list in front of me at the moment, so I'm going to try to reconstruct it from memory and then I can edit it later with the precise version.
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Coiling Oracle
3x Baleful Strix
2x Eternal Witness
1x Magus of the Future
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Grim Tutor
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Helm of Awakening
3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Future Sight
2x Pernicious Deed
4x Brainstorm
1x Noxious Revival
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Forest
2x Swamp
2x Island
1x Academy Ruins
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Phyrexian Tower
//SB
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide
2x Extirpate
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Virtue's Ruin
3x Carpet of Flowers
3x Negate
1x Vraska the Unseen
I think that's fairly close to what I played. I had a massive derp moment Friday night, where I ended FNM so exhausted that I apparently walked out of the room without my backpack. My friends immediately saved it (our FNMs are only 14-18 people usually, and everyone knows me, so it's not like it was really in danger), and one of the guys that was going to be in my car the following day kept it overnight for me. Unfortunately, this meant that when I woke up Saturday morning to build my deck, I kind of didn't have my binders and such to actually do the building -- as a result, I threw like all of my useful commons/uncommons/built decks into another backpack and just built the deck on-site. I'm fairly sure that had I actually been able to brew it at home, with less pressure on me, I would have been able to build it better. But, it is what it is.
R1: U/W Miracles
G1 I sit on a Deed for a while. He Cunning Wishes for Disenchant and blows it up, then Entreats for 5 angels. I'm sitting pretty at 24 life thanks to Elixir, so I survive a hit and get another draw step...which finds another land.
G2 I blow him out with Negate like a boss, then we durdle for a while. I Cranial his Entreats, but he quickly finds a Jace and starts +2ing. I eventually manage to sneak in a Jace of my own, just in time, too, as his Jace was at 13. Naturally he has the final remaining copy in his hand already, and I can't find an answer to the third Jace before dying. He had some truly bullshit Counterbalances this game (he boarded out 2 of his Terminuses because this version is creature-light, but he left one in as a reset button. I attempt to hardcast Primeval Titan on like turn 4 or 5, and be blind-flips the sole remaining Terminus, as the only 6 in his deck. Sick life). I also never saw Future Sight or Magus.
R2: Moatless Rector Nic Fit
One of my converts. He's not running Moat, so he is running Armada Wurm, a second Thragtusk, etc. Not one of my lists, but it's still a solid build.
G1 I drop Future Sight fairly early, and proceed to generate a -ludicrous- amount of advantage of it. Seriously, the card is stupid. I didn't have Top or anything to break it going on .... just Future Sight by itself. I drown him in cards for a while, then I assemble the combo and Tendrils him for something approaching infinite.
G2 he comes out really aggro while we rip each others' hands apart with Therapy. I make a crucial misplay here where I don't allow him to sac his Rector and Extirpate it, choosing to Extirpate his Therapies instead for some really dumb reason. That stupid Rector ends up punching me to death, as I sat at 1 life, but able to block his Thragtusk and his Witness....just not the Rector, too. Armada Wurm did serious work for him this game.
G3 starts with like 8 minutes left on the clock. We play pretty quickly, and I land a Future Sight effect as we start going into time. He had been beating me down pretty badly, but I stabilized with Baleful Strixes, which he was unwilling to attack into with his Sigarda. I get turn 1. I do a bunch of stuff off the top of my deck, and see a Primeval Titan. I sigh, cast it, get my lands, and make a few more small plays. I still don't have a Top, or the Helm, whereas he has no cards in hand, but a Top and an Arena in play with something like 15 life. He draws, tops, and draws, and tops, plays a land and like an Explorer or something, and ships it back. T3 I do a bunch of stuff but fail to hit a Top. I do find Helm, and Tendrils is on top of my deck when I pass turn. I've built up a sandbagged onslaught of one-drops in my hand, including both Extirpates, just in case I have to try to Tendrils him the hard way, since I still haven't found a Top. He Therapies me, naming Helm, and then Surgicals it. Welp. T5 of turns, I finally hit my goddamn Top, Do a bunch of 1-drops, draw a few cards with Top, do a few more cheap things, and then Tendrils for just over lethal. My head was ****ing hurting at the end of this.
