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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew77
That point is an absolute joke.
Why don't all you people who whine about card value increasing just live with that? Card values increasing are much better for the game then card values decreasing.
If you have a problem with card values increasing odds are you aren't buying cards or contributing to the increased prices anyway and they will keep rising regardless of your opinion and all your whining will be in vain.
Do you honestly think the value of an English Tabernacle would drop so much if it were reprinted in some sort of WB form?
In your specific case, given the amount of pimp you own, you shouldn't be too concerned :p
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
Do you honestly think the value of an English Tabernacle would drop so much if it were reprinted in some sort of WB form?
In your specific case, given the amount of pimp you own, you shouldn't be too concerned :p
I would think you've been around long enough to know the answer to this. If they reprinted Tabernacle, with today's print runs, the Legends one would go from $225 to about $15 overnight.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JACO
I would think you've been around long enough to know the answer to this. If they reprinted Tabernacle, with today's print runs, the Legends one would go from $225 to about $15 overnight.
Maybe... but not for a long time. Look at the Birds of Paradise. M10=$4.99, beta=$169.99
I would ever prefer WB revised dual lands over BB reprinted dual lands in new ugly frame... even if the old one had current price and the new one cost $10.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
humppa
Maybe... but not for a long time. Look at the Birds of Paradise. M10=$4.99, beta=$169.99
I would ever prefer WB revised dual lands over BB reprinted dual lands in new ugly frame... even if the old one had current price and the new one cost $10.
The print run of legends was much larger than that of Alpha and Beta. When you add in italian legends there are going to be around 8-10 times as many tabernacle's as A/B bop's. I doubt prices will drop as drastically as Jaco said, but tabernacles would drop to about $50 overnight and continue down towards $20-$30 as time passes.
Also as Mr. C said if you currently have pimp cards like Alpha/Beta, Korean, Jap foi etcl you won't really be affected by any reprints. Even if they reprinted dual lands and made them mythics and you get get jap foil ones Alpha would still be more expensive.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JACO
I would think you've been around long enough to know the answer to this. If they reprinted Tabernacle, with today's print runs, the Legends one would go from $225 to about $15 overnight.
Are we talking about a FTV style reprint or a full-fledged Chronicles 2?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Tabernacles on MODO are a dollar or two. I can't imagine real ones holding any price over $50-75 if they were reprinted.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
Are we talking about a FTV style reprint or a full-fledged Chronicles 2?
IF WoTC created a FTV: Dual Lands, the existing dual lands would drop considerably. If they did a white-bordered Chronicles 2011 everything they reprinted would drop even more. If they did DCI Judge Foil Tabernacles the Legends ones would drop considerably. If they printed FNM Foil Imperial Recruiters and Loyal Retainers the P3K versions would be a very very small fraction of their current cost (think $5 or less for each; they're both uncommons). If they did an exact functional reprint of Tabernacle with a different name (ie. 'Takethiscockinyourass of the Pendrell Vale') it would drop the value the same. The latter is the direction I think Wizards' will eventually go once someone with their head not up their ass takes a look at the Grand Prix attendance from the past few years and realizes Legacy would actually be the most popular format if they supported it on a full-time basis (because it already generates the highest attendance time and time again even without true support!). That way they increase supply of rare cards without the need to break any Reserve List promises.
It doesn't matter how you introduce reprints. More supply generally equates to a lower price point of both the original version and the reprinted version. History has shown that there's an initial spike because of interest, and then a sizeable drop-off in prices for individual cards.
When I say a Legends Tabernacle would drop to $15 overnight with a reprint that's a bit of hyperbole. It would take a few months for it to reach that low, but I absolutely believe it would. I was actively buying and selling during the original Chronicles printing, and it wasn't pretty for people who were collectors or dealers (and many got out at that time). Crappy Legends rares like the dragons went from $30-40 each to like $3 in short order, as did things like Carrion Ants, City of Brass, Ernham Djinn, etc. As for the white border versions? They really aren't worth dick now, either. The only reason Tabernacle would remain at $15 is because it's highly playable in a good deck (as a 1 to 2 of, people should note), and people would still be occassionally seeking out an actual Legends copy to complete their sets.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Functional Reprints aren't allowed with the reserve list. Now, if they nix it and go that route, I would be plenty happy.
