yeah thanks for the link i just posted in that Thread.. what questions did you have ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal
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yeah thanks for the link i just posted in that Thread.. what questions did you have ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal
k_omega here is the current list ive been testing. Im happy to explain any of the card choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Warping Wail
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Expedition Map
3 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 Crop Rotation
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Windswept Heath
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Savannah
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tireless Tracker
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
4 Primeval Titan
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Veteran Explorer
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Krosan Grip
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Rest in Peace
1 Bojuka Bog
I do have a few questions:
1) I run 3 maps and 4 Crop Rotations, because with fewer copies it's noticeably harder to find Cloudposts and to hold up Wasteland protection. Do you find yourself having that problem using only 2 and 3 copies of those cards?
2) I also find it strange that you have zero needles and yet shaved a copy of Crop Rotation, further with no sideboard Surgical to extract Wastelands. I guess the idea is to just take whatever the opponent dishes out?
3) How often do you GSZ for Oracle or Tracker?
4) When I played a similar list, I found 3 Thought-Knots to be cluttering up my hand when I wanted to be casting other spells. Was that a problem for you as well?
5) How do you like Ghostly Prison?
Thanks!
1.) I've run 4 crop rotations for a while but I had to shave cards to squeeze in Swords to Plowshares. I had a knack for drawing multiples, which often didn't seem ideal to me. Decks running wastelands usually are too fast for you to play maps as well. I often feel like I don't have time to take 2 turns off against an wasteland agro deck. Let alone they are awful to draw when staring down a chalice. I do agree, miracles can't beat map...so the more the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
2.) I had merfolk wasteland me 4 times in one game. {They copied my primetime and got of them.} Usually it's the 3rd wasteland that gets me. I do want to bring some number of surgicals back to board to help with the graveyard strategy matchups. My only issue is if I remove a creature, I can't surgical the remaining.
3.) I always go for primetime if I have 7 mana, if I don't with my current hand, I have been searching for either of them. Oracle is better if you have multiple lands in hand, tracker is good if you just have one. I'm still trying tracker, so theres a chance something else is better in this slot. It's weird because if you want instant value out of tracker with GSZ, it's a turn 5 play. If it lives through the next untap, it's been great.
4.) I've been using TKS as my thoughtsezie effects. If I have 4 mana and one in hand, I'm prioritizing that over anything else. I haven't hit a point where I TKS instead of durdled and it cost me the game.
5.) So it's what I'm trying for the agro matchups. I've used it to greatly slow down eldrazi to try to buy time. I can't get behind the dawnstrider because its a 1/1 that dies to anything. If delver has a FoW, they will force it, everytime. Unfortuantely, they can also just abrupt decay it, which is relavant.
New decklists for Titan-Post don't show up on MTG Top 8 very often, but I just found this three-color list from Joe Barry:
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
3 Flooded Strand
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Veteran Explorer
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Show and Tell
4 Terminus
Sideboard:
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling Mage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Swan Song
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
2 Hydroblast
2 Rest in Peace
1 Surgical Extraction
Source: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13633&d=280235&f=LE
Does he post here? Anyone know him? What do we think of this?
Played at a local event this last Saturday which had about 35 people in attendance. My matchups were okay, but I had a lot of fun. Omniscience is my boyfriend
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Thespian Stage
2x Vesuva
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Primeval Titan
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Platinum Emperion
2x Omniscience
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop rotation
4x Show and Tell
2x Force of Will
2x Flusterstorm
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Candelabra of Twanos
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB:
2x Surgical
2x Pithing Needle
2x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
1x Tabernacle
1x Maze of Ith
2x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Trickbind
Round 1: ANT
I recognize this player and he recognizes me. I don't interact with him much in real life, but he's on the list of people I snapchat tournament results to. He absolutely knows what I'm on.
G1:
I dork around pretty hard, represent Crop Rotation and all that while spinning a top. Top of my deck is not thrilling. I've got a force and a flusterstorm, but they eat it to some hand removal. He goes off with three LEDs in play and I'm pretty sure I'm just_dead.dec but instead of tutor chaining me to death, he makes 14 goblins. Tabernacle is burning in my sideboard, but I feel like I still have a chance here. With glimmerposts I'm at 29 life, so I'm not exactly worried. Honestly, I point out while I'm taking my turn that I should be just_dead.dec and why. I find Emprion with top, then Crop Rotate into the prerequisite Cloudpost to cast. He hits me for 14 then kinda balks when Emprion hits the table. We keep playing for some reason (I guess he was hoping I'd attack?) but after a few turns of draw go I stick titan and that's enough to scoop.
G2:
I keep a pretty spicy hand with a cloudpost, a couple trops, a force, fluster and trickbind. He t1 ponders, then passes. I draw surgical, play the trop and pass back. He plays a fetch, then duresses me, which I Flusterstorm. Then he cracks the fetch and in response to that (so he doesn't get the priority to cast another) I surgical his Duress. He's actually got 2 more in his hand and he's a bit salty about this. A couple turns later he blows a load into an infernal tutor, which I counter and he's done at that point. We talk for a bit and he comments that he's quite rusty with the deck, but still enjoys playing it.
Round 2: Bant Humans? 1-0
This deck really caught me by surprise. Apparently it placed somewhere recently but I had no idea. My opponent knows who I am thus knows what deck I'm on and I play accordingly.
Game 1: I mulligan and he plays first. He casts a meddling mage turn 2 and I feel like I have to force it, so I do. He just sticks another though and names Crop Rotation, which he's seen with Gitaxian Probe. I almost cast it in response, but I'm positive he'll counter it (which after the game he said he would). I end up just spending the whole game trying to make land drops with top and he eventually runs me over with 2/2s. I never saw a wasteland, but it's hard for me to accept that it's not coming out the sideboard or something.
Game 2: He mulligans now, and I keep a strong show hand. He probes then therapy's me on turn 2, and I cast a Brainstorm off with Top and hide my snt pieces. There was actually a second show and tell in the top three which I leave in my hand (and he names) thus making it seem like I've messed up the SnT plan. I cast a show and tell turn four that's protected with a flusterstorm that nabs a force from him. I put in prime time and power out an eldrazi in a couple of turns. Still no wastelands, but I leave in all the crop rotations and bring in needle anyways.
