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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iatee
Lately I take out Jitte, a Stp, Magus, Magus and bring in Crusader, Crusader, Pia/Kiran (or a 3rd Crusader), Warping Wail. So go heavier on immediate threats/humans + don't Blood Moon your own Caverns. If I have extra stuff to bring in like a Pithing Needle or Ratchet Bomb, I'll take out a Wingmare or Flickerwisp as a small hedge against Staticaster. Ever since Mentor+Staticaster became big I've left 3-4 StP in and can't recall ever losing a game with a dead one in hand. I am way more scared of them setting up an early Mentor or Staticaster than I am of the game going long, since this deck feels more inevitable than their win con.
In my experience something like 20% of Miracles players keep Counterbalance in against me g2/g3. With 3 Caverns there is a very good chance they'll have seen one G1, which is gonna help lead their hand even if they're not experienced in the match-up enough to take it out anyway. I think it is 100% correct to take them out even against Mono-W with no Caverns. They have some decent stuff to bring in, they need to keep FoWs for Cataclysm/Vial and they can't afford to play a card that is frequently just-dead, even if the upside exists. I honestly see the card Counterbalance so infrequently that sometimes I forget it's a part of the deck, let alone the reason why so many people resent playing the deck.
I have been playing Imperial w/ 3 Caverns for long enough that I don't know how much of this advice does or doesn't translate to mono-W (or mono-W with multiple Caverns), which has a faster clock but less inevitability. But I can say that hedging on StPs has post-board worked out for me very well, and has won me countless games. When it's not unreasonable to expect them to have something like 5-6 very good creatures post-board, it seems like Fiend Hunter might want some backup...
You boarding makes a lot of sense for a W/R list, but in a monowhite, double cavern shell already maxing out on Mirran Crusaders and not playing Wingmares, that leaves me with only Jitte and StP (and perhaps one Flickerwisp if I really want to push it) as potential side outs. Besides, I'm bringing 2 Council Judgements and a Warping Wail together with the Fiend Hunter (I've decided to cut both Cataclysm since our last discussion), so I still have 3-4 ways (other than Mangara and equipments) of answering problematic creatures that can also fill other roles if needed. So my boarding against Miracles currently looks like this: -4 StP, +2 Judgement +1 FH +1 Wail. I will try leaving 1 plow in and take out the Jitte instead, since jitte seems very very bad as an answer to Staticaster.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Yeah I guess if you're bringing in two Council's Judgements and a Wail you're not actually going down in removal much when it comes down to it.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Anyone play a green splash at all recently? A maverick death and taxes style hybrid I guess
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Teeg is too narrow to maindeck now that DTT isn't everywhere. Pridemage is okay, having a disenchant main is not terrible, especially if your deck is built to take advantage of exalted. And Sylvan Library is just a very good card, despite being a little bit of an awkward fit for the deck overall.
Having played a (very greedy) splash for a year straight now I believe the costs to mana inconsistency are not nearly as large as people imagine, and I would imagine you could build a GW build that performs about as well as Mono-W in the current meta - but you probably don't want many of the normal splash creatures main. Sylvan Library + better SB cards are probably 'worth' the drawbacks of a slightly less consistent manabase. If Eldrazi is the problem-to-solve then a light Green splash doesn't offer much that W doesn't, though I guess you could go even more Mavericky and start playing KotR.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Speaking of Green, yesterday Bahra streamed a new D+T variant with 4 Caverns, almost all humans (+Sfm, Revoker), 0 flyers and 4 Mayor of Avabruck, 4 Recruiter. Mayor's been a card I've been wanting to test for a while, at least as a one-of, after seeing it in Vintage lists.
The deck had mixed results due to a few punts / the fact that it wasn't tuned / losing to an Eldrazi God hand, but Mayor of Avabruck was a serious threat. The card is like Young Pyromancer in that it doesn't 'just win' upon resolution but it takes over the game within a few turns if if left unchecked. The most interesting thing about it was that on multiple occasions opponents were forced to awkwardly sequence their Brainstorms just to prevent Mayor from flipping, which means that the card + any other Innistrad werewolves actually have an interesting taxing effect attached.
