Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
After editing this post:
I really like some of the changes der mentions and I think they should be implemented in his personal 4 c list "along with wasteland"
I think one of the major problems his list has is the mere fact that there ARE too many colorless lands. I don't EVER want 2 colorless sources in my opening hand and I don't want 2 additional lands in place of spells.
Dropping academy ruins scares me a bit as it gives you inevtiability, which is something I really really like.
Changing wasteland for dustbowl seems like it works sometimes and doesnt in others. I do like the fact that it stabilizes early landstill drops because of the lack of fear under a landstill of opposing manlands.
I do not like adding ponder into the mix, but I can see how it would work well. I think if you drop two slots for a draw spell it should be a third cunning wish and 1 more 1-2 drop removal spell, but targeted removal.
As for alternate choices I havent seen anything for unmake as opposed to slaughter pact discussion, and I'd really like to see the pros and cons. I still think slaughter pact is for the most part better, but the added STP RFG ability might actually be worth it, and also the general fact that you cant lose for not paying for it.
I am probobly going to catch some heat for mentioning the losing thing, but I do feel it deserves discussion.
Overall my problems with this deck have always been lack of advantage or tech against decks like
RDW
Dragonstompy
This is a problem as I c and maybe adding a 3rd wish might bring a little more stability in atleast the rdw matchup as it will bring the consistency up. The question is how much and is it worth it?
On second thought about the 1-2 drop removal spell, maybe it might be better as a 1 of sensei's devining top? Ill test and discuss if anyone is up for it.
For now I would really like to see a revised list from der as it looks like hes been busy correcting the landbase.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
The matchup that's giving me the most trouble is Aggro Loam. It's everywhere in France. I don't know how to sideboard well against it. I run 4 extirpate and 3 BEB sideboard and usually end up siding out standstill, cunning wish and 1 deed. for them.* I find wish to be too slow in this MU. Extirpate isn't even so great because i need at least two, one for wasteland and one for either loam or wish or whatever is good.
*I do agree about 4 deeds sometimes being overkill but then again there are also games where i just need two.
I recently bought a dust bowl for 50 cents and have been testing it instead of wasteland. I have to admit it exceeded my expectations greatly. I run two crucibles and it's pretty brutal. I still want to test it more because i'm not sure what i like better, but it's working out pretty well.
One change i haven't adopted is cutting Nantuko Monastery. Even with 2 decree i still find monastery to be useful.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frenger
The matchup that's giving me the most trouble is Aggro Loam. It's everywhere in France. I don't know how to sideboard well against it. I run 4 extirpate and 3 BEB sideboard and usually end up siding out standstill, cunning wish and 1 deed. for them.* I find wish to be too slow in this MU. Extirpate isn't even so great because i need at least two, one for wasteland and one for either loam or wish or whatever is good.
Aggro loam, hm which version. In my testing aggro loam was never a problem but things could have changed obv. Extirpate wasteland? I would extirpate burning wish via counter it then pate it and extirpate loam, wasteland as a four of can cause problems but you run just as many lands as they do and honestly if your carefull and not loose all your momentum but tapping out at the wrong time I dont see this matchup as difficult at all.
Can you provide a list and prove me wrong please. Thanx.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frenger
*I do agree about 4 deeds sometimes being overkill but then again there are also games where i just need two.
I'm talking specificly about der's modified list when I say 3 deed. I always fealt in tournaments that the second or third deed was almost always dead if drawn back to back, something I do not like at all. Now drawing 2 in a game sometimes 3 is not always bad, but drawing them back to back has always hurt me almost every time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frenger
I recently bought a dust bowl for 50 cents and have been testing it instead of wasteland. I have to admit it exceeded my expectations greatly. I run two crucibles and it's pretty brutal. I still want to test it more because i'm not sure what i like better, but it's working out pretty well.
I would say theoreticly it can be tech in longer games or games where you need to hold down a standstill and force your opponent to break it, like matchups via they have manlands, other then that I think its kind of slow and almost inferior to just running wasteland and getting random wastelocks. But who knows I could be completely wrong and im speaking out my butt. One thing if you are running green in your model you should consider switching to 1 loam 1 crucible as crucible offers you the ability to go into land mode where you can dredge and then just play your land via crucible, instead of sitting with a dead card in hand. LFTL is also great in the discard matchups because you can discard lands and then pick them up again or just get randomly lucky and have them hymn you for 2- lands and get them back, bottom line it keeps your land advantage for the exchange of 2 mana, to me thats worth it. I didn't explain that right bleh. Ill edit this in a while.
