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I also think, we are getting something like "Mon's Goblin Chieftain" which will be the same as a Chieftain.
Anyway: My Tokencards are always the good old Playercards. There are some Pro's I don't like so its always nice to put them on the field and throw them into the battle.
I finally completed my set of wastelands this weekend and was able to do some testing in between rounds of Standard last night. I played three games against Dredge unboarded, going 2-1. I also played 3 unboarded games against counterbalance, also going 2-1. Both of these matchups seemed favorable (although CB would have been worse if he was running terminus.)
Against the control list, WInstigator performed great. He would have to force or swords my turn 1 lackey and then have nothing left to deal with an Instigator on turn 2. That card scares the sh*t out of people, which is awesome.
Is anyone playing Goblins in Atlanta this weekend? I wish I could make it, but a 10 hour drive just isn't hpossible with work on both friday and Monday.
I think Mon's, Goblin Overlord would be an awesomen name, but don't think it will happend...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2
Has anyone seen the video posted by Channelfireball earlier this month, top 8 goblins by Patrick Chapin? Well don't bother, its a big waste of time, but here was his list.
8. Siege Gang Commander
7. Globlin Piledriver
6. Goblin Flotilla
5. Goblin Warchief
4. Goblin Welder
3. Goblin Lackey
2. Goblin Recruiter
1. Goblin Wizard
:rolleyes:
the guy is trolling. recruiter is bannedQuote:
Originally Posted by mrblueduck
That's not relevant unless he's talking about Legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
ok i misunderstood, i thought he went top8 with those goblins. it meant to be a ranking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
well then its even more trolling lol. Goblin Flotilla, Goblin Wizard? What the hell is he smoking? Maybe thats the reason Japan didnt let him in. :laugh:
Those goblins have pretty unique abilities for red cards; Goblin Flotilla is the only red creature with islandwalk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodjt5
I'm seriously considering taking an audible to Goblins instead of Esper Stoneblade. I have no idea how you guys aren't crushing every single event you go to, because Goblins is trashing our gauntlet left and right. Then again, we also cut Tendrils and High Tide from our testing because they're just not as heavily represented these days.
What're you guys running for a manabase these days? Ours is 4 Cavern, 4 Port, 4 Wasteland, Fetches, a single Badlands, and Mountains. If that's not optimal, then I shudder to think of what a tuned manabase would do to us.
I run mono-red, and I've found that the basics are very important. I run 4 cavern, 4 waste, no fetches (not worth it if there is no second color...there's stats reflecting this in the thread somewhere), and anywhere between 0 and 3 ports depending on the day. 21 lands total, so that leaves 10-13 mountains, and I could definitely see going up to 22 lands if your list is especially mana hungry. Recently I've been stickign to 1 port, not because the ports are bad, but because the red sources and basics are so important.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregtron
Some people also run chrome mox to varying levels of effect, but I don't have them so I have no experience with that. I think Scatman X either is or was running them, so he might be able to chime in.
Also, I don't know what your list looks like, but I would suggest 2 stingscourgers main. We have 8 ways to make him uncounterable against Grislebrand decks, he's a great tempo swing in creature matchups, and he kills bridges by himself agaisnt dredge.
4x WastelandQuote:
Originally Posted by gregtron
4x Cavern
13x Mountain
Ports aren't really optimal right now, nor is the black splash. I've been putting up consistent results locally without the Caverns (I don't own any), but if I were headed to GP this weekend that's the mana base I would play.
whoa! are you for real? fetches are excellent, its basically like running a sub 60 count deck. I dunno maybe Im biased, but Id always run fetches.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodjt5
I am by no means a fetchlands-in-goblins expert, but this is my understanding of the trade-offs:Quote:
Originally Posted by csy
Pro:
1. thins the deck a non-zero amount, giving you less lands and more business to draw every turn, and makes your first ring leader more likely to hit goblins instead of lands.
2. Allows you to run multiple colors
Con:
1. Increases susceptibility to stifle.
2. Makes your *second* ringleader (and any you draw after that) worse by shuffling all the lands on the bottom back into your deck.
In my mind, the cons outweigh the benefits, especially in a mono-red build.
