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@Jandax: I'm probably being dumb again, but why does Mindbreak Trap come in against Elves? If they play Elves one at a time, the most you'll get to exile is one spell, right?
EDIT: Yeah combo, but I'm wondering what sorta elf combo this would be useful against. Glimpse into Grapeshot? It's sounding like a metagame decision based on his local Elf players. Shrug.
For Combo Elves I'm assuming.
And about this whole Steppe Lynx/Kird Ape/Loam Lion thing, it comes down to player preference. Blue blasting a Kird Ape usually means you're playing a horrible blue player as well, so don't worry about it.
Ethersworn Canonist would be an option, maybe. Also good vs other combo decks and its a beater.
I didn't bring MBT in the board for Elves! alone, but storm combo in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
Yeah it's a metagame option, a few people will pick up Elves! around here. Countering the NO is pretty much a game buster, as well as Banefire/Grapeshot with the storm on the stack. There's really nothing they can do if you have the Trap. I've noticed NO is either the sideboard package where Banefire/Grapeshot is the mainboard, either way MBT covers it.
i just drew into first at a descentlyu sized tournament (30+) at knight ware with this list
4goyf
4 nacatl
4 quasali pridemage
4 steppe lynx (in my opinion better than goyf, holy hell its so good)
4 bolt
3 chain
3helix
2 pop
2 lavamancer (i liked cutting it to two)
2 library (jitte has proven over and over to be dreadful)
4 path
2 knight
2 teeg
3 basics
12 fetches (so amazing)
5 duels (1 savannah, 2 of the others, took out a canopy i used to run for a duel, very good call between all my fetching lifeloss, and my need for a fetch target)
sb:
2grip
2 macabre
2crypt
1 relic
1 swords
1 needle
2 oblivion ring
2 reb
2 pyroblast
beat: goblins, 2 vengevival, 3 merfolk, 2 other decks-possibly one was vengevine
lost to : new horizons, eva green(manaflooded+ o ringed a deed-big misplay)
so i was 4/2 going into top 8 and was 8th place playing first and won it all the way.
so, everything comes in against vengevine. later i learned maybe not so much the blasts and the grips, but 2 blasts were ok
Quick report. We went to a 24-man playing for a Library tournament this weekend.
My list:
4 Steppe Lynx
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Path to Exile
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix*
2 Fireblast
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Forest
12 Fetch Lands
Sideboard:
1 Path to Exile
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Krosan Grip
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyroblast
*Lightning Helix is not generally in my list. However, when we got to the site and saw some of the decks.... it didn't look like Price would be that useful as most of the decks we saw were pretty weak. There did turn out to be some good decks there though.
Round 1: Goblins
Game 1 & 2 are about the same. I have lots of removal and he doesn't have as many creatures. In one game, he eventually stalls the board and I finish with 9 to the head. In the second game he kept a fairly loose hand with Wasteland, Port and Vial and didn't draw a Red source for a very long time.
Round 2: NO Bant
I think I took this in two, but I'm not sure. Games were pretty straightforward. He did get Counter/Top online in one game, but I had enough creatures in play and ways around it to not matter. Finished with Fireblast when he was at 0 cards in hand.
Round 3: RGUW CounterTop
Seemed like pretty standard Sperling type Counter Top. Spouts, Jace, Cliques, etc... Game 1 he mulls to 5 and proceeds to set up a quick CB/Top lock before I can get going. It's over pretty quickly. Game 2 is close, but I manage to keep enough pressure on and now I have more answers to CB/Top with K Grips and Blasts. Game 3 I mull to 5 and manage to pull it back. He floods pretty hard and starts digging for an answer but I have a K Grip for his top and burn for him. Decent player I've seen around before.
Round 4/5 ID
Quarters: Dark Zoo
Both of these games were pretty unfair. I had active Lavamancer while he had Dark Confidant and Bloodhall Ooze. In the second game, I had burn/removal for his creatures while he stalled on land. Both games were very, very quick and mostly a blowout.