One change i haven't adopted is cutting Nantuko Monastery. Even with 2 decree i still find monastery to be useful.[/QUOTE]
Monestary IS good, but its intensive and if you are running mishras there is no reason for another manland unless your 43land.dec. more win conditions = less control elements, and 9x out of 10 the point of landstill is to pummel your opponent with control until they are left with crap, then continue to control as you slow roll them to victory, under a standstill I might add.
2 decree, 1 dragon, 3 mishras should be more then enough as your basicly mono blue control "they have 3 win cons" but you have better removal and more consistent answers to unfavorable matchups.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
Aggro loam, hm which version. In my testing aggro loam was never a problem but things could have changed obv. Extirpate wasteland? I would extirpate burning wish via counter it then pate it and extirpate loam, wasteland as a four of can cause problems but you run just as many lands as they do and honestly if your carefull and not loose all your momentum but tapping out at the wrong time I dont see this matchup as difficult at all.
Can you provide a list and prove me wrong please. Thanx.
Every version see's play here. The one with just Vore Crusher and goyf, then the version with those guys and mongrel, then theres a version that doesnt play crusher and plays kird ape and mongoose.
Extirpate wasteland allows you to stay alive, but then you have to extirpate burning wish/LftL in order to stop them.
I don't have lists, but just look in the aggro loam thread, theyre pretty basic.
Quote:
I'm talking specificly about der's modified list when I say 3 deed. I always fealt in tournaments that the second or third deed was almost always dead if drawn back to back, something I do not like at all. Now drawing 2 in a game sometimes 3 is not always bad, but drawing them back to back has always hurt me almost every time.
I definitely aggre with you here. I do find myself shuffling the second deed away with bstorm and fetch/dragon a lot. I don't think i'll cut it yet though.
Quote:
I would say theoreticly it can be tech in longer games or games where you need to hold down a standstill and force your opponent to break it, like matchups via they have manlands, other then that I think its kind of slow and almost inferior to just running wasteland and getting random wastelocks. But who knows I could be completely wrong and im speaking out my butt.
Look about a page back, I said the exact same thing. I suggest you play a few games with friends and pretend your waste was a dust bowl. The advantage of it in the late game is pretty good. It locks with crucible just like waste does, but you just need 3 mana.
Quote:
One thing if you are running green in your model you should consider switching to 1 loam 1 crucible as crucible offers you the ability to go into land mode where you can dredge and then just play your land via crucible, instead of sitting with a dead card in hand. LFTL is also great in the discard matchups because you can discard lands and then pick them up again or just get randomly lucky and have them hymn you for 2- lands and get them back, bottom line it keeps your land advantage for the exchange of 2 mana, to me thats worth it. I didn't explain that right bleh. Ill edit this in a while.
Yeah what? How is what you said different than what crucible does?
Quote:
Monestary IS good, but its intensive and if you are running mishras there is no reason for another manland unless your 43land.dec. more win conditions = less control elements, and 9x out of 10 the point of landstill is to pummel your opponent with control until they are left with crap, then continue to control as you slow roll them to victory, under a standstill I might add.
2 decree, 1 dragon, 3 mishras should be more then enough as your basicly mono blue control "they have 3 win cons" but you have better removal and more consistent answers to unfavorable matchups.
I like using monastery because i find that sometimes i just need a bigger creature. I find the monastery taking out blockers all the time. I especially love it when people forget he has first strike.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frenger
Every version see's play here. The one with just Vore Crusher and goyf, then the version with those guys and mongrel, then theres a version that doesnt play crusher and plays kird ape and mongoose.
Extirpate wasteland allows you to stay alive, but then you have to extirpate burning wish/LftL in order to stop them.
I don't have lists, but just look in the aggro loam thread, theyre pretty basic.
I definitely aggre with you here. I do find myself shuffling the second deed away with bstorm and fetch/dragon a lot. I don't think i'll cut it yet though.
Look about a page back, I said the exact same thing. I suggest you play a few games with friends and pretend your waste was a dust bowl. The advantage of it in the late game is pretty good. It locks with crucible just like waste does, but you just need 3 mana.
Yeah what? How is what you said different than what crucible does?
I like using monastery because i find that sometimes i just need a bigger creature. I find the monastery taking out blockers all the time. I especially love it when people forget he has first strike.
To clear up the 1-1 split thoughts. If you have 2 crucibles playing both is absolutely not neccesary, because the second is a dead card.
