4 Card Blind

Shamelessly steal FTW's deck from last round - lets see how that works out

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
Fury takes care of one of your 1/1s while Fiend takes care of the other. WW

6-0

2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
me

3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights
Your long game beats me. LL

0-6

4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite
Fiend takes Grist, Fury kills Hex Parasite but then it keeps coming back to force the draw. DD

2-2

5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads
Too many threats - I can Fury on Dryads and Fiend another, but I can't beat the 1/2 you have left with my 1/1 - you can always attack first and win the race because if I ever block I lose. LL

0-6

6. dte: Sheltered valley, Phantasmal image, True-name nemesis, Saprazzan skerry
Fiend takes your TNN, Fury kills your Image(Fiend) but I can't race Sheltered Valley. DD

2-2

7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
Turn 2 LD is blank. Fiend takes Reaver and Fury kills Plotter. WW

6-0

8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
The mirror! No way for either of us to make progress. DD

2-2

9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon
OTP I can take Gargadon with Fiend but I can't effectively interact with Blizzard-Herder without giving you a 2/2 that I can't beat. This is a really nice deck design. LL

0-6

10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
Fury takes care of one of your 1/1s while Fiend takes care of the other. WW

6-0

11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
The last person I expected to beat to be honest, but turn 2 LD is blank. Fiend takes Reaver and Fury kills Plotter. WW

6-0

Total: 30 points by my math

5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan LL
2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights WW
4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite WL
6. dte: Sheltered valley, Phantasmal image, True-name nemesis, Saprazzan skerry DL
7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver DD
8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon LL
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk LL
11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver DD

5w7d = 22 points

I was hoping for too much durdling it seems.

7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
OTP I swap our lands but can't play Plague Reaver, so we draw. OTD you get your combo. DL

2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
You take Plague Reaver with the Fiend and Fury my Plotter. LL

3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights
I take your land and win with Plague Reaver, which is too big to be killed with Fury. WW

4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite
You get Hex Parasite, but I can always play Plotter before you remove both counters from Skerry so we draw. DD

5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads
OTP I get Plague Reaver, but can't attack since you can trade your Dryads for it. You can't attack since Plague Reaver can eat your creatures. OTD you play Dockhand and tap one of my lands forever. DD

6. dte: Sheltered valley, Phantasmal image, True-name nemesis, Saprazzan skerry
OTP I take your Skerry and give you Tendo Ice Bridge after I use the counter, so you can't play anything and we draw since you gain life from Sheltered Valley. OTD you get True-name which is too much for me. DL

8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
You take Plague Reaver with the Fiend and Fury my Plotter. LL

9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon
OTP I play Plague Reaver and win before Gargadon comes into play. OTD you destroy one of my lands and I can't play anything. WL

10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
OTP I swap our lands but can't play Plague Reaver, so we draw. OTD you get your combo. DL

11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
Whoever gets Plotter first wins. WL

4W 7D 9L = 19

I remembered this at the last minute so I copied a deck and hoped for the best. Turns out Tendo Ice Bridge is a lot worse than Undiscovered Paradise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa

7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
OTP I swap our lands but can't play Plague Reaver, so we draw. OTD you get your combo. DL

I remembered this at the last minute so I copied a deck and hoped for the best. Turns out Tendo Ice Bridge is a lot worse than Undiscovered Paradise.

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It is indeed. I forgot that both you and FTW can't cast Reaver after swapping lands. TNN instead of Reaver would have gotten you both a ton more points as well, I reckon.
Edited my results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Happy new year!
And I'll start 2022 by disagreeing with both previous posters about our MUs:

Unfortunately for me, you could weld titan at the end of my turn, attack me with it, and hold welder to exchange back titan if I cast image. So it would be 6-0 for you instead. Image does what you think, but welder is better than :)

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
0-6 as per above, even if I hope Asthereal is right and I am wrong.

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You're right of course. Using Welder EOT is very techy, and indeed allows me to respond to Image by Weldering again, making a land and a row of 3/3s, after which I can yet again Welder to make the 9/9 again.
My deck is much better than I thought it was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

Shamelessly steal FTW's deck from last round - lets see how that works out

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Same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon
OTP I can take Gargadon with Fiend but I can't effectively interact with Blizzard-Herder without giving you a 2/2 that I can't beat. This is a really nice deck design. LL

0-6

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I think you (I)((we)) can force a draw here OTP. T1 evoke Fury, target itself with all the damage, then sac Fury to Tower with the trigger on the stack. Then you can Fiend Gargadon and have two 1/1s against the Akki. You can’t attack into it, but now silk can’t race. DL?

On second thought you can just attack with the Goblin token before saccing it, getting you a point ahead in the race. That should also force a draw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads
Too many threats - I can Fury on Dryads and Fiend another, but I can't beat the 1/2 you have left with my 1/1 - you can always attack first and win the race because if I ever block I lose. LL

0-6

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Same here. OTP you can attack with the Goblin token before you sac, so the 1/2 has to stay back forever. DL

Agree with the rest of your results. 32 for both of us?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

I think you (I)((we)) can force a draw here OTP. T1 evoke Fury, target itself with all the damage, then sac Fury to Tower with the trigger on the stack. Then you can Fiend Gargadon and have two 1/1s against the Akki. You can’t attack into it, but now silk can’t race. DL?

On second thought you can just attack with the Goblin token before saccing it, getting you a point ahead in the race. That should also force a draw.

