Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
Has anyone really given Bonfire a try? Sorry for the small post, but it seems like a ringer...
-ABC
A ringer like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8LFyyiv93s
In other words, people have asked about it and other people who have actually played magic before have told them why it's bad: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...archid=1204524
Edit: hmm, looks like the thread-search tool doesn't provide a unique link. My suggestion to anyone posting in a well-established archetype that you don't follow compulsively (like I do with too many threads :frown:) is to use the "Search Thread" tool on the upper-right side of the page. You don't even have to read the results, just skim. In this case, you would have seen over 10 posts that specifically reference "Bonfire" and most explain why it's bad.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Terminus is in one of our main colors so it is far easier to cast, kills everything for (1), and if we cared about the damage we can do much better per mana with Entreat.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shawn
Terminus is in one of our main colors so it is far easier to cast, kills everything for (1), and if we cared about the damage we can do much better per mana with Entreat.
I think Terminus and Entreat are better at what you're trying to do. However, if you weren't in White, then Bonfire is excellent.
-Matt
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Iif you weren't in White, then Bonfire is excellent.
-Matt
RUx Countertop!?
Matt, you sly devil, what have you got up your sleeve!?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
klaus
Thanks for writing this up :)
I'm going to try to make more of an effort to remember and write up reports when I can. Hopefully I can express the game states clearly enough that people will have things to say about different plays or at the very least about sideboarding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thecrav
Terminus is freaking sweet. At the end of the turn they cast emrakul, putting it at the bottom means that their entire extra turn was spent durdling. You've effectively given them an extra land drop and nothing else
Unfortunately Eye of Ugin makes Terminus somewhat lackluster. Blood Moon is there to help. Counterbalance + Top can be good early, but quickly loses value if they naturally draw their Cloud Posts. It's really a pretty rare deck since most people who have Candelabra of Tawnos will be playing High Tide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Secretly.A.Bee
Has anyone really given Bonfire a try? Sorry for the small post, but it seems like a ringer...
We talked about it a while back. I brewed up a "big RUG" Counterbalance deck that wasn't bad, although I don't know if it's still in this thread or not. Either way, it just wasn't as powerful as the W offers.
@ oarsman, I saw your match against Todd playing that weird Reanimator deck. It was pretty fun watching it from his side. Though in game 2, I'm curious why you didn't just Venser his Griselbrand instead of bouncing the Exhume. He'd get to draw 7, but drops to 1, has no more creatures in the yard, and has to produce either 2 blockers or an Elesh Norn to not die. Nice games though.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thecrav
RUx Countertop!?
Matt, you sly devil, what have you got up your sleeve!?
All the things. Deck's GOOD.
-Matt
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Dzra, the play you are suggesting sounds so much better than what I actually did that I am embarrassed. I didn't even think about that. I don't remember the exact situation, but I know I was afraid he would draw a land and be able to recast the Exhume. The best I can come up with is that against a deck with counters I probably wouldn't want them to draw seven. And since most reanimator decks have counters, I just spaced out for a second and feared that would happen.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oarsman
Dzra, the play you are suggesting sounds so much better than what I actually did that I am embarrassed. I didn't even think about that. I don't remember the exact situation, but I know I was afraid he would draw a land and be able to recast the Exhume. The best I can come up with is that against a deck with counters I probably wouldn't want them to draw seven. And since most reanimator decks have counters, I just spaced out for a second and feared that would happen.
Right or wrong, I would have made the same play. But it's mostly because I always have the bad luck to be against a Griselbrand who always draws a Force of Will in their first 7.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oarsman
Dzra, the play you are suggesting sounds so much better than what I actually did that I am embarrassed. I didn't even think about that. I don't remember the exact situation, but I know I was afraid he would draw a land and be able to recast the Exhume. The best I can come up with is that against a deck with counters I probably wouldn't want them to draw seven. And since most reanimator decks have counters, I just spaced out for a second and feared that would happen.
If you have reason to believe his deck has counter magic then the decision definitely becomes a lot tougher. Since it seemed like you were basically all in on the Venser keeping Griselbrand off the table, I think that it's still likely worth risking him drawing into counter magic rather than relying on your one draw step to prevent his incoming Exhume the following turn. Looking at the video one more time though, he does leave Badlands up, possibly representing the ability to draw into REB. Either way, you're always great to watch and I've definitely had my fair share of bloops.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
I'm sorry to ask you this Drza but after reading your last report, i was very interested to know your decklist. Unfortunately, i couldn't find it in the 40 previous pages so i gave up :(.
Could you please paste it here again or maybe send it to me by private message ?
Thank you very much.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
What do you think about the new counter "swan song"? do you think there is room for it in this deck?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cschacal
What do you think about the new counter "swan song"? do you think there is room for it in this deck?
One thing that should be taken into consideration is how bad the 2/2 Bird token really is for us. Something that can only be found out with some testing. Against S&T we want to lock them out of the game with Counterbalance or just delay their combo while beating them with Snapcaster/ Vendilion/ Venser or Combo Kill them with Entreat or Helm of Obedience. Against Storm decks Flusterstorm is always strictly superior, but Swan Song is still very good because it can counter some keycards.
On the other hand Swan Song seems very bad against RUG Delver or Jund and any additional pressure is really tough in these matchups.
Flusterstorm is still king against RUG Delver.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Spell Pierce is probably just better. That's the conclusion I came to, anyway.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cschacal
What do you think about the new counter "swan song"? do you think there is room for it in this deck?
In the context of Miracle, Swan Song serves almost the same purpose as Flusterstorm, assuming your version runs it. I don't believe SS would replace the SP slot.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
But Flusterstorm is incredibly good. I'm not cutting my nigh uncounterable counterspell for 1.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Still not ignore that Swan Song would be a much better mid-/lategame card compared to Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce ... It's a real skilltester with Jace, Terminus, Entreat basically able to negate the drawback.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Still not ignore that Swan Song would be a much better mid-/lategame card compared to Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce ... It's a real skilltester with Jace, Terminus, Entreat basically able to negate the drawback.
For me, its limitations in countering plus drawback more or less puts it behind pierce. True its more useful mid to late, but by then...we should have UU already for a hard counterspell.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sarapfish
For me, its limitations in countering plus drawback more or less puts it behind pierce. True its more useful mid to late, but by then...we should have UU already for a hard counterspell.
This.
-
Swan Song has no maindeck potential imo and when it comes to SB options there are strictly better choices.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Couple questions.
What do you think about playing Academy Ruins in a 22 land manabase? In my short experience I've already had trouble drawing it in my initial hand. It's nice to be able to randomly recur explosives but yeah... (cage, canonist, needle side, not playin helm).
Is V.Shackles worth it main or sb?
The list I'm testing (any kind of criticism appreciated):
1 Explosives
4 Top
2 Snapcaster
2 Clique
1 Venser
4 Balance
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Fow
2 Pierce
4 Swords
3 Jace
2 Entreat
3 Terminus
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Misty
1 Polluted
1 Scalding
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic
SB:
1 Rip
1 Explosives
1 Cage
1 Needle
1 Shackles
1 Canonist
1 Blood Moon
1 E.Tutor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Wear/Tear
1 Pyroclasm
3 Elemental Blast
Not sure about the 4 Balance main or the E.tutor sb either.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ocean
Couple questions.
What do you think about playing Academy Ruins in a 22 land manabase? In my short experience I've already had trouble drawing it in my initial hand. It's nice to be able to randomly recur explosives but yeah... (cage, canonist, needle side, not playin helm).
Is V.Shackles worth it main or sb?
The list I'm testing (any kind of criticism appreciated):
Not sure about the 4 Balance main or the E.tutor sb either.
Just wanted to say that we play the exact same main except I'm -1 Counterspell, +1 Ponder, -1 Force, +1 Misdirection, and a slightly different mana base. I've been loving the 2-2-1 split of Snapcaster, Clique, and Venser. Some people dislike the Snapcaster in favor of more Cliques but I find that I get rolled over by aggressive strategies too often without it.
I tried Academy Ruins for a while and found that the colorless mana hurt me more often than I was able to get advantage from it by recurring explosives. Also, I think that 22 lands is a little on the low end without the extra Ponder. I know it's just one card but it has smoothed my draws countless times. I would either go 23 land or 22 + Ponder. You do not want to miss your first 3 land drops.
4 Counterbalance has been great. I used to run 3 but I haven't looked back since going up to 4. I seem to assemble CounterTop so much more often than I did before and even when the first gets Decay'd I always seems to have the second. It wins a surprising amount of matches by just locking them out faster. It also gives you a much bigger chance against Burn and Combo, especially game 1. I'd keep the 4 main.
I haven't played with Shackles or Enlightened Tutor in the board. I can see situations where Shackles would be cool, but I feel like it's more of a cute thing, especially with all the Abrupt Decay running around. I really dislike the card disadvantage from Tutor, but if you have silver bullets you like to fetch, then I'm sure it can be worthwhile. Here's my SB for reference.
3 Rest in Peace
2 Wear // Tear
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Terminus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Misdirection
