Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

While it can be useful, I don't think card manipulation is strictly necessary: you could play more threats instead.

On the other hand I absolutely think that chalices are mandatory now with the printing of swan song. That would mean letting tops go, and since I haven't liked scroll rack I would play Crystall balls instead.

However I'm more attracted by Heretic's Punishment now. It's one mana more expensive than pyromancy both to cast and activate but it has some advantages.

First of all it doesn't play with the cards in your hand, so you don't need a beef to turn it on. Instead it plays with your deck, so it's not card disadvantage.

Moreover it doesn't pick a random card but the best of the first three cards of your library: while this is intrinsically random at least it let you pick the best of three random cards, not a random card in your hand.

Note that it also has synergy with emrakul and the wurm.

I'm going to test a list with stock creatures (I prefer wurms to colossus), more lock elements (4 chalice, 3 blood moon and 2 trinisphere) and 2 Heretic's Punishment in place of koth/pyromancy.

EDIT: I'm not taking credit for the punishment as I saw someone (sorry I don't remember the name) suggesting it on Caleb's article.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Forum Runner

I've been curious about heretic's punishment for some time now but I thought it was a little cute and not good enough. good luck wth the testing and let us know how it goes!

I have a few problems with Heretic's Punishment.
-The first is the mana cost. The one more CC is a negligible but the 4 to activate is expensive. Not only is it 4, but theres a red requirement as well. Earlier we were all discussing how pyromancy is already on the verge of too cost prohibitive. Heretics is just more all around.
-Second is true random. Yes you get three chances to hit a high CC card. You also get three chances to brick and spend 4 mana doing nothing. If you're tapping tomb or needle, or using accelerants, you could be spending precious resources on an unknown. The reason it's so easy to blow resources on pyromancy is that generally you KNOW it's a game breaker. True every once and a while you can't avoid having something else in your hand, but mostly, you can.
-Third could be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the situation. The interaction is slightly different. With pyromancy, you tap 3, choose a target, discard a card at random and then that much damage goes on the stack. This presents 2 pieces of information that punishment does not. 1 You know how much damage is coming since you see the card/s in your hand, 2 the opponent sees how much damage is coming before responding. With Heretic's you have to choose a target and the opponent has to respond before knowing the amount a damage. The main place this becomes a problem is when an attacking creature is chipping our life total down to lethal but the opponent is at 15, or 12, or something within range. Do you target the opponent for the kill hoping for a fatty, or do you target the creature knowing all you need to do is hit a seething song or spirit guide to stay alive? When tapping things like the tomb or the needle these decisions can be very cruccial to a game and therfore a match. Just something to think about while you all throw large objects at eacother.

I've pretty much trimmed pyromancy out of my lists other than a one of in the board so I won't be doing too much testing with Heretic's but I'd love to hear how if performs if anyone gives it a real go.

@King-I'm with you on dropping the tops. Swan song must be dealt with. Hopefully it will only replace a second flusterstorm in some decks, but shutting down the show and tell engine means it has potential for a lot of sideboards.

I've been very happy with Crystal Ball, scrying away as many as ten cards in a game. The effect is powerful, and useful against Vendilion Clique and Jace. It doesn't help if you're short on mana, but it's good in most other situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CalebD

I've been very happy with Crystal Ball, scrying away as many as ten cards in a game. The effect is powerful, and useful against Vendilion Clique and Jace. It doesn't help if you're short on mana, but it's good in most other situations.

---

How many? And removing what?

How do you guys deal with a turn 2 gaddock teeg?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KobeBryan

How do you guys deal with a turn 2 gaddock teeg?

---

Game one if you don't have Inferno Titan you just kind of lose. Postboard (depending on build) you might have Pyroclasm, Chaos Warp, Firespout, etc. in addition to the "ramp up and hard-cast Titan" (not as hard as you'd think) plan.

EDIT: While Teeg is really bad, the deck can play through both Thalia and Canonist pretty well (not that both aren't annoying or anything).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KobeBryan

How do you guys deal with a turn 2 gaddock teeg?

---

3x Magma Jet, 1x Karakas main.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

Game one if you don't have Inferno Titan you just kind of lose. Postboard (depending on build) you might have Pyroclasm, Chaos Warp, Firespout, etc. in addition to the "ramp up and hard-cast Titan" (not as hard as you'd think) plan.