I'm at least convinced that the card is 'a playable legacy card', whether it's in Naya taxes, a WG D+T humans list without red, actual-Maverick or a 4c/5c human tribal build, similar to the Vintage ones (e.g. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/19-09-14-4c-humans/). The last one would probably not be classifiable as Death and Taxes anymore and probably shouldn't play Port and Magus of the Moon. But I wouldn't be surprised if you could make an 'about as good as legacy Slivers' deck out of it that would be a lot of fun to play.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Yesterday I played another small event at my LGS winning it with 4-0. I am really happy with latest tournaments I've played (my overall record in the last 4 events is 15-2-2).
This time I won 2 Shardless BUG, BUG Control and Esper Stoneblade.
I changed a bit the way to go with my list, focusing games a bit less on the mana denial plan because of the change of the metagame caused by Eldrazi.
Right now I'm trying to focus the list in grindy matchups that are increasing in quantity, getting a bit worse Delver matchups (still being good matchups in general) and Infect, that is the matchup in which I see the change worse but if you know how to play the matchup you have a real chance.
Well, this is the most recent list I'm running:
MAINDECK:
4 x Mother of Runes
4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Phyrexian Revoker
2 x Serra Avenger
4 x Flickerwisp
2 x Mirran Crusader
2 x Mangara of Corondor
4 x Aether Vial
4 x Swords to Plowshares
1 x Batterskull
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
1 x Umezawa's Jitte
4 x Wasteland
4 x Rishadan Port
7 x Plains
4 x Flagstones of Trokair
3 x Karakas
1 x Cavern of Souls
SIDEBOARD:
2 x Council's Judgment
2 x Cataclysm
2 x Pithing Needle
2 x Mirran Crusader
3 x Ethersworn Canonist
1 x Sword of War and Peace
3 x Rest in Peace
I left out the set of Vryn Wingmare to improve specially against Shardless BUG and Eldrazi (although I had a great record against Eldrazi even with Vryn Wingmare version) among others, having also a maindeck solution against new hate cards as Moat could be, but probably I'd return to 4 x Vryn Wingmare for a major event because there are a lot of Delver decks in those tournaments as they are super consistent. Other options could be Ratchet Bomb or Dismember as sideboard cards. I really like that we have different options for flex slots for lots of different situations and metagames and they change the playstyle a lot, letting you to improve with your deck and in general as a Legacy player.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iatee
Having played a (very greedy) splash for a year straight now I believe the costs to mana inconsistency are not nearly as large as people imagine, a
Yeah I agree. I've been playing 2 basics in R/W since the deck's inception and it's fine.
You do however get BTFO out by WW taxes if they get even a mild mana-disruption + revoker draw, so that's something to keep in mind.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Tonight I played an Imperial list with
3 Plains / 1 Plateau / 3 Cavern
2 Flickerwisp / 2 Wingmare as the only flyers
1 Mangara / 1 Fiend Hunter as the last flex spots
and a SB of:
3 Ethersworn
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Relic Warder
1 Containment Priest
1 Fireslinger
1 Manic Vandal
I beat BUG Delver, Fish and Burn and split with Infect.
I liked the Fiend Hunter main, but I did play 4 creature decks. It was good in one game vs BUG Delver and potentially game winning in another vs Fish. In both cases the body wasn't particularly relevant and in one case a 2/2 Banisher Priest would have marginally better. I am still a bit hesitant about a main deck 1/3 vs Storm/Miracles. But I guess the Miracles matchup is strong enough that it's not that terrible, and Storm isn't in a great spot right now.
I think going down on flyers is okay if post-board there are 4 STP, 2 PTE and 2 Fiend Hunters for Delvers / opposing flyers. Having 8 pieces of pure removal post-board makes this deck play so differently vs creature decks.
