[Deck] The Gate

I honestly forgot that Vendetta was nonblack... FAIL! But anyways, I've been wanting to vary my kill spells' mana costs, as all of them get shut off by Chalice @ 2. Any suggestions?

I run a single sword alongside a pair of Jittes. You're right, Jitte is a house, but I want 3 equipables and running 3 Jittes leaves me drawing multiples far too often.

Gatekeeper is a house imho. BBB = Cruel Edict + Bear = VCA.

I don't play Hippie or Nantuko. I almost always either tap out for discard or a beater, or leave my mana open for a kill spell (or bluff), so I don't think I like Shade here. Hippie is just too slow without DRit, and I don't like that here either. This deck isn't about explosive aggro like the more traditional MBA, the Gate is about controlling the board, at least mine is. I'm looking to capitalize on the aggro-filled meta right now post Mystical Tutor getting banned.

Quote:

---

What are some thoughts on SoFI vs SoLS here?

---

Although I love both of the swords, in a general sense, I do not run either in my build of the deck. Running a 1-of without a tutor such as Stoneforge Mystic (who, umm... doesn't play well in a monoblack deck) means I draw into the sword so inconsistently as to make it an undependable card. I run three jittes because 1.) I want to see it in a good number of games, and 2.) The first one often gets forced, legend-killed, Pridemaged, etc... (I also like legend-killing their jitte, btw.)

Vs. Zoo, I do not think that either of the swords is the answer. In fact, I have been siding out one of my jittes and all of my Bobs vs. Zoo, lately. Equipment, while devastating to Zoo once you get it up and running, is often too slow, and can crush your tempo (which is already vastly outmatched by theirs) when you go to equip, and they bolt or path in response.

If I had to pick one of the swords, I would go with SoLS, because many of our creatures are already out of burn range due to its +2/+2, and it handles the other two common colors of removal like a champ. Granted, card draw and free shocks are hard to pass up, but it feels a bit win-more to me, given that we have E-plague to help with tribal aggro. I'd also add that RB goblins, which I used to see in my local meta, isn't nearly as fearful of SoFI as the mono-red builds.

What do you think are the Pro´s and Con´s of replacing Confidant with Phyrexian Arena?
I currently consider swapping them, thinking "Arena´s cost me less life, and Confi will ALLWAYS be handled the turn i play it, while the Arenas mostly will be handled only Post-Board "

Just for shits and giggles, ill throw in my recent list:

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Bloodghast

2 Bitterblossom
3 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy

2 Umezawa´s Jitte
19 Swamp
3 Wasteland

SB:
4 Deathmark
2 Perish
3 Nevinrael´s Disk
3 Pithing Needle
2 Faerie Macabre
1 ____________


Ps:
I abandonend the Swords, they are just too expensive (mancost) and jitte just seems to be the best deal in a way.... What im concerned about atm...i feel like i play too less removal, not sure here :)

I´m playing Dark Cofidant because he can carry the Jitte and beats.
With 10 cc1 Discardspells (4x Duress, 4x Cabal Therapy, 2x Inquisitions of K.) I´m mostly able to protect him a few turns.

What´s about adding Fetchies for Bloodghast. They can recover him twice. But we would take 1 damage and Stifle becomes stronge.

I think just to be able to sac the Ghast twice into lets say Innocent Blood / Cabal Therapy, thats not worth giving all the Thresh/Horizon / Random Stifle - Players out there the chance to disrupt my game ;)
I think Ghast is fine supported by having 22 Lands :)

About Confidant:
Yes the beatstick ability.... i kinda overlook that a lot lately.

Here is my list that went 4-0 (1st place) at the RIT tournament in Rochester, NY this past Saturday while beating several high grade decks in the process:

1cc//

4 Duress
4 Innocent Blood
3 Cabal Therapy

2cc//

4 Dark Confidant
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir (I like to think of him more of a 3 drop though)
3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Smother

3cc//

4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Faerie Macabre

4cc//

4 Abyssal Persecutor

// Lands
X17 [A] Swamp
X4 [TE] Wasteland

SB:

3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Disfigure
2 Gate to Phyrexia
2 Oblivion Stone
2 Executioner's Capsule
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Faerie Macabre

I might be making a few slight modifications to the SB for this deck however the mainboard functioned almost flawlessly so I probably won't be making any changes.

