BBD just posted a 75 minute video examining the BUG vs. RUG matchup here:Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...UG-Delver.html
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BBD just posted a 75 minute video examining the BUG vs. RUG matchup here:Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...UG-Delver.html
Play control, be patient, block>attack 95% of the time, don't rush into stifle but let them keep their land open, don't rush into daze with your important spells unless you won't be able to play around it at all, RUG is my best match-up so play my version.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
I like the idea of having FOW in SB. Not sure about 4 Jaces. SB seems to narrow? Since we are low on spot removal Garruk as a one of could be usefull.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Fortune_
@Lejay is it possible to put a link to your most current list in your sig? Thx.
It's pretty much a typical bug list. 2 glissa, 4 strix. But maybe I can show you a bit about what role glissa should primarily have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korvo
I work for a financial institution so I generally try to look at deckbuilding the same way I look at portfolio management. So here's my tactical asset allocation based on the sligh curve benchmark.
1 mana slot: 9-13
2 mana slot: 6-8
3 mana slot: 3-5
4 mana slot: 1-3
X spell (fireball, etc.): 1-3
One-shot Artifact/LD: 2-5
One-shot Direct Damage (Bolts, Incinerates, etc.): 8-10
Utility land (Mishra, Strip, etc.) 4-8
Red Mana Land 15-18
1 mana slot:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Brainstorm
Sligh: 9-13
Mine: 8
Underweight -1
2 mana slot:
4 Baleful Strix
3 Tarmogoyf
Sligh: 6-8
Mine: 7
3 mana slot:
4 Shardless Agent
2 Glissa, the Traitor
Sligh: 3-5
Mine: 6
Overweight: +1
4 mana slot:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sligh: 1-3
Mine: 3
X spell (fireball, etc.):
4 Ancestral Visions
Sligh: 1-3
Mine:4
Overweight: +1
One-shot Artifact/LD:
4 Abrupt Decay
Sligh: 2-5
Mine: 4
One-shot Direct Damage (Bolts, Incinerates, etc.)Since we're not playing red, the direct damage turns into additional disruption spells.
3 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
Sligh: 8-10
Mine: 6
Underweight -2
Utility land (Mishra, Strip, etc.)
3 Wasteland
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Silgh: 4-8
Mine: 5
Mana Land
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 verdant catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Forest
1 Island
Sligh: 15-18
Mine: 17
Summary
1cc underweight -1 to maximize the shardless agent potential. Deathrite doubles as mana acceleration.
3cc overweight +1 the 3cc because I think deathrite can help with the mana for glissa and I wouldn't drop a shardless.
x spell overweight +1 again we want to maximize shardless potential so we maximize ancestral visions
One-shot disruption underweight -2.
What does this tell us?
Most of the overweights and underweights are there strictly to accommodate the shardless agent combo. Which means the main purpose of Glissa is to be used as disruption. I guess I think glissa's body act as sufficient disruption in addition to another draw engine works in my best interest.
My list doesn't change much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire_dk
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ancestral Vision
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 3 Whipflare
Why do you play a swamp? Would a Creeping Tar Pit, the 4th Underground Sea or a 2nd Badlands not be superior?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
With atleast 1 Swamp or Forest you can still cast Deathrite into Decay under a Blood Moon for example. I suppose that's the main reason :-)
Facing moon effects or B2B/wastelock/whatever in your metagame is a reason to run the swamp yes. Second main reason is to have a way to secure T1 DRS T2 Liliana against wasteland.
Against tempo decks it has some value as well.
This slot is removable if your metagame doesn't have any particular pressure on the mana base and lacks tempo decks. For example I would run Tar pit in its place if I was in a metagame with lots of control decks or any deck with planeswalkers.
Been looking into playing this deck so I took it for a test run today at one of the shops I frequent for Legacy. I ran a pretty stock Gerry T List with a third Wasteland instead of a fourth Underground Sea only because I'm waiting for the latter to come in the mail. I also only ran 1 Strix in the SB since the friend I borrowed cards from for the deck only had three so I replaced the fourth Strix with a Notion Thief in the board. I went 2-2 today in a four round swiss, going 2-1 against Patriot Tempo, 2-0 against Deathblade, 1-2 against Goblins, and 0-2 against Combo Elves.
