[Deck] The Rock

atm I would run something like that:


\\ creatures (16)
1 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor

\\ Spells(13):
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Maelstrom Pulse

\\ good to have(10):
1 Batterskul
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mox Diamond

Lands(22):
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog


maybe go -1 SFM +1 Knight, only mabye. And yes I know these are 61 cards, but what to cut? It is maybe between SFM and Tracker or Bird.

Not sure about anything, especially the SB. Things to consider:

Choke, Teeg, Darkblast, Thalia, Surgical, Timely Reinforcments, Deed, Iok, Duress, Hymn, Diabolic Edict, Dismember, Engineered Plague, EEs, Ethersworn Canonist, Garruk Relentless, Enlightened Tutor Package....

edit: are humility and peacekeeper reasonable SB-cards and maybe also Elspeth?

@lavafrog
I see you don't run spot removals like vindicate or pulse. Are qasali's recursion (via stronghols) plus tracker enough?

@thorondor
I run elspeth on side, it is a great asset. I also run tutor package: conversion (auto-win vs burn) deed, plague, etc. Still missing the choke, tho :/

@frogg

On glissa: recursive EE, spellbombs, etc sounds nice. Plus she has first strike and deathtouch and I don't have to explain how good this is. If you find a way to make her work in this deck, let me know!

On liliana:
she recursively does what 2/3 of our deck does: discard and removal (the other 1/3 is throwing fat guys on the field). I'll test your suggestions, but in whatever case I'll probably keep running 2 of them

Humility is not the right way to go. All of our value creatures become dead. If you're looking for fatty hate, try Tariff, Ensnaring Bridge, Maze of Ith, Karakas, etc.

Pick up your Chokes, they're like $1 each! :)

-Matt

I saw an interesting match on the South Florida Legacy stream where the Maverick player used Tsunami against Stoneblade. For one extra mana, we can deal with their islands in play permanently instead of hoping that our choke will not get disenchanted. We can do 1 Choke and 1 Tsunami or is that one extra mana a killer in the sideboard?

@angels:
the point on playing choke is that it can be fetched by e. tutor. Risking a disenchat is not quite a problem - they'll have to search for it, with a crippled manabase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sughayyer

@angels:
the point on playing choke is that it can be fetched by e. tutor. Risking a disenchat is not quite a problem - they'll have to search for it, with a crippled manabase.

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If you look at majority of the rock decks here, they dont have an E. Tutor package. So it's really the luck of drawing it.

Edit:
Forgot to mention that revealing it with Bob makes you lose one more life.

So on monday i said i was going to my weekly tuesday legacy tournament and was going to run this list.
4 STP
4 BOb
4 KotR
2 Green sun
1 tarmogoyf
1 qasali
1 teeg ( miracle control is big now and recks us)
1 ooze
3 inquisition
2 thought seize
3 pulse
2 stoneforge
1 batterskull
1 jitte
1 library
2 top
3 mox diamond
24 land

I did run this list and with great success going 3-0-1 and coming in first.

Round 1 martyr control life gain?
This was one of the most annoying decks ive ever played. The first game took 30 min which both our life totals were in the 50's thanks to batterskull. Though I finally did get there. GAme 2 i couldnt draw a seconf land a after a mull to 6 and scooped p the cads to save time. Game 3 we ran out of time i was very pissed as i had a commanding lead in the game.

Round 2 Goblins
Game 1 was pretty simple i put down a first turn jitte then followed with a turn 2 knight it was gg after that
game 2 He went turn 1 lackey i didnt have the white for swords and got blown out it was pretty bad keep on my part
Game 3 I go turn 1 scaveging ooze through mox turn 2 knight which i ripped off the top and drop turn 3 jitte equip swing win

Round 3 u/r delver
This was my deck that i lent to a friend nd i knew it was a hard matchup
I turn 1 inquisiton take his draw source i think ponder? Then go turn 2 tarmogoyf which hits then i just kill his creatures and swing for quick beats till its over always fetching for basics since i know Pop is in the list.
Game 2 He has double delver and lavamanver and makes quick work of me with a few spell peirces to protect hsi guys
Game 3 is the same as game 1 except i land a quick knight then SFM for jitte and win

Round 4 Land tax stax
Game 1 He has ghost quarter, suppression field and chalice on 1. I land knight then GSZ for teeg and he cant armegeddon or wrath I eventually land batterskull and beat him down. During the game I also pulse his mox diamond since he is land light and it signifcantly slowed him down.
Game 2 He starts with chalice on 1. I start with land mox BOB and i know its going be a good game. Then I rip teeg off the confidant play it and continue with beats till its over.

So somethings I like and didnt like
Props
I love gaddock teeg in the main it helped me out of some holes and really pulled its weight. Maelstrom pulse was also amazing everytime I had it at one point the life gain player had out 3 serra ascedant and i did a 3 for 1, goodtimes.
On stoneforge I didnt really draw it all that much I really just always had the jitte in hand or raw drew it and was amzing for me all day.

Slops
To not mulling when I should have
To people playing life gain decks period

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sughayyer

@lavafrog
I see you don't run spot removals like vindicate or pulse. Are qasali's recursion (via stronghols) plus tracker enough?

@frogg

On glissa: recursive EE, spellbombs, etc sounds nice. Plus she has first strike and deathtouch and I don't have to explain how good this is. If you find a way to make her work in this deck, let me know!

On liliana:
she recursively does what 2/3 of our deck does: discard and removal (the other 1/3 is throwing fat guys on the field). I'll test

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One at a time.