Semis: Stax w/Baneslayers
It looked like a pretty weak Stax build, but it had bad written all over it. He was dropping Ghostly Prisons while I was trying to Path his Baneslayers. Eventually he had more BSA than I had Path. Game 2 was even worse. He had Suppression Field while I had Fetchlands. It was over real quick.
Overall, the deck did well. Even against decent players with decent decks (First 3 more than in the top 8 really) it was performing well. The sideboard is a bit of a mess, but we were trying to scout and saw a TES player so threw the MBT in for that. Dredge managed to knock out my buddy, so even if I did make it to the Finals, it is fairly unlikely I could have beat Dredge with only Bojuka Bog. We were mostly hoping no one would be a big enough jerk to run Dredge.
stikl needs nore curseled scroll mother fucjker!!!!!!it wins games i promise!
Steppe lynx is for n000bs , the cards sucks and is situational, play good cards dainmt it!
Steppe lynx is fine. I'm currently still testing with it and I'm not sure if I prefer it yet but early game he can be a super beater, and even late game he makes a fetch land a decent draw. worst case scenario he's a cheap blocker but I'd still pay 1 white mana for 4 damage, if he accomplishes that and/or gets a relevant creature of theirs out of the way I'm fine with that.
It's really Steppe Lynx vs. KirdApe vs. Loam Lion vs. Noble Hierarch. Hierarch is great imo, I've been testing him alot against Dreadstill and Merfolk. He really helps you shrug off their mana denial, and curve into big things sooner. He's also a great follow-up to your turn 1 Nacatl, giving him exalted and leaving a mana open for another dude or some burn. Turn 3 Elspeth is also strong, he's proven himself to me.
I just feel Hierarch doesn't do enough for the deck. I mean the exalted damage is pretty much all he supplies as zoo doesn't need too much acceleration. Late game it really is a dead draw being a 0/1 that dose nothing where as steppe lynx at least is a 2/3 or a 4/5 sometimes. and once you get more than one creature out there the exalted triggers pretty much don't do anything that pridemage doesn't (making your goyf just big enough to beat through theirs)
It's definitely not a card for Naya Zoo. GRW midrange decks sure can use Hierarch. Otherwise, there are tons of more aggressive one drops out there. It'd be interesting to see what people would cut for it
I need a lesson in the NH matchup, and how much i need in my board for the mu; i just dont have any experience playing it yet. can someone link me to the thread/ give me an idea of what the mu is like?
PT Amsterdam Legacy Side event: 91 players, top 16 (14th) Wotc decided to make it a cut to top 4 after 7 rounds of Swiss (presumably because of time as it started at 4)
Was at the PT today, what a blast. Tons and tons of different styles of Magic. I traded and cheered friends on in the main event until the Legacy gig began. The list I used-
4 Nacatl
4 Lynx
3 Lavamancer
4 Pridemage
4 Goyf
2 Teeg
3 KotR
4 Bolt
4 Path
3 PoP
2 Fireblast
2 Chain Lightning
1 Library
11 Fetch
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Sb-
3 Pyroblast
3 Crypt
3 Choke
3 Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap (mvp all day)
The sideboard was to shore up good matches and have outs to worse ones. I will be happy upping the Traps to 4 at loss to a choke or crypt, but for a larger tournament like this I went with what I had. Maybe extra removal like StP would have been useful, I'll try that out tomorrow.
Round 1 - Belcher
I keep a Nacatl hand with Teeg and KotR on the curve, two fetchlands and a pair of bolts. Solid. He won the roll with a natural 20, then proceeded to Land Grant showing me 2 Red Rituals, a Black one, a Mox, a SSG and an Empty the Warrens for 10 goblins. I wasn't even mad. Actually, it was kind of impressive because he started the whole show off with a natural 20. I put on my best retard face, stared at my hand and scooped on to sideboard in the traps. One thing I did was shuffle my whole SB into the deck and pick out 15 before shuffling up. He had no idea what I was playing.
Game two I mull to 6 into a Trap. Never mind the lynx, two fetchlands and a pridemage next to it. Lady Gaga wrote that hit song for moments like this. Ever feel like you're going to auto-win? Feels good man. I get in there for 8 with the lynx before he land grants twice over those two turns showing some mana and a Burning Wish. He chains into the Wish for a Pyroclasm from the board, but he has drawn no business. I was threatening some low life with a couple cards in hand so I guess he felt my board presence was enough to get me to use my Trap on it. After I put him low with a pridemage and lynx, I sac the pridemage on his Mox and pass. We move on.