Same here. OTP you can attack with the Goblin token before you sac, so the 1/2 has to stay back forever. DL

Agree with the rest of your results. 32 for both of us?

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Agree. In scenarios like this you should be able to force draws and avoid losses, since you have turn 1 haste damage from the 1/1 token.

You have 2 options for turn 1 sacrifice fodder:
1) 1/1 token after it attacks
2) evoke Fury pre-combat (at opponent's turn 1 play or at itself), then attack with 1/1 token

The first line leaves Fury in hand to remove an opponent's threat. The second line leaves you two 1/1s. Both lines let the token deal damage on turn 1, so opponent should never be able to race with a non-haste 1/x (Fury can kill their turn 1 play).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite me

11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
Disagreement, you can’t play your second 3 drop with only 1 depletion counter, which I can force without having to play out my rot farm. DD 2-2

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I missed the line where you don't play your land.

F vs R OTD
T1 Hex Parasite / tapped Skerry
T2 don't play Rot-Farm to protect it / Plotter trades Rainbow Vale for Stronghold (in response, you tap Stronghold to remove 1 depletion counter)
Now you can still never cast Grist (Rot Farm returns Rainbow Vale to my hand) but I can't cast Plague Reaver.

DD agreed

Both maxx! and FTW are better at playing my deck than I am, will update the spreadsheet.

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
Goblin smash! 6-0

2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
Fury :( 0-6

3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights
Fury :( 0-6

4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite
Goblin smash! 6-0

5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads
Goblin smash! 6-0

6. dte: Sheltered valley, Phantasmal image, True-name nemesis, Saprazzan skerry
2NN 0-6

7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
LD 4-1

8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend
Fury 0-6

9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon
LD 3-3

10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
That's me, playing Goblin combo!

11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
LD 4-1

Total: 29 points

Two disagreements.

Pretty sure I'm right vs FTW. Plague Reaver can't win until turn 6, and Heavyweights can land on turn 5 with Rainbow Vale. If Plotter is played it eats Fury and Reaver never lands. 2-2

Asthereal vs GSM is an obvious win for GSM OTP, as Reaver can kill Welder. So Asthereal OTP:

Furnace, Welder | Furnace, Welder
Discard, Recur Titan | Discard, Recur Gearhulk (Welder) 20-21
20-12 | Pass
20-3, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Titan) 20-12
20-9 | Pass
20-6, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Flyer) 20-9

Now Asthereal can't attack and Gearhulk can eventually recur twice more to kill the remaining tokens and win. 6-0 GSM. In retrospect there's a better line turning a token into a Great Furnace with Welder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

Pretty sure I'm right vs FTW. Plague Reaver can't win until turn 6, and Heavyweights can land on turn 5 with Rainbow Vale. If Plotter is played it eats Fury and Reaver never lands. 2-2

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Oh, right. I miscounted and thought T2 Reaver killed on T5. It needs 4 attacks.
So then I can't race you and am forced to play for the draw by stealing your land. DD 2-2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

Two disagreements.

...

Asthereal vs GSM is an obvious win for GSM OTP, as Reaver can kill Welder. So Asthereal OTP:

Furnace, Welder | Furnace, Welder
Discard, Recur Titan | Discard, Recur Gearhulk (Welder) 20-21
20-12 | Pass
20-3, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Titan) 20-12
20-9 | Pass
20-6, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Flyer) 20-9

Now Asthereal can't attack and Gearhulk can eventually recur twice more to kill the remaining tokens and win. 6-0 GSM. In retrospect there's a better line turning a token into a Great Furnace with Welder.

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Damn, that would mean that welder is not banned?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

Two disagreements.

Pretty sure I'm right vs FTW. Plague Reaver can't win until turn 6, and Heavyweights can land on turn 5 with Rainbow Vale. If Plotter is played it eats Fury and Reaver never lands. 2-2

Asthereal vs GSM is an obvious win for GSM OTP, as Reaver can kill Welder. So Asthereal OTP:

Furnace, Welder | Furnace, Welder
Discard, Recur Titan | Discard, Recur Gearhulk (Welder) 20-21
20-12 | Pass
20-3, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Titan) 20-12
20-9 | Pass
20-6, Recur Furnace | Recur Gearhulk (Flyer) 20-9

Now Asthereal can't attack and Gearhulk can eventually recur twice more to kill the remaining tokens and win. 6-0 GSM. In retrospect there's a better line turning a token into a Great Furnace with Welder.

---

Yup, I missed the life gain. I had calculated the 3/3 flyer would win it there, but it's too slow against 12 life.

Assuming scores are all correct now, these are the standings for round 8:
1. silkster: 41 - 4,1
2. dte: 36 - 3,6
3. alphastryk: 32 - 3,2
3. maxx!: 32 - 3,2
5. Asthereal (TO): 29 - 2,9
5. GoblinSmashmaster: 29 - 2,9
7. PJim: 26 - 2,6
8. Wrath of Pie: 22 - 2,2
9. Reeplcheep: 20 - 2
10. RoosterCocoa: 19 - 1,9
11. FTW: 14 - 1,4

Which leads to these bannings:
Akki Blizzard-Herder
Chancellor of the Forge
Dunes of the Dead
Fury
Greater Gargadon
Mesmeric Fiend
Phantasmal image
Phyrexian Tower
Saprazzan skerry
Sheltered valley
True-name nemesis
(I'm locking these in now, as I am about to open the next round. Any changes in scores after now won't affect these bannings anymore.)

