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Guy's can u help me with my sideboard?
I'm playing LEDless Dredge with no DR targets in main and my meta is 2 Punishing fire Maverick, 3 Blade control, ANT,Belcher,High tide,mono black Reanimator,2 Burn,U/R Delver,Affinity and 4-5 rogue tier 2 decks.
I would appreciate if you can give me advice on what to put in sideboard and give me few tips how to play vs Maverick and Blade control.
Thx.
Yeah that attitude isn't going to get you anywhere, pal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Nothing thrills me more than elitists like this who get off on insulting others to prove a point. Perhaps if you were a little more constructive and a little less abrasive, people would take you seriously. That time, however, has passed.
And Sun Titan rocks in L.E.D. Dredge. That's right. I had fun blowing games open all day yesterday, so you're obviously clueless as to what you're talking about.
Try it with Faithless Looting. Then it gets really ridiculous. Fun, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
Orange you glad Japanese foil Sun Titans are ridiculously cheap?
Turn 1:
Land, LED, Faithless Looting >> Dredge etc >> Sun Titan bringing back LED >> Faithless Looting >> Sun Titan gets haste from Flamekin Zealot >> Bring back some other three drop for funzies (I like bringing back Bridge from Below) >> Win >> Pass go and collect $200 every time... no screw that... collect $400
-Against combo decks like ANT you can run 2-3 winds of change/burning inquiry. To have more speed. Be sure to use your cabal therapies well. If you play a post-board -DR package, Iona is good against combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by vojvoda_dop
-Against reanimator you can run, Faerie macabre/leyline of the void and/or chain of vapor to bounce back reanimated creatures like Elesh.
-Burn should be an easy matchup unless they play lots of dying creatures. Iona is good against them, if you don't have Iona, Ancestor's chosen is good. If you don't have the DR package Leyline of sanctity can help(also against targeted grave hate like crypt)
-Against aggro decks or decks with permission you'll like Firestorm. And performing a DDD on turn one. Firestorm is also effective against aggro decks.
-Affinity shouldn't be too much of a problem, watch out for eventual ravagers that can remove your bridges. CT them away game 1 and side in Ancient grudge and/or nature's claim postboard.
against maverick and blade control i don't have much experience. I know that maverick probably runs scavenging ooze, which can be dangerous. And they can tutor up bojuka bog with Knight of the reliquary. Gaddock won't be a problem for you if you if you don't run DR package, except that he prevents you from casting breakthrough. So don't be reckless or he will get you with bog/ooze both he can tutor for.
Blade control, i presume you mean UW stoneforge/stoneblade. They will pobably run 4 snapcaster mages which can remove your ichorids etc... from the game by flashing back STP. And after boarding they will probably play Surgical extraction which they can flash back with snappy. You can side memory's journey or faerie macabre. Both can save you from a surgical extraction but Faerie macabre doubles as an efective card against reanimator, and punishing fire.
so my sideboard sugestion
3 faerie macabre (against reanimator, extraction, punishing fire)
3 ancient grudge/nature's claim (against affinity and artifact hate or leyline)
3 chain of vapor (against reanimator, leyline or grave hate if you can go off the turn after.
2 dread return (to have a plan B after extraction on your bridges, against combo)
1 iona (against combo)
1 FKZ (against combo)
2 Winds of change (against combo)
it's just a rough draft, but it's just so you get an idea.
however i'm more acquainted to LED dredge which has some different matchups because it can race much hate and has better MU against combo. I wrote this with the assumption of a pre-grafdigger's cage pre-fathless looting metagame.
i hope it helped
this, not only is it good it's incredibly fun and impressive too! i just feel so cool when he appears on the board with all his foil shiny glory :p. Anytime he enters the battlefield i'm pretty sure i won.Quote:
And Sun Titan rocks in L.E.D. Dredge. That's right. I had fun blowing games open all day yesterday
another card i've been loving for the SB is: Faerie macabre. we're doing a test gauntlet for eternal weekend and GP Ghent here in Belgium. Till now my only truly bad matchups are reanimator and merfolk. And i was thinking about Faerie Macabre as sideboard card because:
-He's good against reanimator and uncounterable
-he can save a card from a surgical extraction like purify the grave
-he can remove extractions so they can't be flashbacked
-he's ichorid food
-he can help against the mirror
my sideboard:
4 LotV/ 3 faerie macabre+ 1 chain of vapor
3 chain of vapor
3 nature's claim
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
3 firestorm
explanation:
I'm expecting a lot of maverick and UW stoneblade, a lot of dredge and combo(spiral tide, ANT being the main) and lots of random other decks.
