[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Have you guys tried omitting the lightning greaves for other cards?

I have tried playing without the greaves, and a lot of the time I dont really miss them, or am glad my hand doesnt have 1 of them and has some other card instead. For me it has always seemed too clunky in that it requires other things going well for it to work properly, and when they can interact 1 for 1 with your 'important' spells whilst keeping a fast clock on you it can be lights out before you can draw out of it. Losing a forgemaster in response to the equip is brutal, and they will still kill your forgemaster with the swords to plowshares or whatever anyways, so is it even worth the extra card that doesnt actually do anything by itself? I only see people running the miser or MAYBE 2 of them, so is it even worth it at all; other than the corner cases of completely uncontested 'magical christmas land' 2nd or 3rd turn kills?

Could this card be better relegated to the SB where it can hold its own against the combo matchups instead of taking a mainboard slot that would be better dedicated towards a blind field of 'fair' decks?

for example: swap of 1 greaves for 1 spellskite helps against instant speed removal, and protects key cards.

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Originally Posted by sun tzu

Have you guys tried omitting the lightning greaves for other cards?

I have tried playing without the greaves, and a lot of the time I dont really miss them, or am glad my hand doesnt have 1 of them and has some other card instead. For me it has always seemed too clunky in that it requires other things going well for it to work properly, and when they can interact 1 for 1 with your 'important' spells whilst keeping a fast clock on you it can be lights out before you can draw out of it. Losing a forgemaster in response to the equip is brutal, and they will still kill your forgemaster with the swords to plowshares or whatever anyways, so is it even worth the extra card that doesnt actually do anything by itself? I only see people running the miser or MAYBE 2 of them, so is it even worth it at all; other than the corner cases of completely uncontested 'magical christmas land' 2nd or 3rd turn kills?

Could this card be better relegated to the SB where it can hold its own against the combo matchups instead of taking a mainboard slot that would be better dedicated towards a blind field of 'fair' decks?

for example: swap of 1 greaves for 1 spellskite helps against instant speed removal, and protects key cards.

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Tbh, seeing the swift in playstyle of MUD with the coming of Cloudpost and Ugin i can see Lightning Greaves being replaced. But it depends on your goal/orientation. If you wanna stall/control the game until Ugin can take it over then drop Greaves. If you want explosiveness and quick combo finishes, then keep Greaves as a 2/3 off. On the other hand, Greaves provides various utility, not only in protection but sometimes being able to attack 1 turn earlier can be the difference between winning or losing. The same counts for protecting ie Platinum Emperion/Angel. Players tend to underestimate Lightning Greaves in this deck.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Tbh, seeing the swift in playstyle of MUD with the coming of Cloudpost and Ugin i can see Lightning Greaves being replaced. But it depends on your goal/orientation. If you wanna stall/control the game until Ugin can take it over then drop Greaves. If you want explosiveness and quick combo finishes, then keep Greaves as a 2/3 off. On the other hand, Greaves provides various utility, not only in protection but sometimes being able to attack 1 turn earlier can be the difference between winning or losing. The same counts for protecting ie Platinum Emperion/Angel. Players tend to underestimate Lightning Greaves in this deck.

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Personally, I'm a fan of Greaves and play 2. They make killing walkers much easier. In some matchups, Greaves feels like a time walk. Going T1 boots, T2 Lodestone is pretty brutal in many matchups. Boots into metalworker feels like cheating as well.

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Hi everyone,

I played at the Eternal Weekend this weekend and had a blast. I went 6-0-1 (ID to Top 8) and lost to Mentor Miracles. At the Legacy Champs, I went 3-0 before losing to Lands three times in a row, so I dropped with a 3-3 record.