Game 3:
This is a bit more rough for me. I have a top in my opener, which he sees, but I don't cast it turn one because I also have a fluster storm and crop which might be relevant. However, he just casts meddling mage and names top, which is very hard for me. I've got a show and tell -> omni -> ugin though, and I feel like if I make it to turn 4 he can't really beat that. However. He has another meddling mage, so I force pitching flusterstorm. I go for the show and tell, but it gets forced. Not too worried since I've got another, but he actually has Sanctum Prelate, which absolutely isn't something I can beat. He's beating down hard, so I get a Tabernacle, which isn't actually correct. Should have gotten Eye and just tried to rip cloudposts. He eventually kills me with 2/2s. I feel like if I knew more about this deck, I would have been a lot more successful in this matchup, as I played very loose in game 3.
Round 3: U/R Delver 1-1
Never seen this guy in my life, so I don't know what to expect. We greet eachother and he seems in pretty good spirits. I'm a bit down on myself from playing so poorly the last game, but we laugh and joke a bit.
Game 1: He goes foil snow covered island into ponder, so I figure he's on miracles or something. I just play cloudpost go and he's like "Aaah, here we go" untaps, casts Storm Chasermage and probes/BS. I play another cloudpost, top and spin. I've got the goods on top. The omni for the SnT in my hand, and an ugin. He uplays monastary swiftspear, delver, bolt and a probe. I slam the show and tell, put in omni, wipe his board with ugin, then cast primetime for a chasm and an eye, saccing my trop I had just played. He just concedes there and we get on with sideboarding.
Game 2: I expect to see a price at some point here, but who knows. He mulls, then goes mountain swiftspear. I play a karakas into top and pass. He bolts me twice, cracking for three. I spin and see i'm set up to SnT omni again and play bojuka bog. On his turn he shrugs, then bolts me, and attacks. I'm at six now, he's got one card in hand and two volcanics untapped. I've got SnT, omni, platinum emperion and two primetimes. My land is a misty. I think about it for awhile and realize I pretty much just have to go for it (also that if I get basic, he can't snap kill me with a price) so I show, and he has nothing. Cast all my spells and kill him. He apparently had boarded out Daze (which I told him was incorrect) and the last card in his hand was a force with no matching blue card.
Round 4: Jeskai Nahiri
This guy and I have played a bunch of times and he's always got a spicy brew. I've sat next to him every round so I know he's got wastes and standstills.
Game 1: We play land go for awhile, he wastes me, I crop rotate, he wastes me again (a tropical island while I have 2 cloudposts??), but eventually he casts Nahiri with five lands, which I decide to force even though I've got Newmrakul in my hand, just because she seems like a lot to deal with. He doesn't force back, which I take as a green light, and crop rotate into cloudpost then cast Newmrakul. He reads it and is like "Whatever~" so I draw his card for the turn. His hand is like, JtMS, Scalding Tarn, Engineered Explosives and Swords. I counter his own jace with the counterspell he draws, then cast EE for zero. On my turn, he tries to Swords the Emrakul and I have him read the card again. He laughs a bit and we go to game 2.
Game 2: He wastes me a bunch of times (three? Felt like five) and I've got three lands in play and a top. He's beating down hard with a Containment Priest and a mishra's factory, and I'm running out of options. I've got SnT, Omni, prime, prime in hand, but I feel like it's just not going to resolve. My top card is a misty, so I decide to act like there are no lands on top (A little huff and puff, idk.) and then crop rotate to try and bait the counter. He counters it, I draw the misty then cast the SnT. He doesn't seem worried about this because of Containment Priest, but I put in Omni and cast all the primetimes. He just gets run over by them and the match is done.
After the match, he tells me that acting like I didn't have any lands on top was 'sleezy' but if he doesn't counter the crop rotation I have no way to win. I'm the kind of person who has a negative poker face and I constantly hemorrhage information. He knew this and acted on that info. I feel like it's within my rights to leak false info. Was that sleezy?
Round 5: R/W painter 3-1
We draw and I go get a burger. Ghost pepper chipotle sauce, pepperjack and chipotle bacon. Absolutely an all star burger.
Top 8: Bant good stuff: Semis
I'm totally in the zone for this and smile through the whole shuffling part. I've sat next to him and know he's got stifles and wastelands. I feel like I play super tight in this whole match.
Game 1:
He's the higher seed and starts us off with a little land go. I play cloudpost, then trop, then cloudpost and a top. He wastes the first cloudpost on his third turn and I protect it with a crop rotation. Then he wastes the trop and I couldn't care less. I play another trop. He still hasn't comitted anything to the board. I cast a Candle on my turn, then roll that right into casting Ulamog on 2/3 of his land. He tries to stifle it, and but I've got flusterstorm, so he floats a white and loses his lands. Swords my guy and I gain 10. He plays a True Name at some point, but I eventually find eye, then emrakul him.
Game 2:
He like, actually casts spells this game, with a library, deathrite and stoneforge among them. I play lands or whatever it is my deck does. I don't remember a lot of this game, but I know at one point I got omniscience into play but had nothing else until I could top the next turn and he was able to Council's Judgement it. He got to put True Name in off of my SnT, which gave him a pretty threatening clock. I ended up staring down lethal with almost no options. He had a trop up and I was positive that he had the stifle. But I was backed into a wall, so I cast Ugin, which resolved, and then -4 him. My opponent pauses, and then says 'ok' which shocks me. However, he takes no further action, so I just read Ugin's text outloud. He's like "oh dang, I thought it was one thing! I want to stifle it." I tell him he had said okay very clearly. The judge who was watching agrees and all his board presence is gone. Eventually I just bolt him to death (He stifles one of the bolts) as he had gotten quite low from the Library. I felt kinda bad after this, but it was very clear he had acknowledged the card's ability.
Quarters: R/W Painter
I know this guy is on painter, but I don't mulligan correctly and never cast a colored spell in either game. Across both of our games, he cast like, 7 blood moon effects and ReB'd all my attempts to beat them. Alas! I forgot the Cardinal rule of this matchup which is: Mulligan to a basic!
Ended up with a Force of Will for my troubles (*Throws it in pile of fourteen forces*)
Thanks for reading! <3
Thanks for the Report!Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko448
Many things i would like to comment, but i'll stick to a few thoughts about the build.
In general i feel that cavern of souls in mapless builds doesn't shine as it should - it's2random without maps. Most of the time you don't want to crop rotate 4 it against control? I'd rather have another basic 4 redundancy sake or tabernacle or maze in your case? In 4x crop + 4x SnT builds i feel that you need 1x ancient tombs. If nothing else you shore up your "fair" e.g. no counter match-ups by a large margin. The speed is sometimes just silly, especially if you run something like moxD. Currently i'm fooling around with omni in a casual build with impulse and ponder.