I have yet to regret going to 3 Plains / 1 Plateau. I think it's very likely the right configuration.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iatee
Tonight I played an Imperial list with
3 Plains / 1 Plateau / 3 Cavern
2 Flickerwisp / 2 Wingmare as the only flyers
1 Mangara / 1 Fiend Hunter as the last flex spots
Mayor of Avabruck being mentioned earlier piqued my interest and I've been working with it, but haven't had a chance to take it out yet.
My mana-base is currently very similar to yours:
3 Plains / 1 Plateau / 3 Cavern / 5 Fetch / 4 Wasteland / 4 Port / 3 Karakas
Normal 11 Spells
And my creature-base is:
4x SFM, Mom, Thalia / 3x Recruiter, Revoker / 2x Flickerwisp, Magus, Mayor / 1x Mangara, Vryn Wingmare
The SB is in flux right now, as I'm going back and forth between 3 Crusader, Canonist, RIP and then a slew of 1-of's to tutor for if need be.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Yeah Mayor is very interesting, I get the sense that there's *some* place in legacy for that card - it's a bear that just runs away with the game on its own if left unchecked, which actually puts it among an elite group of cards in the game. It's even stronger in a deck that has 'too many targets' for their removal, since something usually ends up alive.
Maybe this deck is the home, or maybe some sort of zoo or true human tribal deck could use it (4 Thalia, 4 Bob, 4 Mayor, 4 Mother of Runes, etc.). Let us know how the testing goes.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ap/18.jpg
Could this guy come in vs anything beyond Infect?
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iatee
Could this guy come in vs anything beyond Infect?
Wirewood Sybiote and Quirion Ranger...... very interesting
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
I've always played at least 1 Fiend Hunter main in my Imperial builds and have never regretted it.
Going that low on Flickerwisps seems somehow wrong, however, that card is just so strong in D&T (and even stronger perhaps in Imperial).
You mention "strength against Miracles" and I agree. What initially drew me to the red splash was the power of chain imperial recruiters against Miracles; also the incidental 3 Caverns was very strong.
However, at SCG Indy I went 0-3 vs. Miracles... and the games played out in a strange way.
First (quick aside) I actually went 0-1-2 vs. Miracles... however... in the 2 draw situations I choose to concede to my opponent; because... well.... maybe because I'm an idiot.. but i hate draws and don't want to be locked into a draw bracket. However, I'm tired of miracles players (good or bad) feeling like they don't actually have to win 2 to get a match win because they can just win 1; then as game 3 ticks to a close point at the board and say "I kinda have a lock out here... do you concede?" This bothers me. The point of a magic deck is to be able to play 3 games in 50 minutes and win 2 of them; not be able to win at least 1.. and then hope for a strong enough board state to convince your opponent you should concede.
Okay anyway back to the Miracles/Taxes match-up.
I have felt like Magus is a dead card vs. them; although Bahra seems to feel the card should be left in.
What was confusing then was that vs. all 3 miracles opponents they sided IN their blood moons. (I sided out my Magus's). I told Bahra this and he said "well they are bad miracles players." Perhaps. But I found that not having access to Karakas, and (most important) Cavern of Souls was a huge hit to me... and the Blood Moon actually made it quite difficult for me to win... the exception being able to easily cast the sideboard P&K I brought in.
Without access to Cavern or Vial (all opponents brought in at least 1, if not more, wear/tears) I found it almost impossible to recover from the first Terminus in which a countertop lock or semi-lock had been acheived. Granted they didn't have any threats either (hence the technical draws)... but without Cavern I felt like once Vial was taken care of .. I had very little hope of getting a creature resolved.
Thoughts?
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
@iatee: Devoted Caretaker would be my vote if we're looking at pseudo-Mom #5.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
I always side out Magus vs Miracles. Caverns are too good and Miracles fetches for basics early. I have won some g1s with Magus, but you can't count on it.