Here is my list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-08...l-metalworker/

Wins:
Burn x2; Ponder Miracles; 4c Loam from Lille; OmniTell; TES; Painter; Elves; DnT

Losses:
Mentor Miracles; Lands x3

Some highlights:
Against Painter: T1, I played Cavern of Souls on Construct and played Voltaic Key. Turn 2, I played City of Traitors and Metalworker. Turn 3, tap Metalworker revealing five artifacts, untap with key, and tap again for 19 mana. Played Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Golem, Steel Hellkite.
Against Painter (again): He had a painter out and I cast Ugin for -0.
Against Elves: My opponent comboed off Turn 2. Fortunately, I had Lightning Greaves T1. T2 Metalworker, reveal 4 artifacts, cast Ugin, -2
Against OmniTell: He cast Probe and SnT into Emrakul T1 and I dropped Lightning Greaves. Played City of Traitors -> Grim Monolith -> Phyrexian Metamorph (top deck)
Against OmniTell (again): Grim Monolith + Voltaic Key got me Lodestone Golem T1, followed by a T2 Thorn of Amethyst, Followed by T3 Chalice @3.
I got to Ultimate Ugin twice, and won both immediately.
I won with Blightsteel Colossus 9x. Once by T2 and twice by T3. Got to hardcast Blightsteel vs. Burn with the help from Grim Monolith, Voltaic Key x2, and Thran Dynamo.

I am really thinking about replacing my 4 Revokers for Pithing Needles again Loam.dec, while still having utility against Miracles, DnT, etc, even if it does conflict with Chalice a bit. Maybe I am just approaching this match-up wrong.

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Originally Posted by L10

Hi everyone,

I played at the Eternal Weekend this weekend and had a blast. I went 6-0-1 (ID to Top 8) and lost to Mentor Miracles. At the Legacy Champs, I went 3-0 before losing to Lands three times in a row, so I dropped with a 3-3 record.

Here is my list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-08...l-metalworker/

Wins:
Burn x2; Ponder Miracles; 4c Loam from Lille; OmniTell; TES; Painter; Elves; DnT

Losses:
Mentor Miracles; Lands x3

Some highlights:
Against Painter: T1, I played Cavern of Souls on Construct and played Voltaic Key. Turn 2, I played City of Traitors and Metalworker. Turn 3, tap Metalworker revealing five artifacts, untap with key, and tap again for 19 mana. Played Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Golem, Steel Hellkite.
Against Painter (again): He had a painter out and I cast Ugin for -0.
Against Elves: My opponent comboed off Turn 2. Fortunately, I had Lightning Greaves T1. T2 Metalworker, reveal 4 artifacts, cast Ugin, -2
Against OmniTell: He cast Probe and SnT into Emrakul T1 and I dropped Lightning Greaves. Played City of Traitors -> Grim Monolith -> Phyrexian Metamorph (top deck)
Against OmniTell (again): Grim Monolith + Voltaic Key got me Lodestone Golem T1, followed by a T2 Thorn of Amethyst, Followed by T3 Chalice @3.
I got to Ultimate Ugin twice, and won both immediately.
I won with Blightsteel Colossus 9x. Once by T2 and twice by T3. Got to hardcast Blightsteel vs. Burn with the help from Grim Monolith, Voltaic Key x2, and Thran Dynamo.

I am really thinking about replacing my 4 Revokers for Pithing Needles again Loam.dec, while still having utility against Miracles, DnT, etc, even if it does conflict with Chalice a bit. Maybe I am just approaching this match-up wrong.

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Those were some epic highlights. Perhaps you may want to side Ugin out for Karn against lands in addition to the Needles. Any other ways to beat lands?

Ugin actually helped me win a match against Lands b/c I kept Bolting to his face while he tried his best to punishing fire his way through to keep me from ultimate. Ugin is also a good win-con through Tabernacle under a Wasteland lock. The problem of course with both Karn and Ugin is that they don't contribute to Metalworker when helping them cast. I will need to play test Karn some more. I haven't played with his since I picked up Ugin, tbh.

I forgot another highlight. Against DnT, I had 2 Factories and a Voltaic Key. My opponent bashed in with a Batterskull only to get beaten up by a 5/5 Factory. He didn't know that was a thing.

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Originally Posted by L10

Hi everyone,

I played at the Eternal Weekend this weekend and had a blast. I went 6-0-1 (ID to Top 8) and lost to Mentor Miracles. At the Legacy Champs, I went 3-0 before losing to Lands three times in a row, so I dropped with a 3-3 record.