Ancient Tomb is just not good in my opinion. I've tried playing it for the sake of turning Crop Rotate into ramp, but there are just too many times where the damage it deals far outweighs the benefits. I would say my 'fair' matchups are absolutely my best, and I'm not going to make my worst matchups harder in order to shore up a matchup I was already winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
I was just messing around with the Maze in the sb, but I do want a second Island. Either in the sb or somewhere in the main.
Cavern of Souls is absolutely amazing. I cut the maps right before the event to try something else, and you're right, it doesn't shine as bright. Crop Rotating into it is still an option, but instead of cutting it, I'll probably run a second. When the card is helping you cast titan it's dumbfounding and game changing.
Ponder seems find in a Omni-oriented build, but Impulse isn't strong enough in my opinion.
Thanks for your opinions.
At first I was like how the heck did all this end up in a deck, then I realized its 62 cards maindeck. I proceeded to move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
About the sleazy..you're there to win. If people are being jerks, you have the right to reciprocate it back at them. You opponent has no room to talk, since he wastelanded you three times, without loams or graveyard recursion. This is like the time where someone cast cabal therapy against me and was like that "big green giant that will kill me." I just stared them back with a poker face and said, "and the card name is?" After a minute, I called a judge. He blanked, I seized the opportunity and won with it. In the same regard if I know someone is on miracles and they don't know I'm on 12post, I will turn 1 cloudpost them and dead-eye stare them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko448
Thanks for the vote of confidence! Sometimes I feel like I play too serious and don't want to be known as an 'angle shooter' but you're right, I wanted to win and I did what it took.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Haha, on the subject of playing against miracles, once I played a guy and he went tundra into top, so I followed with Island into Candle. He puts me on combo and forces it, so the next turn I play cloudpost map and he's like "uuuh." Poor miracles opponents :( I hope they never ban Terminus.
That would be me. I wrote a tournament report on page 289 (post # 5774). NorthWestDork has done well with the (virtually) same list it a couple times before me.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthWestDork
The list I used is not being reported correctly on that website. I can assure you that it does not have more than 60 cards in the maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
I've been experimenting a little bit with Tireless Tracker and Counterbalance in the sideboard.
Tireless Tracker: comes in against Blood Moon decks, combo (where he's a quicker clock than ramping up to Eldrazi), Eldrazi, and Delver. His increased value against combo is marginal in that he's still a 3 drop, but all of the other uses are totally legitimate. I like having a nice, proactive threat that can go wide against Blood Moon and land disruption. He's almost as good in this deck as he is in Lands.
Counterbalance: often dismissed because of mana issues, it's actually not that bad if the deck is tweaked slightly for a little more blue. Obviously intended for combo, but fine for Delver as well where it can prevent being burned out. Repeal gets better with this out as well.
I really wanted to run Chalice of the Void, but with so many 1 drops, I don't see it working. This is a one-sided Chalice... kind of. Put those 1 drops to work!
Anyone play test with Coercive Portal yet? Seems like great early game card advantage and constant pressure later on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lormador
Nice to see finally some more of you try out Tireless Tracker. I haven't played on xmage for a while, but i did systematically test a lot of different versions of my build against Tier 1-2 decks, going in a few different directions. One of those directions was the idea with Enlightened Tutor i wrote about a few pages back, but that didn't really work out the way i wanted to. In short: It's marginally stronger against some combo decks, Miracles and Delver, but against every non-blue midrange deck it fell completely apart (as in: turning 70% matchups into 30% matchups). It might still be an option at some point, but i really don't think the meta right now i ideal to try that. So no Enlightened Tutors any more in my current build, instead back to the Gwb version i had before, but with some changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Current list:
Lands:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
5 green fetchlands
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog
Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells:
3 Mox Diamond
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Grapple with the Past
1 Sylvan Library
2 Warping Wail
2 Toxic Deluge
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Lost Legacy
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Surgical Extraction
Going over all my changes:
1. Lands:
- I got rid of the Ghost Quarter (or Wasteland). I just didn't use it often enough, and it does nothing for the ramp plan. Sometimes i miss it against Infect or Lands, but otherwise this is completely fine.
- I got rid of the Tabernacle. Didn't really need it. It might hurt against Delver, but overall i think the Delver matchup is not worse than before, maybe even better, because of some other changes. And Tabernacle also doesn't help the ramp plan. Budget concerns had nothing to do with the cut, but cutting the cost almost in half is a nice side effect.
- I added Cavern of Souls. With 2 Titans it can do some work against Miracles on Giant, and against other decks i often put it on Humans, because most of my other creatures are actually Humans. I have been happy with it, even without Expedition Map and without 4 Titans it randomly wins a lot of games against blue decks and can be manafixing otherwise.
- Got the colored sources in order: 1 Savannah is enough, i only want it for the Knight or in sideboarded games when i bring in other white cards. But i only bring those in against decks that usually don't play Wasteland, so one source is enough. I need 2 Bayou, because black is more important in other matchups and against Wasteland decks. That leaves room for 2 basics, and that's fine.
2. Creatures:
- I added the 2nd Titan. Testing with more traditional builds has shown me the advantages of having access to a backup Titan if they get rid of the first one or if one is just not enough. However, i'm more than happy with just 2 - i tried playing 3 in one build, but overall that leads to more clunky hands.
- I readded the Titania, after i cut it for the Tutor build initially. Tried many builds without Titania, after cutting her for the 2nd Titan. Those did better than those with just one Titan, but those with Titania were even stronger. Especially against Liliana decks this is just very important to have.
- I settled on 3 Tireless Tracker. Whenever i went down to 1 or 2, the winrate dropped. Instead of a 4th one i like additional bullets instead.
- I went down to just 1 Knight. Knight needs to live to do something, and he doesn't, there is a good chance the 2nd won't either and i usually prefer other creatures in that case. So just one is enough.
- I added 1 Eternal Witness. With Grapple with the Past, you sometimes mill something you need later on, but either can't get with Grapple or don't want to get right now with Grapple. That's enough added utility to make Witness good enough, she isn't bad anyway.
- I added 1 Scavenging Ooze. That's still not settled, but i like the additional graveyard hate - Deathrite can deal with combo decks just fine, but against fair decks using the graveyard, Scooze is much stronger - it can actually keep Goyfs and Knights under control, and is still good against many combo decks.