I think you just got unlucky and probably did play against bad Miracles players. If Blood Moon wasn't color screwing you and was merely keeping you off Cavern, your Vials were dead/offline + they had Countertop-lock, then you lost a game that any Death and Taxes build would lose. They had the right cards at the right time.
Leaving in Counterbalance g2/g3 is a bad decision for Miracles - they can't expect to hit Wear/Tear + Blood Moons reliably, and the card is terrible against 4 Vial / 3 Cavern otherwise. It shouldn't be left in vs Mono-W, but especially shouldn't be left in vs Imperial, which is more likely to have Caverns and generally has a higher density of 3 drops that can sneak through a live Counterbalance regardless.
Counterbalance/Blood Moon are only good in certain situations - they happened to hit those situations. Far more frequently Counterbalance is a totally dead card. Blood Moon has some value but also shuts off their ability to shuffle to a Terminus and costs them a card while doing so. They're playing 2 more spells that don't reliably interact with creatures. Basically we should side out *our* Blood Moons for the exact same reason they should side out their Counterbalances and not bring in their Blood Moons - it can be quite good, it can be quite bad, it's better to play cards that don't have that risk attached. (Back to Basics, the other Miracles Eldrazi tech, seems way better for that reason, both against us and in general...)
Sometimes they'll get away with this and Counter-top lock is miserable when it gets you, but if you're already playing 4 Vial and 3 Cavern of Souls, you're already doing about as much as you'll ever want to do to ensure that you don't have to worry about it.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arsenal
Yeah that's not the worst, though it doesn't do much during the first few turns when you're curving out and it really matters. But the Mom-effect is more the extra-upside - the primary use would be to destroy Infect w/ an uncounterable 2 drop that doesn't care about naturalize effects.
Good call on Wirewood/Ranger, c2232. I think it would definitely come in. So there's two matchups. I think you bring it in in the mirror to suck up STPs and Flickerwisp activations. It's not incredible in either of those matchups, but it's pretty decent.
Against black decks you'd be bringing in another x/1 which is not really where you want to be.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AsmodeusDM
First (quick aside) I actually went 0-1-2 vs. Miracles... however... in the 2 draw situations I choose to concede to my opponent; because... well.... maybe because I'm an idiot.. but i hate draws and don't want to be locked into a draw bracket. However, I'm tired of miracles players (good or bad) feeling like they don't actually have to win 2 to get a match win because they can just win 1; then as game 3 ticks to a close point at the board and say "I kinda have a lock out here... do you concede?" This bothers me. The point of a magic deck is to be able to play 3 games in 50 minutes and win 2 of them; not be able to win at least 1.. and then hope for a strong enough board state to convince your opponent you should concede.
Also, in the future you need to ignore your previous losses vs Miracles as bad luck / variance, take the draw in the future and embrace the draw bracket. You're playing Cavern of Souls and Imperial Recruiters and have an insane g1 against Miracles. Get in that draw bracket.
Also, giving Miracles players unearned wins allows them to play more optimally than they would given time constraints and play a deck with fewer win cons / more answers. If you're gonna play a deck with 3 win cons in the 60 + 1000 Top activations, the burden's on you to win twice in 50 minutes. So conceding is wrong for multiple reasons.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iatee
Wouldn't Spellskite just do the same, and actually has use for some other matchups?
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Spellskite dies to Nature's Claim, Grip, Corrupter, and gets shut off by Needle - all of which they're bringing in against us anyway and the Naturalize effects are probably going to be played in higher numbers now due to Eldrazi. Obviously you'd play it and it would be great most of the time, but this is a little better overall, and can't even be Daze'd if you have a Cavern, beating some of their strongest hands. It can be Piracy Charmed, for what it's worth.
Vs. non-Infect, this doesn't block well but doesn't cost life to use, which can add up. Spellskite isn't incredible vs Burn since they're bringing in a pile of Smashes and we have no U mana, can be Revokered/Needled by DnT and Rec Sage'd by Elves. But it is a solid wall.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Unexpectedly Absent
Just an idea I'll be testing in my fairly stock mono white list. (3 Mirran, 3 Avenger, 2 Mangara, 21 land)
Points of interest:
It messes with miracle cards and counterbalance triggers.
