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Oh, we have more than Russian Children now.
You're not just dealing with the average Tinfins deck now.
http://i.imgur.com/mVwaeY8.jpg
For those that can't quite make it out
Spanish: Chain of Vapor
German: Goryo's Vengeance, Swords to Plowshares
Japanese: Reanimate, Petal, Brainstorm
Russian Children
edit- oh god huge
"I can't read your cards"Quote:
Originally Posted by Acclimation
"You're dead"
For shits and giggles, I'm going to test out a sideboard tonight of:
4 Mentor
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Bob
2 Serenity
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm (or Maybe Cavern of Souls - depends on who I see that shows up)
Just curious if Recruiter of the Guard is actually worth it to act as more copies of Mentor when needed. There was a match last week where my Mentors all got killed, and it would have been nice to have access to more via Recruiter. I think. :)
This happens even with the English ones, thanks a lot, old timey card structure.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiSchafroth
@.dk
I think Recruiter might be pretty okay, being able to run virtually 2 more Mentors seems like a winning plan.
Exactly - who needs foreign cards when you have original printing LDV? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Acclimation
It's definitely a toss-up between LDV and Chains of Mephistopheles for most confusing printed text. I think Necromancy has to be the most confusing Oracle text though.Quote:
Originally Posted by .dk
Oh yeah, I'd agree with that. Wish I could justify playing a copy of chains in this deck, so that way I could count and compare number of judge calls on chains vs. LDV vs. Russian ChildrenQuote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
I'd be lying if I said I didn't have the Gatherer page open for LDV whenever I play this deck and just have the page scrolled to the pseudo-flowchart in the rulingsQuote:
Originally Posted by .dk
Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
Deck name: Judge CallQuote:
Originally Posted by .dk
Now we just need to add some Ice Cauldron and Jandor's Ring
On a short serious note, I unfortunately wasn't able to play Legacy last night at our weekly. Had an emergency that I had to take care of, so I ended up having to leave right before the event. So no results with Recruiter in the sideboard. I do want to test that sometime though... Next week I'm likely running a different deck with some AER goodies that I've been dying to try out. So maybe in the next few weeks I'll get some matches in.
Ok, back to normal discussion of insanity.
I only went back to running LDV when I picked up an OG German copy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .dk
Hope all is okay dude
Mmmm....bomberman with ballista and hope? Assuming I can make it this Friday and snipe some Recruiters from someone I'll be testing them out and report back assuming I don't just punt the night away.
Yeah, had a dog-sitting emergency. All is well now though. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiSchafroth
And you got it - time to bomb some newbs!
3 am thoughts spurred by procrastination time.
Due to the popularity of D&T, and the upswing of BUG decks with Leovold, I wonder if a slightly faster version of the list is worth going back to. Thinking something like
14 lands
1 Chrome Mox
4 Petal
4 Ritual
7 2 mana reanimation
2 Reanimate
4 Entomb
2,1,1 Creatures
12 cantrips
4 cabal therapy
1 Collective Brutality
2 Thoughtseize
1 LDV
Essentially, we drop a land, bring back Chrome Mox, drop Tendrils and an LDV so we can run 2 Reanimate and 1 CoBru, and bring back 2 Thoughtseize. I could even see dropping the last LDV or another land for a 2nd Mox or a 3rd Griselbrand.
Ideally, we'll have reanimation on t0-2 quicker, and have a lower fizzle rate on those turns due to more artifact mana.
SB would probably just be a standard reactive board, since dropping a land would make it harder to reliably cast Mentor.
The thoughtseize/collective brutality thing is exactly what Koby suggested on Twitter yesterday too. Makes a lot of sense!Quote:
Originally Posted by Acclimation
I wonder how much chrome mox actually speeds us up though - do you remember if we actually collected that data? Or just fizzle rates? If you leave Chrome Mox as a land, and maybe switch the last LDV for another Griselbrand, I think you still might be able to run a mentor board effectively still too. Interesting ideas.
Another option might be to take some flex slots main deck and run Swords to Plowshares. That card has always been fantastic for me. I could see running Swords in the Chrome Mox slot and the last LDV in your list above. Frees up some sideboard space too - so you could fit land there if you want it (Cavern!?)
It was a combination of seeing Koby's suggestions and reading what people on the TES facebook group were talking about for their deck (adding chrome mox to speed up).Quote:
Originally Posted by .dk
I remember the data being more for comparing JVP list to regular list, but I don't remember if we were paying attention to Mox or not, although I think I was noting when I was an IMS short of continuing.