Honestly, if they printed new dual lands that were legacy viable (like M2010 lands with basic land types, or lands that ETBT unless you reveal a card of one of the two colors it produces - also with basic land types), I think the whole dual land argument would go away. And to me, that's the biggest barrier to starting legacy - the insanely expensive manabases required.
People would still want original duals if they wanted the absolute best card playable, but a very very large percentage would be okay with m2010 lands with basic types in the majority of decks.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stuckpixel
Functional Reprints aren't allowed with the reserve list. Now, if they nix it and go that route, I would be plenty happy.
Guess you haven't noticed the latest stuff coming out. Phyrexian Negator is getting his reprint and it seems Wizards is going to use the old loophole of printing special purpose foils to reprint cards again for more widely printed materials than just promos now.
I can almost guarantee if they reprinted Tabernacle in any form at all it would hurt the price of the original tremendously just due to the fact of what decks use it. Not many. It's rarity and lack of replacements for decks are it's largest selling features. Any possible way to use another card would kill the original's price, it's not a widespread use card.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
Guess you haven't noticed the latest stuff coming out. Phyrexian Negator is getting his reprint and it seems Wizards is going to use the old loophole of printing special purpose foils to reprint cards again for more widely printed materials than just promos now.
I can almost guarantee if they reprinted Tabernacle in any form at all it would hurt the price of the original tremendously just due to the fact of what decks use it. Not many. It's rarity and lack of replacements for decks are it's largest selling features. Any possible way to use another card would kill the original's price, it's not a widespread use card.
Functional reprints _still_ aren't allowed by the reserve list - printing premium (ie foil) versions are. I'm quite aware of the new duel decks, thank you.
I'd be fine with Tabs around 25-50, but at 200-300, it's simply out of reach for a good percentage of players. Obviously, if wizards does decide to go with the new Chronicles set - they'd have to price the packs at a higher point, and make cards like tabernacle mythic to at least attempt to maintain some value. I tend to believe the guys at wizards are pretty smart, and I think they could pull it off in a way that makes the format playable for a larger chunk of players, but doesn't completely screw over all of us who bought in before it got 'popular'.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stuckpixel
I tend to believe the guys at wizards are pretty smart, and I think they could pull it off in a way that makes the format playable for a larger chunk of players, but doesn't completely screw over all of us who bought in before it got 'popular'.
If you bought in before prices rose a bunch, then you aren't getting "screwed over," you're just not making a profit. It's the people buying cards NOW, when prices are high, who could actually lose money - which is one more reason to do something about high prices sooner rather than later, if you ask me. The longer they wait, the worse the crash will eventually be.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stuckpixel
I'd be fine with Tabs around 25-50, but at 200-300, it's simply out of reach for a good percentage of players.
why , what is the rush to suddenly play obscure tier 2 decks , surely there are others in all of legacy to play.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stuckpixel
I tend to believe the guys at wizards are pretty smart, and I think they could pull it off in a way that makes the format playable for a larger chunk of players, but doesn't completely screw over all of us who bought in before it got 'popular'.
Are you talking about the same wizards that designed zendikar before they decide to make the m10 rules change so now a bunch of zendikar cards are utter garbage thanks to no more damage on the stack?
Or are you talking about the wizards thats number one interest is making money?
I highly doubt wizards is smart enough to do anything correctly and for that reason prefer they do nothing. Personally whatever they do wouldn't affect me as Alpha, Korean and Jap foil cards won't drop in value. Sure, I'd lose out on some things like p3k and tabernacle, but I'm also one of the people who bought a bunch of tabernacles at $100 after 43 lands dominated the first 3 SCG 5k's so even if the lone tabernacle I own now becomes worthless I'll still have made money.
Also considering that people considered $100 restrictive until recently and now we have $300 cards in legacy where does wizards draw the line? Tarmogoyf was pushing over $70 a few weeks ago. Imagine all the new legacy players being drawn in by low costs of duals etc that you guys want. That will only increase demand of other cards. Then what? Reprint those too? All reprinting cards will do is start an endless cycle that will eventually drive down the value of cards as a whole.