It messes with cascade triggers.
It gets stronger in response to a fetch/tutor effect.
It can save a creature from removal.
It can get any targetable nonland permanent off the field.
Loads of interactions for such a simple effect... :)
Edit: Just picked up the deck a few weeks ago and loving it.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Out of selfish curiosity since my meta is infested with D&T right now, what do you guys feel are your worst matchups?
I know Elves is one of the worst ones, but I'm curious to hear the perspective from the D&T side. Thanks!
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
I dislike seeing Shardless BUG. They run maindeck sweepers (and usually more of the same in the sb) that get around our traditionally Mom protection, they run basics + DRS to play around our mana denial plan and it's hard to swing past stuff like Baleful Strix and Goyf. Definitely a matchup a hope to avoid if possible.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arsenal
I dislike seeing Shardless BUG. They run maindeck sweepers (and usually more of the same in the sb) that get around our traditionally Mom protection, they run basics + DRS to play around our mana denial plan and it's hard to swing past stuff like Baleful Strix and Goyf. Definitely a matchup a hope to avoid if possible.
While it isn't as good as it used to be, Mirran Crusaser is still excellent in this match-up. If you expect lots of Shardless, SB Wilt-Leaf Liege is probably a good idea, too.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Agreed. I've moved to 2 maindeck Mirran Crusader for that very reason. Surprisingly, my 3 sb Warping Wail do major work vs. Shardless as many of their high impact spells, especially postboard, are sorceries. Also neatly deals with their DRS and Baleful Strix if nothing else.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Imperial Taxes is pretty thrilled to see Shardless, it always felt like a fair matchup when I played Mono-W.
The worst D+T matchups are:
- Combo decks that go off on t1, as there's no room for interaction
- Combo decks that are creature-based not spell based (Infect, Elves) as we're removal-light
- Decks with an insane amount of removal (Jund, Aggro Loam)
- For mono-W, 12-Post generally can out-mana the tax effects pretty quickly and just needs to resolve one threat to effectively win
Creature-based decks that do fair-but-unfair things (Knight of the Reliquary, TNN, etc.) and play a lot of lands can be slightly unfavored depending on the build.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
I have a question about side boarding.
My current 15 card sb is:
1 containment priest
2 cataclysm
2 canonist
1 needle
2 rip
1 enlightened tutor
2 wilt-leaf liege
1 seal of cleansing
2 council's judgement
1 Grafidiggers cage
This sidebaord has served me very well against lots of matchups, i do however run into some problems dealing with entreat the angels and elves (although i am already aware this is a horrible matchup). I was thinking of dropping the containment priest and 1 other card for 2 hallowed moonlights. My friends believe its a bit too narrow as having a card to deal with a specific situation is wrong, which i agree with. There are other situations the card is useful, it effectively counters GSZ and NO, as well as empty the warrens and other things of a similar nature. There is a large possibility I'm playing the match up wrong and I need more practice, but i would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
Cheers
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Warping Wail is your friend. Counters Entreat and Terminus (the primary Miracles tool that wrecks us), and then deals with effectively every card in Elves (hits virtually all their dudes + counters their NO, GSZ and Glimpse). This is also a boon in the mirror as it hits virtually every D&T dude and gets around Mom protection.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arsenal
Warping Wail is your friend. Counters Entreat and Terminus (the primary Miracles tool that wrecks us), and then deals with effectively every card in Elves (hits virtually all their dudes + counters their NO, GSZ and Glimpse). This is also a boon in the mirror as it hits virtually every D&T dude and gets around Mom protection.
I agree from my experience with Eldrazi that Warping Wail is a quite flexible tool. But what does your manabase look like to support it? 8 colorless sources clearly isn't enough to properly support Wail.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
This is the reason that stops me to give Warping Wail a try. We have a low number of colorless sources and we want to play aggresively with them. There are a very little room for reactive plays on D&T.
