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The deck gets hurt by drawing conditional cards like into the north when you aleeady have depths out. So i think what is goong to hppen is yhat i am going to cit all the conditional cards like into the north, exploration, and mox diamond and just pack the deck woth protection and card draw. The result will be very similar to adrieng's list. The issue i see from there is that the deck is now slower but more protected. The slower it gets, the weaker it is against combo and creature decks.
I don't play Into the North, but am looking into Living Wish again: as a way to protect the combo (too much Surgical Extractions and the like in my meta), but also as way to get a alternative wincon. Yes it is slow, but that why indeed I'm playing more protection. I'm still in doubt about Living Wish, but will experiment with it. I'm also in doubt about Sylvan Library, but I do believe it should be put in this deck (perhaps as a two-of)
I will return to the drawingboard!
Finished first on 32 player yesterday went 5-0. I beat Bug delver 2-0, gob 2-0, URdelver 2-1, RUG delver 2-1, omni show 2-1.
Same deck with -1 loam +1 srying same side with -1 seize +1 sage.
Quite happy with everything.
Love the list. A few questions: any reason for Copperline over Taiga, and Ghost Quarter over Wasteland?Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
submerge and pithing needle respectivelyQuote:
Originally Posted by TLK
Ah, that's genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
How necessary is the full set of Libraries?
you definitely wants the four against everything that plays swords to plownshare, and every thing that is controllish
it plays both role of protecting marit lage and accelerating into the combo.
Without the set you will have more chance to lose to miracle/death and taxes/stoneblade/ and combo decks such as ant/show and tell/poison
where life loss doesn't matter so much. It is way better than not of this world by example, which plays only a single role and which is dead in more many matchups.
I wouldn't cut any in the main, after side I sometimes cut some.
Looking at the sideboard strategy you posted above, it looks like you don't side them out often, and if you do, it's typically only 1. I agree that Not of this World is a bit too conditional and unnecessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
If you expect blood moon against UR delver you can cut three library and add three sage ;
I also mentionned that I cut the lftl of the main for one scrying and added a reclamation sage in side for a thoughtseize.
Awesome, thanks so much for your replies. I used to do pretty well with Junk Depths for years prior to the printing of Stage, and have been meaning to give it another try. Your deck really caught my eye so I'm excited to sleeve it up. Unfortunately I sold my Depths when I stopped playing Junk and now they're quite a bit more expensive. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
Hi Adrieng, I am going to play your list at the Prague Eternal next week (~200 players). I have couple of questions:
How is the Gemstone Mine doing in long-term? Aren't 3 counters too few? (I don't owe any so I play City of Brass instead, but lifeloss from City and MAna Confluence seems to be too much sometimes)
What is the reason behind the Reclamation Sage? Isn't Krosan Grip strictly better? Blood Moon decks usually pack some amount of counterspells and K.Grip garants breaking from the lock eot and comboing out.
I do not owe 4th library. Is 3/1 Sylvan/Sensei Top split ok in your opinion?
3 copies of Ancient Grudge is a metagame call or does it have a deeper reason?
Did you try Tabernacle at the Pendre Vale? It seems like a huge blowout against Pyromancer decks or Elves to me.
I know I have lot of questions but I will be glad for answering all of them.
I can speak to the last point from experience playing Tabernacle against Elves. It really doesn't do much since they have Cradle and Priest of Tatania to pay every turn. Against Delver, though, you're absolutely correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lio
With urborg, tomb you don't remove the counters any longer when you tap for black, same thing like mana confluence+tomb (no lfe loss).Quote:
How is the Gemstone Mine doing in long-term? Aren't 3 counters too few? (I don't owe any so I play City of Brass instead, but lifeloss from City and MAna Confluence seems to be too much sometimes)
So you usually have time to crop it or find a urborg, tomb or ghost quarter it to find a forest before removing the last counter, and I play only two to avoid having 2 mine which can be problematic.