As long as type 2 decks can cost well over $300 and extended decks can cost well over $600 it's hard to expect legacy decks to be on par with that. Even now with all the price increases very few legacy decks break the $1000 mark and you know you'll be able to resell the cards for at least that much.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I would much rather have a demand driven economy than a supply driven economy.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Some Guy
Why, what is the rush to suddenly play obscure tier 2 decks;, surely there are others in all of Legacy to play.
Yeah, I tend to agree. Also, for those of us who think dual lands and cards such as Force of Will, which are needed for a several tier one decks, need some kind of price limitation get their arguments completely undermined by going off the deep end and mentioning reprinting Tabernacle. Personally, I'm completely fine with niche cards like Imperial Recruiter, Tabernacle or even Moat staying at high values, because as Some Guy says, we don't need to play every deck.
I just really fundamentally disagree with necessary cards being too expensive. By necessary I mean utility cards or must-haves. Force of Will is certainly one, and so is Tarmogoyf. If you're playing blue, I'm sure you're playing Force of Will. If you're playing ANY color, it seems you splash green for Tarmo. Seems to me, those must-haves should not be too expensive. Cards like Natural Order or Entomb, I'm more or less fine with being expensive because they are not auto-includes.
I was talking to a Sourcer who said he'd like to splash white in Merfolk, but can't afford to. To me, that's ridiculous and unhealthy, that you can't afford to splash a colour. Call me insane (do it, I dare ya . . . I once shot a man in Reno justa watch 'em die), but I think a manabase should be the most accessible part of the game, not the sole barrier to slashing a color.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MMogg
I just really fundamentally disagree with necessary cards being too expensive. By necessary I mean utility cards or must-haves. Force of Will is certainly one, and so is Tarmogoyf. If you're playing blue, I'm sure you're playing Force of Will. If you're playing ANY color, it seems you splash green for Tarmo. Seems to me, those must-haves should not be too expensive. Cards like Natural Order or Entomb, I'm more or less fine with being expensive because they are not auto-includes.
I like this. Period.
This is the same principle that sees Wizards divide Mythic from Rare. Dual lands and utility cards like Maelstrom Pulse that have a wide application could have been printed at Mythic. You don't have to play with Baneslayer Angel to have a DTB; it too could be seen as a niche card. Sure if goes in alot of decks, but certainly not ALL decks that could play it (just look at LSV's list 'Boss Naya', that played Stoneforge mystic and equipment in preference).
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
If card supply is that much of a problem the best solution would be for wizards to just institute a rule that allows proxies in legacy at the cost of $2/ proxy with all money going towards prize support. This won't destroy the prices of cards and it won't impact sales of new cards as most proxies will be oop cards. I doubt this is what wizards will do as their main interest is to make money and if they this something as simple as reprint tabernacle as a mythic rare in any upcoming set that would increase sales tremendously.
Actually now that I think of it I know how wizards can make money while doing this. They can make gold bordered proxies and only proxies printed by them are legal. This is perfect. Wizards makes money (thats the only way they'll do anything); everyone who already owns the cards doesn't have to worry about losing money; players who can't afford cards can now just proxy them for a fraction of the cost;prize support is increased. Total success.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Wont proxies affect the price of a card by as much as reprinting it? Given most players own expensive cards due to their playability, and if they can legally proxy these cards there is no longer a reason for owning them, thus reducing demand and lowering price?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew77
Are you talking about the same wizards that designed zendikar before they decide to make the m10 rules change so now a bunch of zendikar cards are utter garbage thanks to no more damage on the stack?
Or are you talking about the wizards thats number one interest is making money?
I highly doubt wizards is smart enough to do anything correctly and for that reason prefer they do nothing.
Clearly they have no idea what they're doing - it's not like this is the most successful CCG of all time and has been going for 15+ years straight.
And how dare they want to earn money on their corporate product! They should be in this for the love of the game, not just to make a paycheck.
I'm tired of these arguing points - honestly man, Wizards is a company and they are in the business of making money. They do this by making a card game. They've been doing this for 15 years, and everything has been fine. The rules change actually made you have to think about things - instead of there being a single correct way to do things, there is now a decision tree where there wasn't one before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Some Guy
why , what is the rush to suddenly play obscure tier 2 decks , surely there are others in all of legacy to play.
