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Say you cast this floating R1 in order to cast PiF with B float. Daze would also be annoying if you had cast Infernal floating BR3. Similar story with pierce. This card does have some downsides (e.g. LED is worse with it, AdN is weak alongside it), but it's not thaat much more vulnerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcind
Doomsday is an interesting one-off with this card too, as you don't need to discard your hand (=cantrip), which doesn't use the yard to substitute AdN.
To be fair, there have been tight situations where I had 6 mana in my pool and Tutoring for a win condition against a potential soft counterspell was an option. So in that case, IT or DP is not enough to win against Spell Pierce/Daze. Yes, having more than 6 mana means IT is better at defeating soft counters than DP.
IT is also clutch when you have multiple copies and need to use IT to tutor for Rituals or LEDs when you don't have enough mana. IT is also great when you need to hail mary a PiF turn by using your one IT in your graveyard to tutor for LED to make blue mana to flashback cantrips.
That being said, a build of AnT with 4 IT and 2 DP is probably better than the 4 IT, 1 GT and 1 other card configuration.
I think that there is some potential Dark Petition could be good. The ability to get any card without emptying your hand is pretty powerful, but not necessarily worth the higher initial mana investment. Compared to Grim Tutor, it nets one more mana and doesn't cost life, which does sometimes matter. The fact that it suffers against Rest In Peace or DRS in a long game is a bummer, though. I think it'll be fun to test it, anyway.
IT floating 6 would be DP floating 3, both beat soft permission.Quote:
Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya
6 Mana pre-IT would float 4 and be stopped by soft permission also.
What am I missing?
DP is worse in these situations, but at times will still work, and sometimes is even better. For example, you can go DR,CR,DP for LED,LED, Infernal to create hellbent. 5 mana is alot for pre-combo turn setup though. A PiF scenario that occurs somewhat often is when you can make 5 mana with 2 IT's left in the graveyard, DP works as well in those spots.Quote:
IT is also clutch when you have multiple copies and need to use IT to tutor for Rituals or LEDs when you don't have enough mana. IT is also great when you need to hail mary a PiF turn by using your one IT in your graveyard to tutor for LED to make blue mana to flashback cantrips.
That's what I was trying to say, but I couldn't get the wording correct on my end.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieW89
You're going to feel super bad if grim tutor gets dazed or spell pierced, just saying. This costs less than grim tutor mana wise and life wise unless rest in peace, crypt, or something else happens that removes the spell mastery from this/makes this worse than virtually every tutor on the planet in black.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcind
As for this being bad outside combo turn yeah it is. So is grim typically. Using rituals to power this out is no different than using rituals prior to infernal tutor. If their spell pierce counters this it would have countered any grim tutor or infernal line as this costs 2 mana in basically every scenario except when flipped to ad nauseam and people certainly shouldn't be advocating running this alongside ad nauseam.
Hello all,
I'm a bit new to Legacy, I've been playing Dredge for a few months but am starting to get tired of it, and after proxying a few different decks I've decided ANT is what I want to build towards. I've already got some of the needed cards thanks to Dredge, but unfortunately I don't have any dual lands yet. While I'm saving up for the duals, would it be better to play with shocklands or basics? I'd like to start getting practice with the deck as soon as I can, even if the mana base isn't perfect yet.
Also, I've got $260 in store credit, so I was going to go ahead and grab one dual land now. I'm thinking a USea would be the best dual to start with? The other option is to get a Tropical Island AND Bayou/Badland, but it seems like most lists only need green for the SB, so the USea would be the best dual to get first.
Thanks all! Looking forward to trying this deck out for real soon.
I feel a little excited about the new tutor, really want to see it work in the future.
I think the most advantage of this card is allowing you to play a more grinding game in some slow match-up like miracle and without losing speed against other match-up.
It seems interesting. Definitely wants to be in a build with Empty. I can see this in a Grinding Station-style deck, but I'm not convinced that's better than a traditional ANT build except against Miracles.
I probably missed the discussion here, but did anyone see the Prague Eternal lists? Pascal is a fucking machine. Props. That build looks awesome. Martin's build looked very interesting too.
No way you're dumping 2nd Pif for this, not even if it was actual Demonic TutorQuote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
this... interesting in TES thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Narcind
well you have to spend 5 mana to play this card so grim its cheaper, life loss suckes but if it feels bad playing dark ritual into grim and get counter, feels a lot worse playing double ritual into DT and get daze/pierced too :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
i think it would actually be a good card in a burning wish shell then in a normal ant, even in griding station, maybe wong but its my first impression!
I actually don't see what you are trying to do here- it produces BBB, not three mana of any color;
otherwise I would have been able to understand it, as it would've been pretty good in casting Iona without the need of having a LED.
In normal ANT i rather play Grim tutor, the commitment pre combo turn is way to huge.
Decks i think this fit are more all in; as a black belcher variation or spanish inquisition
You rather pay 6 mana & 6 lifepoints for a PIF loop than 4 mana & 0 lifepoints? Imo the talk about pre-combo use to find additional mana or stuff is off. You still have infernal to do this in case your hand gets clogged with Petition + Tutor at onceQuote:
Originally Posted by Madsk
Yes, since you commit 2 rituals to even cast itQuote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
The card is just awesome.
Graveyard hate hurts more.
But its just great.
And cabal ritual
+
New tutor for doomsday
Bam call it a day.
I would not say no to a deck playing 2 pif 2 new tutor. 1 empty.
With all 9 rituals and may be not all petals.
Seems really sweet (:
http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-conte...es-Sanctum.jpg
Im prety sure this is mot really good. But I just post it. Best thing is it dodges decay. And now that ant will be gone....
Thoughts?
It's a 4 mana enchantment that doesn't do anything by itself.
Sure it makes anything costing >1 mana incredibly interesting, but you probably have to burn a ritual to get it onto the battlefield.
I don't know what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
And by the way you can simply play Dark Ritual > Doomsday. (I don't get why a presumably one-off Doomsday should be played in ANT.)
i just love the new tutor. Would insta accepto to play it and say bye bye to nauseam card to the side.