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Mainly for a good non-graveyard dependant win condition. Sadly this reason is not really good to justify a 4 DP, x IT, 1 DD, 1 PiF list because DP itself is graveyard dependant. So I guess new (1-3 DP) lists should focus on PiF & Empty main.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
1) During your combo turn it doesn't matterQuote:
Originally Posted by Madsk
2) Cabal Ritual makes 5 black mana
3) If you invest 5 mana and that spell just to find a CoV or stuff like that, you're doing it wrong
Totally agree on 1 and 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
3. is why i play Grim Tutor or preordain over the new tutor. Im conservativ
In the midst of spoilers here are a couple of more ANT videos :smile:
vs Omnishow:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIqT7N5yfiU
vs D&T: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B0c471BPxE
vs Miracles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph2_0Nlgl3I
Ritual into Grim into CoV isn't an acceptable investment either, which is my point and because I don't consider tutoring for solutions a smart choice in general (aka reactive gameplan) for storm and especially for that kind of costs, the potential advantage or Grim isn't practicable, therefore losing it's relevance in the discussionQuote:
Originally Posted by Madsk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
a lot of people have not run AN main for a while now. so not sure what the difference is.
I think I would still have a hard time playing it if it refunded me all my mana. 5 up front is a huge cost.
this may create some other combo but i don't think it fits in storm much other than I guess a BW target.
undoing: someone will probably try to break this with quicken/ i could see solidarity wanting it, maybe? i have never played solidarity so i have no idea
"I don't know why you would play Wipe Away against me..." *HoldsHandWithInfernalAndDiamond*Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
lawl
Wait what? The LED is never getting bounced, but actually, I just realized I forgot that Wipe Away states any permanent so bouncing a land is legit. It's just an off the wall card against us that I wasn't really thinking about it properly :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
:tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
Thanks nevil for more videos.
Game against omni was so cool how you ended wining.
Also g1 vs miracles I would have played diferent in two diferent situations.
When you have infernal, led and rain vs a counterbalance. Not going for led 1st and loosing the rain seems odd.
Also when you have led in play. Ritual in hand and infernal. And he has 1 on top.
You should go:
Infernal, led his balance trigger resolve for if he makes brainstorm or the like you can then may be play the ritual or dont crack the led.
Seems better (:
Cool thing needle on petal. Is also a MUCH better play than the usual needle on Led hahaha
Also wipe away is quite good vs storm. If your light on sb card you can put it in.
i have won a few times in 2009 with sneak atack vs storm thanks to wipe away even when they have seen it they walked into it.
This is a bit late, but did Slosh really play 61 main / 14 side? Is Misty Rainforest the mistake?
No, 61/15, they missed Ad NauseamQuote:
Originally Posted by elovia
~Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
nice videos :) keep going with this, great job :D i still didnt saw the omni tell matchup, but agains DT i wouldn´t bring in decay, chain and massacre has to do the job i guess, with only 1 green source (outside petals) i find it not reliable enough to cut anything from maindeck, thats my opinion !
About the pyromance/dark confidant in side, how its working for you ? in that mircle matchup only xantid was MVP but i always play them :)
Hi. I know this could sound like a very assholey comment, but unfortunately ANT is a deck that needs to have the colors it needs to have all the time, for example, even if you fetch for an Island, you will still need to find yourself a way to get black mana too in order to start ritualing. Do not despair! Storm decks usually need 5 duals, and outside of the mana base and LEDs (which I guess you have them from playing Dredge) the rest of the deck is not that expensive. If you want to start playing, I would consider shocklands but don't quote me on that (probably using a more PIF oriented version, so Ad Nauseam isn't hurting you).Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin.m.garner
If would have to pick, I'd get the Underground Sea as it has been historically the most expensive dual, and you can use it in more future decks than a bayou or trop.
Good luck and hope you get all the deck together soon.
Petition seems like a huge player in the Storm archetype for me. As I personally play different types of Storm myself (TES, TNT, ANT, Grinding Station), I'm now asking myself the question where Petition would fit into every single one of those Storm variants.