On the other hand, I agree with iatee words about worse matchups. I would include classic UWR Delver that could see more play on the actual metagame and has one of the best wincons against us (TNN + Umezawa's Jitte) apart from a bunch of removal. Other matchups like Jund can be improved with more Crusaders or WLL. I am running 4 x Mirran Crusader and feel the matchup really close if they don't see Punishing Fire early. Same for 4C Loam which without PF I feel a bit favorable because they have a manabase that can be attacked easily by us. This last matchup depends a lot on the number of sideboard slots they dedicate to D&T as well because there are lists with between 2-4 sweepers and others with flex slots like Null Rod or Sulfur Elemental. They run a lot of meat because they feel the D&T matchup is not good and as a 4C Loam player I share this thought too. But as in other matchups like Lands or Storm, I think we don't depend on ourselves to win because of some high-impact hate cards.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
I agree from my experience with Eldrazi that Warping Wail is a quite flexible tool. But what does your manabase look like to support it? 8 colorless sources clearly isn't enough to properly support Wail.
I'm usually at 9-10, depending on how I'm feeling that day.
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Flagstones of Trokair (this slot is the 2nd Cavern if I decide to go with 1 sb Cataclysm instead of 2 that day)
3 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
9 Plains
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Thanks for the info, guys! It jives with about what my thoughts were but I figured it's always best to ask the experts!
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koke_MTG
Yesterday I played another small event at my LGS winning it with 4-0. I am really happy with latest tournaments I've played (my overall record in the last 4 events is 15-2-2).
This time I won 2 Shardless BUG, BUG Control and Esper Stoneblade.
I changed a bit the way to go with my list, focusing games a bit less on the mana denial plan because of the change of the metagame caused by Eldrazi.
Right now I'm trying to focus the list in grindy matchups that are increasing in quantity, getting a bit worse Delver matchups (still being good matchups in general) and Infect, that is the matchup in which I see the change worse but if you know how to play the matchup you have a real chance.
Well, this is the most recent list I'm running:
MAINDECK:
4 x Mother of Runes
4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Phyrexian Revoker
2 x Serra Avenger
4 x Flickerwisp
2 x Mirran Crusader
2 x Mangara of Corondor
4 x Aether Vial
4 x Swords to Plowshares
1 x Batterskull
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
1 x Umezawa's Jitte
4 x Wasteland
4 x Rishadan Port
7 x Plains
4 x Flagstones of Trokair
3 x Karakas
1 x Cavern of Souls
SIDEBOARD:
2 x Council's Judgment
2 x Cataclysm
2 x Pithing Needle
2 x Mirran Crusader
3 x Ethersworn Canonist
1 x Sword of War and Peace
3 x Rest in Peace
I left out the set of Vryn Wingmare to improve specially against Shardless BUG and Eldrazi (although I had a great record against Eldrazi even with Vryn Wingmare version) among others, having also a maindeck solution against new hate cards as Moat could be, but probably I'd return to 4 x Vryn Wingmare for a major event because there are a lot of Delver decks in those tournaments as they are super consistent. Other options could be Ratchet Bomb or Dismember as sideboard cards. I really like that we have different options for flex slots for lots of different situations and metagames and they change the playstyle a lot, letting you to improve with your deck and in general as a Legacy player.
Nice list.. Matchup Vs eldrazi is difficult?
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caprino
Nice list.. Matchup Vs eldrazi is difficult?
It's not too much difficult. IMO is a 60%-40% in our favor. They have to draw really well in the first few turns in addition to their opening hand to don't let you stabilize the game putting an unstopable clock. Once you stabilize you only can lose through an animal topdeck like Endbringer, Reality Smasher or Umezawa's Jitte.
