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Requiring colored mana is actually enough of an issue that it is worse than Field of Ruin for LD purposes. (Then again, FTW succeeded on his mission to get Assassin's Trophy on the base ban list which I thought was fine, so who knows.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
Field of ruin is banned though, isn't it? Regardless, with our current card pool, boseiju seems much better, since it's a lot easier to do a turn earlier. With our current ban list, for example, cracking field of ruin T2 would require sacrificing a land to get enough mana, and the same isn't true of boseiju.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
Field of Ruin is on the base ban list too, adding a green mana requirement to make it also a Naturalize isn't clearly making it weaker. Seeing it as practically halfway between two banned cards in Field of Ruin and Assassin's Trophy makes a ban feel logical.
New sets become legal in the round that starts after their official release. With new Kamigawa that'll be round 15 (assuming we hit every week). I personally feel that for these banathon types it's a bit strange to introduce new sets midway through. This is a particularly obvious example of a card that'll dominate the meta week 15 (either by being incredible, or by pushing everyone onto basics), and if it had been legal at the start would've certainly been banned by now. Even if we're not convinced it belongs straight on the main ban list, I'd suggest a ban for this season.
Banning it for this season makes sense to me, then we can play with it in other formats to see how good it ultimately isQuote:
Originally Posted by PJim
I usually allow new sets when they officially launch, but these days launches have become rather messy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
Arena launch is the 10th of february, prereleases are the 11th through the 17th and tabletop release is the 18th.
I am inclined to follow the tabletop release, as that's "proper" magic, to me. So I'm leaning to the 18th.
It does look good, but it needs two mana, and most mana accelleration is out already. Also, it doesn't hit basics.
So we can play around it, and OTP we should get to our two-drop. It might be fine for the last round or two we might have left in the running season.
If this card had already been released, I would have put it on the Original Ban List. We're just now running out of the last dregs of land hate because every way to kill lands that doesn't depend on connecting with a 1/1 has been banned, and I welcome the incoming Jurassic era. Sticking to basics is a big cost right now, cause you're priced out of 3 drops and higher (or you get one slow 3 drop). It would make the final week a rock-paper-scissors of basic > boseiju > non-basics > basics. I'm strongly in favour of banning it. I also think it would be in spirit of a banathon not to add the new set at all, and it's not too disruptive since it would only potentially shake up the very last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
Thinking about it, it's basically Trophy that can't hit basics in a format which actively makes basic lands rather poor choices. Considering that it has natural synergy with bouncelands, I think the ban is pretty much forced. (No Elixir effect needed, hitting one nonbasic is probably enough to do the trick. (This probably shows the foresight of the Elixir of Immortality base ban, as much as I liked Elixir.)Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
Overall I think Boseiju is weaker than Trophy and some other choices. Is Boseiju strong enough to be permabanned? I don't know. But would it have been banned by Round 11 of this bannathon? Probably yes. So then I think it should be pre-banned. It exceeds the power level of what we're playing with at this stage.
On your play you get to attack with the new tokens, but you also don't get to block with Alirios & bounce (will be tapped), so I can get more 3/3 attacks through too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
You're right that I can't win, but I think I can manoever around being put on the back foot.
Reeplcheep OTP
T1 Karakas, Puppet / tapped Battleground
T2 Chancery tapped / Mountain, sacrifice Battleground, Anurid Scavenger
T3 Karakas, Alirios tapped. 3/2 token / redraw Battleground, tapped Battleground, Fanatic
T4 Alirios doesn't untap. Attack with token. Fanatic chumps & pings you [R=19] / redraw & play Fanatic. Anurid attacks [R=16] EOT Karakas bounces Alirios
T5 Alirios tapped. 2nd 3/2 token. 1 token attacks [F=17] / upkeep ping untapped token, redraw Fanatic, ping again (dead), Anurid attacks [R=13]
T6 Alirios doesn't untap. Attack with token [F=14] / redraw & play Fanatic. Anurid attacks [R=10] EOT Karakas bounces Alirios
You can stall by chumping with Puppet, but I don't think you can actually get me on the back foot here, because I can also eventually chump with Fanatic again & ping for the last damages before you have enough to swarm around him.
