[Deck] Zoo

Yo
Back from vacations, and after banning by the moderators (i uded to be bulaxas...), here is my most recent report...

I've played zoo in a local tournment with 33 dudes, here's the list:

// Lands
2 [A] Taiga
2 [A] Plateau
1 [A] Savannah
1 [B] Forest
1 [B] Mountain
1 [B] Plains
2 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
2 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl
3 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch

// Spells
4 [A] Lightning Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
2 [LG] Sylvan Library
4 [CFX] Path to Exile
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 2 [A] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity

Round 1 (lands) 0-2

I just watched he playing both games, most hilarious start for him turn 1 tropical + exploration + tabernacle...(both games)

Round 2 (Madness) 2-0

Game 1 i drop hierarch on turn 1, then 3 dudes on turn 2 he cant keep up...
Game 2, i played grim turn 1, he playes mongrel turn 2, in my turn i chain it, he discards double rootwala, i bolt is mongrell then grim deals with rootwalas, he plays survival i grip it... pretty insane draws i had...

Round 3 (Solidarity) 2-1

This round i was playing a bad matchup and teammate, so i know exacly what to do, i win the dice and deal lethal at 4th turn...
Second game i have a lot of hate for his deck but no pressure with creatures he ended up killing me, game 3 i open double nacatl and double trap and win at 4th turn...

Round 4 (Rock) 2-0

I just played creatures while he was trying clean my hand with tourachs...game 2, basically the same except for only having grims in the board and he was holding a persh...LOL

Round 5 (Dreadstill) 2-1

Game 1, i played noble and nacatl and leave him to 1 life, but hi was mana screwd, and he plays dreadnought, i miss played by not playing goyf, and lost... Game 2 i wasnt a single bit agressive but a goyf managed to deal 12 damange and another 5 by qasali pridemage, leaving him to 3, i asked him if he had 4 counterspells cause i had a mix of four chain/bolt in hand...game 3 he plays dreadnought at second i only had a noble in play...i topdecked qasali, he had no force, and i keep beating him with a later knight of the reliquary...

Thoughts:

I really liked wasteland, even against lands if had drawn one i would win the match but cutting a fetch or a canopy for it seems risky... i pack a lot anti combo SB, here in portugal theres a lot of people paying with it (ANT, DD hybrids, Solidarity) so i realy felt i needed them...
Hierarchs are just insane, after playing zoo with them, i cant understand why ape/lynx were options... they were just better everytime... ill probably play the 4th knight... ill test swords instead of paths but for now i fell happy with them...

Well i ended up in 4th place, my bro ended in 5th with DD-ANT, hope you enjoyed report, this weekend i'll play again and ill give the report next week...

Cya

I think most of us are drifting towards the same list (big zoo shell that troopatroop has been championing) due to the post mystical banning meta. @ above poster, I play almost the same list except I have a preference for non basics and more fetches (Even without lynx, fetches + reliquary and grims are still very good). I also play -1 chain, -1 pridemage, + 1 wasteland + 1 Knight. Congrats on your finish! I think big zoo's strengths over traditional zoo are:

1. Aggro mirror (zoo, gobbos)
2. Bant aggro
3. New-horizon esc decks
4. Countertop
5. Mid range decks like the rock

IMO, anything with dudes is a better MU.

Worse MUs:

1. Storm combo, even with sligh zoo storm is hard.
2. Reanimator (big zoo kills slower)
3. Lands (no price of progress + fast beats before mazes and tabernacle land)
4. Landstill (can't sneak that game ending price of progress in before he stabilizes)

It seems like the bad matchups get worse and the good matchups get better, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Big zoo is more of a surgical knife than a blunt machete (how ironic). My 2 cents. Feel free to criticize/dissect my observations.

I'm planing on attending the Starcity 5k this weekend and it looks like i'm jumping on the band waggon of "big zoo". As an long time player fo "fast zoo", why would big zoo not want to run atleast 1 Ranger of Eaos? It seems great with hierarch to power it out early and grab two nactals at worst. Has this been tested and proven bad? Also, I was thinking of trying Jouton Grunt (sorry for the bad spelling) in the board since Madness is really big in this area, si this too counter productive with both KOTR and Grim Lavamancer?