Where as if you have 1 Life from the loam and 1 crucible neither are dead cards because you can dredge 3 deep into your library if needed maybe searching for another mishra's or the dustbowl, and then use crucible to play it. They have synergy together is what im saying vs 2 crucible that do not.
One thing I will say is I have crappy reasonings, but from experiance the 1-1 split is soo much better because:
*If you get both one is not a dead card.
*In matches where you need to mantain your hand size to get around hand disruption having the random 1 LFTL works more often then not. And from experiance it makes the mathup just generally easier.
Having a 1-1 split means no extirpating away your land recursion unless they are willing to spend multiple extirpates to do so.
Once again my reasonings probobly suck, but we had a discussion about this about 4 months ago in the old landstill model and der and peers convinced me to try it and i've never gone back since.
I definitely agree with you here. I do find myself shuffling the second deed away with bstorm and fetch/dragon a lot. I don't think i'll cut it yet though.
Right now I with der's list im testing taking out the landbase der purposed for another model in place of the current one im using.
Basicly I just cutt academy ruins, mishra's factory, wasteland
for dustbowl, sensei's devining top, and an additional wish. Heres what I have currently:
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [UNH] Island
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [B] Scrubland
1 [B] Savannah
1 [B] Tropical Island
2 [B] Underground Sea
4 [B] Tundra
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
// Creatures
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon
// Spells
2 [TE] Humility
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AP] Pernicious Deed
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [B] Counterspell
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [RAV] Seed Spark
I would like to really like to ask people to test a 3rd with and maybe 1 top and see what they think. I feel the third wish has been everything ive wanted, and I would really like to know why not a third wish. I usually want a gaurenteed 1-2 a game, and with 2 slots your likely not going to see 1 every game.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Wow, i had never thought about how LftL makes it never be a dead card as opposed to two crucibles. I really like that idea. I'm going to test a 1-1 split from now on and see how it goes.
I definitely don't want to cut academy ruins. I run one tormods crypt side (fetchable with wish->e tutor post board) and recursive crypt helps me alot with ichorid and aggro loam.
Recursive EE is also really good, but that goes without saying.
I might be missing something here, but what's the deal with the singleton top? Can you fetch it or is it just there to be good when you randomly draw it?
This is my list:
Land [25]
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Dust Bowl
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Nantuko Monastery
Instants [18]
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Cunning Wish
Sorceries [3]
2 Decree of Justice
1 Life from the Loam
Creatures [1]
1 Eternal Dragon
Enchantments [10]
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Standstill
2 Humility
Artifacts [3]
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard [15]
4 Meddling Mage
4 Extirpate
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Seed Spark
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Tormod's Crypt
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frenger
Wow, i had never thought about how LftL makes it never be a dead card as opposed to two crucibles. I really like that idea. I'm going to test a 1-1 split from now on and see how it goes.
I definitely don't want to cut academy ruins. I run one tormods crypt side (fetchable with wish->e tutor post board) and recursive crypt helps me alot with ichorid and aggro loam.
Recursive EE is also really good, but that goes without saying.
I might be missing something here, but what's the deal with the singleton top? Can you fetch it or is it just there to be good when you randomly draw it?
This is my list:
Land [25]
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Dust Bowl
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Nantuko Monastery
Instants [18]
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Cunning Wish
Sorceries [3]
2 Decree of Justice
1 Life from the Loam
Creatures [1]
1 Eternal Dragon
Enchantments [10]
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Standstill
2 Humility
Artifacts [3]
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard [15]
4 Meddling Mage
4 Extirpate
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Seed Spark
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Tormod's Crypt
The singleton top is just for random testing. So far its been decent, giving me additional answers because we don't always draw according to game plan. And it also allows you to shuffle the crap up when your top 3 look like crap via fetch. The only negative I can see is that it wouldnt be worth its weight for the cost or the consistency of the deck. But I think all it will take is that one top decked force of will or cunning wish to make me a believer.
I noticed that you have a team going. How does your team work? Are you looking for new people??
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Does Raven's Crime have any place in the list? The ability to toss a land for B to make them discard without causing any card disadvantage to you (with active loam/Crux) seems a decent choice for at least some builds, doesn't it? Just curious. I'm guessing you guys have beat this one to death, just curious as to what the final say on the matter is.
Thx, and Pce,
--DC
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I have not talked about it with anyone else yet, but in my opinion no.
Reasoning: Landstill generally runs 2 land recursion cards and 80% of the time its going to be double crucible of worlds, which has 0 synergy with ravens crimes.
The other 20% of the time you get a 1-1 split with LFTL which im sure is what your argument would be as that has the absolutely best synergy; however, that said your attempting to get 1 card in the deck to influence another one card, early because thats when they fit best is early game. The answer is no.