If you stop attacking at a high enough life, then I can't attack back either and I have to use up pings to match your token production (instead of letting you get some tokens and racing them with pings), so we would draw.
WD 4-1?
Edit: If you don't attack with the 3/2 on turn 4, I can double ping on my turn 4 and freely attack with my 3/3, so you can't put me on the back foot that way (and you still have to bounce the 2/3 before it untaps, otherwise you miss a turn on token production)
Trophy also hits creatures, so they're not comparable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
But there seems to be quite a bit of support for a ban, so if there's no opposition, I'll ban it before it becomes legal.
For round 11:
Results from maxx! and alphastryk aren't in yet, but I entered their opponent's scores for the games and did some napkin math for their h2h.
There were two disagreements: FTW has addressed his disagreement with Reep, so there's just the disagreement between Wrath and Gobbo left.
Considering all this, it looks like I can somehwat safely lock in bannings for round 12. These are out:
Ancient Spring
Bazaar of Baghdad
Gemstone Mine
Goldmire Bridge
Hunted Horror
Meddling Mage
Priest of Fell Rites
Priest of the Blessed Graf
Ruins of Trokair
Serra's Emissary
Tocatli Honor Guard
It does not hit creatures, but on the other hand can turn itself into a land, making it (and play green) the best counter strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
And when one card is both powerful and the best at opposing itself, we enter mental misstep madness.
I also second that in the future, not entering new sets into banathons seems a good idea.
If everybody prefers it, we could keep the new set out of this season entirely, and only allow it from next season onwards. So far I haven't done this, because new sets arrive all the time, and it also shakes things up a bit, which can help keep a season exciting, but as it stands, the new set would only be legal for the last round anyway, so perhaps we can keep it out entirely. Let me know what you guys think.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
Meantime, let's get round 12 going.
ROUND 12 OF SEASON 11: LEGACY CREATURES & LANDS BANNATHON has started.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 12, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 2nd of February at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Quicksand, Dauthi Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S11R12 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy deckbuilding! :smile:
For a season of individual deviant rounds, adding sets seems fine. For banthons, I like preserving the decreasing nature of the card pool.
Until Flayer mana, GoblinSmashmaster can attack with both creatures for a faster clock. Gearhulk isn't forced until Wrath tries to stop the 1/1s.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
Then Mind Flayer targeting Goblin Welder -> sac Neonate -> Weld in Noxious Gearhulk -> ETB trigger kills Flayer. +3 life. Stealing Welder is countered -> Wrath has 0 creatures -> Welder + Gearhulk keep attacking
If Wrath waits longer to have UU to bounce the Gearhulk with ETB trigger on the stack, the ETB trigger still resolves killing Flayer and countering the steal. Wrath still has 0 creatures. Then Brazen Boi takes a few turns to cast and can't block ground creatures. I don't see how Wrath can win.
Bouncing Welder instead (in response to Neonate sac) doesn't help because then Great Furnace is still in play. So Mind Flayer would resolve (target fizzled), then Welder is replayed and Welds in Gearhulk killing Mind Flayer.
Once there are 3 counters on cove, Welder cannot attack or dust bowl takes the game. Then wait for 13 counters, destroy the land, bounce and steal.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
I messaged Asthereal already, but asking here in case any of the veterans know: It's ok to change decklists before the deadline? I submitted a deck that is, let's say... Barely functional, lmao.
Yes it is, no problem :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
Thanks! If anyone was wondering, it was:Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
Nomads en-kor, Daru Spiritualist, Starlit Sanctum, Concealed Courtyard
Yes, I'm not smart, lmao.
Yes, wouldn't work too well :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
I was out giving chess training. But it's cool. I'll ignore your first entry and post your new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
I am sad, however, that I don't get to beat your deck in infinite+x turns, killing your combo after it goes off, and then attacking with my awesome threat for a googolplex amount of turns, and then a few extra.
(Actually, I lied. I can stop your combo before it goes off. But it's more fun to assume I can't and we'll play the actual maximum amount of turns to win a game of 4CB.)