Overall, I’m satisfied with the deck, and I think I’ll switch over to it from Jund since I’ve always wanted to play with Jace and Cascading into AV is too stupid to pass up. My only question to other Shardless BUG players is how do I shore up the Elves MU? I playtested this MU this recent Wednesday at my LGS and couldn’t figure out how to beat it. I probably need to adjust my board since a fourth FoW and a little more discard doesn’t seem to cut it half the time. Cards I’m considering: Engineered Plague (Good against Elves and Goblins, but seems too narrow. Might be okay for a LGS tournament, but not sure if I’d play them in a big tourney), Golgari Charm (Versatile, which I like, but doesn’t answer a lot of Elf creatures since many of them have more than 1 toughness), and Lejay’s whipflare tech (seems pretty cool, will have to test).
I think It's just understanding on what cards are key for them and what they need. Between Forces, Thoughtseizes, Hymn, and Decay, you should be able to prevent their progression for the combo. Stop their Glimpses, Heritage Druid, Nettle Sentinels, and their GSZ's and you should be ok. Remember they are a combo deck that can play an aggro plan, getting a Goyf online asap is key to applying pressure. Currently I am running a one of Pernicious Deed as a sweeper against many decks, including elves. I also have a Vendilion Clique in my board to interrupt combo decks and apply pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer_90
Has anyone had much experience using Massacre? I am considering 2-3 in the sideboard to bring against Death and Taxes and the many Stoneforge variants in my meta.
If played properly, I could take out a 1 and/or 2 drop in the beginning of the game for no mana, which would basically win the game. I find that if I can make it to turn 4 or 5 without losing board advantage I generally win against these decks.
There are a few Mavericks (with Mirran Crusader MD), D&T and Blade variants in my meta so I tried Massacre this last weekend. It was backbreaking and I will certainly use again.Quote:
Originally Posted by SansSerif
Elves is a midrange deck first and foremost. The combo plan is secondary. Kill Wirewood Symbiote on sight, it's the lynchpin of our fair gameplans. Plague is bad, too many 2-toughness critters, and Dryad Arbor and Symbiote don't die to it. Then it's NO=>Pro=>Have Liliana or lose, and the occasional random Archdruid. For sweepers, you probably want Perish or perhaps Whipflare. Perish conveniently solves a resolves Progenitus, too.
If they're about to Resolve a Hoof, take note of what cards don't have summoning sickness and kill them. Perish => Unhappy Elf player.
Elves has a ton of plans, identifying the one which we're on quickly and dismantling it is key. Robbed of the proper synergies, we're a pile of 1/1s in one colour and tribe, aka roughly the most hateable things ever.
Grafdigger's cage is nasty, shuts down both NO and GSZ, the latter of which is our main form of artifact removal.
If Elves is your main problem, Darkblast is nasty. Stalls us, grows your Goyfs.
If you're trying to hate for DnT, I think dread of night is strictly a better card. It kills all of the problem cards that the deck actually cares about, and you can cascade into it. It's also something you can bring in for lingering souls decks. It's less impactful against maverick but still does some work.Quote:
Originally Posted by SansSerif
Lejay, I'm highly considering running 23 lands instead of 22, I feel that the only time the deck ever loses is when it falls behind on its mana drops. I have two Hymns MD which I am considering dropping for my fourth fourth FoW and the 23rd land. Do you ever want them in a certain meta or do they just not serve you well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
Gol-gari-CharmQuote:
Originally Posted by Darkness
That cards does everything you expect from Dread while being a good all around card against white Leylines and Supreme Verdict
Do you really side in Golgari Charm against a supreme verdict deck?Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackStarDeceiver
When most decks are 2% of the metagame, it's like a metagame doesn't exist which is basically what Legacy is. Sure, there are the top three decks that comprise 20-40% of the field, but that's still not a large number. For example, last weekend I played against Belcher, Burn, Mono-Blue, and Aggro Loam. There are times when whatever prep you do to beat RUG, Show and Tell, Deathblade, etc is going to be worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
If I'm playing a durdle-y midrange deck, I want to have a shot against everything. Shardless BUG is a natural favorite against most decks, and with a little tuning, you can be prepared for basically any deck in the tournament. Why would you skew it away from beating combo if you didn't have to? So your RUG matchup can go from 65% to 75%?
@GerryT: so whats your SB when you say you are prepaired for everything?
Supreme Verdict Deck aka Esper usually plays lingering souls and/or dark confidant. "countering" a verdict will often seal a game since they rightfully rely on it to resolve.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakimmd
So, yes if you play it you side it in.