- LotV: There's a lot of dredge in belgium and with looting i expect even more so maybe i'll be wanting 4 leylines
-Faerie macabre: (i explained)
-Chain: against reanimator, cage, leyline etc...
-claim: against all that is artifact and enchantment
-Iona: against mono colored and combo.
-Elesh: against merfolk and mirror
-firestorm: against merfolk, permission, goblins etc...
-ichorid: for grinding games (but i don't think he's necessary, i run 3 main deck and almost never board out my LED's)
i try to use cards that are as versatile as possible, i fell in love with chain cause i noticed my current list often just dredges from 0 to win in a second and bouncing a cage, dredging half/whole your deck and winning/caballing his cage is just awesome.
what are your thoughts on the faerie. And on the sideboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
I swear, if you try and grab my bridge from my gy for the Titan trigger one more time during playtesting, I'll bite your hand off!
What I'm testing post-Dark Ascension, thoughts/comments/opinions please:
4 City of Brass
4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Dakmoor Salvage
4 Putrid Imp
3 Ichorid
4 Bloodghast
3 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Narcomoeba
4 Faithless Looting
4 Firestorm
4 Bridge From Below
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Darkblast
1 Dread Return
Sideboard
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Darkblast
3 Dread Return
1 Angel of Despair
1 Blazing Archon
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Awesome report. I'm Now putting my dredge back together.. When i left off with led, i was trying lftl and street wraiths and probes. I've always liked the sun titan, it was what i replaced the original eternal witness with. Any thoughts on Gravecrawler? I think the extra bodies might be useful, works with led well.
-Miz
In a non-LED list, I still think it's a better option to run Careful Study over Faithless Looting just because you can cast it more reliably because your Coliseums don't tap for red mana. I haven't really tested it, but I think the likelihood of drawing a hand where you can't cast looting comes up more often then getting 3 lands in play and wanting to flash it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by laststepdown
I agree. Also, you might run into some awkward timing issues when using Undiscovered Paradise alongside Cephalid Coliseum, but this might be necessary given that you're using Bloodghast - you might want to consider not using Bloodghast at all, as it seems to me that you can live with it given that you're not going "manaless" or "hybrid". One major concern for me, though, is the exclusion of Breakthrough. Do you have a particular reason for why you decided not to use this card?Quote:
Originally Posted by 264505
Kind Regards,
jares
Awesome report, Hollywood. Thanks for sharing, it was a pleasure to read. I really would have loved to see you make top8 and beat some other pros.
I guess there's not much sense in discussing your card choices only a few days until every list will change anyway, but I'm glad that your (sometimes unconventional) choices worked out.
Still I'll have to say that I'm not a fan of Sun Titan in Dredge in general (whether with or without Lootings or LED or anything), but that's a personal choice everyone has to make oneself. From your report I had the impression that Titan was awesome in that it always locked up the game when it hit. While I'd never doubt that Titan is capable of such broken plays, it still seems that it didn't win any games for you that you wouldn't have won without him. And that's the main argument I put forward against him. The cards I'd play over him and FKZ might have been the cards that would have got you started faster against Goblins (I'm not claiming they are, that's just the thoughts that I justify not running Titan with).
After all I guess it's okay to play with or without him.
A short discussion on why Gravecrawler isn't good for Dredge can be found on Page 141Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizeri
of this forum. I hope that helps.