Sorry for missing the last 2 rounds of discussion. I've been super busy IRL. I appreciate everyone who put in the effort to calculate my results for me. I'll try to be active again for this next round.
We're complete at the deadline, so let's go:
DECKS FOR ROUND 12 OF SEASON 11: Legacy Creatures & Lands Bannathon
1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, MOUNTAIN, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger (Mountain replaces a banned card.)
2. dte: rakdos carnarium, karakas, Nils, discipline enforcer, Lavabrink Venturer
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Sidisi's Faithful, Goblin Settler
4. Wrath of Pie: Calciform Pools, Celestial Colonnade, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower
5. alphastryk: Stomping Ground, Llanowar Mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris Mage
6. PJim: Desert, Keldon Megaliths, Ghitu Encampment, Ice Floe
7. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Mangara of Corondor, Giver of Runes
8. Nasst: Bayou, Raugrin Triome, Tidehollow Sculler, Scion of Draco
9. RoosterCocoa: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Bane of Bala Ged
10. maxx!: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Settler, Sidisi's Faithful
11. silkster: Celestial Colonnade, Calciform Pools, Beloved Chaplain, Realm-Cloaked Giant
12. FTW: Plateau, Tireless Tribe, Blazing Rootwalla, Vengevine
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll create a tab for the round in our Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
And I still owe you standings for round 11:
1. silkster: 51 - 4,6
2. Nasst: 48 - 4,4
3. PJim: 45 - 4,1
4. GoblinSmashmaster: 39 - 3,5
5. FTW: 37 - 3,4
6. dte: 34 - 3,1
7. Wrath of Pie: 30 - 2,7
8. Asthereal (TO): 29 - 2,6
9. RoosterCocoa: 24 - 2,2
10. Reeplcheep: 22 - 2
11. alphastryk: 20 - 1,8
12. maxx!: 12 - 1,1
Which leads to these standings in the season:
1. PJim: 44,4
2. dte: 40,7
3. silkster: 40,6
4. Asthereal (TO): 34,8
5. Reeplcheep: 28
6. GoblinSmashmaster: 27,6
7. RoosterCocoa: 27,6
8. FTW: 27,5
9. Wrath of Pie: 26,4
10. maxx!: 26,2
11. alphastryk: 23,1
12. Nasst: 4,4
So PJim runs away from dte a little bit more at the top of the charts, and Nasst makes an impressive debut. We'll be following your career with great interest! :wink:
ANNOUNCEMENTS
1) Right now I'm leaning on not allowing the new set Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty at all during this running season.
If anyone opposes to this idea, let me know, but if most of you can live with it, we'll just allow the new set from next season onwards.
2) Idea for next season: I quite like the current season, but we're already playing the current season.
So I was thinking: how about we turn it around: a bannathon with no creature cards allowed. So we'll have to win with spells, lands, artifacts. That sort.
What do you guys think? Would this make for a fun season? And which cards should definitely be on the banned list at the start of this season?
1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, Copperline Gorge, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
6-0. Scavenger soon cannot attack, and a big venturer kills
6
2. dte: rakdos carnarium, karakas, Nils, discipline enforcer, Lavabrink Venturer
Me
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Sidisi's Faithful, Goblin Settler
0-6. I was so sure this deck would not show up anymore after Nasst showed how to beat it with 2-drops last turn.
6
4. Wrath of Pie: Calciform Pools, Celestial Colonnade, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower
6-0. I charge Niels, it could win alone (if you steal it I bounce it). Venturer for even helps a bit.
12
5. alphastryk: Stomping Ground, Llanowar Mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris Mage
6-0. Venturer for even, + 1 counter per turn wins by turn 8. I do not lose in clock by putting one counter on Niels to allow free blocks.
18
6. PJim: Desert, Keldon Megaliths, Ghitu Encampment, Ice Floe
6-0. Venturer on even
24
7. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Mangara of Corondor, Giver of Runes
6-0. Venturer on odd
30
8. Nasst: Bayou, Raugrin Triome, Tidehollow Sculler, Scion of Draco
0-6. Fun deck, and pretty well found! Much better than losing very slowly :) My other choice was a sculler deck too, but with your manabase from previous round (artifact indestructible land), would probably have been a better choice. But I actually thought no one would play lackey/settler then.
