Maybe you should exercise your right to bear arms.
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Maybe you should exercise your right to bear arms.
Honestly I'm not saying Werebear is equal to Tarmogoyf, but I definitely think he's good enough at being a big body. Tarmogoyf has generally been a 3/4 to a 4/5 for me. So werebear's thresh 4/4 is pretty good, but you still have to go in with thought scour. Yes I know thought scour can turbo Geese and is removal with submerge, I still don't like it and would only play it if on the 8 thresh creatures plan. I played 2 clique at SCG seattle and they played very well as I don't like to tap out and pass the turn depending on the match. I had them win me one match and lose me a match (karakas). It was a close call on the loss but he kept me off the last 3 damage I needed and couldn't find a stifle or wasteland.. or BOLT with all my filtering and free filtering! The thing about Tarmogoyf is the fact that he deploys t2 for profit.
I wouldn't want to rely on a 3 costing creature in a deck with 15 lands. Here's some ideas in addition to the already mentioned Werebear:
Kird Ape
Goblin Guide
Skinshifter
Quirion Dryad
Skyshroud Elite
Scythe Tiger
Grim Lavamancer
I don't know if any of those will work, but at least I can imagine a situation where the card would shine for each of them.
Also, Tempo Thresh has been successful before with only Goyf and Goose, so having only Goose and Delver for the creature package wouldn't necessarily be completely out of question either.
Well, firearms are forbidden in my country. I will have to use fairies instead. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Now we're talking!Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaclus
I'm not sure you know what I was referring to :wink: .Quote:
Originally Posted by wbw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaclus
Running out a clique wasn't really an issue. I play stifles in my list and between that and cantrips it was actually quite good. I wanted to address a couple of the other creatures though. Goblin guide is pretty terrible when you are trying to keep people off lands and not playing price of progress. I've been testing Grim Lavamancer since the spoiling of Master of the Pearl trident. Obviously you don't run them and Geese in the same list but if you run them in Geese slot you definitely need 4 Tarmogoyf more then ever. I've been having issues to run them main or as a 3 of in the board. Sometimes Geese are the answer. The clock is way better, but Grim lavamancer is a blow out to fish and Maverick when coupled with the already present spot removal and counters. I play kird ape in the modern version of the deck. It's alright, I'm not trying to live through Volcanic Fallouts in legacy though.
@ WBW Update us with your Tourney results with the Fae Beats as your beefy creatures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaclus
Previous Level Thresh aka Gro!Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Just happened today :pirate:Quote:
Originally Posted by menace13
Succesful yes, but all in all less consistant. I wouldn't play less than 11 creatures. Don't forget, without a clock all this deck does is trying to win the worst control deck ever award.Quote:
Also, Tempo Thresh has been successful before with only Goyf and Goose, so having only Goose and Delver for the creature package wouldn't necessarily be completely out of question either.
Does this deck even have a bad matchup? lol, everything I test against it, best case scenario the games are 50/50.
I've got a pretty rough time vs stuff like Nic Fit, Maverick or Dredge.
And if we're talking old and smaller archetypes (that still sees play around here -_-), anything with Loam in it, Aggro Loam and Lands in particular, is an awful matchup. I rolled 2 Price of Progress in my sideboard for a while.
Maverick is pretty rough, even with Submerge and Sulfur Elemental. I had been running a Stifleless version though, maybe Stifle RUG has better game against Maverick? A Thalia plus a Wasteland within the first few turns is usually game over and lategame they have the ability to stabilize at low life with KotR or Jitte.
Maverick (well... KotR.) made me swap my deck. Really.
I had played against maverick in all champ who I played. Like 7 or 8 times in 4 or 5 championships. So today I play tempo version of team america, with some gtft and Pernicious deed.
I'll back soon again with like 4 submerge and 3 mind harness in next championship, probably. And im thinking about vapor snag.
Well... it was bad. I did 2-5. It was mostly because I was a bit nervous and didn't play very well. The deck was good, but it punishes you if you don't play it tightly (not exactly news :rolleyes:).Quote:
Originally Posted by Woe
About the Vendilion Cliques, I still feel they are a mixed bag. Most games it would be irrelevant if I had goyf in its place. But in some, I could'd lost (flash and flying are awesome) and in others I could'd won (I really needed a big body or a 2cc threat).
To be honest, I still don't think goyf is the other creature this deck needs, however there is nothing better so far. I would rather have 3-4 more nimble mongoose :laugh:.
Just for reference, I played:
(19 lands)
4 strand, 4 delta, 4 tropical, 3 volcanic, 4 wasteland
(11 threats)
4 delvers, 4 mongoose, 3 vendilion clique
(7 removals)
1 dismember, 2 forked bolt, 4 lightning bolt
(8 cantrips)
4 brainstorm, 4 ponder
(16 permissions)
4 fow, 3 daze, 4 stifle, 4 spell pierce
(SB)
1 Phyrexian Metamorph, 1 Krosan Grip, 1 Ancient Grudge, 1 Sulfuric Vortex, 1 Sulfur Elemental, 2 REB, 2 Rough//Tumble, 3 Submerge, 3 Tormod's Crypt
There were 65 players in the tourney and lots of variety (I spotted at least 20 archetypes). Anyway, the matches I faced were:
Aggro Loam (0x2)
Burn (1x2)
Tezzeret Prison (2x0)
Goblins (0x2)
Burn (1x2)
Slivers (2x1)
Merfolks (1x2)
Short version of what happened:
(about matches)
- Aggro Loam is a bad match up;
- I hate Chalice of the Void;
- Burn is a very, very close match;
- Cavern of Souls makes fighting tribal decks way harder;
- I screwed up hard vs Goblins (also, I didn't know Goblins had CotV in the SB);
- I misplayed lots of time (always realizing a split second to late), which costed me quite a few games.