In a deck like 43.dec if they tuned their mana base towards it or aggro loam it might be playable in, but otherwise it just doesnt work. Not only do you have to have 4 lftl in your deck but you also have to get it early for true effectiveness.
While I appreciate the thought and creativety, it just simply will not work in a deck like landstill. The goal of landstill is to mass a superior ammount of resources and mantain a tight control over everything, this doesnt do that for you.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
To kind of add more to mossivo, landstill needs to drop a land atleast the first 4 turns and by losing a land it could force this deck into a mana screw, now the card would be cool late game because of the extra land drawn in long games but by this time, I would rather have a counterspell. As mossivo said, maybe in aggroloam, but not landstill.
If you don't believe us, try it and tell us how it goes, maybe a tourny report will change our minds.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
landstill101
To kind of add more to mossivo, landstill needs to drop a land atleast the first 4 turns and by losing a land it could force this deck into a mana screw, now the card would be cool late game because of the extra land drawn in long games but by this time, I would rather have a counterspell. As mossivo said, maybe in aggroloam, but not landstill.
If you don't believe us, try it and tell us how it goes, maybe a tourny report will change our minds.
Thanx, whenever I write on here late at night I always feel like my explanations are crappy.
On another note I have been testing sense's devining top as a one of, and I must say I am impressed. Not only has it been smoothing out my draws and giving me enough information to really keep the game in control on my side, but its acting "this may sound dumb" like a fifth brainstorm. It seems to have alot of solid synergies with the deck like topping at your opponents eot step into a large decree of juctice which you then cycle and get your top back in hand. This makes me exceedingly happy to not have to use my draw step on top! :) I also tend to use top instead of brainstorm which to me makes ALOT of sense as you procede through the game, building up your hand and not having to waste your draw spells, which generally is fantastic.
I also added a 3rd wish and ill show the list i currently am using. This is der's and wasteland's list.
Also to note that I have stopped loosing winnable matchups based on bad mana draws which to me is hella good. I hated loosing to inferior decks based on a crappy mana draw 1-5 games.
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [UNH] Island
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [B] Scrubland
1 [B] Savannah
1 [B] Tropical Island
2 [B] Underground Sea
4 [B] Tundra
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
// Creatures
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon
// Spells
2 [TE] Humility
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AP] Pernicious Deed
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [B] Counterspell
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [RAV] Seed Spark
I know im not bringing innovation at all, but I think this is worth discussing as it does bring some interesting points.
Point #1
Der when you played 4c why did 2 wishes make more sense then 3?
Point #2
Has anyone tested with a random top with the 4c versions? If so how were your results.
Point #3
Does the new landbase tweaks that have been going around work for you? If not, what are the problems?
Part #4
Is cutting 2 lands that were in spell slots and instead exhanging them for utility cards like top/ and or cunning wish feasable?
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
SdT has been acting "this may sound dumb" like a fifth Brainstorm.
Brainstorm is in my opinion the single best card in the deck: it is useful in any state of the game getting lands early, permission in the midgame, solutions in the lategame and finishers when you feel like winning... that's exactly why I included Ponder after some tests which has since then turned out to be, in my opinion, the second best card in the deck. Since SdT basically is a non-blue and slightly slower Ponder, I can see nothing wrong with playing it, you should try out Ponder too though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
Point #1
Der when you played 4c why did 2 wishes make more sense then 3?
Since the list is pretty tight, the third Cunning Wish was the easiest cut: it is rather clunky and its utility rather limited since you already have an extremely good out to Artefacts and Enchantments in Pernicious Deed.
I would not go back to playing three especially since the new lists have quite some digging power assuring to have found the Wish by the midgame (i.e. when you want it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
Part #4
Is cutting 2 lands that were in spell slots and instead exchanging them for utility cards like top/ and or cunning wish feasible?
If you start including more cantrips (Ponder and/or Sensei's Divining Top), you can get away with cutting some lands, make sure that the total count of manasources (i.e. Lands + Eternal Dragons) does not hit below 23-25.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Der_imaginäre_Freund
Brainstorm is in my opinion the single best card in the deck: it is useful in any state of the game getting lands early, permission in the midgame, solutions in the lategame and finishers when you feel like winning... that's exactly why I included Ponder after some tests which has since then turned out to be, in my opinion, the second best card in the deck. Since SdT basically is a non-blue and slightly slower Ponder, I can see nothing wrong with playing it, you should try out Ponder too though.