30
9. RoosterCocoa: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Bane of Bala Ged
0-6. Had this one for a while, always scarred to run it into sculler / meddler / landdes.
30
Edit, 3-3, OTP I can block and kill bane, and a 4/4 venturer survives. If bane does not attack, a 20/20 venturer protection against odd should take it. Also, I meant the scared with one less "r" :/
10. maxx!: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Settler, Sidisi's Faithful
0-6. Bad reading of the meta. Hope both of you get it banned this time!
30
11. silkster: Celestial Colonnade, Calciform Pools, Beloved Chaplain, Realm-Cloaked Giant
6-0. I grow Nils. If you play chaplain to block it, then I play lavabrink on even and grow it. If you kill all creature, Nils will go back in hand and take the game.
36
12. FTW: Plateau, Tireless Tribe, Blazing Rootwalla, Vengevine
3-3. OTP you beat me before I land something. OTD I play lavabring on even T3, you attack with walla (me 5), I play niels and put one counter on lavabrink.
39
Edit:42
And fully up for no creatures!
6. PJim: Desert, Keldon Megaliths, Ghitu Encampment, Ice Floe
Is bad Maze of Ith still reasonably good?
vs
1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, Copperline Gorge, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger / 0-6, Knew this was a bad matchup, you ping faster and get 3 free damage.
2. dte: rakdos carnarium, karakas, Nils, discipline enforcer, Lavabrink Venturer / 0-6, I've been sat on Nils for a while, but didn't want to risk him while one of the best known decks in the format uses Karakas. Either of your creatures beats me by itself.
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Sidisi's Faithful, Goblin Settler / 6-0, Desert.
4. Wrath of Pie: Calciform Pools, Celestial Colonnade, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower / 6-0, Megaliths will do more damage over time than Colonnade.
5. alphastryk: Stomping Ground, Llanowar Mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris Mage / 6-0, Can kill one 1/1 at your EOT, then the other on my turn to leave you without discard.
7. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Mangara of Corondor, Giver of Runes / 0-6, Bah, I beat this with Mother of Runes.
8. Nasst: Bayou, Raugrin Triome, Tidehollow Sculler, Scion of Draco / 0-6, Forgot my flying weakness.
9. RoosterCocoa: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Bane of Bala Ged / 2-2, I can't maintain enough lands to win, but Ice Floe will draw.
10. maxx!: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Settler, Sidisi's Faithful / 6-0, Desert.
11. silkster: Celestial Colonnade, Calciform Pools, Beloved Chaplain, Realm-Cloaked Giant / 6-0, Chaplain is irrelevant, Giant can do 7 damage once, but Megaliths will still race.
12. FTW: Plateau, Tireless Tribe, Blazing Rootwalla, Vengevine / 6-0, Desert and Ice Floe.
Nasst: Bayou, Raugrin Triome, Tidehollow Sculler, Scion of Draco
If last week taught us something, is that big creatures with evasion are good (Hunted Horror), and hand disruption is good (Meddling Mage). So I put that theory to the test with Tidehollow Sculler and Scion of Draco! :laugh:
1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, Copperline Gorge, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
6-0, OTD I take either the Firebrand or the Scavenger, and then Draco does the rest!
2. dte: rakdos carnarium, karakas, Nils, discipline enforcer, Lavabrink Venturer
6-0, I take Nils and race Lavabrink
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Sidisi's Faithful, Goblin Settler
3-3, the matchup I dreaded. OTP I take Sidisi's Faithful.
4. Wrath of Pie: Calciform Pools, Celestial Colonnade, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower
6-0? OTD I take Flayer, my clock kills on turn 6, you start your 6th turn with 4 counters, so not enough to trade colonade for draco. You can bounce something, but it just gets replayed.