Sure, there are other decks - and I honestly don't have a problem with some obscure cards being worth more - but lands has been putting up solid tournament results lately, I'd hardly call it an obscure tier 2 deck. It's when you have a pretty key card in the deck that costs more than some decks in total - and other decks are starting to approach that level of absurdity (Tarmos at $60, FoWs going up to $40ish). I agree a market driven economy for the game is generally better - but at the same time, if the market drives cards up to the point where the average player cannot get into it - that's not a good thing.
Fresh blood is what makes formats work. If we alienate players with a huge buy-in cost, the format is going to start going the way of Vintage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew77
If card supply is that much of a problem the best solution would be for wizards to just institute a rule that allows proxies in legacy at the cost of $2/ proxy with all money going towards prize support. This won't destroy the prices of cards and it won't impact sales of new cards as most proxies will be oop cards. I doubt this is what wizards will do as their main interest is to make money and if they this something as simple as reprint tabernacle as a mythic rare in any upcoming set that would increase sales tremendously.
Actually now that I think of it I know how wizards can make money while doing this. They can make gold bordered proxies and only proxies printed by them are legal. This is perfect. Wizards makes money (thats the only way they'll do anything); everyone who already owns the cards doesn't have to worry about losing money; players who can't afford cards can now just proxy them for a fraction of the cost;prize support is increased. Total success.
I don't think wizards could really stipulate that tournament hosts have to charge more for proxies. They don't control the entry fees. While I'd be on-board with being able to sanction proxy events - it kind of goes against wizard's MO. I could see something stating that you can proxy cards from the old face, or you can proxy cards on the reserve list or something, but I don't think there'd be any way to enforce an extra $2 per proxy. (seems a little high too, most vintage events that are proxy have a certain number you just _get_, then an extra dollar a proxy beyond that.) The reserve list also prohibits wizards printing proxies - as the cards being printed would not be premium, but certainly would be intended for tournament play.
Honestly, we either need staple reprints (read: tarmogoyf, original duals, fow, etc) - or we need mostly serviceable replacements. Power level for replacement duals need to be between original duals and shocklands - need to be fetchable and not so bad that they put you at a significant disadvantage by playing them.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stuckpixel
Sure, there are other decks - and I honestly don't have a problem with some obscure cards being worth more - but lands has been putting up solid tournament results lately, I'd hardly call it an obscure tier 2 deck. It's when you have a pretty key card in the deck that costs more than some decks in total - and other decks are starting to approach that level of absurdity (Tarmos at $60, FoWs going up to $40ish). I agree a market driven economy for the game is generally better - but at the same time, if the market drives cards up to the point where the average player cannot get into it - that's not a good thing..
or maybe it did well because not many people have sideboard to properly combat a deck with 43 lands in it. I want to drive nice car , but I have decent car. but just because I want to drive nice car , doesnt mean I need to drive nice car. my car is still functional and they both would get me to one place to the next. if I save my money I can eventually sell my decent car and buy a nice car , that is my choice , but it is not a right.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stuckpixel
Clearly they have no idea what they're doing - it's not like this is the most successful CCG of all time and has been going for 15+ years straight.
And how dare they want to earn money on their corporate product! They should be in this for the love of the game, not just to make a paycheck.
I'm tired of these arguing points - honestly man, Wizards is a company and they are in the business of making money. They do this by making a card game. They've been doing this for 15 years, and everything has been fine. The rules change actually made you have to think about things - instead of there being a single correct way to do things, there is now a decision tree where there wasn't one before.
They can perfectly have no idea of what they are doing and still have the most successful CCG of all time. All you need is a state-granted monopoly for 15 years called patent on CCGs and inept competitors.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I was brainstorming, and I think that one way to "solve" the reserved list duals issue, without making nasty foils or other workarounds, would just be to get Wasteland and Force of Will into circulation. Both are uncommon, both are incredibly highly-played, and both are getting rather pricey. Solution? Reprint time!
Incidentally, if the metagame gets flooded with Wastes, then suddenly duals are less attractive. You could intheroy do the same thing with Sinkhole, which is also price and not on the list.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew77
If card supply is that much of a problem the best solution would be for wizards to just institute a rule that allows proxies in legacy at the cost of $2/ proxy with all money going towards prize support. This won't destroy the prices of cards and it won't impact sales of new cards as most proxies will be oop cards. I doubt this is what wizards will do as their main interest is to make money and if they this something as simple as reprint tabernacle as a mythic rare in any upcoming set that would increase sales tremendously.