EDIT: While Teeg is really bad, the deck can play through both Thalia and Canonist pretty well (not that both aren't annoying or anything).

---

Yea. I'm not too worried about Canonist and Thalia. The deck seems to have enough lands to fight through Thalia. Canonist is canonist. I don't know why anyone would board it in against this deck anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KobeBryan

Yea. I'm not too worried about Canonist and Thalia. The deck seems to have enough lands to fight through Thalia. Canonist is canonist. I don't know why anyone would board it in against this deck anyways.

---

Canonist shuts down seething songs, but that's all about her. I think that she can be sided in if the opponent doesn't have anything better between side and main.

What's your answer to "Humility" and/or "Ensnaring Bridge"? Only Pyromancy?

And also.. better Firespout or pyroclasm?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glimpse70

What's your answer to "Humility" and/or "Ensnaring Bridge"? Only Pyromancy?

And also.. better Firespout or pyroclasm?

---

Hi every one,

I play 1 pyromancy main and other one on sideboard, the other way to delete humility and ensaring bridge is chaos warp. i play 2 too.

About what is better between pyroclasm or firespout, i prefer pyroclasm and normaly all people play it. i used to play 2 pyroclasm and 1 volcanic fallout but i think i ll change to 3 pyroclasm.

regards
joy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joylusa

Hi every one,

I play 1 pyromancy main and other one on sideboard, the other way to delete humility and ensaring bridge is chaos warp. i play 2 too.

About what is better between pyroclasm or firespout, i prefer pyroclasm and normaly all people play it. i used to play 2 pyroclasm and 1 volcanic fallout but i think i ll change to 3 pyroclasm.

regards
joy

---

2x chaos warp in side, right?

what about "Anger of the Gods"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glimpse70

2x chaos warp in side, right?

what about "Anger of the Gods"?

---

Depends of what deck list im playing. i have played 2 warp on main and other times side.

anger of gods is like slag storm and it can works is some cases but i prefer to play pyroclasm. in my opinion is quite better but is just an opinion XD

Guys, been thinking about changing something up in my board and looking for opinions. I'm planning to cut pyroclasm for Earthquake (Rolling Earthquake in a perfect world). It still solves the problem of dealing with x/1s for CMC=2, but it could also be used to take out bigger targets, or finish someone off after an emrakul swing. What do you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hdeck12

Guys, been thinking about changing something up in my board and looking for opinions. I'm planning to cut pyroclasm for Earthquake (Rolling Earthquake in a perfect world). It still solves the problem of dealing with x/1s for CMC=2, but it could also be used to take out bigger targets, or finish someone off after an emrakul swing. What do you think?

---

I don't know, earthquake doesn't kill flipped delver and vendilion but what bothers me is the extra mana you need for killing x/2 creatures and, most of all, that it cannot be played to kill Gaddock. Moreover it can be used as a win condition only if you are above your opponent life points.
Rolling earthquake is definitelly more appealing.

However a couple of days ago I was thinking about playing a fireball as an additional win condition, so you maybe right.

In all cases I think it's defintely something to test.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingtk3

I don't know, earthquake doesn't kill flipped delver and vendilion but what bothers me is the extra mana you need for killing x/2 creatures and, most of all, that it cannot be played to kill Gaddock. Moreover it can be used as a win condition only if you are above your opponent life points.
Rolling earthquake is definitelly more appealing.

However a couple of days ago I was thinking about playing a fireball as an additional win condition, so you maybe right.

In all cases I think it's defintely something to test.

---

Boooo, I completely forgot about the Teeg part. I think that alone is enough to keep pyroclasm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingtk3

I don't know, earthquake doesn't kill flipped delver and vendilion but what bothers me is the extra mana you need for killing x/2 creatures and, most of all, that it cannot be played to kill Gaddock. Moreover it can be used as a win condition only if you are above your opponent life points.
Rolling earthquake is definitelly more appealing.

However a couple of days ago I was thinking about playing a fireball as an additional win condition, so you maybe right.

In all cases I think it's defintely something to test.

---

Fireball isn't a bad choice imo. Banefire might me a better one maybe?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kid

Fireball isn't a bad choice imo. Banefire might me a better one maybe?

---

Bonfire of the Damned :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koby

Bonfire of the Damned :cool:

---

i think best cards against tegg are pyroclasms and our lovely titans
bonfire of tha Damned is a powerfull card but if we wanna use it as a win condition is necesary to play back again SDT no?