I don't know if I want MD Swords, as CoBru hits problem creatures (sans Leovold), and I would almost rather have a second copy, as it does something for us against non creature decks. I love swords out of the side, but MD seems like it skews towards a dead card unless your meta was 60% d&t/BUG, 25% creature based, 15% other. If anything, it's a card that prevents me from losing, not one that helps me win.
Regarding swords - yes, that is probably true. Was just trying to think of how we could maintain a decent mentor transformation. Maybe LDV is good enough, and you can still run a land in the sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acclimation
Hey everybody. Just wanted to say this thread is awesome. Started reading this after trying to make a shallow grave deck with proactive exile (unmask, chrome mox, gemstone caverns, even serum powder) with pull from eternity acting as entomb 5-8. That idea didn't really pan out, and after reading this forum I'm on a list that is much more similar to the consensus. The one card from my original list that really is an all-star though is unmask. To make it work you have to be a little more black, which means cutting probes for the full set of griselbrand and more discard. I still have 1 pull in the main, with a package of 2xchrome mox, 1 gemstone caverns (side out on play) and 4 unmask as proactive exile cards. I'll concede it's probably wrong and should be the 4th ponder, but the pull does win games that otherwise would be lost on occasions when you can't find entomb but mox imprint grisel with pull works. Pull obviously gets better post board. My current list:
2 underground sea
1 tundra
1 scrubland
4 polluted delta
4 marsh flats
1 gemstone caverns
1 swamp
4 griselbrand
1 emrakul the aeons torn
1 children of korlis
4 lotus petal
2 chrome mox
4 dark ritual
4 unmask
4 thoughtseize
1 collective brutality
4 entomb
4 shallow grave
3 goryos vengeance
1 reanimate
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
1 lim-duls vault
1 pull from eternity
Thoughtseize over cabal therapy: therapy is great, but I've found that especially in post board games the consistency of seize is crucial. Often game 1 you can name force of will with therapy in a lot of matchups game 1 and if you whiff you win anyways. But with so many broad answers post board, whiffing on therapy can be game-losing post board. Naming force of will and seeing surgical extraction as their only answer instead is bad times. With no probes in my list I think thoughtseize is the better option.
Seriously though, give unmask a try. It's worth the card disadvantage and constraint of adding more black, imo. You get more protected turn 1 and 2 kills because it is free, it's much better when you fizzle on your combo turn because lack of mana is often the reason for the fizzle and now you can strip their hand for free. It has even won me games that couldn't have been won with another 1 mana discard spell. Opponent went turn 1 chalice on 1 and I was still able to fully combo and cast emrakul on turn 2 after discarding grisel to hand size and then setting up recurring unmask on emrakul (entomb or thoughtseize/therapy can't keep the chain going). End of game was petal petal petal petal sac them all shallow grave for nothing unmask myself discard emrakul, net 2 mana repeat (last loop leaving 8 cards in library).
Thanks again everyone for an awesome thread and deck.
Forgot sideboard, which does highlight another drawback of unmask. The mentor board plan doesn't really work without the probes, I think, so you're pretty forced into running the reactive plan. I've tinkered around with lots of stuff, mostly the usual suspects. Chain of vapor/echoing truth, pitching needles, massacre, serenity, surgical, flusterstorm, etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblinder
Had a pretty fun time with Tin Fins today at a monthly tournament some friends and myself have started in London, this was the first one. 30 players.
Round 1 vs BUG Aluren
G1 comboed fairly quickly with double reanimation spell > DRS. G2 into man plan and lost to some quick deathrites and agents, g3 some discard into SfM and Mentor get the job done.
Round 2 vs Noble BUG
Didn't manage to get anything going in either game, Leovold backed up with Thoughtseize, Force of Will/Daze, Clique and Shamans was rough.
Round 3 vs Jund
G1 a Thoughtseize on the play takes a Shallow Grave and I'm not able to find another one the rest of the game, G2 I sided 2 Mentors and a couple of StP in but hit with Emrakul two turns in a row (SDT being mvp vs all the discard), G3 I go to 4 mentors. We discard each others hands but again top does amazing work and finds mentors + spells.
Round 4 vs Esper Deathblade. G1 I discard a Brainstorm on the play and have time to set up easily vs a SfM, side into the man plan but everyone decides to go farming G2. G3 on the play I have a disgusting hand of Mentor, Delta, Dark Rit, Chrome Mox, Disenchant, Cabal Therapy and Stoneforge Mystic. So T1 Mentor and the therapy blind hits 2 StP, and gets flashed back on a Jitte.