5. alphastryk: Stomping Ground, Llanowar Mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris Mage
6-0, OTD you have to make a token t2 or I take Ulamog, so I get to take Kris. Scion kills way before the tokens can become an issue, specially with a 2/2 lifelinker on defence.
6. PJim: Desert, Keldon Megaliths, Ghitu Encampment, Ice Floe
6-0, Nothing here can deal with Scion.
7. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Mangara of Corondor, Giver of Runes
6-0 I get to take Mangara OTD.
8. Nasst: Bayou, Raugrin Triome, Tidehollow Sculler, Scion of Draco
That's me!
9. RoosterCocoa: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Bane of Bala Ged
Nice! I had that on my list of potential decks. [Cloudpost] is slightly better, since you make 7 mana by turn 3 as well, but also gain 3 life. Anyway, 6-0.
10. maxx!: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Settler, Sidisi's Faithful
Gobbos again :( 3-3
11. silkster: Celestial Colonnade, Calciform Pools, Beloved Chaplain, Realm-Cloaked Giant
6-0, I play Scion turn 2 and Sculler turn 3. You need to take a turn off from adding counters to play Chaplain. I'm fast enough that you don't get to trade colonade for Scion.
12. FTW: Plateau, Tireless Tribe, Blazing Rootwalla, Vengevine
Wow! This took me completely by surprise, even though it probably shouldn't have. 0-6!
54-12! Theory confirmed :laugh:
Bad Maze of It is not good enough to tap Scion :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
1) Sounds good! I like keeping the card pool shrinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
2) I feel like the base card ban list is *incredibly* bloated. This is would be my entire banlist for a creatureless season:
all 5 moxen
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
- fast mana with very little cost, that makes lands irrelevant
Burning Inquiry
- t1 game over on the play against 99% of decks
Balance
- for similar reasons to burning inquiry, but this can also be backbreacking when played on the draw.
And that's it! I know some choices would probably be controversial (all LD is in, all 1 mana discard spells are in, misstep is in, etc), but at the very least these are some cards which, in my estimation should definitively *not* be banned:
Channel (it's an interesting combo piece, specially in a format without eldrazi titans)
Dark Depths (The combo is hard enough to pull off, specially without hexmage)
Elixir of Immortality (there are many, many effects that let you recycle cards)
Fastbond (better mana acceleration is legal, and as a combo piece is interesting)
Flash (creatureless format, lmao)
Force of will (you're 2-for-1ing yourself, it's a real cost to pay for interaction)
Leyline of Singularity
Mana Drain (this is barely better than counterspell, which is unplayable, imo)
Mana Vault (this is mostly a worse dark ritual, dark ritual is legal)
Time Walk (i think people don't realize how big is this card's fall from regular magic to here)
Round 12, fight!
1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, Copperline Gorge, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger
Unfortunately, Copperline Gorge was banned back in round 9. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to beat Scavenger looping Firebrand. WW
6-0
2. dte: rakdos carnarium, karakas, Nils, discipline enforcer, Lavabrink Venturer
I don't see a way for me to both defend against Venturer and make progress towards Ulamog killing Nils to let my team through. LL
0-6
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Sidisi's Faithful, Goblin Settler
OTP I'm always able to get down a pinger before your Lackey, and can use it before it gets bounced, I don't see a way for Faithful to get you through it and longer term I build an army of blockers. W
OTD you're able to force through Lackey, blowing up my land and I do nothing from there. L
3-3
4. Wrath of Pie: Calciform Pools, Celestial Colonnade, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower
This feels like I spam out 1/1s until Mind Flayer takes away my Mentor on your turn 6, leaving me with 5 elves OTP and 4 OTD, not enough to attack profitable into your 3/3 but you can't attack either. I then play out Kris Mage which makes Borrower not so good for flying over, but Collonade eventually can. Kris Mage should win before that though I think - tentatively WW but I didn't math it out so probably wrong.