Here is my list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-08...l-metalworker/

Wins:
Burn x2; Ponder Miracles; 4c Loam from Lille; OmniTell; TES; Painter; Elves; DnT

Losses:
Mentor Miracles; Lands x3

Some highlights:
Against Painter: T1, I played Cavern of Souls on Construct and played Voltaic Key. Turn 2, I played City of Traitors and Metalworker. Turn 3, tap Metalworker revealing five artifacts, untap with key, and tap again for 19 mana. Played Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Golem, Steel Hellkite.
Against Painter (again): He had a painter out and I cast Ugin for -0.
Against Elves: My opponent comboed off Turn 2. Fortunately, I had Lightning Greaves T1. T2 Metalworker, reveal 4 artifacts, cast Ugin, -2
Against OmniTell: He cast Probe and SnT into Emrakul T1 and I dropped Lightning Greaves. Played City of Traitors -> Grim Monolith -> Phyrexian Metamorph (top deck)
Against OmniTell (again): Grim Monolith + Voltaic Key got me Lodestone Golem T1, followed by a T2 Thorn of Amethyst, Followed by T3 Chalice @3.
I got to Ultimate Ugin twice, and won both immediately.
I won with Blightsteel Colossus 9x. Once by T2 and twice by T3. Got to hardcast Blightsteel vs. Burn with the help from Grim Monolith, Voltaic Key x2, and Thran Dynamo.

I am really thinking about replacing my 4 Revokers for Pithing Needles again Loam.dec, while still having utility against Miracles, DnT, etc, even if it does conflict with Chalice a bit. Maybe I am just approaching this match-up wrong.

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I really like your list. It seems like alot of fun. Cloud post package does make the deck slower and more susceptible to wasteland, so maybe it is time to change a bit to adapt to a faster format with all the combo and faster aggro, or maybe it's time to go back to the red splash for welder, or maybe a new beast that just abuses ugin. Also, you're experience seems to show the true power of lightning greaves.

I've had very good luck against rg lands using the strategy of going for the chalice on 2 instead of the 1. Also, I split the needle effects with 2 needle and 2 revoker. Also, running the 4 wastelands is fantastic to hold them off of the 20/20 beats.

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Originally Posted by BlackHawkX9

maybe it's time to go back to the red splash for welder

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I'm hoping there will be some really nice 2-color eldrazi with Devoid made for MUD. One that interacts with colorless creatures in a nice way (besides the haste one spoiled).

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Originally Posted by bruizar

I'm hoping there will be some really nice 2-color eldrazi with Devoid made for MUD. One that interacts with colorless creatures in a nice way (besides the haste one spoiled).

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This or something along the lines of Lodestone Golem

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

This or something along the lines of Lodestone Golem

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Color Sphere Bear
RB
Devoid
Colored creature spells cost 1 more to play
2/2


Oh yes :-)

How do you guys sideboard against Death n Taxes? How favorable is this matchup for MUD, exactly?

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Originally Posted by MGB

How do you guys sideboard against Death n Taxes? How favorable is this matchup for MUD, exactly?

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DnT is a weird match up. Its about 50/50. Revoker, ratchet bomb, staff of nin all help, but there isn't a one true bomb that shuts down DnT.

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I really like your list. It seems like alot of fun. Cloud post package does make the deck slower and more susceptible to wasteland, so maybe it is time to change a bit to adapt to a faster format with all the combo and faster aggro, or maybe it's time to go back to the red splash for welder, or maybe a new beast that just abuses ugin. Also, you're experience seems to show the true power of lightning greaves.

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Thanks! Lightning Greaves and Voltaic Key are definitely the MVP over the weekend. I think their power level are the same as Chalice, which is why Voltaic Key warrant two slots for me. Voltaic Key+Ratchet Bomb lets me kill Lili in two turns, for example. Or allowing my to use Forgemaster twice in the same turn to find the right kill combination. My approach for this build was a very aggressive/proactive and combo mindset, and Lightning Greaves helps facilitate that. I went with a 2/2 split between Steel Hellkite and Wurmcoil Engine because a Steel Hellkite with haste is way scarier. Because I wanted to be more aggressive/proactive approach, I decided to not run Angel or Emperion in my main, since both cards are inherently defensive. I went for 4 Mishra's Factory and a Darksteel Citadel so I can use Forgemaster a few turns earlier. I can also show off my four season factories. :) As far as my list goes:

