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I think the new grim haruspex may replace liliana in my list. For testing purpose, but yeah, if you have the mana this guy can draw you some cards. Maybe i'll start toying with song of the damned again. Seems potentially spicy. Could also suck, although both the new critter and liliana die to burn, so who knows.
I've been interested in this deck for a while and would like to take it to a local legacy tournament. I've only played it a few times. I think I am going to use ghost's list as a starting list, and change stuff based on what I have. Got any tips for people new to this deck? What are our strongest matchups? What are our weakest?
Miracles is probably the worst MU for the deck, next to Burn. Don't have many tips to give though. Don't rely on the grave so much games two and three. If you can, exile whatever they are targeting with Surgical Extraction with DRS, and in the DRS target fight, let them make the move first. It isn't all that too imperative to use it yourself, let them try it.
So how are you guys doing with zombardment post khans? Have you guys made any changes post khans? It feels really hard sometimes to keep up with my opponents when they are treasure cruising/digging through time. Not really sure what to run to keep up with them. Young pyromancers andchains of mephistopheles seem tempting.
We discussed it a little bit on mtgsalvationQuote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
Copy & Paste my thoughts:
I thought about Gerry Ts deck (and already brewing with Young Pyromancer a lot).
The biggest issue (and it is a common problem with this deck) is, that most Zombies and our beloved Vampire can't block. A meta full with UR Delver will "swift" attack over the dead horde. Discard itself isn't so good, if opponents can refuel with Treasure Cruise. With this in mind, even our Tidehollow Sculler isn't the best option, if opponents pack lot of additional red spot removal and other opponents bring in Pyroclasm and other Sweepers.
The good news are, that Goblin Bombardment and Tokens or reusable Spells aren't so bad vs Treasure Cruise and/or fast Assaults.
My current brew is something like this:
//Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Undiscovered Paradise
//Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
//Other Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Entomb
2 Goblin Bombardment
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Darkblast
Generally no more "Zombies" and "less bad topdecks" - sure i loved Carrion Feeder Action, but with Bolt, Swiftspears, YP-Token etc. i am not sure, that it is time for the old "Walking Dead" stuff.
As i mentioned, Bombardment itself isn't so bad now, so besides Gravecrawler, Tokens are the way to abuse it.
The build contains less creatures, but they are all "powerfull" enough and generate synergies with the rest of the deck.
Deathrite: Fix Mana, gives Range, fights Grave Combo and Delve, supports a T2 YP + Spell Move
Young Pyromancer: Generate value, while fragile itself, he synergies well with a deck full of spells and can triumph with Bombardment
Bloodghast: The persistent Attacker, useable with Entomb, Looting, Liliana and needed for some Therapy and Bombardment Action
Vengeful Pharaoh: UR Delver will hate him, without Stifle, TNN, Nimble etc. they can't answer him well. Even Grafdigger's Cage will fail. Later he is a threat
Compared to traditional Walking Dead builds, this version runs more removal:
Playset Bolt: also useable against Walkers/Players
Darkblast: reusable Removal, lot of synergy with the deck (remember it with Pharaoh!)
Entomb + Pharaoh: will generate a nasty surprise
Jitte: the common flexible equipment, pump, life, kill
Liliana: only a 1off, but i like her in a Walking Dead shell, sadly she lost some of her power against Treasure Cruise...
More Thoughts:
Manabase isn't set in stone, maybe -1 Bayou +1 Plateau etc. which can be lead to a WW-Support which enables Auriok Champion as a nice (and weird) sideboard tech against UR and Burn (no Wastelands here).
Sideboard isn't ready, but get some Decays, more Combo Hate (since the maindeck has no Scullers) etc.
I went 4-0 with zombardment at our local Monday night legacy.
I used a list similar to the last one I posted. There were a few things to note...
I still think 4 bombardments is the right call. It's the best call in the deck and I'm always happy to see 2. It's nearly the ONLY card in the deck that can be profitably countered, discarded, or destroyed so it draws a ton of removal. I ran 2 blood scrivener; they were good as blockers and as zombies but they never actually drew me any cards, I don't think I'll play it again. I also ran Tymaret as 1 of--he's awesome and won me two games.
My games were:
G1
4 color Lands Controlly Deck with lingering souls and humility 1-0-1
This was a fun matchup, game 1 was super grindy and went 35 minutes. I won when I found sensei's divining top and dug for bombardment. Game 2 wasn't close to ending and could have gone either way. Once again he was at like 5 life looking for a wincon and I was looking for bombardment.
Both games he had humility down. The card has some interesting interactions with us. You can still recur your ghasts and crawlers, they just become 1/1s.
I had a great play at one point in Game 1 where had two punishing fires online and was burning my guys every turn. I had two gravecrawlers in my yard. Normally, I wouldn't be able to play tidehollow from my hand and recur crawler since he can respond to the tidehollow trigger and burn my guy before I get priority back to cast a crawler. However, since humility was in play, I was able to cast tidehollow, hold priority, cast gravecrawler, let him burn my tidehollow in response, then let the first gravecrawler resolve and play the second crawler, he then burned the first gravecrawler in response and I just recast it when the second one resolved.
G2
Burn 2-1
I got lucky, this matchup his absolutely horrible. She ended game 3 with 4 land in hand.
G3
Thought lash combo 2-0
This guy was playing a thought lash combo with that artifact that copies creatures or artifacts on top of your library. It was basically a turn 3-4 blue combo deck running 4 tops and 4 cb. I got there with discard and beats both games.
