I'll be honest, I really can't remember what STE stands for...
Hm, I'll have to try some of those anti-combo cards suggested.
Printable View
I'll be honest, I really can't remember what STE stands for...
Hm, I'll have to try some of those anti-combo cards suggested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Saw a really interesting version of Rock. Using 1 of Reveillark to bring bank all diffrent creatures but the Tarmogoyf.
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=26636
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Doran, the Siege Tower
2 Eternal Witness
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reveillark
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tidehollow Sculler
Spells
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
1 Unearth
4 Aether Vial
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Lands
4 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Warmth
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
Found this version really interesting.
I like that build a lot. I'm slowly collecting all the needed pieces to build The Rock, I'm trying to ween myself off blue based decks, and I really, really like that build. The only "problem" I see is that it's really light on removal. Like, 3 StP and that's it. I understand that it runs a pretty decent discard package, but still, I'm leery relying on 3 StP to deal with resolved threats; many of our creatures are utility creatures and not really equipped to handle themselves in combat.
So any thoughts on the above build? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
I suppose Noble Hierarch could and probably should be Sakura Tribe Elder, but anything else?
hey clark
that list seems very gyard reliant. i mean 1 relic and all of those creatures are done for.i would try to mix in a non gyard reliant creature.
cant think of any at the moment:tongue:
but you get the gist of it.
you still playing pox?
The mana curve also seems a little top-heavy (16 three-drops?), especially since you're running Armageddon. Relying on opening on a Bird or Hierarch is dangerous. It's also annoying to only be able to do one thing per turn, while your opponent does something on theirs and something on yours (or several things on theirs).
It looks like a fun start though. Care to post a more detailed primer?
People, answer my question: Anyone had played a kind of Flow Rock?
I would but I really don't know much about the deck's matchups other than knowing that he seems to beat my Fairie Stompy list with it pretty frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by coraz86
In what ways are this deck better than Eva Green?
Eva Green is more about efficiency and synergy. The list above seems to be about raw power, and Rock in general is about playing the attrition war well and slowly whittling the opponent down to zero. I think my favorite is Darwin Kastle's deck at PT Houston '02. We obviously no longer have Vampiric Tutor, but the idea is still the same. You could also check out GP Philadelphia '08--several rock decks made top 8, and one of them won. I actually think the winning deck would port into Legacy pretty well, and the environment wasn't tremendously different. Obviously it was (being Extended), but the meta was similar, just not at the power level we see in Legacy.
Hi all,
I hope you don't mind me posting another list in this thread but it looks to be different from most lists I've seen here recently.
I'm a long time magic player and have been playing Rock variants (among every other archetype possible in Legacy, Vintage and Extended) since it's first incarnation. A lot of cards could be found in the early decklists as well but I think they have a lot to offer so they are still there.
In testing (up until now: Merfolk, RGAggroBurn, Dragon Stompy, UBCountertop and Aggro Loam, ANT coming soon) the deck has been performing really well. Maybe you can give this a spin yourself and share your opinion on my list? The list is definitely not completely finished but I wouldn't post it here if it hadn't been performing well and if I didn't think it to have real value.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder (They're almost essential to the deck, try them if you've never done so before)
3 Dark Confidant (I really would like to go to 4 although 3 have been really good)
3 Eternal Witness (I might cut one for an extra Dark Confidant)
3 Loxodon Hierarch (They have been incredible)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bloodstained Mire
5 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Volrath's Stronghold
It looks a lot like the Landstill decks from some time ago but plays differently nonetheless. Please, before you comment, play with the list because as always, some things are not as evident as you would think at first glimpse.
For the Sideboard I'm currently working with this:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Duress
3 Haunting Echoes
1 Loxodon Hierarch
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Options I'm considering or that I've considered for the main deck or the sideboard:
2 Darkblast, a lot of 1 toughness creatures around.
3 to 4 Qasali Pridemage, I haven't played with him but I instantly believe that he's really good. Just have to see if he fits in this deck. I already have Vindicate and Deed, although I realise it's something different to play with a creature, especially with the exalt ability. Still have to test him.
2 or 3 Krosan Grip
2 or 3 Maelstrom Pulse, the Vindicates togeter with the Pernicious Deeds seem to be enough.
3 Tidehollow Sculler, extra discard and beater for the sideboard. I'm just not sure yet if I need him/it.
1 or 2 Dust Bowl, until now the Vindicates have proven to be enough to take care of annoying lands.
3 Circle of Protection: Red, for if the burn matchups would prove to be too hard. At this point they don't seem necessary though. I even considered Heroes Reunion, always have to keep an open mind...
2 or 3 Engineered Explosives
2 or 3 Life from the Loam but for now the Eternal Witnesses have beeen more then good enough, even to bring back land if you need it.
