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I've tried it a few times, and the reliability you get by running mono blue doesn't help you here since they'll still be slamming your lands. Giving up crop rotation is absolutely brutal, and having no way or hardcasting or even including a Primeval Titan is devastating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
At the moment, a mono blue list is not viable.
I've been having good success using Surgical Extraction in my board to fight Wasteland/Loam. There's a lot of Lands in my local meta, which uses Engineered Explosives at 1 to blow up Pithing Needles and Candelabras. Surgical hitting Wasteland and/or Loam has actually been more effective for me in long games than Pithing Needle (although Pithing Needle is better to buy a few early turns with a fast hand). I'm not sure if this will hold true in a build without Crop Rotations, but you can try Surgical if Abrupt Decay hitting Needle is giving you problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
For once I totally agree with TBC. If abrupt decay picks up and dominates the format, pithing needle will be significantly weaker and I would start running surgical extracts, possibly even on the main. From the testing I have done though, non-TeamAmerica builds of BuG don't give us problems at all, and Surgical doesn't hinder Team America enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
You beat Team America by out-advantaging their tempo, which is a significant process that I would suggest cards like Divert, Envelop, Flusterstorm, Teferi's Response and Green Sun's Zenith are far better suited for.
Meta predictions I usually stay away from, but since a meta shift directly affects the viability and builds of the deck, I'll give my thoughts after testing a good bit of abrupt decay on both sides.
The card hoses the two most represented archetypes, Tempo control (Rug) and permanent control (Maverick). Maverick is less hosed by abrupt decay specifically, but BuG lists can and should run deed, which maverick scoops to. The pivotal bit is because abrupt decay straight counters RuG, decks that RuG were keeping in check (Merfolk, Explosive Combo, Control, and Team America) can make a resurgence. Deed has no game against Combo, but Deed decks run hand permission, thus likely keeping combo on the low side. Merfolk scoops to Deed and uncounterable abrupt decay, but still has more threats than RuG did, so I see Merfolk seeing moderate play and infrequent but existent showings.
The two big heads to keep an eye on are Team America and Control. Terminus just became significantly stronger. I foresee a relative return to the Team America meta, which was U/W Control, Team America and extremely explosive combo.
How does this affect eldrazi? It is wonderful for it.
Despite Team America frequently being a horrid matchup back in the day, the addition of flusterstorm, which was only printed after the meta shifted away from Team America to RuG, gives you real game against their Hymn plan. They lose just as much to Show & Tell as Rug did, and they don't run as many counters. Often 8-10 compared to RuG's 12.
U/W has always been our best matchup and I see it doing very well in the future. Especially if it starts running Divert to counter abrupt decay, hymns, and combo's early hand disruption, I predict there will be good players piloting U/W to victory.
I am still keeping the list very similar to what I have been doing great with recently, which is repeal-centric, Show & Tell, and a sideboard of silver bullets.
Do you guys have any links to videos of this deck? I remember clearly watching a match on YouTube but can't find it for the life of me.
There's a link 8-9 pages back of a Florida player who had several of his rounds filmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
As another thought of viable options over pithing needle main in the face of an abrupt decay meta, Skyshroud Blessing may be worth testing. I'll mess with it a bit. certainly for the mono green build, not sure about for the UG one. The disynergy with candelabra should be known, but shouldn't be relevant.
If you're going for that effect, you could play teferi's response. Doesn't stop multiple wastes in one turn, but draws more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Yes but teferi's response doesn't do what needle never did, which was cycle when it was dead. Incidentally you also turn off High Tide's candelabras. Since High tide might make a comeback in an abrupt decay meta, this is at least worth testing. Also running teferi's response in mono green seems difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat
Sorry for my english, is not my native lenguage.
I've been 3rd in a tournament of 146 people this weekend in Cantabria (Spain)
I will write a report to be published on Wednesday in manainfinito.com
This is the list I played
Turbo Eldrazi - Eneko Mendibe
Lands (25)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
Creatures (8)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Primeval Titan
Artifacts (11)
4 Senseis Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
Instants (12)
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
4 Crop rotation
Sorceries (4)
4 Show and Tell
Sideboard (15)
3 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
2 Drop of Honey
3 Elephant Grass
2 Spine of Ish Sha
2 Cursed totem
Goblins 2-1
Goblins 2-1
ANT 1-2
Maverick 2-0
RUG 2-1
UW Miracles 2-0
Pox 2-1
Merfolks 2-1
(7-1)
Top 8 UWr Miracles 2-1
Top 4 Kuldotha MUD 1-2
Happy to hear of your success in a larger event! 140+ people is nothing to scoff at! MUD is a terrible terrible matchup. And I can see without chalice how ANT would be a beating and then some. How was Drop of Honey against goblins and merfolk? I haven't tested it yet at an event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeisse
Drop of honey is BAD against goblins, seriously terrible... It is very good to cheat it into play against show-> progenitus though. That's basically all I ever use it for (well, prog and shrouded reanimator targets).