I found that although 3 Bitterblossom seems high and there are several people here who cut down to 2, you can usually count on at least one of them to get countered or nuked and since this card wins games it's worth including a backup.

Most of the deck is pretty much cookie cutter off of Hollywood's list so I won't really include explanations unless you want to know why I include a certain quantity of such and such a card.

In regards to SB:

Mindbreak trap: I'm paranoid about the combo matchup however since combo appears to be dead in my meta I may actually be cutting these for something else

Disfigure: I included this to improve my Goblins matchup and for Merfolk and so far it's done the job. Yeah it doesn't kill Goyf's or a bunch of the Zoo guys but there currently no Zoo in my meta and it still kills tons of relevant creatures and prevents swarm decks from building up threats.

Gate to Phyrexia: Might get kicked up to 3 copies since it's sooooo damn good in my meta. Anything that relies on artifacts gets beasted by this card, plus it can kill off Persecutor.

Oblivion Stone: Only reason I run this over disk is Planeswalkers since I lost to Jace last time I played the deck and I had Disk on the board. Didn't get a chance to see this guy in action but it seems good on paper.

Executioner's Capsule: My answer to Reanimator since I can get this puppy out turn 1 and then nuke Iona if necessary. Probably will get cut as Reanimator doesn't really exist in my meta and there are better meta choices.

Hymn to Tourach: Disgusting against combo and control and a must-run for every mono black deck. Period.

Extra Macabre: I could've run Extirpate/Leyline/Crypt in this spot but Macabre is exceedingly efficient and the fact that I can beat in with him makes him the best choice, IMO, for graveyard hate in this deck.


I'll weigh in quick on a few things I'm seeing here:

@ Confidant vs. Arena: Confidant is clearly better as it synergizes more with Therapy, Jitte and the general beatdown of this deck. Also increasing the mana curve of the deck with another 3 drop just seems bad to me. The only thing I like is that it doesn't bite it to Innocent Blood but that really doesn't make much of a diff. Run Confidant.

@ Bloodghast: This guy could work but it's largely because he gets Jitted. I will test with him and get back to you on this. I'll probably try cutting 1 Persecutor for him since Persecutor was a bit lackluster in my tournament.

@ Nantuko Shade: Awful awful awful awful, and trust me I love Shade as I played him for 4 years. This deck needs to be constantly playing down threats and disruption and it can barely afford the mana to equip Jitte. Tying up your mana in one creature is a surefire way to get stomped by fast aggro decks since you don't gain the same advantages you would with Gatekeeper and Nighthawk and they'll just chump block, or kill, your shade. Basically it's an opportunity for them to make you waste your mana with pumps before STP/Pathing your dude.

@ Sword of Light and Shadow: Why? Jitte is straight up better and 3 of generally doesn't result in overdrawing of the card. You shouldn't have to recur creatures since the deck is very threat heavy and Bitterblossom provides you with infinite dudes that fly. Lifegain is also completely unneccessary as well and when recurring guys you'll have the same issue of shade in that you won't have enough mana to play down what you draw as well as what you recur and you'll get bottlenecked.

@ Inquisition of Kozilek: Sorry, but I hate this card. It doesn't hit FoW, it doesn't hit Ad Nauseum, it doesn't hit Belcher or Empty, it doesn't hit Natural Order. The point of Duress is to disable combo decks and plow the road against control. This card does neither of those effectively and basically will just give you overkill against aggro by hitting their dudes. The build runs 9+ removal spells plus Nighthawk and Jitte for crying out loud so why would you need more creature removal? If you want to play with this card, play type 2.

Did anyone try Extirpate? With such number of discard it can be good.