If you run Grunt int he board, you'd probably side out Mancer, and hold onto KOTR until Grunt goes bye bye. However, there's probably better hate out there. And as for running one RoE, I don't see why not. Maybe in place of 1 KotR.

You're probably right that there is a better answer than the grunt. Also, I haven't seen any copies of Sylvan Liibrary in any of the big zoo lists, that card seems to good not to play.

I'm thinking about putting vexing shusher in the board for the counter top decks, but my question is REB just better?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bombbonne

I'm thinking about putting vexing shusher in the board for the counter top decks, but my question is REB just better?

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REB can hit Show and Tell. Just saying.

Ranger of Eos is fine, I playtested him a bit. My main gripe with him is that he is a 4drop that doesn't do anything NOW. Yes the two Wild Nacatls he finds are a BEATING in two turns, and would definitely help against Landstill or something. What Ranger helps you do is rebuild after board sweep, which can be very strong for a deck like this. I would need to test him more in the Big Zoo shell, but he doesn't seem bad. I just don't really see room for him maindeck, I think Elspeth is the superior 4drop. Possibly a few in the board for Control matches?

REB is better than Vexing Shusher imo. It is much more versatile, and Kills Jace the Mindsculptor like nothing else.

Good point....here is my list I plan on playing this sunday. Sideboard is not solid yet but its what i'm working with now.

4 Windswept Heath
4 Woodedfoothills
2 Arid mesa
4 wasteland
1 horizon canopy
2 tiaga
2 plataue
1 savahna
1 forest
1 mountain
1 plains

4 goyf
4 Q Pridemage
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatal
1 Ranger of Eaos
3 KOTR

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain lightning
2 Slyvan Library
2 elspeth
4 PTE

SB
3 Leyline of Sanctaty
2 Krosen grip
4 Faiere Macoob
3 Mind Break Trap
3 REB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bombbonne

I'm thinking about putting vexing shusher in the board for the counter top decks, but my question is REB just better?

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I don't play Shusher anymore in the board as whenever anyone casts a force of will you should be happy, and Pridemage and Krosan Grip are already great answers for Counterbalance. REB isn't really any better for counterbalance because if you get it after they play counterbalance or if they play it while you are tapped out it's going to be pretty hard to kill that Counterbalance with an REB

Ok fair enough, what would you recomend I put in it's place? I feel as though I have nothing for the mirror or other creature decks like goblins. I've thought about something like lightning helix in the board for those MU's.

Yeah but when you have the REB already, it's going to eat a Force or that CB, assuming they didn't board the FoW out. Replace it with REB/Pyroblast. I doubt you'll regret it. It's also spot removal for blue decks, where shusher is a mana sucking bear. And then you get to run up against Painter/Stone and REB their REB :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bombbonne

Ok fair enough, what would you recomend I put in it's place? I feel as though I have nothing for the mirror or other creature decks like goblins. I've thought about something like lightning helix in the board for those MU's.

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Just use Krosan Grip.

Triggered abilities can still go on the stack after splitsecond. But the 3cc is harder to counter. REB/Grip as a 3 off in the sideboard will serve anyone well. The fore is much more of a proactive card, where the latter is narrow hate. To view them in another way could lead one to making misplays or mistakes in sideboarding (as I have done in the past)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bombbonne

Ok fair enough, what would you recomend I put in it's place? I feel as though I have nothing for the mirror or other creature decks like goblins. I've thought about something like lightning helix in the board for those MU's.

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I've been putting 2 swords in the sideboard for creature matchups, it really gives you the edge in the mirror to control the board position. but you already have a good match up against goblins anyway with 4 paths and bolts/helix/chain as very effective removal against all their dudes. I like Helix in the main anyway, it has great synergy with Library and helps with the mirror, goblins and burn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justjake54

I've been putting 2 swords in the sideboard for creature matchups, it really gives you the edge in the mirror to control the board position. but you already have a good match up against goblins anyway with 4 paths and bolts/helix/chain as very effective removal against all their dudes. I like Helix in the main anyway, it has great synergy with Library and helps with the mirror, goblins and burn.