And the season now looks as follows:
1. PJim: 31,5
2. dte: 30,3
3. silkster: 28,8
4. Asthereal (TO): 23
5. RoosterCocoa: 21,7
6. Wrath of Pie: 20,1
7. Reeplcheep: 20
8. GoblinSmashmaster: 19,7
9. FTW: 19
10. maxx!: 18,5
11. alphastryk: 18,2

ROUND 9 OF SEASON 11: LEGACY CREATURES & LANDS BANNATHON has started.

I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 9, so you can start sending me your decks.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 12th of January at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Quicksand, Dauthi Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S11R098 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Happy deckbuilding! :smile:

I think silkster's results are correct, except vs WoP:

WoP OTP:
Land, Dryads | Mountain, Garg10
20-17, Dryads | Garg9, Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Garg7
Dockhand, trade Dryad for both dudes, 20-14 | Garg6
WoP races with 4 damage per turn.

Land, Dryads | Mountain, Garg10
20-17, Dryads | Garg9, Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Akki, Garg6
Chump with 2/2 and sac, Garg5, 20-14 | Garg4
WoP races with 6 damage per turn.

silk OTP:
Mountain, Garg10 | Land, Dryads
Garg9 Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Akki, Garg6 | 17-20
Garg5, 17-18 | 14-18
Garg4 | 2/2 chumps then sacs, Garg3
Gargadon will land with enough life left to attack safely.

So I make it 3-3. Doesn't change bannings at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

I think silkster's results are correct, except vs WoP:

WoP OTP:
Land, Dryads | Mountain, Garg10
20-17, Dryads | Garg9, Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Garg7
Dockhand, trade Dryad for both dudes, 20-14 | Garg6
WoP races with 4 damage per turn.

Land, Dryads | Mountain, Garg10
20-17, Dryads | Garg9, Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Akki, Garg6
Chump with 2/2 and sac, Garg5, 20-14 | Garg4
WoP races with 6 damage per turn.

silk OTP:
Mountain, Garg10 | Land, Dryads
Garg9 Dunes, Akki, Sac Dunes, Mountain, Akki, Garg6 | 17-20
Garg5, 17-18 | 14-18
Garg4 | 2/2 chumps then sacs, Garg3
Gargadon will land with enough life left to attack safely.

So I make it 3-3. Doesn't change bannings at all.

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Looks like a solid analysis. I've changed these scores in the doc, but will leave them marked in case someone finds another line and wants to change them.

Hello again. Busy week with school starting up. I didn't have that much faith in my deck because it lost to basically everything in my gauntlet, but also everything else in my gauntlet lost to Fury. Adding in the face that Fury likely still has room for innovation, I figured there would be lots of it. Let's have a look now. Disagreements against both Plotter decks.

Me: silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan WL
2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights WW
4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite WW
Oh, Hex Parasite! I almost played that this round!
I didn't realize that you could recur Grist until I started skimming everyone else's posts. Very cool!

5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads WL
6. dte: Sheltered Valley, Phantasmal image, True-Name Nemesis, Saprazzan Skerry WL
I thought this was WD, but I see now why my True-Name Nemesis decks looked so weak: no Sheltered Valley to let me store up life and get back on the offensive.

7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver WD
Same math as against FTW, except that you don't give me a land to sacrifice, so you get 1 more hit in, but I hold the fort at 2 life.

This was on my shortlist too. I'm glad to have been an inspiration and happy to have you confirm that I wasn't missing something that was obviously more powerful than Plague Reaver. I didn't like that this version couldn't trade away the Tendo before playing the Reaver unless you can trade for a black source, which seemed very unlikely.

8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk WL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Rainbow Vale, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver
9. silkster: OTP I play T2 Plague Reaver, which kills before Gargadon comes down. OTD you play T2 Akki and blow up my land. WL 3-3

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I think this is WD. On the draw:
Skerry; Mountain, Suspend-10.
Reaver, passing the Vale; S-9, Dunes, Herder.
Reaver attacks into Herder, and I sacrifice Mountain, Dunes, Vale, and Herder (S-5, make a 2/2); S-4.
Reaver attacks into 2/2 (sacrificed, S-3); S-2.
Hit for 6; S-1.
Hit for 6; Gargadon. But it takes 3 hits to win and I die in 2, so we stare.
PS: Deck got stolen and made top 3. FeelBadMan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

9. silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon / 0-6, Great find on Blizzard Herder.

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Thanks! I've been trying to make Blizzard-Herder work since the Peasant Banathon. :tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

Hello again. Busy week with school starting up. I didn't have that much faith in my deck because it lost to basically everything in my gauntlet, but also everything else in my gauntlet lost to Fury. Adding in the face that Fury likely still has room for innovation, I figured there would be lots of it. Let's have a look now. Disagreements against both Plotter decks.

Me: silkster: Mountain, Dunes of the Dead, Akki Blizzard-Herder, Greater Gargadon

1. Asthereal (TO): Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan WL
2. alphastryk: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
3. PJim: Mercadian Bazaar, Fury, Squee, the Immortal, Boldwyr Heavyweights WW
4. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Volrath’s Stronghold, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Hex Parasite WW
Oh, Hex Parasite! I almost played that this round!
I didn't realize that you could recur Grist until I started skimming everyone else's posts. Very cool!

5. Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Rishadan Dockhand, Old-Growth Dryads, Old-Growth Dryads WL
6. dte: Sheltered Valley, Phantasmal image, True-Name Nemesis, Saprazzan Skerry WL
I thought this was WD, but I see now why my True-Name Nemesis decks looked so weak: no Sheltered Valley to let me store up life and get back on the offensive.

7. RoosterCocoa: Tendo Ice Bridge, Saprazzan Skerry, Vedalken Plotter, Plague Reaver WD
Same math as against FTW, except that you don't give me a land to sacrifice, so you get 1 more hit in, but I hold the fort at 2 life.

This was on my shortlist too. I'm glad to have been an inspiration and happy to have you confirm that I wasn't missing something that was obviously more powerful than Plague Reaver. I didn't like that this version couldn't trade away the Tendo before playing the Reaver unless you can trade for a black source, which seemed very unlikely.

8. maxx!: Chancellor of the Forge, Fury, Phyrexian Tower, Mesmeric Fiend WD
10. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furance, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk WL


I think this is WD. On the draw:
Skerry; Mountain, Suspend-10.
Reaver, passing the Vale; S-9, Dunes, Herder.
Reaver attacks into Herder, and I sacrifice Mountain, Dunes, Vale, and Herder (S-5, make a 2/2); S-4.
Reaver attacks into 2/2 (sacrificed, S-3); S-2.
Hit for 6; S-1.
Hit for 6; Gargadon. But it takes 3 hits to win and I die in 2, so we stare.
PS: Deck got stolen and made top 3. FeelBadMan


Thanks! I've been trying to make Blizzard-Herder work since the Peasant Banathon. :tongue:

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Don't forget to send a deck for next round. :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Don't forget to send a deck for next round. :wink:

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Thanks. I'm running a little late. I just have a zoom meeting and then I plan to cobble something together over lunch.

DECKS FOR ROUND 9 OF SEASON 11: Legacy Creatures & Lands Bannathon

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads
2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
4. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Island, Rishadan Cutpurse, Rishadan Cutpurse
5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar
6. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Brutal Cathar
7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman
9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
10. maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier
11. silkster: Scrubland, Brain Maggot, Chancellor of the Tangle, Student of Warfare

Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll create a tab for the round in our Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

6. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Brutal Cathar
Always feels risky not doing anything until turn 3. Very powerful answers though.

vs

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads / 6-0, Plenty of time to stabilise, Hexdrinker won't get close to pro-everything.
2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau / 3-3, Too fast OTD. OTP Cathar turn 3 stabilises.
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk / 6-0, OTD Turn 3 Cathar on Welder, followed by turn 4 Sliver, turn 5 activation wins.
4. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Island, Rishadan Cutpurse, Rishadan Cutpurse / 0-6, turn 2 land hate.
5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar / 0-6, turn 2 land hate.
7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk / 6-0, as vs GSM.
8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman / 6-0, taking Ooze out should do it.
9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan / 3-3, OTP Cathar takes Titan before it can do anything. OTD Welder can sac Titan again to make life difficult.
10. maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier / 6-0, Lots of time to stabilise.
11. silkster: Scrubland, Brain Maggot, Chancellor of the Tangle, Student of Warfare / 6-0, Whichever creature Maggot doesn't take can kill it or Student and win.

Asthereal's scores for round 9.

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads <-me

2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau WW
Dryads trade for Vine, Frosty for Walla and Hexdrinker either races or levels up until it becomes big enough to smash through Tribe.
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk WW
Frosty kills Welder.
4. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Island, Rishadan Cutpurse, Rishadan Cutpurse WW
OTP I get three permanents out, allowing me to sac all but the 3/3, which wins against two 1/1s. EDIT-OTD I can open with Frosty and sac it. The turn after I play Dryads and sac that. I end up with Hex and a land to level it up for the win.
5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar DD
EDIT-EDIT: I don't play anything. If you drop Plotter, I kill it with Frosty. If you then make Cathar, I drop Hex and win. If you drop Cathar first, I drop Hex and win again. So you also have to do nothing and we draw.
6. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Brutal Cathar LL
I'm not fast enough to stop you from recurring necro to kill my team.
7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk WW
Frosty kills Welder.
8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman WW
Frosty kills the Ooze before it becomes big. Apprentice can only tap one of my boys and both become too big for your team to handle.
9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan WW
Frosty kills Welder.
10. maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier DD
Firebrand kills my Hexdrinker, Frosty kills your Student and my 3/3 gets enough hits in that you can't race me anymore and have to keep the 4/1 first striker back on defence? I don't see a better line than that.
11. silkster: Scrubland, Brain Maggot, Chancellor of the Tangle, Student of Warfare WW
Maggot has to take my Frosty, or I trade you for it and get my card back. Hex and Dryads race the Student and the 1/1, see below.

Total: 46 points. Holy crap that's a lot better than I expected from 5 minutes of work! I must have made tons of mistakes in my analysis.. :tongue: EDIT: yup, many mistakes.