Actually now that I think of it I know how wizards can make money while doing this. They can make gold bordered proxies and only proxies printed by them are legal. This is perfect. Wizards makes money (thats the only way they'll do anything); everyone who already owns the cards doesn't have to worry about losing money; players who can't afford cards can now just proxy them for a fraction of the cost;prize support is increased. Total success.
oh Jersey.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DrJones
They can perfectly have no idea of what they are doing and still have the most successful CCG of all time. All you need is a state-granted monopoly for 15 years called patent on CCGs and inept competitors.
I've said it before and I'll say it again WoW ccg is just a better designed version of magic. Everything most people hate about magic is eliminated and the only reason that game isn't as successful is because it is made by UDE.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozymandias
I was brainstorming, and I think that one way to "solve" the reserved list duals issue, without making nasty foils or other workarounds, would just be to get Wasteland and Force of Will into circulation. Both are uncommon, both are incredibly highly-played, and both are getting rather pricey. Solution? Reprint time!
Incidentally, if the metagame gets flooded with Wastes, then suddenly duals are less attractive. You could intheroy do the same thing with Sinkhole, which is also price and not on the list.
That's a possible outcome, but not the only one. Let me show you what I think would be the most likely outcome from that action with the following example. Let's say there's a card that reads "search your opponent's library for a card called Tarmogoyf. If you find one, you win the game." would that stop people from playing Tarmogoyf? Answer: No, but it would be played in Tarmogoyf decks against the mirror.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
The thing is there's no such thing as a Tarmogoyf deck. There are only decks that run Tarmogoyf. Compare to "Ritual Decks," "Dredge decks" "City/Tomb decks," which are absolutely centralized around their namesakes.
Pedanticism aside, it's just a reserved-list-free way to open up new strategies.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DrJones
They can perfectly have no idea of what they are doing and still have the most successful CCG of all time. All you need is a state-granted monopoly for 15 years called patent on CCGs and inept competitors.
Somewhat off-topic, but their patent expired a year ago and it does not cover all "CCG," just some particulars about MtG. They have competitors to their product and they have not done well. Also, patents are not monopolies.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Entomb's are going for 40 now...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guevera59
Entomb's are going for 40 now...
I know I shouldn't be, but I can't help being surprised over and over by this trend. I can still remember the hottest T2 and Extended cards usually being about $20, and now that's laughable. I'd love to say something simple like there's more demand or more players vying for more cards, but it seems like whenever a new card/deck breaks out, all stores and all ebay buy-it-nows increase at least twofold. I don't think that's just more demand. I think it's just a natural trend that the expected value on hot cards is $20 and up as opposed to $20 at most. I just don't know why that shift exists.
Dark Depths is a good example of this. Yeah, I hear all the reasons about how it's from a set that wasn't opened much, etc. etc. But I still don't see why that card pretty much immediately jumped from $1 to $20. That, to me, wasn't just that $20 was the natural rising and peaking of demand, it was that $20 is the new starting point on hot cards.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew77
I highly doubt wizards is smart enough to do anything correctly and for that reason prefer they do nothing.
DING DING DING. We have a winner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrew77
Personally whatever they do wouldn't affect me as Alpha, Korean and Jap foil cards won't drop in value.
This really isn't true at all, depending on how they issue reprints of cards are the Reserved List. If they made M11 with real dual lands (Underground Sea, Tropical Island, Taiga, etc.) your Alpha and Beta cards would absolutely lose value. People would need them to complete sets, but the value would be half or less. There would be Japanese Foils that most people (with that habit) would migrate towards instead. Alpha/Beta value for key cards would plummet considerably.
Now, if they reprinted key Legacy or Vintage cards like Swords to Plowshares, Wasteland, Tarmogoyf, Entomb, Imperial Recruiter, Imperial Seal, Polluted Delta and Force of Will (cards which are NOT on the Reserved List, and which I think are fine in the current Standard and Extended environments), I think this would be more than enough to increase supply and combat what most people think are outrageous prices.