Game three was another time for Trap to shine. I keep a MBT/Nacatl hand and put dudes on the board. He's doing his thing and storms into an EtW on 6 storm, so stacking the storm triggers and exiling them, I beat Belcher :D
+3 MBT -3 Path
1-0
Round 2 - Goblins
My opponent walks up, sits his deck face up on the table whilst adjusting his chair. I pretend not to see that Goblin Piledriver, but I totally did a mental fistpump. Nice guy, it was even his birthday too, but a good matchup against a slack player is always good for the self esteem. Nothing to note really other than I killed him for exactsies both games. On the first game notably by attacking him with a 6/6 KotR, he blocks with his face and goes to write down 6 on his pad. Hold. Up. I ask no blocks? and he confirms. Then before combat damage I Fireblast said face for the extra 6 to finish him off. Feels good man.
2-0
-3 PoP +3 Grip
Round 3 - 4c CBtop
When it came to a goyf wall, my opponent won the first game. Never saw CB until the third game actually. Lots of top activations game 1. Game two was more lopsided in my favor. But game three I messed up hardcore. I had from the side a Choke, Grip and a Blast, after playing and losing a few creatures. There was a freshly played CB out when I untapped and would undoubtedly reveal something blind. I weighed my Grip too high and went to blast the CB revealing another Goyf. That put one on the field smashing me and one on top. Blast resolved, CB went bye. I shoulda griped it because my choke got Forced. Choke was the card that'd have more effect on the board than a blind CB. Keeping the two duals tapped down would have stalled the next two goyfs that were drawn and played...
-3 Lavamancer -4 Lynx +3 Pyroblast +2 Grip/choke
2-1
Round 4 Mirror
First time ever playing the mirror. In my year of legacy, I've never sat down to this. I had nothing to side in, so i was going to have to rely on things out of my control to eek through. Lost the roll. He curved into a KotR while I kept a Lynx hand with some burn. It got neatly removed and hsi goyf's were out of burn range.
Second game saw Lightning Helix thwart my attempt to burn him out. I thought I played well and could have drawn a different series of cards to get there, but simply didn't.
Shuffled 15 in and pulled them right back out.
2-2
Round 5 GBU Goodstuff
I don't recognize this as an archetype. He sat next to me the previous match and I saw things like Jace, top, Pernicus Deed, Bobs, etc. I win the roll, but can tell he's out of it. He mulled to 6 and called a judge on himself for not de-sideboarding. Good man. He gets a verbal warning and mulls to five after sideboarding into his maindeck. I lose my lynx but land that one Library, which was surprisingly good when I drew it those few games, on turn two. I pay 8 life to overwhelm him with green dudes. Game two he mulls to 5, but you can tell he's out of it. Good spirited guy, it was just the end of the tournament for him and we signed the slip after 15 minutes.
-3 lavamancer -3 Path +3 choke +3 Pyro
3-2
Round 6 ANT
Nice kid sitting across from me. This Nacatl and burn hand seems sweet when he ponders for turns one and two. On turn 5 he hardcasts Ad Nauseum at around 10 and goes all the way down to 3, drawing a few land and two brainstorms and two tendrils. Had there been a Ritual in that chain, he'd have been off. But my kittehs and bolt in hand made sure, that even if he didn't go for that last card and flipped an EtW to lose, he wasn't winning.
-3 Path +3 Mbt
I mull from a one lander with MBT into a Nacatl/goyf/KotR hand with two fetches and a Trap. Feels good man. I curve like a champ. His friends are watching from behind him, they don't see it either. He chains into an Infernal tutor with an empty hand only to get it exiled. Uproarious laughter then I ask, "Is it my turn now?" which only makes it sillier. He hangs on for two more turns hoping to rip a tutor or something, but we were still chuckling. I 2-0'd ANT with Zoo :D
4-2
Round 7 Mono Red Painter/stone
He won the roll, and started things off by dumping most of his hand onto the board including a Servant on Blue and REB'ing my taiga. Sad kitty got a Plateau to start getting in there, and I held up the land for bolt on the Servant. He had another Blast for my kitteh when I baited the Bolt for it. that may seem questionable but he had a mox, City of Traitors and that Servant out with two cards in hand. I had gas. I cleaned up with some burn, nothing I remember clearly.