G4
Omnitell 2-0
Discard and beats gets there game 1. Discard and beats gets there game 2 after I surgical his brainstorm when he hides his goodies. Surgical is a must have in this sideboard.
Could new liliana be what this deck needs?
http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/l...icalhealer.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/l...ecromancer.jpg
Pretty sure she can work in the Zombardment-Shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
Sadly she can't reanimate herself or creatures from other yards with her minus X, so she missed the awesome status.
Compared to most current builds, adding the 4th Carrion Feeder in a deck with the new Liliana seems right (she can also reanimate him) and maybe also add the 3rd Goblin Bombardment back - similiar to the old Sam Black Builds. The biggest problem is, that deck has no space if you update the numbers of feeder/bombardment and also add 2-3 of the upcoming Liliana, because most cards are set in stone unless we get better or equal stuff.
The deck also has to fight Deathrites, RiP, CPriest, Cage and get still outclassed from Gofy or annoying creatures like TNN...
I still think the deck works well enough on its own and offers a lot of fun, but most of the time you have to fight an uneven battle, because most legacy decks stack much better spells compared to the stuff most Zombardment Builds bring to the table.
Is anyone playing this deck any more? I played it a few times, but it never quite had enough of an edge.
It seems to be really good vs OmniTell. I've got an insane win% vs the entire field with OmniTell, but Sam Black's Zombies has been a 25% matchup thus far, according to my spreadsheet.
I guess it's time to sleeve them up again . . . Anything that inspires you to leave elves in the dust is worth trying to beat. :)
I'm curious though, how does Zombardment cause problems for Omnitell?
Thoughtseize, Therapy, Sculler all MB is a huge beating for combo decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by henweigh
it's good to beat non PIF combo decks ^^
anyway possible thalia , thorns , o ring could really be annoying for combo
Julian , i saw this too during playtest with a friend he played Zomb and he crushed my UR omni rough to dodge all discard Lily O ring :(
i'm wondering what's Zombie win% vs Miracle ?
Zombardment is a very skill intense deck, many decision-trees etc. The deck contains no countermagic, but besides the lack of the blue-legacy-shell it has a good combo matchup, because you have a lot of cheap disruption and a fast clock. Consider the fact, that Omnitell is one of the slowest combo decks, it should be more than beatable for Zombardment (see Julians post)Quote:
Originally Posted by henweigh
The biggest issue are the "weak" cards (compared to the powerfull legacy stuff) and as mentioned above Zombardment has a lot of hard matchups mixed with complicated decisions.
Last weekend i visit my old home Berlin (known as the combo hell) and found enough time for a small legacy tournament. I still love this deck and give it another try. Compared to my latest list which won me a 40 player tournament. I made some changes to the new meta. Sadly i left the Entomb-Bridge-Plan, because i need some space. Miracle isn't the worst matchup and i finally put in the 4th Lingering Souls and 3rd Bombardment - both cards are really good in this Matchup.
Against Omnitell Canonist is good enough to get a 2nd Disruption- and a 2nd Attack-Phase´(and more important). Bombardment itself can also catch up a game, if you can sneak it into Show & Tell and sacrifice your dudes for lethal damage.
My latest list:
// Deck: Walking Dead (60)
// Lands
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Undiscovered Paradise
// Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
3 Carrion Feeder
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Rotting Rats
// Spells
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Goblin Bombardment
1 Liliana of the Veil
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Dark Confidant
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Rakdos Charm
Still unsure about Confidant (i can also see Bitterblossom or even Koth here).
I finally missed a good run in Berlin and ended 2:2; my matchups were: 2:0 vs Miracle (see above); 0:2 vs UR Delver (missplays from me..) 0:2 vs ANT (sometimes they get you..) and finally 2:0 vs BUG Food Chain Combo
@P-E: You can beat PiF, Sculler exiles a card and you also have Deathrites to fight PiF - but yeah, more graveyard-hate at side (extraction, rakdos charm) will also help against ANT and you also have Null Rod and maybe Canonist/Thorn/Thalia. Ask Kai/sawatarix he will remember some matchup against my Walking Dead Pet Deck ;)
ahah thx MD for an update on it , i think i'll try to sleeve it to test it i missed only a rotting rats !!
why rakdos charm over golgari ? more gravehate ?
blossom + bombardment would shine against miracle ^^
what about Lands , it seems a really poor match up
for lands: relic of progentitus, scavenging ooze, diabolic edict, innocent blood. pithing needle, extirpate, surgical extraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by P-E
I agree it seems unfavorable. Attack their gy where possible, and find diabolic edict or swords to plowshares. Meanwhile goblin bombardment helps to convert their punishing fire into damage to them. lotleth troll, tidehollow sculler and deathrite shaman are usually effective against punishing fire as long as there aren't multiples yet.
Relentless Dead seems good in this deck.
I disagree wholeheartedly. It's expensive and doesn't synergize with what this deck is trying to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat
Relentless Dead is good at recurring other cards from the yard, but this whole deck is based on cards that already recur themselves. Gravecrawler comes back for B when R.Dead is in play without R.Dead's ability being relevant at all. On top of that, using R.Dead means you have to keep 2 mana open for maximum effect. If you're machine gunning things with Bombardment, you have to spend BBB for each shot with R.Dead. That's poop.
R.Dead may have a shining future in some deck, but I don't see what it adds to Zombardment.
Hi,
http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/diregrafcolossus.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/prizedamalgam.jpg
New toys for the deck ?
Jeez those cards are pushed. I can't wait to see what ReneRandrup cooks up.