6-0
5. alphastryk: Stomping Ground, Llanowar Mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris Mage
me, shamelessly stealing a deck from last round
6. PJim: Desert, Keldon Megaliths, Ghitu Encampment, Ice Floe
Wow, I can't ever get through all this hate and I can't interact with it since its lands - really nice deck design. LL
0-6
7. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Mangara of Corondor, Giver of Runes
I should always be able to kill Mangara, even through Giver because I can use my pinger multiple times - first on your end step and then again on my turn with Giver tapped. That's enough. WW
6-0
8. Nasst: Bayou, Raugrin Triome, Tidehollow Sculler, Scion of Draco
Scion of Draco with these lands is really clever, can't believe it took this long - its a 4/4 Flyer for 2! Sculler comes down on your turn 2, OTP I can play out one of Mage of Mentor and leave mana up to discard Ulamog in response to the trigger, keeping whichever creature I play out. Unfortunately neither of them does enough vs Scion and your Vigilance + Lifelink Sculler. OTD its even worse. LL
0-6
9. RoosterCocoa: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Bane of Bala Ged
Even if I was able to span an army of tokens out, I can't make them fast enough to stop Bane. LL
0-6
10. maxx!: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Settler, Sidisi's Faithful
OTP I'm always able to get down a pinger before your Lackey, and can use it before it gets bounced, I don't see a way for Faithful to get you through it and longer term I build an army of blockers. W
OTD you're able to force through Lackey, blowing up my land and I do nothing from there. L
3-3
11. silkster: Celestial Colonnade, Calciform Pools, Beloved Chaplain, Realm-Cloaked Giant
I can't beat your Wrath. LL
0-6
12. FTW: Plateau, Tireless Tribe, Blazing Rootwalla, Vengevine
I can ping away Tribe / Rootwalla over time but I'm not able to produce enough blockers fast enough to feed of Vengevine. LL
0-6
Total: 24 even with the help of an illegal deck. Clearly the meta game has shifted significantly.
Desert can't kill lackey unless they choose to let you, since it won't exist anymore at the end of combat step (the trigger happens at combat step),because of Sidisi's faithful, they can kill a second land. I think you can get a draw by playing desert last.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
t1: Ice Floe
t1: Lackey
t2: Keldon Megalith
t2: attack, blow up floe
t3: Ghitu Encamptment
t3: Exploit Sidisi's faithful, blow up either land (they're forced to do this since next turn Megalith activates)
t4: Desert, draw
2-2
i think you can! I haven't done the math, but if you keep kris in hand, after the wrath, you play kris, ping face to discard ulamog and shuffle the mentor, and replay it agan. That's at least a draw, I haven't done the math.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
EDIT: You def can't draw, since if you chump giant every time, colonnade will eventually get in. Still not sure if you get to rebuild fast enough after the wrath, there's some intense math involved.
Asthereal deck is valid, the banned land just got replaced by mountain - I still do not get why not mountain (or the red artifact land to eliminate welder) in the first place.
Oh whoops, good call - that land doesn't need to make green at all, which means I LL there insteadQuote:
Originally Posted by dte
So I steal FTWs deck from last round and last round nobody noticed that one of his cards were banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
According to the new rule for people playing banned cards is that they get to replace them with a basic land, which in my case will be a Mountain.
Edited the post with the decks. Also, I assume that changing FTWs Gorge from last round into a Mountain shouldn't influence his results.
Fun fact: I was the one getting the Gorge banned and forgot about it. I have too much on my mind.
You do rebuild faster, colonnade is 4 damages every 6 turns, giant takes 7 turns upfront (the times it can be made, it can be killed by blocking it with 7 tokens), so it is WW for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasst
If you read my last round results carefully, it was calculated with Mountain replacing Copperline Gorge. I guess no one else noticed. Mountain is good here too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Yeah, I did not do that. As demonstrated by stealing your deck without changing that particular card. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Since i metagamed too hard last time around a deck that didn’t show up, I decided to just play it this time.
7. Reeplcheep: Karakas, Azorius Chancery, Mangara of Corondor, Giver of Runes
1. Asthereal (TO): Havenwood Battleground, MOUNTAIN, Fanatical Firebrand, Anurid Scavenger (Mountain replaces a banned card.)
LL per above.
Edit: actually WL per my post below.