Cheers,
jares
Hm well i don't agree there. The reason i like to play Titan is because he makes winning in one turn happening more consistently. Where i would have cracked LED dredged a bunch, have a bad dredge and pass the turn. I can now recur him and dredge my whole deck for the win. Game 1 sure maybe you can win without him, but having him in makes the matchup better against any combo deck, reanimator or deck that maindecks some form of hate like bojuka bog. This weekend i won 3 games on turn 1 , and 4 on turn 2 while i knew my opponent had bojuka bog in his hand i wasn't scared to go off cause i knew i would bash for lethal or have an army of 6+ zombies and a titan before he could remove my grave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izor
i think many game 1's can be won without him, but having him in ups the chances against some decks, so I wonder why you would remove the DR package main if it doesn't hurt the consistency and only helps in some matchups like combo, ranimator etc... The explosiveness he offers is also good against grafdigger's cage because you can just bounce away the cage and win on the spot. A good looting list can consistently pull that off 90% of the games. i've been testing it for a week now and i'm very impressed with the looting/titan list
This is the list I am looking at playing once Dark Ascension becomes legal:
Titan Dredge
[4x] Lion's Eye Diamond
[4x] Breakthrough
[4x] Faithless Looting
[4x] Golgari Grave-Troll
[4x] Stinkweed Imp
[2x] Golgari Thug
[1x] Darkblast
[4x] Ichorid
[4x] Narcomoeba
[4x] Bridge from Below
[1x] Flame-Kin Zealot
[1x] Sun Titan
[4x] Putrid Imp
[4x] Cabal Therapy
[2x] Dread Return
[4x] Cephalid Coliseum
[4x] City of Brass
[4x] Gemstone Mine
[2x] Undiscovered Paradise
Total: Sixty-one (61) cards.
//Sideboard
[4x] Nature's Claim
[4x] Firestorm
[2x] Ray of Revelation
[2x] Memory's Journey
[1x] Ingot Chewer
[1x] Ancient Grudge
[1x] Iona, Shield of Emeria
Total: Fifteen (15) cards.
There are a lot of people who absolutely, positively refuse to play more than sixty cards in a list. I was one of those people until now. I keep thinking to myself over and over again how truly important going up to sixty-one cards can really be, and it really shouldn't be all that big of a deal. This deck has so many incredibly powerful enablers at such a cheap cost (most under CMC@1) that adding another card shouldn't be too much trouble. The oddball in my deck is Darkblast, and after last weekend, I am fully sold on going up to eleven dredgers - this being the "jack of all trades" slot.
I typically cringe when thinking about going to sixty-one, but surprisingly not now. This deck is incredibly explosive and I see no harm in balancing the deck with a healthy numbers of dredgers and enablers.
I also absolutely love the interaction between Sun Titan and LED/Coliseum. Not only does this protect your investment, but it also adds raw consistency and makes Faithless Looting that much more powerful when you want or need to flash it back. Sun Titan enables some incredibly broken plays, and there's no chance I would turn my back on it at this point. There are plenty of other slots that could fill its role, but I've tested each other candidate and I think he wins out in an LED-based variant.
The synergy is just too good to pass up.
I'm also shifting to Memory's Journey in the sideboard. After speaking with Damon (Parcher), we both really agreed it's strictly better in the instances you need to play it and unlike Purge/Grave, it allows you to shuffle lost Narcomoeba's back into your library. One could argue that it does eat it to Spell Snare, but anyone who keeps that card in against Dredge deserves to lose anyways.
Firestorm is just incredible, and it really blows open those match-ups which might seem lost. Powerfully under-costed in a deck like Dredge, I loved casting it every bit and will continue to rock a set until a better finisher-creature-killer-enabler-discard outlet becomes available.
I like the fact that in going to sixty-one cards, I would personally have to add another dredger and in the sideboard I was looking to find one more slot to deal with the Cage issue, and these changes feel appropriate and justified - especially after this past weekend's Open.