Against silk:
s1: Maggot, take Frosty
A1: Dryads
s2: Student
A2: Hex, attack for 3 (17)
s3: Student L1, no attacks, as you'll allow me to attack with the 2/1 Hex next turn, and you don't want to trade Hex for Student
A3: Hex L1, attack for 3 (14)
s4: Student L2, becomes 3/3 first strike, attack with just Student (17) / or keep Student back, see below.
A4: Hex L2, attack for 3, (11)
s5: Student L3, attack for 4 (as Hex will become 4/4 next turn anyway) (13)
A5: Hex L3, becomes 4/4. Attack for 7 (4) and from here I win.

s4: keep Student back attack with Maggot (14 vs 19 now)
A4: Hex L2, no attacks
s5: Student L3, no attacks
A5: Hex L3, becomes 4/4, attack for 4 (10)
s6: Student L4, no attacks
A6: Hex L4, attack for 4 (6)
s7: Student L5
A7: Hex L5, attack (2)
So Student doesn't make it to 4/4 double strike in time and I win anyway.

5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar

T1 tapped Farm
T2 Tendo, remove counter for U, steal your best land and give you colorless Tendo
T3 Cathar (using Farm + your land)
I think I finally got this deck right.


1. Asthereal (TO): OTP you only get 1 play before I steal your land. You can't cast a 2nd threat, then I can remove your 1 creature with Cathar.
OTD you get 2 creatures. You probably want Dryads and Hexdrinker (which you can level with colorless mana), but Cathar can still take Hexdrinker and flip into a 3/3 first strike. Too slow to race, but I can draw.
Edit: If you do nothing, I can't play Cathar first because I'll lose to Hexdrinker ultimate (even after land swap), so I have to do nothing too. DD 2-2


2. Reeplcheep: T2 Cathar exiling Vengevine. OTP I'm at 16 life, OTD I'm at 8 life. Then I start attacking with 3/3 first strike and leave 1/1 to block Rootwalla, which lets me race. WW 6-0

3. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP I steal your land after you play a 1/1, then exile the 1/1 with Cathar.
OTD you have Welder + Neonate ready. I still play T2 Vedalken Plotter. You fizzle the trigger by Welding Great Furnace into Gearhulk, killing the Plotter. Then when I play Cathar, if I target Welder you ignore it, and if I target Gearhulk you can Weld it out. WL 3-3

4. alphastryk: OTP T2 Plotter takes your Farm and you can't play spells.
OTD I play untapped Tendo Ice Bridge first, so I can pay for Cutpurse without losing lands. Brutal Cathar beats 2 1/1s. WW 6-0

6. PJim: T2 Plotter disrupts your mana. WW 6-0

7. dte: Same as GoblinSmashmaster. WL half-smash 3-3

8. Wrath of Pie: OTP you only get 1 creature, which easily loses to Cathar.
OTD you can make 2 creatures (probably Bloodhall Ooze + DRS), but Cathar exiles Ooze and then wins. WW 6-0

9. RoosterCocoa: Same as GoblinSmashmaster. WL 3-3

10. maxx!: OTP you get only 1 creature, which loses to Cathar.
OTD you can make 2 creatures (probably suspend Keldon + L1 Student). I still get your land before Student can be 3/3, so Plotter can trade with it. That means I can wait for Keldon to unsuspend before casting Cathar to win. (If you make Firebrand + Student instead, you can kill Plotter but then Cathar can exile Student freely). WW 6-0

11. silkster: OTD I lose to T1 Brain Maggot exiling Cathar into T2 Student (I can steal your land to stop level up, but your 2 1/1s beat my 1 1/1).
OTP if Brain Maggot takes Cathar, Plotter steals your land to prevent Student, then Plotter would win the race (or trade and get back Cathar). If Maggot takes Plotter instead, Cathar can exile Maggot (get back Plotter), then I steal your land to stop Student from levelling up.
WL 3-3

44 points (14 wins, 2 draw, 4 loss)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads <-me

5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar WW
I open with Dryads. If you trade lands, I win. If you do nothing I also win. So you have to Cathar it. Then I make Hex, which will turn into a 4/4 well before you can kill me, and then you can't attack anymore before it becomes 6/6 pro everything that should race you.

---

You open with Dryads. I trade lands and you can't cast more threats. In this version of the deck, I can still play my threat after trading lands, so I can Cathar your Dryads and win.

If you have both Dryads and Hexdrinker before I take your land (on your play), that forces me to use Cathar on Hexdrinker. I've taken too much damage so my 3/3 first strike won't race, but it can hold you off.

WD 4-1 for me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

You open with Dryads. I trade lands and you can't cast more threats. In this version of the deck, I can still play my threat after trading lands, so I can Cathar your Dryads and win.

If you have both Dryads and Hexdrinker before I take your land (on your play), that forces me to use Cathar on Hexdrinker. I've taken too much damage so my 3/3 first strike won't race, but it can hold you off.

WD 4-1 for me?

---

Remote Farm does not make blue mana. Somehow my brain decided your land made blue mana instead of white, which means you wouldn't be able to trade lands before casting Cathar.

Finally trying the Pirate plan, might not be good enough anymore without Saprazzan Skerry though since I can't play Footpad or get a more useful land in there. It beats most of the slow storage or bounce land decks and does decently against Welder but doesn't do great against multiple threats especially if I'm forced to take the initiative.