3. Spells:
- I cut the Crucible of Worlds. That hurts a bit against Lands, but overall it was just often too slow and not impactful enough. I have enough recursion effects with Grapple, Witness and Titania, i don't think i really need infinite recursion.
- I settled on 3 Grapple with the Past. The lists with 3 instead of just 2 always performed better, especially after i made some changes to improve it. I really don't find the room for the full 4, and there is still the risk of running into RiP or Leyline of the Void, so 3 it is.
- I settled on 4 GSZ. The lists with just 3 were performing significantly worse, so no more cuts on that card.
- I settled on 3 Mox Diamond. Playing 4 didn't improve the deck, and after reading in the Reanimator thread about them playing exactly 3 Lotus Petals, i realized the same arguments are probably true for Mox Diamonds for me: I want exactly 1 in my opening hand, but i really don't want to see 2 or more.
- Toxic Deluge over Engineered Explosives. Explosives is more flexible, but Deluge is better at the main application - keeping the board clean. I wouldn't mind playing Explosives Main in addition, but Deluge is the more important card.
- 1 Sylvan Library over the 3rd Top. Both cards are similar, both cards are better in different situations. While i still think Top is more often the better card, there are a lot of situations where i like drawing extra cards with Library - basically against every deck that isn't very aggressive. Also, i'm not playing Ugin or All is Dust, so it's unlikely i kill my own Library as colateral damage.
4. Sideboard:
- I cut the additional Warping Wails and Crop Rotation. Both cards are fine maindeck choices, but there are better sideboard cards for the matchups where i would board them in (against combo mostly), and some combo decks where those 2 cards just don't do enough or even anything relevant (thinking about Aluren for example).
- I added Gaddock Teeg and 2 Ethersworn Canonist. I guess you have to see both sides of a match to really see the value of those creatures, at least for me that changed my rather negative opinion. Also, having 3 anti-combo creatures in the deck (even more if you count Scooze, Knight and Deathrite) makes Grapple with the Past actually a good card postboard against combo decks.
- I tried out 2 Lost Legacy, and i like them. Against almost every combo deck, there is something to name to cripple them, sometimes to win on the spot. The BB casting cost makes it sometimes hard to cast on curve, but in testing it was still better than Memoricide, in short because a 50% chance to cast it on turn 2 or 3 is just better than a 80% chance to cast it one turn later, if that's the turn you die.
I tested my builds against many different Tier 1-2 decks, and i also tested some other (more traditional?) builds against those decks, and this build (and similar builds that were just 2-3 cards off) outperformed everything else by far over a decent samplesize.
Went undefeated yesterday in weekly magic with a somewhat standard list:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [JGC] Show and Tell
2 [NPH] Dismember
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
I've been testing with a heavy trinket mage build and also with this build. i think they are both viable and are simply meta calls.
Matchups were: Eldrazi Aggro (2-1), Tezzerator (2-1), Cephalid Breakfast (2-1), ID. Weird matchups for sure, but the deck still got a good testrun.
Do you have a list for the Trinket Mage version?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Also, what role does Dismember serve in this deck?
Trinket mage Version is close to this:Quote:
Originally Posted by 203995014
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [JGC] Show and Tell
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
Dismember is pretty straightforward. Deals with problematic creatures. Nearly every deck has some that are annoying. DRS, pyromancer/mentor, metalworker, tks/reality smasher, delvers. Rather than clocking yourself, you just kill it. You can always gain life back later.
The Trinket mage version was originally focused on abusing Aetherflux Reservoir, but I kept trimming the AEtherflux Reservoirs until i was down to zero, but the Trinket Mages were still great. TM(Trinket mage) version is better versus a slow meta not filled with combo. The Trickbind/Repeal build is to combat random combo and is less meta-specific.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I guess no-one has posted yet about SCG Baltimore but there were two 12post decks that made day 2.
k_omega and into_play I believe on GW and UG respectively. Both k_omega & myself ultimated our opponents Liliana oTV over the course of day 1 and made our respective opponents choose the pile of nothing.
I, of course got soul crushed again in round 9, game 3 for a record of 5-4 on G/W post. :-(
Losses on the day:
- BUGw Aluren in Round 2
- This matchup seems unwinnable. I got a sphere of resistance to stick and I ended up getting slow-rolled with the combo. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to Krip Aluren or Parastic Strix. I've faced this matchup online a bunch and it feels like everything I try doesn't work.
- Grixis Delver in Round 3
- Jammed a Primetime into a Daze in game 3. I was on the play and he left all 4 in, his reseasoning was he didn't have anything better in SB?
- I wanted to hedge against eldrazi so I ran 1 blessed alliance over a 3rd STP. It was awesome when it killed a flipped delver and I gained 4 life to boot!
- Grixis Delver in Round 5
- Game 3 on the draw I faced a turn 1 delver, blind flip on turn 2. Turn 2 delver, blind flip FoW on turn 3. Sometimes you just don't get to play magic I guess?
- Shardless BUG in Round 9
- Game 3 with day 2 on the wire, my opponent over the course of the game goes Pithing needle #1: SDT, Pithing needle #2: Eye of Ugin, Null Rod.
- We hit the point where we both had 0 cards in hand, he had a liliana and a tarmogoyf, while I had Maze of Ith was holding of the goyf while we were both drawing cards. I drew multiple primetimes and bogs & padded my life total. If I would have been playing a kalini heart garden or dryad arbor, primetime would have lived and I would have won the match.
- It was a topdeck war basically. He hit thoughtsieze, land, goyf into goyf; while I drew useless cards: land, Top, Candelabra (I left one in), land into land. I haven't calculated the odds, but I had plenty of live draws: Ugin (x2), Rec Sage/GSZ (x4), Eldrazi Titans (x3).
Another large event, another failure at the end. The story of my life with this deck. :-P
I haven't played much against Aluren, but on xmage i was 3-0 against it and testing against myself the winrate is also positive. I think this matchup isn't that bad, probably 50/50 for me, but not much worse for other builds either.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Their combo is basically a 2-card combo. They need Aluren and they need Recruiter (or Cavern Harpy and Parasitic Strix, but those are 1-ofs usually). If they have that, i think your only chance is Grip on Aluren. They have Eternal Witness, so this will only buy you 1-2 turns, but it's something. If you Grip the Strix, they just get Witness and you don't even get another Turn.