Here is the report
The article is in Spanish sorry.
There are videos of the quarterfinals and semifinals.
http://manainfinito.com/coverage/tur...-eneko-mendibe
Videos
http://manainfinito.com/videos/open-...ndibe-vs-llano
I can't answer your questions because my English not allow me to express myself properly :frown:, although I understand everything you write
Whenever I'm trying to have a conversation with Japanese/Spanish/Brazilian/Italian/Dutch/German players but the language barrier is too dense, I suggest we both use http://translate.google.com and imput our conversations there. The result is extremely childish and grammar is wrong, but the point is always conveyed. If you wanted to use it to communicate here no one would judge you and we'd love it. :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeisse
Congrats!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeisse
So... when is this deck moving to Established Status? It's been sitting here in Developmental winning big tournaments left and right, as well as plenty of locals. I personally consider it one of the best decks in the current format. This deck falls into the SI category imo, where its an extremely viable deck but almost nobody plays it so it falls to the wayside. But SI managed to sneak in to Established during its heyday when a grand total of like 20 were playing it and now its starting to pick up steam again with around 20 players. I think Turbo Eldrazi is long overdue to move.
"For "finished" decks: Decks which are optimized and thoroughly tested. A deck is not required to have proven itself in a competitive tournament environment to be included in the Open Forum, but it is recommended. A thorough writeup including card choices, strategy, and matchup descriptions is required."
I think the mono-green list was thoroughly optimized until Show and Tell hit the scene and now Turbo Eldrazi players are adapting with the blue splash. Its proven itself in several competitive tournaments of +100 players. Also, considering Rock Lee is basically the authority on the deck and primary tester, props to you Rock for making this deck even a thing in the first place.
In other news, I'm still playing the mono-green list on Cockatrice but I'm looking at the blue splashes approvingly. Does it make sense to just splash for a few blue spells to retain the lands flexibility (so Brainstorm and perhaps Repeal) or to go all out and run Show and Tell, Repeal/Tide, etc. ? I feel like the deck becomes more vulnerable to countermagic when you run spells like Show and Tell over land tutors. Nobody counters the land tutors because they recognize that you play many. Show and Tell, however, is going to eat a hard counter. Then again, this deck is fantastic against control anyway so perhaps Show and Tell IS necessary to compete with combo decks. So what advantages does the mono-green list have over the blue splash? And matchups? This would be an interesting read worth putting in a new primer for when this deck finally moves to Established.
I have messaged several mods several times both on forums and via email about getting the deck moved to established. I have been ignored all times. I also know Leak views the thread with regularity so they are aware that this thread is the most viewed Developmental thread by far and has made several impressive showings at large events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Out of my hands, but honestly if folks want to ignore the deck that's fine by me. More spoils for me, and the mirror SUCKS to play against.
I have played virtually every color-density variant from mono green to 22 blue cards on the main /w force of wills. They are all viable, but I always try to modify the deck to best suit the meta of the time. This thread has most of the decklists posted on that progression. I ran mono green in many forms, Mono green with only brainstorm (3 of them), brainstorm and repeal, with brainstorm and show and tell, Trinket Mage TFK Brainstorm Ponder Force Repeal, and several other variants. They all work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Your comment about Show & Tell up against countermagic was how I originally beat Rug with consistency. I just ran 12 land tutors and played them in this order map, sylvan scrying, crop rotation, and by the time their counters were gone the coast was clear for landing primeval titan. Unfortunately, if you need to go quickly this plan doesn't work so it was only effective against "slower" aggro decks like RuG. Decks like affinity and goblins would rofl stomp my face. Show and Tell curbs those corners significantly.
J.R. is Rock Lee, right?
http://starcitygames.com/events/cove..._profiles.html
12 post is on-camera in the top 8 of scg providence!!!! Right now!!!!
Congrats on his performance. Additionally, I hope he learns to play at a faster pace and not put food in the middle of the match table.
Grats Rock. I noticed that you had a Phyrexian Revoker out. Very curious to see what list you picked for the SCG.
There's two major flavors of mono-green: MUD and GSZ. I can't speak to the GSZ builds, but I've been playing a more MUD-like deck for a while now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
1. Mono-Green runs full playsets of Crop Rotation and Ancient Stirrings. With a higher percentage of the deck being colorless, Ancient Stirrings becomes an extremely powerful digging tool.