Spot Removal: This deck usually has the biggest creatures on the board, barring another knight/something from aggro loam, so much of the decks creature control revolves around playing bigger men and crashing in. When creature control becomes an issue, that is where you can smartly use your discard and swords to plowshares to keep the board clear. This is also where the tracker or Lilliana have been helping out. If you can keep creature counts down in the early game then Lilliana can break any stalemates or creature strategies in the later turns.

Glissa: I have been looking for a solid reason to run black instead of just dark confidant, discard is not really a reason due to mavericks strong disruption suite, and Glissa might just be the card. I would have to alter my list to include a few artifacts main board (mostly EE) and the board control the 2 card interaction would provide seems like it would wreck most creature decks. With mox diamonds, EE can go all the way up to 4(or 5) and hit Jace/Elspeth. Right now it would be something like -1 tracker(sad face) -1 Lilliana -1 land -1 something +1 Glissa +3 EE. The deck gets very board control like at that point though. I probably need to find a better reason than EE to lay her as of right now.

Lilliana: Lilliana is dumb. I learned this when I was playing a very BGW Aggro Loam style list and the things I learned from that experience are in my Junk list. 4 dark confidants and the 1 life from the loam let you play her +1 all day long, with life from the loam having a huge role in the late game of this deck with the monastery and the stronghold playing the recursion game. Playing Lilliana as a sac a creature, discard a card, sac a creature in this format is killer due to the lack of real card advantage in most decks. She also gives combo decks one more layer of hate to fight through (point discard, Lilliana, plus teeg out of the board, wasteland if it matters) and she wrecks Reanimator by just being on the board (this makes sneak attack the deadlier card out of sneak and show slowing them down). She is really good.

One of my biggest issues with creature decks in Legacy just smashed me in the face, again.

Snapcaster Mage is a BEATING. They effectively run 8 StP. I got nailed to the wall.

What do we do about Snapcaster Mage? It seems bad, but I'm getting to the point where I may start bring in my Surgical Extractions, just for Mr Tiago Chan

Anyone else have this issue?

On UW Snapcaster mage: Have you tried a Sylvan Safekeeper as a 1 of GSZ target? You don't really need more than 2 lands to operate, depending on how your deck is set up, and he stops every iteration of swords. Between point discard, Ooze, Lilliana/Garruk and how ever many beaters we run, I have never had that great of a problem against Tiago. Usually Jace is the bigger problem.

I guess depending on your list you could use sword of light and shadow or thrunn the last troll(or the angry troll himself), also token generators are really good against Snapcaster Mage decks i.e. Lingering Souls, Bitterblossom, Sorin...

or super tech- Ground Seal!

Tonight was good and bad. As I got to the store, I was told I've won last month's legacy league, being awarded in $51 (in credits). But in the tournament I performed poorly... Got past reanimator and burn with no issues at all, but I lost to a goblins that simply didn't play lackey, instead he used chrome mox+chalice. Can't explain how disastrous it was. Against merfolk, wrecked his hand, killed his dudes, and never drew a threat. Agains bug it was pretty much the same. I need to fit gsz ASAP, I think it can fix the 'dead' draws....

If you are having consistency issues, I would get to a regular GSZ list as fast as you can. Sylvan Library might also be the most broken card out of green right now with all of the life gain effects you can run.

You are absolutely right. The main reason I don't play gsz is the fact that it's HARD to find. Tracker is a bit hard too. Until I get them, I'll experiment on changes with the things I have. Will keep posting results!

you need ONE sylvan library and TWO sensei's divining top, or even TWO sylvan library. I would say these cards win on their own, but actually they don't do anything to the opponent. :cool:

Seriously, you will love them.

Most recently, the best card choices I've made with this deck were going up to 2 Sylvan Library, 1 Tracker, and 1 Garruk Relentless.

Relentless allows a continues stream of creatures against Stoneblade, and lets you tutor up creatures as well. Scavenging Ooze helps alot against their Snapcasters if you get him on the table and they don't have the Swords in hand. Otherwise, keep tanking out threats if you can. Gaddock Teeg is pretty great in that matchup too, forcing them to remove Teeg before going into Wrath or Jace.

Ground seal could prove an interesting card, but it'd be VERY narrow.

@ Tsunami

The problem with Tsunami is that it costs 4, so if you're trying to gain value against a deck like RUG, you're never going to cast it. Tsunami also hits once, whereas Choke continually clogs their board. We're a slower deck, so I think you want Choke.

@ Sughayyer

Things can happen, I wouldn't worry. Sometimes you just don't draw well, like me against Infect. That's not even a real deck. My worst dual is more than his deck.


-Matt

so what about this list, still 61 cards and no Life from the Loam :-/


\\ creatures (15)
1 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor

\\ Spells(12):
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse

\\ good to have(12):
1 Garruk the Relentless
1 Batterskul
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mox Diamond

Lands(22):
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog

Cut a Bojuka Bog for a Bayou, cut birds of Paradise (since you've already got 3 Mox Diamonds, that's fine) for a Life from the Loam. Boom. Perfect.

-Matt

cutting bird for loam might be fine since we want tracker with zenith most of the time. But bojuka bog, sounds strong to me in theory, with loam you can replay it and it can also be good against snapcaster and opposing knight.

In some situation it can be really bad, I know. :rolleyes:

As an alternative to the library/top manipulation I use recursion in Loam/Stronghold. Same concept but slower/more powerful if not disrupted.