With my current build, i don't even have that much interaction against them:
1. Discard. 2-3 Thoughtseize in the board to take whatever combo piece they already have. I'm thinking about playing some copies maindeck even, it's good against combo and useful enough otherwise. (You have TKS i think. I don't like it, because it's too slow against other combo decks, but it should often be fast enough against Aluren.)
2. Ethersworn Canonist (and maybe Trinisphere). They have to get rid of it to combo, either with Abrupt Decay or with a RecSage to tutor up (so it doesn't stop the combo, but slows it down).
3. Gaddock Teeg. They have to get rid of it to play Aluren, and the usually only have Abrupt Decay for that job.
4. Lost Legacy, usually naming Aluren.
(Not a good option: Leyline. They should have RecSage in their deck, and no problem to search it up during the combo to blow it up.)
But i often win without using any of the combo hate, because they are not that consistant at assembling the combo: They don't have any way to search for the combo pieces, and far less cantrips than other combo decks. They usually survive long enough with creatures like Baleful Strix to make attacking really unprofitable, but if we play a fast Titan, we should be able to have Emrakul in play fast enough to beat them if they stumble a little bit.
If they have the combo on Turn 3 or 4, we will usually just lose, but from my experience, that doesn't happen that often, and i think we should win most of the time if they don't.
I thought I saw into_play but wasn't sure enough to introduce myself, having only seen him while studying his feature matches. Anyway, I do have my report in all its lengthy glory.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
I made top 64 (going 10-5) at SCG Baltimore with the following GW list, modified from maCHOOga's and lovingly dubbed "G/W Eldrazi Post" by SCG (why they can't just use what I put on the decklist form is beyond me):
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Forest
3 Green fetches
2 Vesuva, Savannah, Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas, Thespian's Stage, Khalni Garden, Eye of Ugin, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle
4 Primeval Titan
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Veteran Explorer, Reclamation Sage, Oracle
1 Old Emrakul, New Emrakul, New Ulamog
2 Ugin
4 Top, Crop Rotation
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Expedition Map, Swords to Plowshares, Warping Wail
Sideboard:
3 Leyline of Sanctity, Trinisphere
2 Krosan Grip, Ghostly Prison, Rest in Peace
1 Dawnstrider, Elderscale Wurm, Gaddock Teeg
Comments on card choices
I deliberately veered from my Ancient Stirrings builds in favor of a GSZ one. I didn't like and don't own Ancient Tombs, so I replaced them with the ever-powerful Khalni Garden and Bojuka Bog. In lieu of Tireless Tracker I used Rec Sage to have a game-one answer to Chalices and hateful enchantments. I took the fearless plunge into playing zero Pithing Needles, and my skepticism on that point has been largely dispelled.
The weird green creatures are in the sideboard to get maximum value out of GSZ, since some decks just can't beat an Elderscale Wurm or a Dawnstrider. These slots used to be CoP: Red but I found that the decks against which Circles were good tended to be too fast to reliably find one of the two copies, and could pressure me into tapping low or holding up mana for too many turns. Circles also don't stop Delvers. So I decided to eschew Circles in favor of searchable bullets for troublesome matchups. This turned out to be a poor decision in view of the matchups I faced.
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Shardless BUG (Matt Quinn)
Game 1: I swords some Tarmogoyfs which buys some time, but I spin my wheels and my Top for too long and he gets Liliana up to 6. I draw Vesuva while hellbent and hold it, enticing him to plus Lili instead of ultimating her. In the most absurd topdeck I've ever experienced, I draw new Emrakul and mindslaver him into sacrificing his whole board.
SB: +2 RiP, -1 Map, -1 Tabernacle
Game 2: I get put on the back foot by a curve of creatures, but he has no FoW for my Ugin which buys time for Top to find posts + new Emrakul.
Round 2: 2-1 vs. D&T (Chris Andersen)
Game 1: I expected him to be playing Lands and kept 7 on the strength of Bojuka Bog and Crop Rotation. I get punished for this error by new Thalia and company, and cast Ugin at 3 life. I wipe the board but he vials in 3 points of power.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Map, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 Bojuka Bog
Game 2: I mulligan to Oracle, Top, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva. He has no land disruption, top finds green mana, and a parade of Cloudposts enables old Emrakul to take the game.
Game 3: Much the same, without Oracle. I got to see a few grains of my opponent's legendary salt.
Round 3: 2-0 vs. D&T (Nicholas Gekoskie)
Game 1: He vials out three creatures with two lands, so I map for Tabernacle and use it to keep his board under control while I build up posts. Eventually I get Eye->New Emrakul to make him kill all his creatures with Jitte. He bounces it with Karakas, but realizes that Tabernacle + Emrakul makes for recurring Plague Wind and scoops.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Map, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 Bojuka Bog
Game 2: I sense that my opponent is inexperienced in the matchup so I bait him into wastelanding a Glimmerpost, which gets rotated into a Cloudpost. From there I build up while Tabernacle slows him down. Ulamog exiles his threats and his hopes.
Round 4: 2-1 vs. U/R Delver (Stuart Brooks)
Game 1: I take a lot of damage, but can cast Primeval Titan through Cavern to stabilize if he doesn't have the lethal Price of Progress. Naturally, he does.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +3 Trinisphere, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Bog, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 TKS, -1 New Emrakul, -2 Warping Wail
Game 2: He cantrips for 4 turns without finding a creature. I stabilize behind Chasm, gain tons of life, and establish Karakas + Ulamog to deprive him of lands for the burn spells.
-1 Trinisphere, +1 Warping Wail
Game 3: I trade off removal with his threats, and a TKS prompts a large but not lethal Price of Progress. I take a second Price and he has no other burn. Tabernacle + Prison + TKS slows down his offense apart from one Stormchaser Mage. He lands Blood Moon, and I take the opportunity to Titan a Chasm into play without losing a land, having a GSZ in hand to go get Reclamation Sage. I leave the Moon in play to lull my opponent, fetching Cloudposts off of Titan attacks while taking chunks out of his life total. I blow up the Moon, Eye for Ulamog to take out a Delver and Stormchaser, and he scoops after trying to Bolt me with the now-active Chasm in play. A very close game.
Round 5: 2-0 vs. Nic Fit (David Malafarina)
Game 1: He has double Explorer + double Therapy which severely hampers my early development. Consequently, I almost lose to Nissa, Vital Force but topdeck Crop Rotation -> Eye -> Old Emrakul + Karakas on the last possible turn.