@ Osmin: I actually had Extirpate in my board originally but due to the low number of graveyard based decks I've removed it. Were I to add in any additional graveyard hate on top of Macabre it would be Extirpate since it cripples Loam decks and does some serious damage against most other graveyard based decks. I wouldn't recommend it over Macabre in the main though since Macabre doubles over as a beater and Extirpate will probably be sub par against most Aggro and Control decks.

bloodghast is ok. you get some nice synergy with innocent blood and therapy. i just played a game against stiflenaught where i emptied his head with turn 1 duress -> turn 2 therapy-?thereapy -> turn 3 bloodghast -> 2 flashbacked therapies.

against zoo its ok because it makes them find swords or path instead of bolts and chain. its also nice to have a constant jitte threat. i also like how he makes your 5th land useful. if you run bloodghast i think bitterblossom is cut.

percy is ok. if the bloodwitch was 4 mana she would be my finisher of choice in this deck for sure.

Hollywood - love the deck, love the thread. Keep on truckin'!

I've read the first ten pages or so and thoroughly enjoyed the deck and evolution. I'll probably tackle something close to the version on page 4. Here is the version with a few tweaks:

// Lands
16 [A] Swamp
4 [TE] Wasteland
2 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

// Creatures
4 [WWK] Abyssal Persecutor
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
1 [ZEN] Bloodghast

// Spells
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [CS] Deathmark
1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
4 [OD] Innocent Blood
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [US] Duress
3 [MOR] Bitterblossom

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [WL] Spinning Darkness
SB: 3 [MR] Oblivion Stone
SB: 4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
SB: 3 [ZEN] Sadistic Sacrament

Most notably, I've swapped numbers with Bitterblossom and Jitte back to 3/2, respectively. Second, I trimmed the Deathmarks. Throughout the thread, I have been pro-DM as a great, efficient, yet narrow removal spell that fulfilled your needs. Unfortunately, my meta is vastly different from Hollywood's that I cannot effectively use it. I've replaced two of the three Deathmarks with a Slaughter Pact and a Bloodghast, and I've retained the one as a blowout against the various Bant, New Horizons, and Aggro Loam decks we have floating around.

Edit: O-Stone > Disk, after seeing Chubu's post.

Bloodghast cannot block, often cannot get through, but he's strong in the mirror and every land turns into another Jitte-body. He also keeps coming back against Zoo. Invest once, recur excessively? Seems plausible, or at least testable. I cannot see running more than three 'Ghasts, but one is a good starting point.

I cannot see running three Sadistic Sacrament over two Nether Void and a Dystopia because I can borrow the cards. We do have two Enchantress players here, but Disk seems to do double duty. We have no Combo players but I have ANT ready and we have enough experienced players.

Lastly, before I take this out for a Friday night of sushi and testing, I haven't seen the Elfball matchup addressed. Hollywood, if you're still reading this thread, I would appreciate your thoughts. To anyone else, if the matchup has been addressed, just post once and I'll find it. (And please accept my humble apologies).


PS: Is anybody else amused that nobody mentioned Slaughter Pact in a Bob-deck (through page 10)? I know the deck eats mana for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but I still think it absurd nobody considered running it!

Slaughter Pact is indeed interesting, I always forget about it...

what do you guys think about finding some room for 2-3 tops in here ?

with so many sorceries/creatures we are pretty dormant on our opponents turn and mid game can start to chug by top decking hymns/duress etc. the top would be a good way to spend spare mana, find the sac outlet for percy, keep the confidant from hurting us. it also gives us a broader range of turn one keeper hands.

ive found bitterblossom to me rather underwhelming so that would be my first cut for top. bitterblossom seems better for pox or if you are running contamination. there is a lot of stuff competing for what we do on turn 2 and bitterblossom is my least favorite option.

some other cards i want to play around with are :
basilisk collar (fits a little better with the overall theme of the deck and lets malakir trade with zoo creatures instead of chumping)
cabal pit.
bojuka bog (though i dont really like come into play tapped stuff) i played a guy tonight who knew the list and needled the faerie macabre

id also really the sideboard to include more creatures to keep the balance of the deck relatively the same in games 2 and 3.

stillmoon cavalier
necroplasm as an alternative to plague

and finally something fun :

the alt win con of leyline/helm of obedience

I´m not sure about playing Bojuka Bog because I´m playing 14 cards with cc1 and don´t know if I can support them. And Wastelands can hurt us.