4 Extirpate, I just want to see how effective Haunting Echoes can be. I know from earlier experience that Haunting Echoes is devestating, as long as you can prolong the game long enough. At the moment I'm just not sure if you can stay alive long enough for the Echoes to do it's thing. Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus might be better also.
Feel free to ask your questions if you're interested in the list and would like to know more.
Thanks for reading,
Robrecht
Odd Mutation: Your decklist is very simple with minimal disruption in the face of most of the relevant gameplans of todays decks. Your decks power play is simply not as amazing as other strategies, with that being eternal witness+relevant card.
I personally like the build you have prepared but to me it lacks the pizazz that a deck should do.
Your deck plays like a solid mid range deck until the pernicious deed plan goes off and resets the world, the problem with this plan being two fold.
1) You do not get to the mid game fast enough. I'm not saying that you do not try, with STE, swords, and thoughtsieze you can slow the game down to quite a crawl.
Decks you will be competing with can completly skip turns one and two and start playing bombs that cost 3-5 on turn one, all of which are problems for you.
2) Once in the mid game, your deck does not want to see the late game.
Your deck has the witness tricks, but after that the stronghold is your only recursion. Any deck with Life from the Loam, Survival, Counterbalance, Crucible or any other solid recursion strategy will be swimming around you in the late game.
I have tested all five of the decks that you have mentioned and I do not feel that the matchup is where any of them should be.
That being said, I will say that your deck is extremely consistant and does what it wants to do game after game after game, it just lacks the broken plays that can come from behind and win. This is one of the better TopRock decks that I have seen and it can and will win games.
On another note: I have never been happy with Heirarch since the printing of tarmogoyf. I believe that he is a card where everyone always remembers where playing him actually won the game but they don't remember the 9 other games where he gained four life, chumped a goyf and then you died.
I would definatly add wastelands to your deck, no real reason other than personal preference to not play them. They do everything you want in a card and hinder you in no way, shape or form.
Also, playing less than seven discard spells also seems like a bad idea. Your deck can and will scoop it up to a turn two counterbalance, notice how all your answers are counterable and cost three. I would cut the hierarchs and a top to add four duress.
Finally I would cut two land and a top to get three tombstalker into the mix. I'm not sure if you noticed but he is really good and wins games.
So changes would be:
-3 Heirarch
-1 SDT
-1 Plains
-1 Swamp
-2 Forest
-1 Heath
-1 Stronghold
+4 Wasteland
+3 Tombstalker
+3 Duress
btw I hate volraths stronghold on many levels...
Well, discuss!
P.S.
@pat: The difference between eva and the rock: eva is aggro and rock is (aggro)control.
Let's not forget that Sakura-Tribe Elder sucks post-M10.
Many Rock players will need to find other strategies to accelerate/smooth mana curves.
peace,
4eak
It still does what you need it to do...for the most part.
It fogs for a turn and fetches you a basic land. That seems perfectly fine to me. Worse comes to worse you actually trade with a 1 toughness creature but usually STE just sucks it to a goyf.
I cannot remember the last time the damage stacked with Sakura-Tribe Elder did anything for me. I doubt that a situation will come up where that one damage is relevant. The nerf to other creatures will probably outweigh the one situation in 100 where that one damage is relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4eak
@ HAVE HEART
How unfortunate for you that you can't remember.Quote:
I cannot remember the last time the damage stacked with Sakura-Tribe Elder did anything for me. I doubt that a situation will come up where that one damage is relevant. The nerf to other creatures will probably outweigh the one situation in 100 where that one damage is relevant.
I've found it relevant enough times that we should consider it. Even if it doesn't trade, the possibility that it can trade is enough to influence the gamestate. Even if it only stops my opponent from swinging with a 1-toughness creature, it did something.
The card is already borderline. It's ability to actually trade, and not just fog, was one of the reasons I would consider this card over other options. With m10 rules, this is just another strike against the card.
peace,
4eak
If the goal is to accelerate into the midgame with a two CC card then I say it still does what it is supposed to do.
What other options are there, BOP? Noble Heirarch? Neither of those can trade with anything and also don't fetch basic lands.
For one more mana you can get a wood elves but that does not seem much better than the STE.
STE is still the best option for people who want axcess to their one of basic lands.
Veteran explorer is another fine option , especially combined with cabal therapy .
Somewhere is this thread are several reasons why veteran explorer is a bad idea, namely it makes good matchups better and bad matchups worse.
Mutation: On another note this build was on deckcheck, it is very similar to your deck without the changes that I made. It has the sick BOP+cabal therapy synergy, which is always fun:
Mainboard:
2 Forest
3 Treetop Village
1 Savannah
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Swamp
1 Scrubland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Bayou
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Dark Confidant
2 Loxodon Hierarch
3 Eternal Witness
# 60
Sideboard:
4 Krosan Grip
2 Haunting Echoes
3 Extirpate
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Umezawa's Jitte