R3: RUG
He mulls to 5 g1 with me on the play. I therapy him naming Stifle, and tilts, and reveals 2. Sick mull to 3, brah. Unsurprisingly, he never does anything approaching worrisome status this game. I just run him over.
G2 I don't exactly remember what happened, but I know I won. Yay me!
R4: Death and Taxes
He's 3-0, and is in my car, so he's probably going to scoop me to be sure I get in the top 4 (we had a bad turnout because everyone is saving money for the GP this weekend). We play game one anyway, and I slaughter him. He manages to Revoker my Deeds, but then he gets blown out by Engineered Explosives. I loop EE with Acadamy Ruins, and he scoops.
T4: Death and Taxes
Hey lookit.
G1 he can't name all of my activated abilities with Revoker, and I blow up his shit. I think he got stormed out here...not sure.
G2 I Therapy him naming Revoker, he has 2...his Virtue gets Ruined...and I inflict a Pernicious Deed upon him. He walks away grumbling about never being able to beat Nic Fit.
Finals: Goblins
Not much to say here. G1 he has the NUT HIGH, double Lackey into Ringleader + Kiki-Jiki, into like triple Piledriver. Sick life.
G2 I put up a better fight, but he manages to kill me with exactsies just before I go infinite.
I use some credit I had on system previously along with my winnings to collect my 4th Tundra, as I continue working on re-acquiring staples that I had to get rid of a while back.
So....things I learned about Future Fit:
--) Most importantly, it IS viable. However, it is very subpar compared to Scapewish and Rector at this point. I do believe that at least a good amount of that can be blamed on the specific list. I have some ideas (to be discussed further below) that will likely improve the deck, and I do think that it stands a chance of becoming a solid choice for a BUG version.
--) Needs more vs hard aggro. Most specifically, it needs a Damnation somewhere in the 75. There were several times when I wished I could just Grim Tutor->Damnation and be done with it, rather than having to jump through hoops with Deed and EE. Goblins is a serious problem, and as their star continues to rise in the metagame, something needs to be done about that for this deck to flourish.
--) Grim Tutor is the sex. The only time I felt uneasy about using it was vs Goblins. Otherwise, it found me what I needed, when I needed it, with no strings attached. It helped assemble the combo, it fetched Future Sight, it did everything. The mana cost was never a problem. Rector still wants Intent, because saccing a creature is good, but I think that Grim Tutor is the go-to Tutor outside of Rector. Unfortunately there are some cost obvious problems therein, but if I was going to try to find room in Scapewish for a tutor, for example, it would be Grim. Highly recommend.
--) Tendrils maindeck was really frustrating. I kind of want to use Cunning Wish instead, to get Brain Freeze, but there were too many times where the fact that my storm spell was Tendrils was actually important (mini-Tendrils for lifegain, etc). I wouldn't have beaten my Nic Fit opponent if my storm spell was anything but Tendrils. My possible solution is Death Wish. I'm fine paying half of my life for a Karakas against Show and Tell, for example. Etc. There is a very high possibility that this is a bad idea, but I'm going to test it at some point.
--) Elixir is secretly amazing. 5 Life on demand is surprisingly sweet -- Elixir is like a Thragtusk that shuffles back in after it comes into play. It was a very solid shuffle effect for Future Sight, Top, and Brainstorm, and the 5 life was relevant on multiple occasions.
--) EE/Ruins is a hell of a note. Having an EE alongside the Deeds was great, as it allowed me to dodge Pithing Needle and Revoker all day. Obviously, there's the problem of finding it, which is where the Grim Tutors came in for this version, but I don't know that it's something that other versions can take much from, unfortunately.
--) Stronghold/Ruins are amazing with Future Sight. This is obvious and self-explanatory, but actually getting to do it just feels plain dirty.