Can we discuss hymn to tourach a bit?
I see many ppl playing it in the Sideboard, but i dont understand it. In Control Matchups, Hymn is a must have as far as im concerned, but even vs Zoo and Stuff.... why would u not want to have it main there? I think of it as a good card in all Matchups :)
(U are invited to consider other matchups than zoo, its just my "number 1 this needs to be fixed as a matchup" deck :D )

i would argue hymn is the only reason to even play this deck. it only get sided out versus dredge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imanujakku

i would argue hymn is the only reason to even play this deck. it only get sided out versus dredge.

---

By all means, please...argue. Explain to us all why you feel one discard spell - by itself - justifies picking up an entire deck and playing with it.

Even if you're advocating its use simply by its power level, Hymn to Tourach isn't the only catalyst that wins this deck games.

what else are you putting in its place that can swing a game as much as hymn ?

hymn is subpar versus dredge. every other deck is chalk full of cards id love to see hit the graveyard on turn 2.

i dont really see how the deck reaches the midgame without a bridge to the midgame and hymn is pretty much the only bridge card. if there was a two for one removal spell for two mana id use that.

honestly the only reason to play this deck is because you like mono black decks or rogue decks. the mid game is a tough place to win in legacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imanujakku

what else are you putting in its place that can swing a game as much as hymn ?

hymn is subpar versus dredge. every other deck is chalk full of cards id love to see hit the graveyard on turn 2.

i dont really see how the deck reaches the midgame without a bridge to the midgame and hymn is pretty much the only bridge card. if there was a two for one removal spell for two mana id use that.

honestly the only reason to play this deck is because you like mono black decks or rogue decks. the mid game is a tough place to win in legacy.

---

I think you are sorely underestimating what this deck is tailored to do, so I would refer you back to the first several pages of the thread to understand the formula for which the deck is predicated on. This deck is tailor-made to sustain the mid-game, unlike the countless, mindless Suicide Black decks which dump their hands turn one or two and subsequently never recover.

This deck does not do that.

You have to understand Hymn to Tourach is not the only "bridge", as you put it, to sustain the first few turns so the deck can flow easier into each subsequent turn thereafter. In case you missed it, there is an absolutely ridiculous amount of sacrificial and spot removal in this deck to completely nullify any sort of early attack stemming from cards like Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape, etc. Bottom line is that no creatures should be on the board by turn three against you. And even if they somehow manage to land a creature, you have a statistically very good chance of drawing into some sort of removal.

The basis for which this deck functions is that it does not deplete itself early so that it can never recover. It is comprised of cheap, efficient removal with powerful under-costed creatures (and other spells) that offset just about anything detrimental to your game-state. That is what separates this deck from traditional mono-colored black decks that are geared towards overwhelming an opponent the first two turns by depleting your own hand in the process. That couldn't further from the truth for this deck here.

This deck is definitely not as good as Sui Mask especially with the white splash for E. Tutor. Why play this over a B/W Mask deck? I mean, a 6/6 for four and two cards or a 12/12 for 3 and two cards? There's no comparison.

i saw this thread a couple days ago. i built my deck off these three lists that popped up on deck check. im all for a sustainable mid game but i cant see running 4 deathmarks main to get there versus one deck. even with deathmark you cant hit lavamancer or ape and everything you have zoo can easily remove the gatekeeper might as well read as a 3 mana chainers versus them . hymn is solid versus everything else and i cant see taking out a card that is good versus everything but dredge in favor of a card that is could be a very weighty game one brick.

none of these lists run deathmark main and the contamination list is the only one without hymn because contamination has taken its place.

hymn is great against anything blue and probably the only reason i dont autoscoop to a standstill when playing this deck. we are already very light on good legacy cards in this deck and it would take a card on par with its power level to get me to remove it from a mono black list.


http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36613
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36582
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36578