Fetches are awful in this deck if you don't need them for a splash. You're taking a non-zero amount of damage you don't otherwise have to take, opening your mana base up to Stifle, and potentially shuffling all of that useless stuff you just bottomed with Ringleader back into your deck. Plus, cards like Aven Mindcensor see fringe play, so limiting the usefulness of those against us is an occasional benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by csy
The "deck thinning" argument has been proven false elsewhere.
I ran the numbers on this a while ago. The results where that fetching 0-3 times doesn't statistically affect the number of goblins you're going to hit on a Ringleader. Fetching 0-3 times means you're most likely to draw 2 or fewer goblins. You need to fetch a full 4 times before you're more likely to draw 3 or 4 goblins. Basically, you're spending 4 life to statistically draw 1 more card. So running fetches without a splash is just like getting a really bad Sylvan Library effect when you Ringleader. I used to run fetches in a mono-R build, but after crunching the numbers I stopped and haven't regretted it at all since.Quote:
Originally Posted by csy
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblueduck
This guy plays with fishes(seems to like blue and stupid) , or smokes hard. Lackey first man, maybe a matron and ring on the list. Wizard?da fuq!
LOL yes. Here would be my actual list. Not including Recruiter or Welder for obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by akabidu
8. Mogg War-Marshall
7. Gempalm Incinerator
6. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5. Goblin Chieftain
4. Goblin Ringleader
3. Warren Instigator
2. Goblin Matron
1. Goblin Lackey
I can see arguing to add Warchief, (which would directly effect the value of Instigator), but I can see no reason Piledriver should be considered anything but mediocre. This isnt 2004.
I haven't seen the video but I don't think it's a top 10 for Goblins in a Goblins deck. Goblin Guide should really be in any top 10. It's one of the best red creatures ever printed, and it's a Goblin!
If that's so, then Squee, Goblin Nabob is worth a mention.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReinVos
I played the Rg Goblin list that won Indianapolis at my local tourney last night (but I played my own sideboard for my meta). I was not a fan. The list didn't do terribly, but I found it to be a little light on removal and had too many dead cards. Port didn't do too much for me, tin street was a blank. I found myself drawing too many Lands and wanting to Matron for Fanatic or Tarfire on occasion.
It was fun to have Rishadan Port and Fetches again, but Port didn't do anything and I never needed to fetch G mana.
R1 UR Delver
G1 He hit a few too many lands and I easily overwhelmed him.
G2 I couldn't establish a board position. Needed Tarfire/Fanatic to kill Lavamancer/Delver.
G3 I mull to 5 looking for a keepable hand. My Lackey gets bolted and when I Pyrokinesis his Delver he plays 2 more creatures the next turn. Again, Tarfire/Fanatic would have been very helpful here. I also managed to draw 7 lands and 8 non-lands this game.
Port was useless in this MU. As was the green splash. I probably would have had more luck if I'd gotten more Vial openers, but whatllyado? You gotta play the cards you draw.
R2 Reanimator
G1 I'm on the draw. I land a T1 Lackey. He starts T2 with a Griselbrand. That'll keep a Lackey from getting through (you can't even attack into that guy!). L
G2 I mull to a hand with Leyline and Stingscourger. Show and Tell bounces an Iona. W
G3 My starting 7 has like 5 lands. The 6 has no hate and is slow. The five was something like Mountain, 3x Lackey, MWM. I showed him the hand before mulling to 4. The 4 had Leyline, Relic, Pyroblast, and MWM. No land, but a Leyline and hate, so I kept. When he Show and Told I was able to put a Matron into play that died to an Elesh Norn right before tutoring up a Stingscourger. I then held the Stingscourger in hand politely while I waited for either a third land so I could Pryoblast and Stingscourger or draw into a Cavern. I took a few hits and the Stingker got Thoughtseized anyway.
After the match my opponent was trying to convince me that I should have kept the 3 Lackey hand and just hoped to topdeck into something. I adamantly believe I was right to ship the Lackey hand back. 3 Lackeys and a MWM don't do anything against his deck. They are slower than any line of play he'll go for and they don't slow down his plans at all.
Overall, I don't think I'll be adopting a 4 Port, 4 MWM build any time soon. MWM continues to underwhelm. I think Winstigator can have a much larger effect on the game. It dissuades opponents from attacking rather than chump blocking. Since Port isn't having that big of an effect on the game there's no reason not to cut it for more red sources, which make playing cards like WIn and Cheiftain more attractive. And playing without Ports allows you to simultaneously strengthen your manabase and up your goblin count.