Land (21)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
1x Darksteel Citadel
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Wasteland

Creature (18)
1x Blightsteel Colossus
4x Kuldotha Forgemaster
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Metalworker
2x Steel Hellkite
1x Sundering Titan
2x Wurmcoil Engine

Planeswalker (2)
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Artifact (15)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Grim Monolith
3x Lightning Greaves
2x Trinisphere
2x Voltaic Key

Flex (4)

Still tinkering with the last 4 slots. I think having 21 lands may be a bit greedy, so I may want two Darksteel Citadels.

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I've had very good luck against rg lands using the strategy of going for the chalice on 2 instead of the 1. Also, I split the needle effects with 2 needle and 2 revoker. Also, running the 4 wastelands is fantastic to hold them off of the 20/20 beats.

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I know that Chalice on 2 is nuts, but should I sandbag my Chalice if I can T1 on play? It shuts off Crop Rotation/Gamble/Manabond/Exploration. But yeah, the Loam Engine is what I am not afraid of. I will try the 2/2 split on Needle and Revoker. Thanks!

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maybe it's time to go back to the red splash for welder

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I used Fry's list with some success: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post876218
Truth be told, that's way too many one-offs for my blood, but Fry loves his toys.
I am tinkering a Welder / Daretti list at the moment, but I haven't came up with solid core yet, or a way to abuse the engine. I am thinking something in the lines of Stax.

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or maybe a new beast that just abuses ugin

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How so?

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How do you guys sideboard against Death n Taxes? How favorable is this matchup for MUD, exactly?

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With my list, I'd go:
-2 Trinisphere (because it can bite us)
-1 Phyrexian Metamorph
-1 Sundering Titan
+3 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Platinum Emperion
On draw, I'd go one step further:
-4 Chalice of the Void
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+3 Ratchet Bomb

If I have an active Chalice, I usually just fetch Blightsteel for the win unless I suspect Whisp shenanigans. Otherwise, I usually go for Staff on Nin and beat them with inevitability. Revoker on Metalworker can be brutal, Thran Dynamo or Grim Monolist + Key is usually enough for me to cast my threats. I think the first three or four turns usually determines the outcome, since we both play a tax game. It is a matter of who get's under our disruptions first.

Also, if I go to a known meta with a lot of DnT, I'd have Grim Poppet in my SB. It kills all their bears and they probably can't handle a 7/7.

Edit: Oh, never mind. Grim Poppet is only a 4/4. My bad. I remembered the card wrong.

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Originally Posted by L10

Thanks! Lightning Greaves and Voltaic Key are definitely the MVP over the weekend. I think their power level are the same as Chalice, which is why Voltaic Key warrant two slots for me. Voltaic Key+Ratchet Bomb lets me kill Lili in two turns, for example. Or allowing my to use Forgemaster twice in the same turn to find the right kill combination. My approach for this build was a very aggressive/proactive and combo mindset, and Lightning Greaves helps facilitate that. I went with a 2/2 split between Steel Hellkite and Wurmcoil Engine because a Steel Hellkite with haste is way scarier. Because I wanted to be more aggressive/proactive approach, I decided to not run Angel or Emperion in my main, since both cards are inherently defensive. I went for 4 Mishra's Factory and a Darksteel Citadel so I can use Forgemaster a few turns earlier. I can also show off my four season factories. :) As far as my list goes:

Land (21)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
1x Darksteel Citadel
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Wasteland

Creature (18)
1x Blightsteel Colossus
4x Kuldotha Forgemaster
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Metalworker
2x Steel Hellkite
1x Sundering Titan
2x Wurmcoil Engine

Planeswalker (2)
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Artifact (15)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Grim Monolith
3x Lightning Greaves
2x Trinisphere
2x Voltaic Key

Flex (4)

Still tinkering with the last 4 slots. I think having 21 lands may be a bit greedy, so I may want two Darksteel Citadels.