TES/TNT:
Petition seems like an easy 1-off inclusion for the Wish-board. It's not an option main, because the deck relies too much on Ad Nauseam and because it already has 8 Tutors in the main, but it finally solves the issue where the 4th Infernal is supposed to be in this deck. Now it can stay in the main deck, because Petition will be the 5th copy of it in the sideboard, where it will never interfere with Ad Nauseam at all.
Grinding Station:
Petition naturally fits into this version because of three reasons: 1) it doesn't use Ad Nauseam anyway; 2) it always wanted more than 4 tutors (and some added Extraction-protection outside of sideboarded Burning Wish) and 3) it almost always had to use its graveyard in order to build lethal Storm anyway. The only question for me is how many copies the deck wants and what it wants to cut for them.
Based on the standard Grinding Station list with 2 PiF and 3 ToA, I could see the deck cut the second copy of PiF for a Petition, because it usually only needs to find one hard copy of it per game, and Petition can always work as virtual extra copies of PiF by tutoring for it. The same goes for ToA, though you'll probably never want to go below 2 hard copies of it in the main deck in order to preserve the option to mini-Tendrils your opponent once and finish him off later with the second ToA. Aside from that, the 2 copies of Preordain most lists run seem to be the most likely cuts..
In short: I'll definitely play 2 Petitions over the Preordains in Grinding Station. I'll also test the 3rd and the 4th copy of it over the 2nd PiF and the 3rd ToA and see how it goes. AN will probably still stay in the sideboard, because sometimes you just have to win fast and/or without relying on your graveyard
ANT
The traditional ANT lists with 2-3 Preordain /1 SDT and 1 Grim Tutor are in a weird place now. They've always desperately wanted more than 4 tutors, but it's simply impossible to play Petition with Ad Nauseam. The only two options for ANT I see are:
1) don't play Petition at all and keep the deck as it is. There may be an argument for playing a singleton copy over the Grim Tutor, however. Grim is already terrible when flipped with Ad Nauseam and the 2 extra life you have to pay for Petition may actually be worth it if you have to cast it post-AN, at which point it will actually save you 1 mana and 1 life overall compared to Grim. Also, if you happen to have 2 spare mana pre-AN, you may be able to IT for DP for AN, just in order to get it out of your deck before resolving AN. Sideboarding Petitions for AN would always be an option too.
2) cut Ad Nauseam from the deck in order to make room for Petitions in the main deck. Preordain/SDT are once again likely cuts, as is the singleton Grim Tutor, which is honestly strictly worse than extra copies of Infernal Tutor.
Looking at it, option 2) for ANT may actually result in essentially the same deck that Grinding Station might transform into with the addition of DP. ANT and Grinding Station might therefore merge into one single deck. Or another way to look at it: if DP turns into a staple in future Storm decks, traditional ANT could die out and DP-Grinding Station could become the new unified standard for non-Burning Wish-based Storm decks in Legacy.
I may be theorizing a lot here, but I could definitely see this happening.
Lejay previously killed me that way when he was playing Doomsday. Pretty rude...but after you'll remember this for many years ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Envoyé de mon D6603 en utilisant Tapatalk
Wait, what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Izor
Same reaction here! There is no way i would let go 2nd pif !Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
You are basically trading stack hate resilience vs more tutoring effect.
I always prefer to have PiF in hand than tutoring for it.
And also on this deck you can naturally find the tendrils with some cantrips flashbacked.
In my opinion this card is good, but we need to think about a different shell to support it.
Thank you for the discussion, guys. I can give you my view on the new tutor if someone is interested:
First of all, I think it is a nice addition to the storm pool. Sure, there will appear a lot of brews including this card since it possibly opens up the opportunity to play something like budget mono-B storm with 4 Petition/4 Infernal/4 Tendrils or similar casual Legacy piles. In light of ANT, I am very sceptical about it being a part of the list because of reasons that were already stated by Jona and others. I am sure that SI is the best deck for the new tutor, although it should only be regarded as a fun variant of storm. I kind of don't understand the hype but time will tell what is going to happen.