SB: -1 Explorer, -1 Tabernacle, +2 Rest in Peace
Game 2: I keep a hand with Top and a bunch of lands, which neuters his Therapies while he ramps me with his Explorers. A standard game of Cloudposts -> Emrakul.
Round 6: 2-1 vs. Lands (Kyle Kurz)
Game 1: Maindeck Bojuka Bog pulls its weight, and Titan seals the game.
SB: +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Grip, +1 Elderscale Wurm, -1 Tabernacle, -2 TKS, -1 New Emrakul
Game 2: I mulligan to 4 and get Loam+Wastelanded out of the game.
Game 3: I Bog + RiP him into topdeck mode while my Top finds me the lands to cast Primeval Titan. Enough said.
Round 7: 1-2 vs. U/R Delver (Jacob Saracino)
Game 1: This player has Wastelands and Bomat Couriers, one of which I blow up with Rec Sage. I stabilize behind Chasm with enormous quantities of mana but no Eldrazi, and my Top shows three lands. For reasons I don't understand, my opponent just scoops anyway.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +2 Trinisphere, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Bog, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 TKS, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Warping Wail
Game 2: I land a Ghostly Prison, but it isn't enough to stop large Stormchasers from flying over.
Game 3: I get stuck on lands and don't resolve anything relevant.
Round 8: 0-2 vs. U/R Delver (Lyle Rolfes)
Game 1: I stabilize behind Chasm but let it go at 1 life. I fade his first draw step, but the second one is the ever-present Price of Progress just before I would have taken over the game.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +2 Trinisphere, +1 Krosan Grip, -1 Bog, -1 Veteran Explorer, -1 TKS, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Warping Wail
Game 2: True-Name Nemesis slips past my Thought-Knots and Price finishes the job.
Round 9: 1-2 vs. 4c Delver (Jadine Klomparens)
Game 1: She never finds a Wasteland, but Oracle finds me Cloudposts. Both Warping Wails showed up in the early turns to defuse a triple-Delver draw.
SB: +2 RiP, +2 Ghostly Prison, -1 Bog, -1 TKS, -1 Map, -1 Crop Rotation? (don't quite remember)
Game 2: I durdle around with Tops for a few turns. She has double Wasteland for my Cloudpost+Stage, followed by Surgical Extraction on Cloudpost. I resolve a TKS for information and die to True-Name.
Game 3: I cast turn 2 RiP which shuts off her T1 Deathrite and the Gurmag Angler in hand, and later blanked another Surgical. I resolve TKS and take FoW from among FoW+Angler+Bolt. I should have taken the bolt, as that would have allowed TKS to kill the Deathrite and survive to race the True-Name that followed. She plays a Wasteland which I could not bait her into using on a non-Cloudpost land so that I could respond with the Crop Rotation in hand. I never find a Cloudpost for bait and True-Name kills me again. To its credit, Ghostly Prison exacted its toll each combat though it did not affect the outcome of the game. In this match I would have liked a Pithing Needle, as it seems hard to get out from underneath an active Wasteland from a cunning opponent.
Round 10: 2-0 vs. Miracles (Daniel Miller)
Game 1: My hand has a T4 Ulamog with Zenith as backup, so I lead on Cloudpost following my opponent's play of Island-and-pass. Ulamog eats Jace + Counterbalance + Swords, but Zenith->Titan->Eye->Emrakul wins.
SB: +2 Grip, +1 Ghostly Prison, -1 Bog, -2 Crop Rotation
Game 2: I keep a slower hand and get some value from Oracle, while he digs hard for Clique + Karakas. After a few repetitions of draw-Clique, I screw up my Top ordering and end up drawing old Emrakul off of a Clique draw. I decide to play some mind games and slyly spin the Top on his end step. He tanks in my draw step, decides not to Clique me on the key turn, and loses as a result. Many laughs were had.
Round 11: 2-0 vs. Lands (Travis Downes)
Game 1: Maindeck Bog takes the game again. My opponent has clearly not seen my kind of deck before and doesn't realize what lines he should be taking.
SB: +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Grip, +1 Elderscale Wurm, -1 Tabernacle, -2 TKS, -1 New Emrakul
Game 2: I deploy a Cloudpost to entice Wasteland so I can Rotate->Bog to snag both a Loam and a Wasteland. He kindly obliges but puts a Loam for nothing in the graveyard. I spin into a Vesuva to snag the second Loam which reduces him to topdecking while I have Oracle + Top. My top cards have almost no lands though, so he gets enough time to Gamble for Depths and threaten Marit Lage. I Zenith for 0 to shuffle, find Thespian's Stage, and play it with mana to copy. After the staring contest continues for a couple turns I turn my Stage into a Cloudpost to enable Ulamog, and my opponent seizes the opportunity/takes the bait to produce the 20/20. I Ulamog it and his Exploration and win from there.
Round 12: 1-2 vs. eldrazi (Matthew Long)
Game 1: I Swords his T1 Matter Reshaper, Zenith for and block with Explorer, and get to Titan for Glimmerposts to enable Ulamog. A satisfying win, as I chose this build to better fight this menace.
SB: +2 Ghostly Prison, +2 Grip, +1 Dawnstrider, +1 Elderscale Wurm, -2 Ugin, -2 Warping Wail, -1 Bog, -1 TKS
Game 2: I get run over by Mimic into double TKS, with a Wasteland that negated my potential topdecks.
Game 3: I chump some early attacks and deploy Chasm at 17 life. I copy a Glimmerpost and immediately kick myself for not Vesuva-ing his Ancient Tomb which would have allowed me to cast Titan a turn before I actually did, while having the damage prevented by Chasm. I also let go of the Chasm after two turns which proves to be bad as he has Dismember + Jitte counters for the Titan. I fumble around with Top but find nothing, though I did have the mana for Zenith->Elderscale Wurm which would have won the game.
Round 13: 0-2 vs. B/R Reanimator (Todd Anderson)
Game 1: Having seen some of the coverage the previous evening, I know what he is playing and am not pleased. I mulligan to Crop Rotation and get to Bog his graveyard after he reanimates Griselbrand and discards 11 cards. I don't find a Karakas or Swords though, and effectively lose when he reanimates Tidespout Tyrant. Mental invective is spouted.
SB: +3 Leyline, +2 RiP
Game 2: I mulligan to a 4 with Leyline, Top, and a land and hope to find Rest in Peace. I don't, and he has T2 Animate Dead on Tidespout with double Lotus Petal to bounce my lands. I still don't find a Swords for the Tidespout.