2. Mono-Green runs cards like Exploration and Explore, allowing you to play multiple Posts in a turn. In addition to being acceleration, this lets you follow a Cloudpost with Vesuva without passing priority to an opponent with an untapped Wasteland. These cards also let you drop utility lands like Maze of Ith without hampering your mana development. It also gives you interesting options with Crucible of Worlds (especially Glacial Chasm, Wasteland).
3. Running basic forests instead of Tropical Islands leaves you less vulnerable to Wasteland, Blood Moon, Price of Progress, and Back to Basics.
4. Oddly enough, one big disadvantage of mono-green is cost. While a colored manabase of basic forests is significantly cheaper, mono-green really needs 3-4 Candelabras to be consistent.
This deck should be moved to established. Many many T4 and T8 finishes as well as a finals showing at SCG today.
GO GO GO ROCK LEE!!!!!!!!!! Put the deck in the map! :)
The game-winning play in Game1 of the semi's was insane - who else but Rock Lee would have had the intimate knowledge of his deck to be able to buy that much time, and then go for that killer play? Hat's off, sir.
There is nothing stopping anyone from creating a new thread in the Established forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
Why the 3x revokers in the sideboard is my main question. It stops LED, but it seems like most things you need to stop are answered by a needle anyways.
What was the situation and play?Quote:
Originally Posted by civet five
I'll do a full writeup soon, but to answer some questions.
I will put my carrot all over and around your battlefield.Quote:
Originally Posted by conboy31
Revoker was pivotal against Planeswalker stacks in the last round of the swiss, but I didn't see it where I would have needed it most, against Elves, MUD and storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirath
Thanks! That turn was incredible. I'm so glad there was someone recording exactly what was happening and I might steal some of his coverage in my report.Quote:
Originally Posted by civet five
Hitting manasources, namely Metalworker, Heritage druid, LED, Lotus pedal, and griselbrand are its main role. only Griselbrand gets hit by needle.Quote:
Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot
to be linked. It basically involved me casting Kozilek multiple times, ulamog'ing my own kozilek to shuffle my graveyard back in to enable me to go infinite with emrakul all while maintaining a glacial chasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp2293
Congrats on the big finish Rock! Gonna have to check out the SCG videos
edit: Damn.. had you had a cavern of souls last turn in the finals..
nut draws by rug delver... congratz anyway!
Oh, the irony:
The man goes from nearly losing his multi-thousand dollar deck in a college gym, and in a reversal of fortunes, finds it and reels off a legendary Open performance. Incredible.
Kudos to you, Jer; the Magic gods were clearly smiling on you that day.
And this deck belongs in Established - and should have been there a long time ago.
Hats off to you Rock Lee!
Looking forward seeing this in the established subforums. You've returned my faith back in Legacy.
Hi! I have been following this thread for a while but this is the first time posting. I have been playtesting the deck for about a month now and so far the deck has worked really well.
What do you guys think about Cyclonic Rift in this deck? It hits annoying permanents like chalice of the void and is able to bounce your opponents board at instant speed, i have been running 2 All is Dust in my list that i'm thinking about replacing, thoughts?
And congratulations Rock Lee, it was really exciting to watch you play in the top 8.
Bombs and Carrots is a freaking cool name.
And the recorded plays were awesome. Congratulations.
Almost spit my coke for laughing when you got up to stretch on the finals. =]
Currently I run zero sweeping removal in the deck and don't feel that it hurts me at all. As far as sweeping removal goes, Devastation Tide and All is Dust cover that role better than cyclonic rift. The overload cost is absurdly costed. If I were considering it more, I would want better eot applications and mana usages in the deck, so I would have reasons to sit on my heels and do nothing on my turn and then opt to bounce permanents. Perhaps a build with alchemist's refuge or Thirst for Knowledge, but both of those I don't see being as stable at the moment. More Testing could be required though and I'm not writing it off as a concept, just still reeling from glee about splitting that Open.Quote:
Originally Posted by zathe922
Congratulations on the open, Rock. That was awesome! Way to represent.
Congrats on the win - it's well-deserved. Hope to see this thread in Established soon - it's taken too long as it is, IMO.
What's the optimal number of candles for this deck?
Congrats Lee!
Just watched the video coverage and it's so nice to see this deck in action.
I also have to say, now that I've finaly got my hands on some Sensei Tops and Primeval Titans this deck makes a lot more fun to play. Now it's time to save up for the big bombs! :)