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I just found an interesting mono red counter to Engineered Plague: Gauntlet of Might. Sounds silly (and awesome), but no more so than Dralnu's Crusade or Nevinyrral's Disk. Thoughts?
Tacosnape, what ever happened with the Dryad Arbor version you were trying? Turned out to be bad?
Gauntlet might be worth while in a version running Tombs for acceleration as it'll be able to play it more consistantly and possibly sooner, and alleviate any stress caused by Tomb since your mountains all turn into a 2-mana land. Drawbacks I could see are the fact that it is a 4 mana artifact, making it a tad slow and vulnerable to common removal. Not to mention it's price, as an ABU card it's gunna run you probably 50 or 60 a rip if not a little more.
I still feel that the +1/+1 answers aren't as good as a flat removal effect, but they certainly help, and this one is a surprise option, even if an expensive one.
Obviously enough; it's only worth considering for versions without any of those available (black splash or none at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by CorruptedAngel
Incidentally, the list I was looking at while suggesting it does have Tombs in it.
Yep. Dryad Arbor blows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
Also, Black-splash should just run a third-color red dual and run Engineered Explosives. It and Therapy are usually enough to handle Plague. As for mono-colored, I'd just run 4 Kings.
I strongly suggest Patron and Goons over 4 Kings since those Kings aren't gonna be enough and they'll end up dead draws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I'll take your word for it. Fortunately I don't run Mono-Red and don't see any reason to with Tin-Street and Krosan Grip being as amazing as they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
Hello, i wanna play at a tournament next weekend and before this i will post my list here so u can give me soome useful tips. After the tourney i will describe my expieriences and the result.
THe meta is very difficult because every deck can be there,but i think there will be a lot of random aggro decks and grow/fish decks. The only thing i can say that there won`t be more than 1 combo deck.
Here`s the list:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
3 [MI] Mountain (1)
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [B] Taiga
4 [B] Plateau
// Creatures
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
2 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
3 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [AT] Goblin Matron
3 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
1 [ON] Goblin Pyromancer
1 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [B] Swords to Plowshares
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
SB: 4 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 4 [AL] Pyrokinesis
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
Do you think i should play SHared Triumph over Krosan Grip? I mean it beats Pyroclasm and Massacre as well as Plague and it won`t be dead.
What do you think?
Greetings,
NQn
PS: Sorry for my bad english, i am at least 16 ;)
Krosan Grip answers stuff like Moat and Solitary Confinement, as well as Jitte and SoFI whish are nasty cards for gobs to face. I also think you need REBs or Pyroblasts in you sideboard to deal with those fish/gro decks you expect to play.
No love for Tranquil Domain? I'm not reading 100 pages of forum to confirm this or not, but it seems much better than some of the answers I've seen so far.
I'm presently playing 2 Tranquil Domains and 3 Krosan Grips in my anti-Plague/enchantment slots, so yes, some play them. The slot is a bit sketchy though as Patron is usually a better answer to the actual plague as it has the tendency to deadify your opponent very fast, while Domain forces you to continue from where you left off. Against other decks such as Enchantress and base-white control, Domain is incredible and since it does a servicable job against Plagues too, which is the reason I'm playing it over Patron at the present. I wouldn't even consider actually replacing Grip with Domain though, since Grip has the ability to take out critical artifacts at the critical time while allowing removing Plagues through counters, which is always valuable. It's also a way to solve a billion random problems which are bound to show up during a tournament.
// Lands
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [TE] Wasteland
2 [B] Taiga
3 [B] Badlands
5 [MI] Mountain (1)
// Creatures
3 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
2 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [7E] Goblin Matron
3 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
// Spells
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [DS] AEther Vial
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [US] Duress
SB: 4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 [IA] Anarchy
SB: 1 [TO] Chainer's Edict
SB: 1 [TE] Perish
SB: 1 [MM] Cave-In
SB: 1 [PT] Boiling Seas
SB: 1 [SH] Ruination
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [FUT] Bitter Ordeal
Bitter Ordeal is probably the worst slot ever for the Sideboard.