- And I really hate Chalice of the Void;
(about the deck/cards)
- Nimble Mongoose was MVP;
- FoWs were awesome too, I will still play the full set;
- Rough//Tumble was great, I should'd played 3 in the board;
- Dismember was very good and will stay as a singleton;
- Stifles never shined, but helped enough to justify their usage;
- I didn't miss Spell Snares, even though in some specific situations, they could had been useful;
- Forked Bolt was bad, I wished it was Chain Lightning;
- The Metamorph is so-so, but it is a very catch-all option. I would play it again in a blind meta;
- Some cards of the SB never showed or weren't required, so I can't comment about them.
I don't think a long report is due in this thread, but if someone gets curious about details on the matches, just ask and I will post about it.
After GP Atlanta, I was wondering how a list with 18 lands and exactly 0 Stifle did so well. Even more surprising, how a list with 4 Stifle was in a need of 19 lands.
Here are some numbers:
Number of lands in start hands:
0 Land(s): 3937 times (3,94%)
1 Land(s): 18467 times (18,47%)
2 Land(s): 32513 times (32,51%)
3 Land(s): 28192 times (28,19%)
4 Land(s): 12975 times (12,98%)
5 Land(s): 3332 times (3,33%)
6 Land(s): 541 times (0,54%)
7 Land(s): 43 times (0,04%)
Those propabilities evolved from a calculation with a whooping 100.000 starting hands (which should be a large enough sample size to be somewhat accurate).
Conclude whatever you feel like.
Edit: This calculation is for 18 lands, including Wasteland.
Statistics are cool but you have to use them properly. Your calculations don't take into account the times your only land(s) is/are wasteland(s). You should redo it with colored lands.
Number of lands in start hands:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
0 Land(s): 10253 times (10,25%)
1 Land(s): 28992 times (28,99%)
2 Land(s): 33441 times (33,44%)
3 Land(s): 19747 times (19,75%)
4 Land(s): 6329 times (6,33%)
5 Land(s): 1111 times (1,11%)
6 Land(s): 121 times (0,12%)
7 Land(s): 6 times (0,01%)
Edit: This calculation is for 14 coloured sources and does not include Wasteland.
Moar Grim Lavamancer and Kird Ape :cry:
Hello,
Could some of you please share your thoughts about this list:
Maindeck:
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tarmogoyf
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Delver of Secrets
--
12
4x Force of will
4x Daze
4x Spell Pierce
3x Thought Scour
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Fire//Ice
--
29
4x Wasteland
3x Tropical Island
3x Volcanic Island
1x Taiga
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
--
19
Sideboard:
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Gilded Drake
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Surgical extraction
3x Submerge
2x Pyroblast
2x Rough//Tumble
--
15
Some explanations:
0 Stifle: I hate to topdeck this card and I prefer to play Spell Pierce, although most people play that card instead of the Spell Snares nowadays. I never thought that RUG would ever cut Stifle, but it worked out pretty good so far.
0 Spell Snare: I'm not the only one cutting this card. First I went down to 2, but when I wanted some room for Thought Scour I removed both of them + the single Dismember I used to play.
3 Thought Scour: 1 is often enough to transform your pathetic Nimble Mongooses into a real threat! It also works great in combination with Submerge, which is awesome and often makes me laugh :tongue:
1 Taiga: I played 2 mirrors that went like this after a 1-1 score and game 3 on the play:
Me: Tropical --> Delver
He: Wasteland on Tropical --> Surgical Extraction on Trop..
In the mirror I'm on the same plan (while both players often side out their FoW´s), but if my opponent starts of like this first I can at least come back in the game with a surgical on his Wasteland and fetching a Taiga..
2 Rough//Tumble: I had the strong feeling that the deck needs a little extra vs the rising Merfolk, while it's also nice against Maverick, Goblins and Elves.
Edit:
I still don't know if I should play Forked Bolt (better vs Thalia and Mother (or even Lackey) on the draw) or Fire//Ice (Blue (FoW), and I won games by tapping a Maze of Ith, Griselbrand or other scary blockers, where my opponent would have recovered on 3/4/5 life if didn't had that option).
Hello! I have been playing an variant of Gaudenis Vidugiris rug deck from GP- Atlanta at local tournaments. I really like the four spell pierces and have been quite ambivalent about the stifles in many other deck lists. I think the idea with playing some thing like thought scours to up the tempo and put more pressure is right but i think the card is a little to week to make the cut. (Since it more or less only is needed with Goose) I would like to make a case for a substitute that does close to the same thing but have other benefits and makes it less situational.
I have been playing Gitaxian probe for a while and found it amazing! it has won me several games on its own. Have any one tried it? I dont try to say it is the answer to everything in the meta. The hard match ups like maveric will need other solutions. But it makes the other cards in the deck more power full.
Goose gets another card in the grave.
Goyf gets an sorcery.
The counters know what to counter
The draw and filter knows what to draw and filter.
Quite often it lets you play more aggressively. Instead of keeping mana up for counters you can some times just play all your creatures and go for it even though the matchup tells you to save mana so you can play a pierce and also keep one up to pay for Dace.
The life loss have not been a problem so far and many times it actually feels like it builds the grave faster than Thought Scour. Gitaxian probes ability to know what you are supposed to do with your mana in turn one is really good and it give you the opportunity to play really efficient next ones to come.
Any thoughts?