Game two sees the both of us mulling to 5. I keep four lands and a path while he is stuck on one mountain for two turns. I get a Knight on my third turn but don't play it as he brought in some legendary red creature that has 3 abilities, 2/2 for 1RR, first one is dumb, second 1R T: discard a card So -n- So does 3 damage to a target, 4RR T: So -n- so deos 6 damage to each creature and player. It could kill my KotR so I wait until I draw a second fetchland to keep it alive. I do, and it lives. The REBs i sided in shone because a servant was yet again out and on blue. He flooded for a few turns and I just grow the knight and get there.
-2 teeg -1 library +3 REB
5-2
That record was good enough for 14th of 91. There was one pro who dropped the main event, Tom Ross. I thought I recognized him through reading a few of his articles in the past but wasn't sure. We were always sitting a chair or two away during the tournament. He's another one of those successful players who loves Nacatls. His build featured Helixs, Apes/lions and a Karakas from what i saw. It was a good tournament. I finished well for myself, played some good Magic and can't wait to do it again tomorrow.
Congrats on the job well done man.
Hi everybody, first post, after watching this forum for a while. Anyway, I played Zoo at the Amsterdam Side Events this weekend, with a quite standard list. I listed 4-3 at Friday, and 4-1 Saturday. While I’m quite happy with my results, I encountered Vengevine Survival three times Saturday (only losing from a build with wasteland, Stifle, and actual Goyfs, and a very good player who in the end went 5-0), but having quite a lot of troubles with the other two which I won. So I was wondering what the best strategy against that deck is. Shooting their T1 hierarch worked quite good for me, and boarding K Grip from the sideboard is also to be recommended, but I’m wondering what the general strategy should be, and whether Tormod’s Crypt should be boarded in. It’s quite easy for them to play around by just hardcasting Vengevines or only try to bring one back, have you use your Crypt on it, and then fill up their graveyard again. So, any suggestions?
If they play around it, it gives you more time to get them to burn range. If they can't hold onto a Survival/SHaman then their deck isn't doing much. Obv killing their creatures as they come works wonders, as they only have counters as removal. THey're more of a combo deck, and you're the aggressor. Bash face and trade creatures up when possible. I'd say proxy the deck and run some games against it post board, it'll give you a way better idea of what your list needs to and can do since we don't know what you're running.
We didn't play on Friday did we? Are you from Dortmund?
Yeah, I already thought something like that, but thx for the info. And you're right, I should start testing against it.
Anyway, we didn't play against each other friday. I'm from Nijmegen (Joost from Benelegacy), and I played against a guy from Wallonia, and somebody from I guess somewhere near the russian border (he had a name with a lot of consonants and hardly any vowels. I didn't even try to pronounce it).
Ahh okay, I think we sat next to eachother round 6 then. You were playing the mirror, I was against ANT. I remember someone saying they were from Nijmegen, it rung a bell
Yep, the best way to go about it is just test the matchup, preferably with another player who's competent in legacy.
Hi guys,
I'm in doing some statistics and I need your help.
I need you estimates about certain MUs of Zoo. If you want to help me, please click on the link below and answer 14 questions about Zoo's MUs.
Survey
Thank you for your help!
@ Crazy Eddie: I'm studying in Nijmegen and one guy who's living on my floor is called Joost, too. I know this name isn't to rare, but is there any chance that you are living in Vossenveld?
@ Jandax: I'm sorry I can't recall our conversation quite clearly, but by the time we arrived at round 6 it was 10 pm or something like that and I my skull-stuffing was no longer functioning optimal...
@ Gobolord: I'm not your neighbour, I have never even lived on Vosseveld. But Joost is a quite common dutch surname, so you're bound to run into one someday.