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And sometimes its better to have STP than Path. I wouldn't want to give Merfolk another land but dont mind giving them 2 or 3 life.

Sup guys,

Since I've started playing Legacy, Zoo became easily my petdeck. After some succes at the beginning with tradiitional Zoo, my results in the last weeks got a bit worse. I was unhappy with Ape / Lion and decided to give Steppe Lynx a try. Well, it was a desaster. It rarely made more damage then Ape, but forced me to mulligan more hands ( like, this 1 land hand is a borderline keep - if it has Ape. But with Lynx... *sigh* ) and was just horrible in creature Matchups.

I was a bit sceptical about Big Zoo, but at the end, gave it a try. I always hated losing to Wasteland in this format, so I wanted to play them myself. The addition of Hierarch also looked decent against other decks with Wasteland.
I participated in a 16 man, 4 round event with the following list:

2 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

4 Chain Lightning
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

SB:
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt

Note: I've already tried the blue splash a few weeks ago, but found myself mulliganing out of events and rarely needed the Meddling Mages. Even if I did need them, my opponents never had trouble with him what disheartened me.

Round 1: Traditional Zoo

I mulled to 6 and kept 2 Wastes Forest Nacatl Path and Chain. I won the roll and play Nacatl, my opp follows with Taiga and Ape. A fetchland from the top helps me making my Nacatl bigger. I attacked and passed the turn, as I don't see a need to chain the Ape. Opp plays Plateau and Pridemage and attacks for 3. I draw Lavamancer, waste his green mana and play the Mancer. He in return kills it, but has no green mana now. I get another fetch and search for another dual, getting in with Nacatl and killing his Pridemage. He then kills my Nacatl and bashes with a 1/1 Ape. I don't see a reason to path his Ape as I think it will not matter. I get a goyf from the top, but decide against playing my Wasteland. A big mistake, since he just plays 2 Price of Progress and somehow Im dead now. Ugh, not good, I've thrown it away...
Game 2 and 3 are summed up fast - my draws are really good and his small crits die to my Bolts and Chains, while I draw a lot of Knights and Goyfs. G3 he even floods away. Phew, after throwing away g1 the story has a happy ending.

Round 2: Dredge

My opponent is a buddy, and I wonder he is dredging it up, since I'm used to him playing WB aggro or enchantress.
G1 he keeps a very loose hand to my slow draw of 2nd turn goyf 3rd turn knight. He is also a bit unlucky hitting not another dredger while I just waste his lands.
G2 I mull to 6 in a fine and fast hand, but with no hate except for lavamancer. He makes a few mistakes and I find a faery macabre in time, taking out his dredgers. Lavamancer and Wasteland keep him from doing anything relevant and I win.

Round 3: TES

Luckily I win the die roll and start with Turn 1 Nacatl. He goes of for 12 goblin tokens, but I just play a Pridemage and in Turn 3 Goyf and a 2nd Nacatl. Paired with some removal he can only bring me down to 2, then he has to chump while I waste his lands.
Game 2 I keep Canonist Pridemage and 5 lands. His start, once again is slow and Canonist disrupts him. Luckily he has no Deathmark in his wishboard, only Pyroclams. I waste his only red ressource and he is stuck for a few turns. Somehow I only draw into lands, but also a Gaddock. When he finally finds the red source I just follow up with Gaddock and Pridemage and beat him down in the following 3 turns.

Round 4: UGR control

Game 1 is pretty interesting. I have no 1 drop, but a turn 2 pridemage. My first Library gets forced, the 2nd one resolves but he has engineered explosives ( his only one in the main ). Ouch. Worst thing is, I have no creature but drew into useless paths. He assembles Countertop and my only hope is to get a Knight through. He brainstorms, shuffles and finally finds the firespout. The next turn I try an Elspeth, but he obv has also a Jace. With only a path in my hand left against his goyf, countertop and Jace I concedede.
Game 2 is less interesting, I keep a 4 land hand with Noble Mancer and Goyf. He handles my threats, assembles Countertop once again while I flood away. At some point he goes with Intuition for 2 Cyclelands and Loam and I just concede.