--) Vraska is ass. I boarded her in a couple times, and she ended up not pulling her weight. I'm pretty sad about that, because I wanted her to be as good as she is in standard. Seems it's not in the cards, though. Firm "Stay Away" opinion, now.
--) Jace is ass. The only times Jace did anything for me all day was when he was acting as a 4-mana Destroy Target Jace -- even when I had Future Sight out and was actively trying to set up brainstorms with FS....he just didn't do anything. As backwards as it seems, I don't think Future Fit wants planeswalkers.
--) The combo is weird to pull off. You ideally want a Top anyway, because Nic Fit is much better of a deck with Top. You don't care about having Tendrils, because when you go off, you'll have it. That just leaves the Helm was the weak point. Funny side-note about Helm: it completely undoes Thalia. I would NOT be surprised to see Storm combo decks running Helms in the future just to deal with Thalia (not saying they will, just that I wouldn't be surprised). Redundant Future Sight effects make babies cry, but finding Future Sight was still a problem. I don't think that splashing white for Rector or E.T. is the answer.
--) The deck is very mana-hungry. If I try Death Wish, I kind of want to put in Coffers/Urborg, to solve that problem (and to make mini-Tendrils much easier, since you could theoretically loop 2 Tops for storm count if you have the mana). On a related note, Coiling Oracle is sweet with Future Sight, since you always know when to play it for full value.
--) Needs more bullets. The Grim Tutors and Witnesses allow the deck to act as a lot more toolbox-y than I thought it would. It's really hard to tell when it's correct to shuffle in with Elixir vs when to let your yard sit there for Witness. This seems very anti-synergistic, but I actually didn't have much of a problem with it. Always being able to reuse your stuff is amazing.
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I'll try to present an updated list at some point. I definitely have some ideas. But yeah -- there's some thoughts from Future Fit's maiden voyage.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cybey
Firepaw, could you provide us with your decklist?
4 veteran explorer
2 eternal witness
3 wood elves
3 huntmaster of the fells
2 thragtusk
1 primeval titan
4 cabal therapy
4 green suns zenith
2 bonfire of the damned
2 scapeshift
4 burning wish
3 pernicious deed
3 sensei's divining top
2 valakut, the molten pinnacle
1 volraths stronghold
1 phyrexian tower
4 taiga
1 stomping ground
2 bayou
3 badlands
2 swamp
3 mountain
5 forest
Sideboard:
1 reanimate
1 maelstrom pulse
1 collective voyage
1 tsunami
1 damnation
1 innocent blood
1 chainers edict
1 pulverize
2 phyrexian areana
3 carpet of flowers
1 virtues ruin
1 scapeshift
The sideboard definatly needs a cranial extraction or slaughter games, but i dont know what to cut for it
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viridia
Why did you board out a Cabal Therapy vs Miracles? It's probably better to board out another Explorer and keep the discard in :)
That probably would have been better, I havent had any practice vs miracles with this deck so i wasent really sure how to board right against it
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Firepaw: I would board out either a Collective Voyage, or a Phyrexian Arena to get a Slaughter Games in. As you alreayd have 3 SDT main deck, I would get an Arena out.
@Arianrhod: In Death Wish, "Danger of Cool Things" I read :laugh:
Other than that, you're just convincing me to play Future Sight as a Rector target in BGw :smile:
I would continue trying Jace in your list, just to make sure he's not so worth it.
I don't see Vraska outside BG or BGw builds, just an intuition.
Do you have some thoughts about the Magus, and Volrath's Stronghold ?
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Arianrhod, wouldn't it just be better to cut the Tendrils combo and run a third Jace and a couple Liliana? With the ruins lock, you should be able to deal with anything that happens on the board. Other thing is, three colors and 3 lands that tap for just colorless in a deck where you need UUU, BB and GG. Plus, you often times end up wanting GU or UB on turn 2. I would consider cutting reshaping the manabase a little to make things go smoother.