Round 14: 2-1 vs. Merfolk (Cassidy Delcourt)
Game 1: I play some lands, resolve Crop Rotation for Cavern, and proceed to drop 2 Primeval Titans over the next two turns with a third in hand. Ulamog gets Forced, but Emrakul tears the aeons and her board.
SB: +2 Grip, +2 Ghostly Prison, -2 Warping Wail, -1 Bog, -1 Crop Rotation
Game 2: I keep a slow hand that I really should have mulliganed. She plays Back to Basics and I opt not to cast anything so that I can topdeck Grip, Rec Sage, or Zenith. I don't and get run over by merfolk.
Game 3: Basically the same as Game 1. Steamrolling opponents is fun.
Round 15: 2-1 vs. Miracles (Matthew Tickal)
Technically this was an ID into top 64, but we played for fun and I saw a Miracles build that I hadn't seen before so I'm including it here.
Game 1: I lead with a Forest, expecting to Crop Rotate it. He plays an Island and passes, from which I decided he is playing Miracles. This conclusion was confirmed by the groan upon seeing the Forest become a Cloudpost. This Miracles player, however, plays Wastelands which buys him some time. Emrakul eventually cleans up anyway.
SB: +2 Grip, +1 Ghostly Prison, -1 Bog, -2 Crop Rotation
Game 2: I expected him to play Mentors, which he did not, but did not expect Wasteland + Crucible, which he did. He Forces my GSZ for Rec Sage and I don't topdeck a Grip for the Crucible before I have too few lands to cast it.
-1 Prison, -1 TKS, -1 Map, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Bog
Game 3: He never finds a Wasteland, and although Clique + Karakas slows me down I eventually get Titans through Caverns for the win. It turns out that Eye + TKS is very good against Terminus.
Observations
1) Ghostly Prison leaves much to be desired. While it severely hampered my first U/R Delver opponent, I never managed to both resolve it and have it be more than a mere nuisance in any subsequent match. My eldrazi opponent did TKS it away, which I suppose indicates that it has some utility in that matchup. I think I would prefer actual removal (Blessed Alliance, more StP, maybe even Clip Wings) in its place but I'll test it some more.
2) Neither Dawnstrider nor Elderscale Wurm made an appearance, so no experimental results for those.
3) Naturally, the first tournament in which I play Rest in Peace over Surgical Extraction is the tournament in which I play against B/R Reanimator. So I continue to waffle on the choice between the two. I'm not sure how necessary RiP is against Lands: I've reached the conclusion that I can beat all but the best Lands players by being smart with Bog and Karakas, but my local meta has multiple strong Lands players. RiP played no role in my win over Shardless, which is the other matchup in which I'd want it, but did stop Surgicals from my 4c Delver opponent. Perhaps a coin flip is in order.
4) I return to my prior opinion that 3 TKS is too many. It isn't particularly good on defense as any attacker + Bolt kills it, and isn't particularly necessary in any given matchup other than perhaps Omnitell. I do like having at least 2 in order to tutor them up with Eye and snag Prices while allowing for one to get countered.
5) Contrary to previous experience, Candelabra was not necessary to fight new Thalia from D&T. Granted, in the times when she appeared I was firing on all cylinders anyway.
6) StP was amazing, and I'd like to play a 3rd copy. Having more answers (and nonland answers) to Marit Lage makes the Lands matchup feel like a breeze despite the absence of Pithing Needle.
7) 4 Forests seems like the right number to get maximum value out of Veteran Explorer even after drawing or being forced to fetch basics. Only once (against Nic Fit after he had already sacked an Explorer) did I get fewer than 2 basics from my Explorer.
8) Explorer was excellent against slow decks and eldrazi. I took it out against U/R Delver but it might be correct to keep it in since one needs to ramp quickly in that matchup.
9) Maindeck Reclamation Sage was OK but not great, and its best moments were in sideboarded games. I didn't face many Chalice decks though and I think having the extra sideboard slot helps.
10) The Delver matchup needs work. My plan was to tax their mana with Tabernacle + Prison + Trinisphere but after the first match decided that Trinisphere was not that good, and the full taxing plan only worked against one of my Delver opponents because it takes three turns to set up.
11) Khalni Garden > Dryad Arbor still, though on a couple of occasions it would have been nice to be able to Zenith for 0 meaningfully.
Thanks for reading, and I welcome any thoughts or questions you have.
Congrats on the top 64. Did you get a feature match at all?
1.) I ended up cutting ghostly prison after EE5 and playing online when I realized it's better to remove creatures than tax them. Likewise, ensnaring bridge is in the same camp; except we usually can't empty our hands fast enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
3.) I've been demolished by the BR deck online, so I opted for 2 surgicals and 0 RIPs. Ironically, tarmogoyfs did me in at the end. Going forward it may be a 1/2 split depending on the metagame? I of course didn't see any BR reanimator.
4.) I'm in the same boat. I think it has a place in the deck, its just a matter of the quanitity. I'm just looking for a hard to bolt idiot that provides inference/time.
6.) I audibled to 2 STPs, 1 blessed alliance main. I think it should be 3 STPs main, with alliances SB. Alliance was great for me until I needed to kill a young pyromancer and not a stupid token. It also has the ability to kill TNNs (if swinging alone.)
My own testing with Ghostly Prison had similar results - it can be great if you get the right combination of cards out (with Tabernacle and/or Choke for example), but that just doesn't happen often enough. It's one reason why i gave up on my Enlightened Tutor build (i tried Moat, but it's slower, harder to cast, and still doesn't stop Delver). Black with Toxic Deluge is a huge improvement over that.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Ensnaring Bridge on the other hand has a different purpose for me: It's very strong against Sneak&Show, Omnitell and Mono-Red SneakAttack (they have to answer it and very few answers), against Eldrazi (even less answers, just sometimes not getting your hand empty fast enough can be an issue), it's good against Reanimator (mostly Tidespout is the only answer, maybe some Abrupt Decays), Lands (just Krosan Grip as answer, and they might have boarded out some of their alternative winconditions) and Turbo-Depths (only answer is Abrupt Decay, and they can't win with it on board). Against other fair decks it's just medium - i bring it in against most Delver decks (not UR), but don't bring it in against other fair decks most of the time, because they have too many answers and i'd rather advance my own gameplan in those matchups. Still, cutting it from the board makes the matchups where it's good considerably worse, while any replacement i tried imo doesn't do that much more against the other fair decks.