I know that Chalice on 2 is nuts, but should I sandbag my Chalice if I can T1 on play? It shuts off Crop Rotation/Gamble/Manabond/Exploration. But yeah, the Loam Engine is what I am not afraid of. I will try the 2/2 split on Needle and Revoker. Thanks!

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I like the concept of voltaic key, but i could never bring myself to run it side by side with the chalice since we put it on 1 so often, unless i have a welder to recur it. Also, it conflicts with lightning greaves if you don't have a second creature to move the boots around.

21 lands feels super greedy, i don't think i could get behind running any less than 22 at the bare minimum. Maybe even consider a buried ruin since you have the main deck crucible.

Absolutely, sand bag the chalice if you have a wasteland. If no wasteland, than toss it out on 1 and hope for the best. Yes, chalice on 1 stops them from doing all those, except crop rotate, but if they can't loam, then you don't care about them having any of those. My best line of play vs RG lands has been T1. Wasteland, Needle (stage), T2. soul land, monolith, chalice 2. . . If you have a wasteland, you can mexican stand off with their depths combo easily, and with chalice on 2, they just draw 1 card each turn like the rest of us, and do very little with it. And then after you land chalice for 2 (in games 2 or 3) you go chalice on 3 for the Krosan grip that they board for counter balance that they dual purpose for you also, and then they flounder around so bad, you can even kill them with metalworker beats if you have to.

A new breed of MUD that could possibly abuse Ugin better could be something like this, http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9593&d=255104 . He plays it very stax like with a more aggressive twist.

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I like the concept of voltaic key, but i could never bring myself to run it side by side with the chalice since we put it on 1 so often, unless i have a welder to recur it. Also, it conflicts with lightning greaves if you don't have a second creature to move the boots around.

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My thinking is if I have Chalice @1, I am probably winning. Otherwise, I'd rather have key. But yeah, it can be awkward, which is why I am only playing with two copies, which I think is the right balance. I think it's power level justifies playing it though. And to be honest, I can't remember the last time I had the Lightning Greaves conflict issue. Playing with Factories helps to facilitate this problem. I also like having Key to untap Grim Monoliths, or to pump Factories, and other shenanigans. It is just a versatile card.

Thanks for the feedback vs. Lands. Everything you said is logical and sound. I just need to put it in practice. But yeah, my approach vs. Lands was definitely wrong.

@Takei Masaya's list
I think it is really interesting list. I really like the idea of playing a Stax-like deck again. The only thing that is literally stopping me to play testing that list are the three Candelabra of Tawnos.

I think its more of a mashup between MUD and 12post. Darn those candelabras though...they are prohibitive :(

I'm going to get a lot of haters for saying this

Glasses of Urza

Dig Through Time has got you countered too many times? Want to sequence better? Is 1 mana in a grindy game with Chalice of The Void in the same deck worth paying to sequence all your spells the best you can?

I'm slotting one of these even if it costs 1 I don't care.

If there was a better option I'd play it .

OH, but the pay mana to activate on this one is brutal

Scrying Glass - 2

Artifact

3, Tap: Choose a number greater than 0 and a color. Target opponent reveals his or her hand. If that opponent reveals exactly the chosen number of cards of the chosen color, you draw a card.

...

I'm interested in any other cards like this.. like Wand Of Ith ,

So question:

I've noticed that everyone in Vintage is playing Hangarback Walkers as a 3-of or even 4-of in their Workshop builds. Is Walker something that needs to be played in the Legacy version of this deck as well, or is Walker a Vintage-specific metagame thing?

Hangarback Walker is specifically played in Workshop because they can cast it for any XX combination. They play with a lot of resistors, and sometimes that results them having their threat stuck in their hand. With Hangarback Walker, that is not a problem, because it can be as big or as small as it wants to be. If Hangarback Walker dies, it also fuels Tolarian Academy.

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Originally Posted by L10

Hangarback Walker is specifically played in Workshop because they can cast it for any XX combination. They play with a lot of resistors, and sometimes that results them having their threat stuck in their hand. With Hangarback Walker, that is not a problem, because it can be as big or as small as it wants to be. If Hangarback Walker dies, it also fuels Tolarian Academy.

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So other than sacing to Forgemaster, the Walker doesn't have enough synergies to be playable in the Legacy MUD version?