Since the list is pretty tight, the third Cunning Wish was the easiest cut: it is rather clunky and its utility rather limited since you already have an extremely good out to Artefacts and Enchantments in Pernicious Deed.
I would not go back to playing three especially since the new lists have quite some digging power assuring to have found the Wish by the midgame (i.e. when you want it).
If you start including more cantrips (Ponder and/or Sensei's Divining Top), you can get away with cutting some lands, make sure that the total count of manasources (i.e. Lands + Eternal Dragons) does not hit below 23-25.
I'll try ponder.
I am still in love with a 1 of top in the deck, but I wont be partial towards top in the testing as to give your idea a fair shot.
The dust bowl thing has been worth it every time I hit it. Even though im paying the extra mana its still been worth it even when I hit crucible or LFTL, which actually astonishes me how much control the card has over the game state.
BTW in case you haven't seen yet, I really really like the mana base alot more now. 25 lands always seemed to get me flooded with colorless lands, and smoothing out the base with 3 fac's deffinately improved things.
I miss my academy ruins though I must say as both a lock of EE every turn or just saying ill pitch crucible now and get it later kind of a thing, or even just ee when you have no cards in your library every turn to keep you in the game </3 academy ruins I miss you!!
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
I miss my academy ruins though I must say as both a lock of EE every turn or just saying ill pitch crucible now and get it later kind of a thing, or even just ee when you have no cards in your library every turn to keep you in the game </3 academy ruins I miss you!!
You should try to fit it back in there. I find myself more happy with Academy + Tormods Crypt lock vs Aggro Loam and Ichorid and have been considering going up to 3 in the side for just this purpose. Right now i have just one in the side.
I'm interested in trying SDT in this deck, but i really have no idea what i should cut. Perhaps a land since i run 25 + dragon.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frenger
I'm interested in trying SDT in this deck, but i really have no idea what i should cut. Perhaps a land since i run 25 + dragon.
Definitely go for a land!
I've been testing 2 Ponder in my UWb version and came to like them a lot.
They should be even better in the 4CCtypes cause they are really efficient mana fixers.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
klaus
Definitely go for a land!
I've been testing 2 Ponder in my UWb version and came to like them a lot.
They should be even better in the 4CCtypes cause they are really efficient mana fixers.
But thats my argument for sdt.
sdt is actually a mini mini lftl and a mini brainstorm all in one. It actually gives you hand preservation if you play it correctly. It also combines with life from the loam.
I dunno, I could be dead wrong, but I deffinately need to dest with der on this one. Ill be on all day today if anyone wants to contact me feel free to
im Joel Ferris on mws and my msn is Moss_Boss@live.com
feel free.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
How does just one top work out though? I kind of feel like if i run it i might as well run 3.
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frenger
How does just one top work out though? I kind of feel like if i run it i might as well run 3.
Its kind of the same position you put yourself in as running 2 humility or 2 decree or a 1-1 split between crucible and or life from the loam. You hope you see one every game, but its not going to break you if you do or don't.
Sensei's devining top is also a great way to search for your win conditions via fetch look fetch look, at the price of a life and a mana you find a decree, tolaria west, 1-3 mishra's factory.
Also remember that if you have your humility and you dont want to drop a standstill, cunning wish- enlightened tutor- sensei's devining top isn't exactly a bad play.
I dunno, I am personally a believe as it can give you that extra force of will or blue card without wasting your brainstorm to look for it, I just like it. It feels right. But im going to test the ponder version for now on mws and revert back to the top version and see the comparisons first hand.
I honestly feel like id rather have a 3rd cunning wish then a 4th deed, more of the time. Does anyone else feel this way?
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
I honestly feel like id rather have a 3rd cunning wish then a 4th deed, more of the time. Does anyone else feel this way?
I think i would rather have 3 EE/3 Deed if i was going to cut a deed.
I don't think i would go to 3 cunning wish. It's too slow in a lot of MU's.
Also, has anyone else noticed that LftL + Tolaria West is nuts. It costs alot of mana, but you can do SO much more by being able to cast tolaria west twice (or more).
Re: [DtB] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frenger
I think i would rather have 3 EE/3 Deed if i was going to cut a deed.
I don't think i would go to 3 cunning wish. It's too slow in a lot of MU's.
Also, has anyone else noticed that LftL + Tolaria West is nuts. It costs alot of mana, but you can do SO much more by being able to cast tolaria west twice (or more).
It is nuts, especially if you have gained control.. being able to tutor for multiple factories over the span of a couple turns is huge sometimes.