In our side Stoneforge and StP are really good of course, and Flickerwisp and Mirran Crusader are really helpful as well. These are the key cards for us. A T2 Stoneforge can be killed but you will have your Batterskull down winning the game for you if you get the long game we want. Flickerwisp could break Endless One or CotV allowing you to use your StP and in addition is a 3/1 body with flight. Mirran Crusader cannot be killed by the usual spot removal they run, only post-board if they run Spatial Contortion. Equiped with any equipment is probably game, kills TKS without a double chump-block and is really useful to have controlled creatures like Mimic, 2/2 Endless One, Revokers and Matter Reshaper until you stabilize the game. I think the mana denial plan is a bit worse here because they run a lot of lands, you should try it on the play with Vial only, otherwise save your Wasteland for the Eye or even a Mishra's Factory that can be a bit annoying. Don't worry about dead cards like Mother of Runes, they have theirs too with CotV (it's not too good specially on the draw) and Thorn of course.
I board as follows with my list:
-4 x Mother of Runes
-2 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 x SoFaI
+2 x Council's Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x SoWaP
I think the outs don't need explanation as Judgments and Crusaders. Pithing Needles are for wincons like Endbringer or Jitte and could be for Mishra's Factory too. I think is more important to close the opponent's Jitte than keep our Jitte open because it is not our main option but if they charge it, it could be game, and I think Revokers are not enough against a deck with 7+ spot removals post-board. Don't worry about CotV, opponent probably side out at least a couple of them depending on who starts. And finally I change the equipment because I feel that SoWaP is better to race a deck like Eldrazi giving us a difference of lifes that we need.
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koke_MTG
It's not too much difficult. IMO is a 60%-40% in our favor. They have to draw really well in the first few turns in addition to their opening hand to don't let you stabilize the game putting an unstopable clock. Once you stabilize you only can lose through an animal topdeck like Endbringer, Reality Smasher or Umezawa's Jitte.
In our side Stoneforge and StP are really good of course, and Flickerwisp and Mirran Crusader are really helpful as well. These are the key cards for us. A T2 Stoneforge can be killed but you will have your Batterskull down winning the game for you if you get the long game we want. Flickerwisp could break Endless One or CotV allowing you to use your StP and in addition is a 3/1 body with flight. Mirran Crusader cannot be killed by the usual spot removal they run, only post-board if they run Spatial Contortion. Equiped with any equipment is probably game, kills TKS without a double chump-block and is really useful to have controlled creatures like Mimic, 2/2 Endless One, Revokers and Matter Reshaper until you stabilize the game. I think the mana denial plan is a bit worse here because they run a lot of lands, you should try it on the play with Vial only, otherwise save your Wasteland for the Eye or even a Mishra's Factory that can be a bit annoying. Don't worry about dead cards like Mother of Runes, they have theirs too with CotV (it's not too good specially on the draw) and Thorn of course.
I board as follows with my list:
-4 x Mother of Runes
-2 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 x SoFaI
+2 x Council's Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x SoWaP
I think the outs don't need explanation as Judgments and Crusaders. Pithing Needles are for wincons like Endbringer or Jitte and could be for Mishra's Factory too. I think is more important to close the opponent's Jitte than keep our Jitte open because it is not our main option but if they charge it, it could be game, and I think Revokers are not enough against a deck with 7+ spot removals post-board. Don't worry about CotV, opponent probably side out at least a couple of them depending on who starts. And finally I change the equipment because I feel that SoWaP is better to race a deck like Eldrazi giving us a difference of lifes that we need.
I explain how to do the side and out side in against bugs, elves, rug, ant, mud, miracle, omnitell, sneak attack, infect etc ... against the tier that are found in the big tournaments.
so I write them for the next tournament I make ends meet, and I would like to take your lista.è the first time that this type of game deck
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
So I was goldfishing a mono-humans tribal build with Mentor of the Meek in it. In the context of the deck, the card felt extremely strong. Obviously that's the type of card that looks better when you're goldfishing, but I was considering testing it as a 1-of in Imperial SB for fair decks.