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads
If you lead with Frostling and dump that to the first Cutpurse, you're always able to get down either Dryads or Hexdrinker (with a land) and I can't beat either. LL

0-6

2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau
You're always able to sac your land to my first Cutpurse and Tribe to the second. I can't beat your 4/3. LL

0-6

3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
I'm always able to force you to sacrifice one of Neonate, Welder or Furnace and your deck needs all 3 to combo. The best you can do is create 2 1/1s when you're OTP to force the draw. WD

4-1

4. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Island, Rishadan Cutpurse, Rishadan Cutpurse
This is me

5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar
Plotter taking my Farm is too strong. I probably shouldn't have played something that can't beat Plotter. LL

0-6

6. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Brutal Cathar
Bouncelands are what this is designed to beat. WW

6-0

7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
I'm always able to force you to sacrifice one of Neonate, Welder or Furnace and your deck needs all 3 to combo. The best you can do is create 2 1/1s when you're OTP to force the draw. WD

4-1

8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman
OTP I'm able to blow things up turn 2 & 3, so the best you can do is play out Deathrite shaman, then lose your land to the first Cutpurse. On your turn 2 you use Deathrite and the land in your graveyard to play another creature (which will be sacrificed to the second Cutpurse), leaving you with a 1/2 I can't get past. D

OTD you're able to land 2 creatures (Ooze, then Deathrite), then sacrifice your land to the first Cutpurse and nothing to the second (using Deathrite for mana). Your Ooze keeps growing and my 1/1s are bad. L

1-4

9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
I'm always able to force you to sacrifice one of Neonate, Welder or Furnace and your deck needs all 3 to combo. The best you can do is create 2 1/1s when you're OTP to force the draw. WD

4-1

10. maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier
Suspend threat is really good against me. LL

0-6

11. silkster: Scrubland, Brain Maggot, Chancellor of the Tangle, Student of Warfare
You're always able to play Maggot turn 1, taking one of my Cutpurses, then you sacrifice your land to the second. I can't even beat Maggot from there. LL

0-6

Total: 19 points. Blegh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads
If you lead with Frostling and dump that to the first Cutpurse, you're always able to get down either Dryads or Hexdrinker (with a land) and I can't beat either. LL

0-6

---

Right. I can open with Frosty. That means I don't have to go for the draw and can win when on the draw as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
I'm always able to force you to sacrifice one of Neonate, Welder or Furnace and your deck needs all 3 to combo. The best you can do is create 2 1/1s when you're OTP to force the draw. WD

4-1

7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
I'm always able to force you to sacrifice one of Neonate, Welder or Furnace and your deck needs all 3 to combo. The best you can do is create 2 1/1s when you're OTP to force the draw. WD

4-1

9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
I'm always able to force you to sacrifice one of Neonate, Welder or Furnace and your deck needs all 3 to combo. The best you can do is create 2 1/1s when you're OTP to force the draw. WD

4-1

---

I don't think you're right on these when on the draw. You do win OTP by forcing the first creature or Furnace to sac. OTD:

Furnace, Welder | Farm
Neonate | Island, Cutpurse

The Titan version wins here, activating Neonate and Welder, then sacrificing Titan to get 3 3/3s. If the Gearhulk version tries the same thing, it brings in Gearhulk (killing Cutpurse), then sacrifices it or Welder, whichever is kept dies to the second Cutpurse. If instead they stand still, they have to sacrifice Furnace, or a 1/1, making getting Gearhulk impossible. If they sac Furnace, there'll be no mana to save a 1/1 from the next Cutpurse, while if they sac a creature they can, but it'll be 2 1/1s vs 1 regardless.

So 6-0, 6-0, and 3-3, I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJim

I don't think you're right on these when on the draw. You do win OTP by forcing the first creature or Furnace to sac. OTD:

Furnace, Welder | Farm
Neonate | Island, Cutpurse

The Titan version wins here, activating Neonate and Welder, then sacrificing Titan to get 3 3/3s. If the Gearhulk version tries the same thing, it brings in Gearhulk (killing Cutpurse), then sacrifices it or Welder, whichever is kept dies to the second Cutpurse. If instead they stand still, they have to sacrifice Furnace, or a 1/1, making getting Gearhulk impossible. If they sac Furnace, there'll be no mana to save a 1/1 from the next Cutpurse, while if they sac a creature they can, but it'll be 2 1/1s vs 1 regardless.

So 6-0, 6-0, and 3-3, I think.

---

It is possible to pay for cutpurse:
T1 Welder / land
Attack / cutpurse, pay. Otherwise Welder attacks 20 times.
Neonate, titan, kill cutpurse - - > win
3-3?

GoblinDTEmaster results for Round "Goblins!"

7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
That's me!

Total: 100 points

I thought with fury gone my aggro deck might be good again.

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads
LL per above.

0-6

2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau
Me

3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
Aggro < combo. LL 0-6

4. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Island, Rishadan Cutpurse, Rishadan Cutpurse

WW per above

6-0

5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar
Brutal cathar as the three drop of choice is wrecking me. LL
0-6

6. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Brutal Cathar.
WL per above
3-3

7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
Aggro < combo 0-6

8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman
The most important thing is getting counters on your ooze. Since that happens on your 3rd upkeep I believe it should be WL. 3-3?

9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
Aggro < combo LL 0-6

10. maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier
This seems way too slow. WW 6-0.

11. silkster: Scrubland, Brain Maggot, Chancellor of the Tangle, Student of Warfare
You can’t use chancellor mana for Student, so it is too slow to matter OTD, and OTP maggot wins anyways.

WL 3-3

I did not expect this much exile removal and combo. Oof.