Round 5 vs the mirror! I'd convinced a friend of mine to play the deck too.
G1 I set up for a T2 kill with a Ponder, but he kills me T1. I side out 2 SDT for a Fluster and StP. He mulls to 4 and I end up reanimating his Griselbrand. G3 I get my first turn and have a bunch of discard into cantrips which assemble the combo.
4-1 was good for 3rd place after Swiss.
Quarterfinals vs BR Rea
G1 I therapy on the play naming Entomb and miss, see a bunch of reanimation spells and a Griselbrand with a single Thoughtseize. I take the TS with a petal and another Therapy but he draws Unmask. G2 I have the T1, but he reveals Chancellor. He then gets a Chancellor down t2 and I end up forgetting about the original chancellor reveal trigger and play an Entomb into it, costing the game. Oops, not a very fun matchup for us it feels.
The deck is still a blast to play, love it so much. Unusually I had no T1 hands except G2 of the quarters.
I put a Tendrils in as it's got me out of some sticky spots before, even though it's not needed. Didn't cast it all day so definitely removing it for the next event, probably for another Reanimate. Jace, VP was very good!
2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Children of Korlis
1 Reanimate
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
SB
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
We ran a small FNM this last weekend; sadly wasn't able to snag Recruiters beforehand... and by that I mean we were playing fun/dumb games of EMA league right up until the event started.
Only deviation from prior list was dropping a Ponder for a ToA. Notes are a bit scattered so this is 50/50 from just recollection.
Quote:
2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Reanimate
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
3 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Swamp
// Sideboard
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Serenity
1 Flusterstorm
R1: Eldrazi Post
So this was someone who showed up to play some less desirable format and we roped him into playing Legacy... only to realize he didn't have an actual Legacy deck once rounds started but something that was between modern and kitchen table.
G1: OTD Note that I have no clue what he's playing at this point so my opening hand that's just missing discard so I can go for it with protection seems the safer route. Opening turns are him playing an Island, me pondering and then him playing a 2nd Island and ... Fog Bank. I go through the motions with Gris and have to just attack for 7. Funnily enough the text on his card would have become relevant except he declines to block. I draw more cards and tendrils him - in the 20-some cards I had drawn didn't find CoK or Emmy to loop the spaghetti.
I decide to be a pompous ass and figure that if he's playing the bank I at most need to worry about counters of some sort. Take out a Top for the Fluster.
G2: This game is a turn faster and we just 22 him. Guy was good sport and just laughed about how "this is why he wants to get more into Legacy; because of all the fun and cool stuff".
R2: Nahiri Emricles
G1: OTP Opponent mulls to a fine 6 that just doesn't have a FoW to stop my T1.
Side into Mentor which isn't totally unexpected within our meta now (cough time to bring back Doomsday cough) but since our transformation allows us to keep a small part of the reanimation plan in place still feels totally fine.
G2: Open on a pretty early Mentor and strip a Council's Judgement from hand leaving a Clique which I can just send monks into and eventually trade it off. Go a few turns, resolving a Serenity against a CBalance and something else which forces him to tap out for Nahiri to snipe the Serenity meaning a free kill on the Nahiri against a mostly empty hand. At some point he Sulfur Elementals to trade/wipe my board in combat ... but we have a reserve Mentor in hand. Game basically ends with us just casting spells into CB for triggers.
R3: BR Reanimator
G1: OTP He reveals a Chancellor so I play land, Petal (remembers his trigger) and TS. Strip his Brutality (leaving him without a discard outlet) and pass back. Within the next turn or two I Therapy and Reanimate his own Chancellor and proceed to beat face. Feelsgoodman
Believe I boarded out something like -2 SDT, -2 Probe (could have been split with Ponder) for the StP and Flusterstorm.
G2: Opp mulls to 6 and leaves the scry on top then plays fetch go. I play a Scrubland before passing. He goes all in on a ahardcast Sire and like a jackass I just, "before end step; Swords the Sire". I Reanimate a Gris a turn or two later and win from there.
R4: Aluren
Frankly...I almost don't want to talk about these games (0-2). Minor salt as the opening hands were great (G1 and G2 just missing one piece or reanimation but had cantrips) and just drew the hottest of garbage after BS/pondering multiple times. I think G1 I had half my lands out of the deck?
Still love the deck; just need to get some recruiter testing with the Mentor.