I love the deck so far. It answers combo, Thresh, and Plagues so well. I wouldnt go so far and say Burning Wish sucks, from my short testing so far, I must say I love it.
A Land Grant seems like it would be a fantastic slot in that sideboard. It'll get you your Taiga for turn 3 with a Red-Land / Wasteland (Or any 2-land) hand so you can drop out a Warchief next turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
That's not a bad idea... here's my SB so far...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
1 Land Grant
1 Patriach's Bidding
1 Reverent Silence
1 Boiling Seas
1 Anarchy
1 Ruination
1 Perish
1 Pyroclasm
1 Cave-In
1 Shattering Spree
1 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
Simply put, the silver bullets in this deck are amazing....
Right now, I'm trying to fit Regrowth into the SB so that the 2nd Wish will become another threat.
Best play of the day; I wished for Cave-In against CRET Belcher after they EtW for 12 tokens...
I used to run the Burning Wish variant also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
Tsunami's a better choice than Boiling Seas. This will keep your Island-breaker from being countered by Blue Elemental Blast. Granted, they might blast the Burning Wish, but they might be tapped out when you Wish, and if they're blasting Wishes, you can use Wish simply to bait the Blasts.
I ran Virtue's Ruin, but in hindsight, Anarchy would be the better choice.
Regrowth is not a bad choice either. Regrowth brings back Ringleaders, Wastelands, or whatever bomb you spent your first Burning Wish for.
I also don't know that between Wasteland and Port (Although I see you aren't -running- port, which changes things) if you'd need Ruination. I'd be tempted to make that another Duress.
Sometimes it's hard keeping a Green source open after you cast Wish. Besides, I think Boiling Seas puts less strain on the mana base. I might consider having Tsunami in a Threshold heavy metagame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Personally, I think that warrants some testing.Quote:
Regrowth is not a bad choice either. Regrowth brings back Ringleaders, Wastelands, or whatever bomb you spent your first Burning Wish for.
Quote:
I also don't know that between Wasteland and Port (Although I see you aren't -running- port, which changes things) if you'd need Ruination. I'd be tempted to make that another Duress.
Port might be better than Wasteland, but Wasteland is proactive. I cant judge really.
Hello.
I'm new on this forum, and my english isn't very good. I haven't enough time to read all the pages of this topic (also cause my english isn't very good), so i ask soms questions, and sorry if they already have been asked or something.
My 1st question, why you play the Burning Wish? In my opinion, they arent good in this deck (but maybe that's cause i come from Europe, and here is the meta more Aggro/Aggro-control) VS which decks the Wishes are good? (i mean the card wich you search with the Wish? So i can look if it's my Meta, why i think they aren't good.
Then my second quesion, why most of you play Tin-Street Hooligan, instead of Goblin Tinkerer, if you have a Goblin Warchief, you can't use the Hooligan to destroy a Arti/Enchantment, and the Tinkerer just become better. Warchief is a goblin that you want to play (almost) each game, so i think Tinkerer is better, cause he has a good sinergy whit a goblin you (almost) always want to play, why should you play a goblin that doesnt work good what Goblin Warchief? Tinkerer can also destroy more artifacts sometimes, Hooligan always only 1 and sometimes 0.
Than the 3th: why most people here dont play white? of is that because of America hasn't very much aggro decks? and that here in Europe, you need them harder? (i don't know the American meta very good, o only know that in America they play more combo (solidarity especially).
Ok, the list i play at the moment:
Creatures (31)
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
Other spells (7)
4 Aether Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares
Land (22)
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Plateau
4 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Jotün Grunt
3 Disenchant
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Slots
This is a good list in my Meta, the random Sharphooter kills very many decks (the most combo decks being played play EtW, and very mane players play Aggro) and you can shoot much damaga on a player when creatures die when they attack/block/been sacced for damage ore whatever... In this meta, he is Really good, so please dont say that i have to cut him, that is because of the difference in Meta's.
Also the Kiki is a card not everyone plays here, it dont want to cut him, he is late game a killer, almost every goblin in the deck is good to copie.
But 1 thing 1 want to change about my build, i want to splash green, but keep the white slpash, so play R/g/w. I think about this list:
Creatures (31)
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
Other spells (7)
4 Aether Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares
Land (22)
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
3 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Jotün Grunt
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Krosan Grip
2 Tranquil Domain
I havent tested this list, its something i have made now very fast, but i am going to test it, maybe someone has soms tips? Before i am going to test it (tips for an aggro/aggro-control meta please) cause i think much things can be better....
Sorry for my Bad english, hope everything is good enough to read.
~Jip
Well, Solidarity has waned in the US quite a long time ago and the combo-presence is largely Belcher, Storm-combo and apparently Cephalid Breakfast now. People play aggro here too, but Rg players are confident that we can beat aggro-decks without Swords to Plowshares and we'd just rather draw more Goblins for Gempalm Incinerators and attacking.
Tin Street Hooligan destroys problem artifacts (Jitte, Sword of Fire and Ice, Aether Vial, etc.) and can help the mana denial plan too. We don't play Tinkerer, because Goblin Warchief is the first target for many players with their kill-spells and so you can't trust on having a Warchief active. It dies too much to rely on, and without Warchief, Tin Street is vastly superior as it doesn't die before it gets to use its ability (in the mirror, opponent can kill your Tinkerer and win because of his Vial, Tin Street kills the Vial when he comes into play so no such problems). Tin Street also has a nice power for beatdown when not killing artifacts.
The reason most players here prefer Rg to Rw is that we don't fear creature-decks and believe the core of the deck is strong enough against those as it stands, and the problems the deck does have (artifacts, enchantments) are better solved with green than white. Neither does much against combo and I think a case can be made for white too, but green is great if you're a strong player as it gives you the tools to win most games without mising, just by playing your tutors and draw in a smart fashion.
Rgw is possible, for one reason: Ray of Revelation. It's the only real reason to splash both colours and it gives you a very powerful answer to Plagues and other decks with strong enchantments (Humility, Moat, Elephant Grass, etc.), and an answer that doesn't mind being discarded either.
Kiki-jiki is too bad to play: Siege-Gang Commander is always better. If you want Kiki over Siege, you're going for an overkill. If opponent Wraths, you'll always want Siege-Gang Commander. On an empty board, to come back, you need Siege-Gang Commander (opponent can kill the Commander itself and still be left dealing with 3 tokens). Also, Commander is a way to kill opponents that prevent attacking, which is very important in a world of Moats, Orim's Chants, Ghostly Prisons, Maze of Iths, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vales and company. You should never play Kiki until you've got 4 Siege-Gang Commanders in your deck, they fit the same slot and Siege-Gang Commander does everything better except overkilling.
Agreed on Ray of Revelation. I'm glad someone else finally realizes how ridiculous that card is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
RGW offers access to other cards as well, though. Engineered Explosives and Orim's Chant are mentioned periodically, but I think a very overlooked possibility is Armageddon. With Landstill and other control decks on the rise and the ever annoying 43 Land continuing to poke around from time to time, this seems like as good a time as any to re-explore the Geddonator.
I think every one should play 1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker because of his awesomnes!
This guy gives you so much against control! This goblin lets use you your best CIP every turn and you could make the funny piledrivertrick for the win!
OR you could play Siege-Gang Commander if you wanted a good card instead. All up to you though, I'm not forcing anything down your throat. Seriously, against control, you'll get sweeped. After a sweeper, Kiki is a 2/2 Haste. Siege-Gang is a 5/5 'ping your face for lots' for the same cost. Seriously, if you can actually benefit of Kiki against control over having Siege-Gang Commander in the same slot, you're doing something wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu
Siege-Gang wins against:
Sweepers
Attack-stoppers
Blockers
Lifegain Removal
Early game with Lackey breakthrough
Kiki wins against:
Blockers
(Attack-stoppers (copying Mogg Fanatic FTW))
Early game with Lackey breakthrough
Seriously, Siege-Gang does so many more things so much better it's not even funny. Kiki is also prone to dying to removal or having the to-be-copied creature removed thus doing absolutely nothing for his price. Do the smart thing. Play Siege-Gang Commander #3/#4 over Kiki-Jiki.