My matchups weren't that good, but a 3-1 against them was very satisfating. Wastelands helped a lot. My lost against control was a bit disappointing though.

Thanks for the report! Yeah, your combo matchups went really well! It seems like Wasteland was really great for you, and it's a shame you drew so poorly against UGR Counter-Top. My testing against Counter-Top has been primarily against Dreadstill, but I've been testing against it the past couple nights. Here is my Sideboard, which has been really solid for that matchup.

3 Silence
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Meddling Mage
2 Krosan Grip
2 Duergar Hedge Mage
3 Pyroblast

I side out 4 Chain Lightning, 4 Lightning Bolt, 3 Grim Lavamancer, for 2 Krosan Grip, 2 Duergar Hedge-Mage, 3 Pyroblast, and 4 Meddling Mage.
I find that without the burn spells clogging my hand, the only way I'm going to lose is if they assemble Counter-Top and I'm holding a bunch of Path's, or if they Manascrew me. Pre-board Dreadstill is 50/50 with us, but I've found it's about 60/40 to 65/35 Post board in our favor. All of our cards are just so good against them, and if they try to board in a bunch of answers they dilute their deck. You can really grind out control decks with tight patient play, and your threats are very hard to deal with. Congrats on doing well.

Hey troop, I like the blue splash for Meddling Mage too, but do you think having 2 blue duals is necessary? I feel like I want to cut the Volcanic Island and run a basic mountain or an extra Taiga there instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

Hey troop, I like the blue splash for Meddling Mage too, but do you think having 2 blue duals is necessary? I feel like I want to cut the Volcanic Island and run a basic mountain or an extra Taiga there instead.

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You're right that Tropical Island is better than Volcanic Island by a longshot, but how is a Mountain better than Volcanic? I can see wanting another Taiga over it, but if they waste your blue you might not ever get the color again. I cut Skarrg, the Rage Pits for a Fetchland, and the manabase has worked perfectly ever since. Also, sometimes it's even better to be able to fetch the Volcanic Island. A situation the other day involved me with only a Savannah and Fetchland in hand, with Meddling Mage/Creatures/and Burn. I played Savannah Nacatl, and next turn was able to fetch the Volcanic, play my Meddling Mage, and have mana for burn spells later. It has it's uses, mostly there to protect against Wasteland.

Srry for the double post, but I've got things to say, and fear I've derailed the thread. I've done alot more testing, and I must say that my faith in the blue splash has wavered. I still feel that Meddling Mage is very good, but Volcanic Island has started to really bother me. Tropical Island has always been fine, but Volcanic is nearly almost always awful. In a stretch of 6 or so games, I drew it in my opening 7, and it always severely hindered my ability to play the game, often losing me the game after Wastelands and Stifle (actual Legacy). Meddling Mage could be the greatest card ever, but mulliganing less will always be more important. I go back to the top 8 I made where I lost to Goblins with mana denial, and sat with Volcanic and Skarrg, the Rage Pits. Never again! Meddling Mage is such a fun card to play, and I had fun with it, but I can't support the splash anymore. This deck just depends on it's lands too much, and there shouldn't be one that you don't want to see. I played with two Trop instead, and it also ended up being problematic, I didn't have enough Red sources. In a combo heavy metagame I might still play it, but for now...

Big Zoo

4 Windsweapt Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland

4 Wild Nacatl
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
2 Elspeth

So that's where the deck is at for me. I'm playing with other good two drops in the board, like Gaddock Teeg and Tin Street Hooligan. I've been looking for SB options to strengthen the Merfolk and Goblins matchup. That might seem random, but it's more difficult when you have creatures you don't want to Pyroclasm away. It's a very simple list, but It's extremely consistent. I've been looking at the 4th Noble Hierarch and really considering it, but 3 has been a magic number so far.

Theoretical SB
2 Pithing Needle
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pyroblast
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Silence