It's better in Imperial than it would be in Mono-W because it passes the crucial tests (2 power, human) and also actually rewards you for playing a build with almost nothing but 1/2 power creatures. The games also go longer than Mono-W games, for related reasons. It is a bit win-more and doesn't absolutely destroy anyone in particular. But as a pure value card for grindy/fair g2s, it seems like there's potential.
I might try something like this sideboard for a while:
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Fireslinger
1 Containment Priest
1 Manic Vandal
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Standard Bearer
1 Devout Witness
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
1 Path to Exile
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Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caprino
I explain how to do the side and out side in against bugs, elves, rug, ant, mud, miracle, omnitell, sneak attack, infect etc ... against the tier that are found in the big tournaments.
so I write them for the next tournament I make ends meet, and I would like to take your lista.è the first time that this type of game deck
Here you have some tips about how I board against some of the most common archetypes with this list. Questions or advices from anyone would be appreciated.
U/W/R Miracles
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Cataclysm
+2 x Pithing Needle
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-1 x Mirran Crusader
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
-1 x Plains
Storm
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-3 x Flickerwisp
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Plains
Grixis Delver
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+2 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
Shardless BUG
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-1 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
-1 x Flagstones of Trokair
RG Lands
+2 x Cataclysm
+2 x Pithing Needle
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
4C AggroLoam
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
Sneak & Show
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
UG Infect
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
------------------------------
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-4 x Flickerwisp
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Batterskull
Burn
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 x Karakas
Reanimator
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-2 x Stoneforge Mystic
-4 x Flickerwisp
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
Jund
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Flagstones of Trokair
RUG Delver
+1 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
MUD
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Cataclysm
+2 x Pithing Needle
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Mother of Runes
-2 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
Eldrazi Stompy
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Mother of Runes
-2 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
Merfolks
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
Death & Taxes
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
BUG Delver
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
Elves
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Flickerwisp
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Batterskull
U/W/R Stoneblade
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
Deathblade
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Plains
-
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koke_MTG
Here you have some tips about how I board against some of the most common archetypes with this list. Questions or advices from anyone would be appreciated.
U/W/R Miracles
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Cataclysm
+2 x Pithing Needle
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-1 x Mirran Crusader
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
-1 x Plains
Storm
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-3 x Flickerwisp
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Plains
Grixis Delver
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+2 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
Shardless BUG
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-1 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
-1 x Flagstones of Trokair
RG Lands
+2 x Cataclysm
+2 x Pithing Needle
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
4C AggroLoam
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
Sneak & Show
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
UG Infect
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
------------------------------
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-4 x Flickerwisp
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Batterskull
Burn
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 x Karakas
Reanimator
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-2 x Stoneforge Mystic
-4 x Flickerwisp
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
Jund
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Flagstones of Trokair
RUG Delver
+1 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
MUD
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Cataclysm
+2 x Pithing Needle
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Mother of Runes
-2 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
Eldrazi Stompy
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Mother of Runes
-2 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
Merfolks
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
Death & Taxes
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
BUG Delver
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Phyrexian Revoker
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
Elves
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Flickerwisp
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-1 x Batterskull
U/W/R Stoneblade
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
Deathblade
+2 x Council’s Judgment
+2 x Pithing Needle
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+1 x Sword of War and Peace
------------------------------
-4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Plains
Thanks, one question why 3 karakas main deck? 1 or 2 karakas main deck is not good?
-
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koke_MTG
Storm
+2 x Pithing Needle?
+2 x Mirran Crusader
+3 x Ethersworn Canonist
+3 x Rest in Peace
------------------------------
-3 x Flickerwisp
-2 x Mangara of Corondor
-4 x Swords to Plowshares
-1 x Plains
Why bring in needle vs Storm?
-
Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caprino
Thanks, one question why 3 karakas main deck? 1 or 2 karakas main deck is not good?
No, 3 is good. Both 1 and 2 is too few.
*You want them for your own Thalia, Your own Mangaara. Opponents Griselbrands. You basically always want a karakas, and you don't really draw any cards, hence the three copies.