I also bring sage for omni-show which see a lot of plays in my meta, but sage are also good against burn/painter/miracle/death and taxes where it kill things like eidolon/vortex/bridge and bloquing Goblin guide ; they are quite goodQuote:
What is the reason behind the Reclamation Sage? Isn't Krosan Grip strictly better? Blood Moon decks usually pack some amount of counterspells and K.Grip garants breaking from the lock eot and comboing out.
at stopping painter's clock, and with a vampire against miracle you force them to terminus the board avoiding the token to die ; quite good against death and taxes at killing spirit of the labyrinth which block sylvan library's plan
still killing things like vial/revoker/jitte/batterskull with a 2/1 body.
To avoid counters you have also 2 pyro/1 reb and 6 ways of killing blood moon (3 ratchet bomb+3 sage) and discard to avoid them to play it, I can still lose to it sometimes ; but I prefer a card which I bring in more matchups that something which is very specific.
Grudge are awesome against a lot of decks, you can see in my sideboard plan I really often bring them :Quote:
3 copies of Ancient Grudge is a metagame call or does it have a deeper reason?
-against miracle (avoiding terminus/shuffling top resp to fetch)
-death and taxes/patriot/stoneblade cutting all their clock and making TNN a vanilla elephant which is important cause Maze does nothing against it and answering a random needle (cause I don't bring bomb here)
-painter/mud/affinity for obvious reasons
-12 post killing map/needle/candelabra
-reanimator killing needle (they often have 3 in UB reanimator)
-burn if you expect bridge and you have dead cards anyway
Didn't try it I don't own any so maybe it is good option. But against elf they have cradle anyway other way might be good against UR delver.Quote:
Did you try Tabernacle at the Pendre Vale? It seems like a huge blowout against Pyromancer decks or Elves to me
Might be an ok split if you don't own any, though I still think 4th library is better against swords.deck and top is very slow.Quote:
I do not owe 4th library. Is 3/1 Sylvan/Sensei Top split ok in your opinion?
Something like into the north if you already play the 4 sylvan scrying/map might be better.
Nice that the deck will see some play !Quote:
I am going to play your list at the Prague Eternal next week
So I found this list online today. Seems okay and it top 8ed an event:
Creatures [4]
4 Vampire Hexmage
Instants [12]
4 Crop Rotation
4 Dark Ritual
4 Not of This World
Sorceries [19]
2 Into the North
2 Life from the Loam
2 Unearth
3 Duress
3 Rite of Consumption
3 Thoughtseize
4 Gitaxian Probe
Artifacts [4]
4 Lotus Petal
Lands [21]
1 Mana Confluence
1 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Petrified Field
3 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Dark Depths
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Thespian's Stage
Sideboard
4 Silence
4 Hex Parasite
4 Vexing Shusher
2 Go for the Throat
1 Sudden Spoiling
Budget things pop out, like Overgrown Tomv over Bayou. But this list looks pretty cool.
Sleeved up adrieng's list from the bottom of the last page, making the change he made (dropping the maindeck Loam and adding the 4th Scrying). I also substituted a Tabernacle for the singleton Snow-Covered Forest. I made a few changes to the side, fitting in a Karakas and some graveyard hate specific to my meta.
I'm excited to get some games in!
You should keep one basic forest against moon effect and to fetch it with Ghost quarter just cut one Duress for the tabernacle.
It is very important you have 4 expedtition map which are colorless to fetch it and then you can cast reclamation sage.
I think optimal list would be -1 duress -1 scrying (the 4th one) +1 maze +1 tabernacle.
I am testing right now with three maze (cause I don't have access to the tabernacle).
I have found that I often tutor for maze to slow down opponent and I feel that having one already in hand is better.
Have been testing choke but didn't like them they are too expensive at 3CC maybe a one off in sb in the place of the duress but not sure.
Have been testing against the new UR delver list and it is a very good matchup, you can not loose a 2/3 match (or with very bad luck).
Good call. I like the idea of a second Maze. Any reason for the Snow-Covered Forest over a regular Forest?
My LGS has weekly Legacy tournaments so as soon as I have all the cards I'm going to be playing this.
There was the reason when I played into the north, but no reason any more. Play a forest if you want it doesn't matter.Quote:
Good call. I like the idea of a second Maze. Any reason for the Snow-Covered Forest over a regular Forest?
You'll certainly do well at your local. Have fun and tell us how it worked for you !
Okay I figured it had something to do with Into the North.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
Can't wait to play this! I'll report back when I log some matches!
Go take prague with depths