2. dte: rakdos carnarium, karakas, Nils, discipline enforcer, Lavabrink Venturer
LL per above
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Sidisi's Faithful, Goblin Settler
This is what the puppet was for last round. Sigh. LL
4. Wrath of Pie: Calciform Pools, Celestial Colonnade, Mind Flayer, Brazen Borrower WW
5. alphastryk: Stomping Ground, Llanowar Mentor, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kris Mage
LL per above.
6. PJim: Desert, Keldon Megaliths, Ghitu Encampment, Ice Floe WW pro colourless coming in hot
8. Nasst: Bayou, Raugrin Triome, Tidehollow Sculler, Scion of Draco
LL per above
9. RoosterCocoa: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Bane of Bala Ged I kill something on t4, you kill 2 things on your t4. WD
edit: I don’t actually need karakas if I only plan on using Mangara once. WW
10. maxx!: Volcanic Island, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Settler, Sidisi's Faithful why I ran puppet last round. Sigh. LL
11. silkster: Celestial Colonnade, Calciform Pools, Beloved Chaplain, Realm-Cloaked Giant kill all your lands and then win the race. You can’t draw because I have protection too. WW
12. FTW: Plateau, Tireless Tribe, Blazing Rootwalla, Vengevine
T1 you hit me for 4, t2 you can’t attack with tracker and rootwalla trades so another 4. T3 you hit for 5 and then t4 I stabilize. WW
11W 11L for 33/66. Better than I thought, but I am horrible at guessing the meta.
12. FTW: Plateau, Tireless Tribe, Blazing Rootwalla, Vengevine
I thought I submitted my other choice and was excited to see this meta (which it would do well in). Then I saw my deck. Must have switched to Vengevine at the last minute. Maybe Vengevine will work too.
1. Asthereal (TO): You can stabilize just in time at 1 life with turn 3 Fanatic. Fanatic can infinite chump Vengevine while pinging away the X/1s and then me. Should have played around my own tech. LL 0-6
2. dte: OTP I kill on turn 3 before you play anything. OTD you get turn 3 Lavabrink at 8 life. I can still get damage through, but then Nils + making Lavabrink 4/4 stops me. WL 3-3
3. GoblinSmashmaster: Lackey can't get through 2 1/1s. If you use Sidisi as a wall, Vengevine beats through. If you bounce Vengevine (sacrifice Sidisi or Lackey), my 2 1/1s win through whatever's left. WW 6-0
4. Wrath of Pie: You T2 bounce Vengevine to stall, but Brazen Boi can't block and the others are too slow to stabilize. WW 6-0
5. alphastryk: Vengevine's too fast. WW 6-0
6. PJim: OTP if you play T1 Ice Floe, my T2 attack gets you to 8 and then you freeze Vengevine. Then you play Desert. I can deal only 4+1 before Desert stabilizes you at 3 life. LL 0-6
7. Reeplcheep: Giver over Mother matters! OTP I attack you to 16, you play Giver, then I have to keep back Tireless Tribe on next attack [R=9]. You play Chancery. I attack with everything and you kill Rootwalla [R=4]. Then you tap out for Mangara. Giver must block Vengevine, so I can get 1 damage through [R=3], but next turn you have Mangara+Karakas to kill Vengevine and win. LL 0-6
8. Nasst: Luckily I'm faster than this. Scion must trade with Vengevine, Sculler trades with Rootwalla, and the Tireless 1/1 gets there. WW 6-0
9. RoosterCocoa: OTP I win on turn 3. OTD you play T3 Bane at 8 life. I can't beat through a 7/5, but if you attack I trade with Vengevine + X/1 (sac other 2), so we draw either way. WD 4-1
10. maxx!: Same as above. WW 6-0
11. silkster: OTP I get you to 8 life before you play Chaplain. Next attack you can kill Rootwalla (3 life), but then you're forced to keep blocking Vengevine and lose to Tireless Tribe before you get enough mana to do anything else.
OTD you can do the same thing from 16 life, with plenty of time to stabilize. WL 3-3
40 points (13 wins, 1 draw, 8 loss)
Other deck would have been about 44, oh well, not too different.