Along the lines of "outrageous prices," I've heard a number of people complain about the price of cards like Force of Will and Tarmogoyf in particular. For those of you have a problem with those prices, can I ask you a serious question? With the idea that Magic was designed and marketed as a COLLECTIBLE CARD GAME, what is wrong with the fact that the best counterspell ever printed is a $35-40 card, and the best creature ever printed is a $70 card? That is a drop in the bucket when compared to cards like Juzam Djinn (a relatively crappy creature by today's standards that no one plays competitively anymore) at $100-130, and things like The Abyss (unplayed) at $50.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JACO
Now, if they reprinted key Legacy or Vintage cards like Swords to Plowshares, Wasteland, Tarmogoyf, Entomb, Imperial Recruiter, Imperial Seal, Polluted Delta and Force of Will (cards which are NOT on the Reserved List, and which I think are fine in the current Standard and Extended environments), I think this would be more than enough to increase supply and combat what most people think are outrageous prices.
Along the lines of "outrageous prices," I've heard a number of people complain about the price of cards like Force of Will and Tarmogoyf in particular. For those of you have a problem with those prices, can I ask you a serious question? With the idea that Magic was designed and marketed as a COLLECTIBLE CARD GAME, what is wrong with the fact that the best counterspell ever printed is a $35-40 card, and the best creature ever printed is a $70 card? That is a drop in the bucket when compared to cards like Juzam Djinn (a relatively crappy creature by today's standards that no one plays competitively anymore) at $100-130, and things like The Abyss (unplayed) at $50.
Wait, so you support reprinting fringe-playable cards to drive down prices on cards that are only expensive due to their collectibility, but you support high prices for staple cards because this is a collectible card game? How do you manage to survive a single day in the real world with that kind of doublethink?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Is that real? (And if it is, source?)
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
majikal
Wait, so you support reprinting fringe-playable cards to drive down prices on cards that are only expensive due to their collectibility, but you support high prices for staple cards because this is a collectible card game? How do you manage to survive a single day in the real world with that kind of doublethink?
Where do I ever say I support reprinting fringe-playable cards to drive down prices on other cards? What I support is Wizards' reprinting Legacy staples that are NOT on the Reserved List that would dramtically drive down the entrance costs to get into Eternal formats (such as Swords to Plowshares, Wasteland, Tarmogoyf, Entomb, Imperial Recruiter, Imperial Seal, Polluted Delta and Force of Will). What have I said that does not make sense if you actually read my post?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Another option instead of reprinting anything, would be for TOs to start holding proxy non-sanctioned tournaments. That way everyone could play almost everything. Then card values would probably still stay the same and would only be needed for sanctioned events. This obviosly doesn't please everyone but it gives people an oportunity to enter at about the old cost and allows people to have the option on whether to obtain the cards or not.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
There is an issue with that also. It won't help get Wizards attention for the format like the biggest magic tournament in history does. With it being nonsanctioned, they don't see the numbers for interest and it ends up not helping get more support.
With more people coming out of their caves to play in events, the numbers grow. When the numbers grow, the support grows. When the support grows, the prize pool grows. When the prize pool grows, everybody wins (or at least those at the top win more).
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
@anonymos: I agree with you in principle. Although, if 2200 people came together to play magic anywhere I'm pretty sure Wizards would hear about it and be interested in it as well. If they weren't running the event they would probably also be interested in who was and why it was so successful.
Now with all that said, w/o GP prize money put up I'm not sure if you'd have that type of draw. However, given the massive number of Spanish players participating something like an SCG 5K with an additional graduated prize pool to take into account insane high attendance might have put up similar numbers.
Anyway, except for BU reanimator the usual suspects top-8ed. I'm sorta wondering when fringe cards are going to drop again given that you can obviously just play less expesive decks like zoo or ANT and just wreck face.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I doubt the fringe cards will drop. People have decided 'hey, these can be useful', and are hanging onto sets on the thought that 'someday I'll use these'.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xTrainx
I doubt the fringe cards will drop. People have decided 'hey, these can be useful', and are hanging onto sets on the thought that 'someday I'll use these'.
Not only that, but many of these fringe cards like Undiscovered Paradise and Scroll Rack have been out of print for well over a decade now, and as a result there is obviously no new supply.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I just got an email from Channel Fireball advertising a "Legacy and Vintage Blowout Sale" with. . .
$50 Force
$50 Diamond
$50 LED
$25 Wasteland
That's one hell of an enticing sale, how can I possibly resist?