Great report. Kudos on putting-up a valiant comeback after losing the first round - a win in Round 7 would have probably put you in the Top 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
I'm glad that you mentioned your success with "Blind Therapies", as I find this to be one of the finer skills that help make this deck much more powerful. I've had a few experiences myself where a "Blind Therapy" won a game that I would have lost otherwise. I think that 60-70% is pretty good, though, and I would be delighted to get to that level of experience as I gain more mileage competitively. Would you be able to provide a quick "How-To" for a "Blind Therapy"? I've read about that a few times (and have heard about it from people that don't know what they're saying :tongue:), and it would be great to gain some insight on how your reasoning for it goes.
I was concerned after seeing that you were running only 10 Dredgers, but I guess you already addressed in the report that going with Darkblast as the 11th Dredger would have been the way to go. I also noticed that there were a few times where you opted to keep opening hands without a Dredger (I might be mistaken here). Could you provide a breakdown of why you kept those opening hands (this seemed less likely to me given that you weren't running Careful Study)?
Congrats again! :smile:
Cheers,
jars
I find that Dredge is one of the few decks that won't really have a major issue with going with 61 cards in the MD because of the rate at which the deck goes through its... errr... deck. The argument really is just based on statistics, and unfortunately, I hate to say that "being Dredge" doesn't keep the statistics of your opening hand from being affected by the numbers. It's worth noting, though, that Dredge is also one of the few decks that doesn't mind a mulligan whenever necessary. It's a good thing that you compensated by increasing the number of Dredgers, though, so I guess that that can help make up for the slight change in probabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
I'll also probably be considering going to 61 cards, given that we'll be getting more options very soon...
Kind Regards,
jares
Nice! in fact it is identical to th elist i am running now except that i run 2 careful study instead of the 2 land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
I just have some questions concerning the sideboard. While it's true that memory's journey can shuffle back moeba, isn't it a very big plus for purify the grave/coffin purge that it is excellent against reanimator? since it's game for us if they have Elesh? At first i was defending faerie macabre but i was stupid not to realise we discard it if we pop a LED anyway.
and second, we both agree that the deck is very explosive, isn't chain of vapor the better choice then? since a chain/claim package can handle leyline, cage as well as the other hate since it's most likely we will dredge a big part of our deck to directly CT the card away?
haven't tested that extensively yet though but that are my thoughts.
Memory's Journey also stops Reanimator from putting targets into play. Your opponent might get them back, but they would probably have to rely on Entomb to get that down again. Journey is just more multifaceted that Purge/Grave, which is why I'd rather run it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AEnesidem
As for Oxidize versus Chain, I would agree that Chain is more versatile, but Oxidize is definitive. You would have to rely on a set of circumstances to maximize a Chain. While it is really good, it still doesn't answer the card outright and still gives an opponent a window to replay if you can't answer it the following turn.
It would be different if your opponent had two Cages, but one is easily doable with Claim and Oxidize. You could also hard-cast a Grudge if you had to. I can see the benefits of Chain of Vapor here, and I like the idea that it helps versus Reanimator too.
No love for Ingot Chewer? I'm definitely playing two of him, alongside four Claim. The synergy between him and Thug appears too strong to go untested if Cage explodes on the scene. Isn't it appealing if you don't have to mulligan aggressively for hate and can progress your game plan while finding the hate you need?
Definitely true. If Cage really becomes the most common piece of graveyard hate (which, in contrast to the majority, I highly doubt), then two copies of Ingot Chewer alongside the Thugs can be a huge tech. I mean, as long as we don't somehow lose our lands in the meanwhile, the whole tech is even entirely counter-proof. Very appealing indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
Actually it's been brought up several times that with Cage in the format, we'd definitely have to play Claim over Chains. I don't quite think so. If we Chainj the cage EOT and start our turn with 45 cards in the graveyard (including 3-4 Therapies), I'm really curious how we're going to lose that game. I just feel that with Reanimator in the format Chain has a lot of Value over Claim. It's even viable against Scavenging Ooze. Just don't do anything for two or three turns, Chain it EOT and (especially with LED+Lootings) just combo out, Therapy the Ooze away and leave a huge board presence the turn after.
As of the post Lootings lists, I'll still never play without Careful Studies. If I can't help it I'll start cutting Putrid Imps, but I'll certainly keep Careful Study.