If I wanted to proxy up a GU Titan Post list with no budgetary restrictions, would this be what you'd go for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
It's a great start. Covers most of the G/U concept well. You can tweak this version around slightly with cheap cards to fit your META.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/506645#online
Look at this bonkers deck. I think I'm going to have to bring this to my weekly...
I've seen this person's decks get posted here in the past. He has a Green Black version i've wanted to try. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/427019#paperQuote:
Originally Posted by Neko448
I was the backup camera match in round 9 but didn't actually get shown, and had an off-camera feature match in round 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
I kept Ghostly Prison in my sideboard for FNM today hoping to test against Delver, and I was "pleasantly" surprised to play against Delvers 3 rounds in a row. Ghostly Prison is terrible and I have officially moved it from the sideboard to the trade binder. I think Explore might be a reasonable replacement, as it can be a Time Walk fairly easily and helps get out in front of the soft permission. It is also cheaper and does not require white mana.
I also played 1 Tireless Tracker in place of 1 TKS but boarded it out every round because my opponents all played 4x Bolts. The Promised End, however, continues to impress: bolt yourself, snap-bolt yourself, Thoughtseize yourself, suicide your Delver, Abrupt Decay your TNN...
Ghostly Prison has an interesting interaction with Deathrite Shaman that I didn't know about but that I'm mentioning so that we'll all know it if the world turns upside down and the card becomes good. Because DRS isn't a mana ability, it can't be used to pay the tax since it is paid "as attackers are declared" and does not use the stack. Then because the mana pool empties just before the declare attackers step they can't float the mana in advance. So DRS effectively doesn't count for Ghostly Prison mana.
List seems interesting, maybe I'll give it a try (right now I'm on BUG version, with Abrupt Decay and Toxic Deluge). But 1 big question: what about Chalice of the Void @1, especially turn 1? Facing this opener really often in the last weeks, and that's the main reason for black and Decay, to be honest...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Gesendet von meinem ONEPLUS A3003 mit Tapatalk
Could I put a small request in at this moment to help with match reports or when topics are on specific builds? A link or list some place in the comment so it makes it easier to see what you are talking about.
I keep up with the forum but I tend to have to scroll back quite a few pages to see what decklist someone is referring to. A simple link to the page would suffice, just something to make the conversation more efficient as well as help people who don't read through this massive subthread.
Nice idea. But you won't find my current build, because it's still like a beta - version and therefore I didn't publish it. I asked about Rock Lee's list, and this is has been quoted in the post :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriger
I've been trying to put together a FoW list for a long time. I'm currently testing this very rough draft (no land tutors) and i'm having a blast :laugh: i'd really like to include trickbind but i can't find the space...
Any suggestions? is anyone trying to build with FoW nowadays?
Land (24)
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
4x Glimmerpost
3x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva
Instant (14)
4x Brainstorm
3x Condescend
4x Force of Will
3x Repeal
Creature (6)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Planeswalker (3)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifact (4)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Sorcery (7)
3x Ponder
4x Show and Tell
Enchantment (2)
2x Omniscience
Sideboard (15)
2x Dismember
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Moment's Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
Seems like a ton of cantrips for a deck like this. Repeal feels out of place in a build like this. Perhaps replace with Trickbind if you really want to use it. Also personally feel that Ponder doesn't fit the build either. I see you are trying to keep your blue card count up for FoW alt cost, perhaps run Intuition instead of Ponder? If you are liking Omniscience, something like Intuition really would help with that process. This is essentially a mono blue splashing green for Prime Time. You could go more high tide with it and run candles and high tide.
What is the real intent of this build that you are going for? Just for the use of Force of Will?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
It's basically just an experiment to see if the deck can run without land tutors. Sacrificing the land utility package for permission. I tried different version and had limited success.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriger
i soon started to miss crop rotation too much and decided to go back to a classical OmniPost build. I'm not entirely certain about running Kozilek (though it works wonders with omni sometimes - i was very disappointed about the interaction between the new kozilek and omni - new kozi would be a great inclusion :cry:). And frankly the one of candle (i own only 1) seems a bit off in this configuration? I feel that force is adequately supported since the omnis add the critical blue count needed. With this config i have been able to consistently use force without any issues, i'm still not sure if i like a full set or just 3. I feel that force is required in an omnipost build. You often don't win on the spot when resolving omni and you need a way to protect yourself. And besides, we have many plays we want to protect crop, SnT, Titan or Ugin. Another bonus is that i feel i don't need cavern of souls... I'm still undecided about ancient tombs. It opens up even more broken plays and with force you can expect to protect your t2 crop - tomb - SnT play in g1. i'm currently testing without it. I've also considered nephalia academy, since this type of build is more vulnerable to discard. I would definitely like to run EE as well. With all the chalices out there it's almost mandatory these days, but i can't find the space with all the blue cards required for force...
Any thoughts?
Land (25)
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
2x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva
Instant (15)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation
3x Force of Will
4x Repeal
Creature (7)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sorcery (4)
4x Show and Tell
Planeswalker (2)
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifact (5)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantment (2)
2x Omniscience
Sideboard (15)
3x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Moment's Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Swan Song
2x Trickbind
I'm curious what exactly you mean by this. The new Kozilek seems awesome with an omniscience~Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
One still needs CC to cast it... This is the main reason why i run the old one. Though the old Kozi with karakas and omni is better (or it would be if the old was playable). With a candle and repeal you can practically mill yourself - fun timesQuote:
Originally Posted by Neko448
EDIT: friendly reminder for post pilots playing repeal. Don't forget to look-draw-repeal. I feel that this play is one of the best and most consistent plays a repeal deck can offer. So many times i find everything i need. Lately i tend to avoid repealing mediocre threats and just dig...
I'm solidly under the impression that omniscience completely forgoes the mana cost in it's entirety. Do you have a source that supports what you believe? I wasn't able to find anything myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
Well i'm no expert but it says here that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko448
7/1/2012 If you cast a card “without paying its mana cost,” you can’t pay any alternative costs. You can pay additional costs such as kicker costs. If the card has mandatory additional costs, you must pay those.
i guess CC is mandatory?
With your reasoning, you would also need to pay double Green to cast Primeval Titan via Omniscience... which doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
CC is not an alternative cost, just a color requirement for hard casting Kozilek.
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It's just the casting cost, much like Saab's example. Did someone tell you that you couldn't cast Kozi during an event or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical