Sorry for the double-post, but this has nothing to do with my previous post, so I figure that it's a safe double-post. Round 4 of 8 during SCGKNOX is a UW Stoneblade with red and Factories. Is that one of you guys? Just wondering, I'm curious.
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Sorry for the double-post, but this has nothing to do with my previous post, so I figure that it's a safe double-post. Round 4 of 8 during SCGKNOX is a UW Stoneblade with red and Factories. Is that one of you guys? Just wondering, I'm curious.
So I guess the more Aggro approach isn't such a good thing? Would you consider running Delver?Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Actually, Path to Exile is a great SB card if you need additional targeted removal regardless of if you play B2B or Blood Moon. I play PtE in my SB along with Moons in the main and side. You want 1CMC targeted removal against Delver decks mostly and those usually don't play any basic lands. Cards like B2B and Blood Moon are simply not that good against decks that have access to basics in general. Given our slow nature, the drawback of PtE shouldn't be an issue if your strategy for a specific matchup is cohesive. For example, I would still play PtE and Moon/B2B against Jund because I have to answer both Bob and Groves. Even if Jund plays 0-2 basics, giving them a basic doesn't invalidate my other cards' purpose.
If I played Stoneblade on a budget, I would stick to UW and play 4 StP along with 2-4 Verdicts in the main or side with at least 2 PtE in the SB. Overloading on removal and counterspells in the main and side is a good way to learn the format and how to dose disruption according to your meta. Get 4 Snaps as your next purchase and try to win with your SFM package and Jaces. Fill in the blanks with every StP, PtE, Verdict, Snare, Pierce, and Counterspell you can find.
Brainstorm is only good with fetchlands.
Ponders and Tops never hurt no matter how many you play.
We disagree often. The only delver he mentioned was bug. I guess pte won't be terrible against that but PtE won't be good against elves, dredge, mud, death and taxes, painter, Belcher, combo or burn. I think there are better choices for the board. Back to Basics is really good against bug. I would focus on that and deal with delvers using stp. That's just me I guess. Also, June is a bad example since he never mentioned it to be in his meta, regardless of the point you were trying to make.
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Wait what?
Path is fine against dredge, in fact its better than stp... Removal in general is BAd against belcher so I don't see your point there... Bug doesnt play basics so why wouldn't you play path along with your nonbasic hate? Also, any respectable delver deck will noT play basics... Exept maybe for ur burn which is more red than blue to begin with. Path is good against dnt, elves, and mud too so please explain.
Besides, since when giving a free basic is such a set back for a 1cmc exile removal in a dedicated control deck? Yeah it is bad on mana dorks but thats not what we play removal for in the first place.
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Path is totally fine, but probably not necessary, 4 StP and 2 SCM is probably enough. The only deck you really don't want to Path is DnT, but even then its better to give them a land rather than die. All the top delver decks in American or BUG or RUG delver are totally fine for paths. I don't run any just because I don't have slots in the sb for it, but 2 PtE are often on my mind, right now they are like card 78 and 79 of a 75 card deck:)
@Redesign: You're concept looks like a mix between death and taxes and standard u/w stoneblade. I don't think those hybridize very well. If your looking for the cheaper path I'd encourage you to go full on DnT as you seem closer to that list and you spend less money on Karakas/Port/Waste then 4 Bluw fetch and 4 Tundra and 2 Volc/Underground sea. Both decks are legacy competitive, but the brainstorm deck probably offers longer legs in terms of metagame shifts. Anyway, good luck and welcome to legacy, my other advice would be to be patient, but a few legacy cards each month with a clear decklist in mind and you'll end up with something you can play for a long time.
cheers
defector
In what world does anyone in their right mind think that boarding in removal against dredge is a good idea when you are a uwx build? I'm boarding out snappies and boarding in RIPs and Cage. As to removal being bad against belcher, that was exactly my point, so congrats, you did get it. Often now UWr delver will run an island due to people aggressively attacking their mana bases based on a assumptions like yours. It's okay against elves but not great. Chances are elves will just bounce with symbiote or quirion ranger whatever you target unless it is symbiote, then it's just a slight annoyance that they will bounce back from. Against mud, they play chalice, I play against mud often. My best friend plays it. I assure you, I have better luck winning when I treat my verdicts as spot removal than when I lean on StP/other 1cc spot removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
Basically, my first assessment of our beliefs still stands: we disagree often.
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Been revisiting the last list I used with 4 Ponders. I have been thinking of switching those with 4 Lightning Bolt and dropping a Spell Pierce for a Volcanic Island. My reasoning is that bolt is more removal for creatures and can with walkers till you get True Name-Nemesis and Umezawa's Jitte online. The proposed list would look like the following:
4 True Name-Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Blood Moon
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
4Brianstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
2 Flusterstorm
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rest in Peace
1 Graffdigger's Cage
2 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Feat and Famine
Please let me know your thoughts. I know lightning bolt can be awkward but I view it as a creature and planeswalker removal spell and not as "reach" as in other decks.
Path and stp are better than a lot of cards in blade decks against dredge. I take spot exile removal over cards like jace, verdict, ee, moon or b2b, and even nemesis. Thats a lot of cards to take out of the main for 2-3 rip/cage and a couple of soft counters... I would even bring in celestial purge back in the days to combat dredge and I know the matchup extremely well. Also, you should always keep snap even if you side in rip, he will still carry a jitte and you can flash block to exile bridges for 2 mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Its difficult to charge a jitte past symbiote so you might as well remove it. I am not saying you should path their drs or llanowar but by all means path their symbiote and heritage druids.
Even if american delver played 25 basics, path is still amazing against them. They rely on 10-12 threats to win the game backes up by 11-12 counters. The chances that our first stp gets countered are pretty high. The more the better.
Also, whats the deal with belcher? I dont understand. Why would you reply to my comment about path against delver decks with a response involving belcher? Whats the link that I am missing here?
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Sure. All of that is well and good and all, but I'm talking about what is in your actual 15 card sideboard. That's what you seem to be missing through all this. Are you actually playing Xx Path to Exile in your sideboard, because I can think of at least 5 other cards I'm currently not running in my 15 that I would run over Path, and definitely over Purge. You are correct that it's not a bad idea to leave in the Snapcasters. If you run these cards in your sideboard, you are sacrificing your other matchups. I board in about 4 cards against dredge and adjust my deck's goals and play accordingly. You are advocating playing sub-par choices in the sideboard. The cards are fine, but they are poor choices overall for this deck. In making the decision to run these cards, I must reiterate that you are sacrificing other matchups to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
You don't take out Jitte against elves. That's just bad advice. You try to get it online as soon as possible. You do not board it out, that's just stupid. StP on Symbiote/Ranger clearing the way for the creature equipped with Jitte is more than enough to get the job done. Paired with countering their main cards, you can win the matchup, especially if you draw Cage (if you board it in, I do).Quote:
Its difficult to charge a jitte past symbiote so you might as well remove it. I am not saying you should path their drs or llanowar but by all means path their symbiote and heritage druids.
There was no link. A period symbolizes the end of a thought, and then a new sentence allows the beginning of a new thought. I made my thought about belcher, and then presented a new thought on a new topic in a new sentence pertaining to Delver. I hope this clears things up for you.Quote:
Also, whats the deal with belcher? I dont understand. Why would you reply to my comment about path against delver decks with a response involving belcher? Whats the link that I am missing here?
@Lambert101: I love the lightning bolts, but I think its a bad idea. If you want to run 4 Bolt and 4 swords in the same deck i'd say check out American Delver, it does it better than we can. I think the PW removal card your looking for is True Name Nemesis and if you want some additional creature control maybe run 2 Supreme Verdicts. My current creature control package is 4 Swords and 2 verdicts, and it seems fine.I run two volcs main and no red cards main, i just have them for sb cards. I don't want to discourage you, just my two cents. Keep playing and testing, and let us know how it goes.
@Rancor: That list looks solid. I'm messing around with the red sb splash, so I haven't committed anything to the traditional Esper colors, but it looks strong. My feeling is that Lingering Souls and Thoughtseize just aren't very good anymore. i'm not sure what did it, but they don't seem to populate too many toop 8's. now legacy definitely has a bend and sway, so they may become good again, especially Thoughtseize, but they don't seem to be enough right now. I think its miracles more than anything, mid to late game top decks vs miracles with hand disruption just sting. On the other hands, souls and jitte counters win games. Keep it up:)
cheers
defector
Went 3-0 at the weekly, beating Enchantress (2-0), Jund (2-0) and RUG Delver (2-0). Sticking with straight UW until I die.
Right there with ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
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@abc,
I meant removing symbiote (with path), not jitte.
I think stp is a great card and a 5th copy is a good use of sb space. Cheap targeted removal is paramount against decks with delvers, drs, goyfs, sfm, and bobs. Especially if you stick with uw, you dont have that many options. Path is on the same level as additional verdicts in the board.
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Path is nowhere near the same level as verdict. Verdict deals with opposing TNN. It deals with an SnT'ed Emrakul. Verdict isn't too little too late against DnT's full board. I have Jaces, StP, Verdict both main and side, Humility, and Oblivion Ring, even Celestial Flare has more well rounded applications than Path. All these are better than Path and they handle more situations.
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I think the 5th spot removal spell is personal preference and a meta call. I know that for me, Snapcaster has lessened my desire for a 5th 1cc removal spell. However, my meta sees mostly fair decks that tend to have at least 2 dudes on board at any given time, so that's why I moved up to 2 maindeck Verdict.
I forgot to mention that I am playing a 5th removal spell in the main of my uw list. I play a singleton Unexpectedly Absent and it is amazing. It does so much work that I am considering a second somewhere in the 75. It's like a mono-white abrupt decay with so much more versatility it's ridiculous.
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Hmm. I've always looked at that card and thought it had applications as a 1-of as a pseudo-O Ring at Instant speed, and Snapcaster flashback is just a bonus. I'll likely shave my 2nd Verdict for it next week and see if it runs well.
I play it and two verdict main. I feel it's a catch-all and therefore doesn't fill the same role or slot. I do encourage you to try it however you manage to find room for it.
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