7W 0D 13 L for 21/60.

maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads
Our Fanatics trade with the level up guys, and Keldon beats Dryads but takes so long to land that I can't race. 2-2

2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau
OTP
T1 Student / Everything (16 - 20)
T2 Level Up / Attack (8 - 20)
T3 Level Up, 3/3 First Strike / Attack, block Vengevine (4 - 20)
T4 Firebrand, kill Rootwalla / No attack
T5 Suspend Keldon, wait until it's safe to start attacking
OTD I'm too slow. 3-3

3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
Firebrand kills Welder and then Neonate can't race my other guys. 6-0

4. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Island, Rishadan Cutpurse, Rishadan Cutpurse
OTD
T1 Farm / Student
T2 Cutpurse, sac Student / suspend Keldon (4)
T3 Cutpurse, sac land (20 - 19) / Keldon (3)
T4 Attack (20 - 17) / Keldon (2)
T5 Attack (20 - 15) / Keldon (1)
T4 Attack (20 - 13) / Keldon, attack (16 - 13)
I win this race easily. 6-0

5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar
Can't beat this at all. 0-6 I do nothing at all until you play a creature. You never do because giving up either ETB trigger kneecaps your ability to beat me. 2-2

6. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Brutal Cathar
This is very powerful and I'm not fast enough. 0-6

7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
Firebrand kills Welder and then Neonate can't race my other guys. 6-0

8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman
Thornscape can give DRS First Strike to trade with Keldon, but not while tapping Student on the same turn. This seems fairly tricky to map out but I think Firebrand always trades with Ooze, Student Levels Up to 7 eventually, and Thornscape is forced to tap Student pre-combat which lets Keldon attack freely. Might need to work out the math but I think there's enough time for all of that. 6-0?

9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan
Firebrand kills Welder and then Neonate can't race my other guys. 6-0

10. maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier
This is me :]

11. silkster: Scrubland, Brain Maggot, Chancellor of the Tangle, Student of Warfare
OTP I stick Firebrand, Brain Maggot takes one of my bigger threats, and then I play/suspend the other. Whenever you play Student I kill it with Firebrand before it levels.
OTD
T1 Maggot (take Firebrand) / Suspend Keldon (4)
T2 Student, attack (20 - 19) / Student (K3)
T3 L1, no attack (trading Students is bad, trading Maggot lets me kill your Student) / L2 (K2)
T4 L3, Student attack (20 - 16) / L3 (K1)
T5 L4, no attack / L4, Keldon attack
Keldon trades with Student even at max level. I should win this one. 6-0

2+3+6+6+2+0+6+6+6+6 = 43

I expected Welder, possibly Lackey, and other decks that rely on x/1s, so Firebrand was something I wanted to play. I had a hard time settling on the heavy hitters (I think Asthereal probably went in a better direction), but the general idea seems to have done well.

edit: updated results against FTW

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar

T1 tapped Farm
T2 Tendo, remove counter for U, steal your best land and give you colorless Tendo
T3 Cathar (using Farm + your land)
I think I finally got this deck right.

10. maxx!: OTP you get only 1 creature, which loses to Cathar.
OTD you can make 2 creatures (probably suspend Keldon + L1 Student). I still get your land before Student can be 3/3, so Plotter can trade with it. That means I can wait for Keldon to unsuspend before casting Cathar to win. (If you make Firebrand + Student instead, you can kill Plotter but then Cathar can exile Student freely). WW 6-0

---

I just had a thought: what if I just do nothing (hold my land) until you play a creature? If the first creature you play is Plotter, I can Firebrand it and then sit doing nothing again. If you play Cathar without exiling anything, I can suspend Keldon and you can't beat that. DD?

(I have a feeling this line could change a lot of your matchups, unless I'm missing something.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maxx!

I just had a thought: what if I just do nothing (hold my land) until you play a creature? If the first creature you play is Plotter, I can Firebrand it and then sit doing nothing again. If you play Cathar without exiling anything, I can suspend Keldon and you can't beat that. DD?

(I have a feeling this line could change a lot of your matchups, unless I'm missing something.)

---

Yup, I can do that as well. Just sit there, and if FTW drops Plotter, I make Frosty and kill it. Then if he makes the 2/2 I get to drop the rest of the team and just win.
If FTW drops the 2/2 first, I make the Hexdrinker, and that boy will just become 4/4 and then 6/6 prot ev. So FTW has to wait as well, and we end up drawing our games.

9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads
Frostling is too much for me. LL

2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau
You win on turn 3, while Triplicate Titan comes into play on my turn 2 and has vigilance, so I win. WW

3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
OTP I get Triplicate Titan and even if you kill it with Noxious Gearhulk I win with the flying 3/3 while holding the other two 3/3s back to block. I missed that you can recur the Gearhulk every 2 turns. OTD you either destroy my Goblin Welder or beat me down with your Insolent Neonate, so I lose in either case. LL

4. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Island, Rishadan Cutpurse, Rishadan Cutpurse
OTP I get Triplicate Titan before you can play a Cutpurse, so I can just sacrifice it to your first Cutpurse and win with 3/3s. OTD I can't keep anything in play. WL

5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar
OTP I can get Triplicate Titan at the end of your second turn to avoid it being hit by Brutal Cathar, and if you play either Brutal Cathar on Goblin Welder or try to Vedalken Plotter my land I can use Welder in response. OTD you can take my land with Vedalken Plotter when I just have a 1/1, and then win with Brutal Cathar. WL

6. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Brutal Cathar
You can only play Brutal Cathar on turn 3 at the earliest. OTP I get Triplicate Titan on my second turn, then attack you to 11 on my third turn, holding up the Goblin Welder activation. Necrotic Sliver doesn't help you, if you try to target Triplicate Titan with Brutal Cathar I use Welder to kill it, and if you try to target Goblin Welder with Brutal Cathar I win too quickly for it to help. OTD I hold the Goblin Welder activation until the end of your third turn, so you either have to play Necrotic Sliver or use Brutal Cathar targeting Goblin Welder. If you play Necrotic Sliver, I attack you to 11 on my next turn. On your next turn if you try to use Cathar on Triplicate Titan I sacrifice it with Goblin Welder and Weld it back into play on my next turn, and you are too slow to kill everything. If you use Necrotic Sliver on my Goblin Welder on your turn 4 instead I sacrifice the Triplicate Titan to get the 3/3s. On my next turn I attack you to 2, after which you lose. If on your turn 3 you instead play Brutal Cathar targeting my Goblin Welder, I attack you to 11 on my next turn. You then play your Necrotic Sliver, then I attack you to 2. You can then kill the Triplicate Titan with the Necrotic Sliver, but I then win with the flying 3/3. WW

7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk
Same as GolbinSmashmaster. LL

8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman
OTP you can't disrupt my combo, and while you can tap my Triplicate Titan down it costs you 1 life each turn, so you lose. If you try to play the Bloodhall Ooze first, you take 9 damage and let me get 3 3/3s, which means I still win. OTD trying to stop my combo with Deathrite Shaman won't let you win, since then I win with Insolent Neonate while you hold up mana for Deathrite Shaman. I think this still ends up in the same situation as OTP so I win. WW

10. maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier
Fanatical Firebrand leaves me with a 1/1 with menace. LL

11. silkster: Scrubland, Brain Maggot, Chancellor of the Tangle, Student of Warfare
Turn 1 Brain Maggot always takes a part of my combo. LL

8W 0D 12L = 24

8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman

1. Asthereal (TO): Copperline Gorge, Frostling, Hexdrinker, Old-Growth Dryads LL
2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau WL
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk LL
4. alphastryk: Remote Farm, Island, Rishadan Cutpurse, Rishadan Cutpurse WD - Hilarious that Deathrite Shaman actually did something other than enable Ooze to grow.
5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar DD - We stare.
6. PJim: Volrath's Stronghold, Orzhov Basilica, Necrotic Sliver, Brutal Cathar LL
7. dte: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Noxious Gearhulk LL
9. RoosterCocoa: Great Furnace, Goblin Welder, Insolent Neonate, Triplicate Titan WL
10. maxx!: Inspiring Vantage, Fanatical Firebrand, Student of Warfare, Keldon Halberdier LL
11. silkster: Scrubland, Brain Maggot, Chancellor of the Tangle, Student of Warfare WL

4w3d = 15 points

Playing two 1/1s may not have been a good idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman
2. Reeplcheep: Blazing Rootwalla, Tireless Tribe, Vengevine, Plateau WD - I should barely survive on the draw thanks to the power of blocking.

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I don’t see how this works since you need to keep both DRS and ooze alive till your 3rd upkeep, which is after I threaten leathal.

T1 dump hand 16, DRS 15
T2 attack with vine & wall, no blocks 8 ooze 7
T3 attack with vine and walla, you have to trade with walla to survive, leaving you with no 3/3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

I just had a thought: what if I just do nothing (hold my land) until you play a creature? If the first creature you play is Plotter, I can Firebrand it and then sit doing nothing again. If you play Cathar without exiling anything, I can suspend Keldon and you can't beat that. DD?

(I have a feeling this line could change a lot of your matchups, unless I'm missing something.)

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Should have specified this in my post. If opponent does nothing, I play out my lands and eventually get to cast Cathar "Turn 1 OTP" (opponent has 0 permanents in play).

T1 Brutal Cathar / land + 1 drop
T2 Vedalken Plotter, steal land & give opponent colorless Tendo Ice Bridge

That leaves me with a 3/3 first strike + 1/1 vs opponent's 1 drop. That's basically always a win for me.
3/3 first strike + 1/1 races regular 3/3 Old-Growth Dryads
3/3 first strike + 1/1 beats Mogg Fanatic effects
3/3 first strike + 1/1 races suspend Keldon Halberdier (I get in a bunch of damage before it resolves, then 3/3 attacks into 4/1 from much higher life so they have to trade, then 1/1 wins)
3/3 first strike + 1/1 races Student of Warfare without level mana

The 1 case I hadn't thought of is Hexdrinker. It can level up with my colorless mana. Hexdrinker could eventually go ultimate and win, so vs Hexdrinker I have to do nothing to hold back Cathar.

DD vs Asthereal. The rest are still wins for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

8. Wrath of Pie: Mana Confluence, Thornscape Apprentice, Bloodhall Ooze, Deathrite Shaman

5. FTW: Remote Farm, Tendo Ice Bridge, Vedalken Plotter, Brutal Cathar DD - We stare.

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See above.

If you do nothing:
I play Cathar first.
You play any 1 creature (1/1 or 1/2).
I play Plotter, stealing your land and giving you colorless Tendo Ice Bridge with 0 counters.
My 3/3 first strike + 1/1 races your 1-drop.

If you play a land but no creature:
I play Plotter first and steal your land. Win.

If you play out your creatures, the best you can do (on your play) is to make Ooze + DRS.
I play Plotter first, stealing your land (preventing 3rd creature or activated abilities)
Then I play Cathar exiling Ooze.
3/3 first strike + 1/1 beats your 1/2

WW for me?