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No, three tops will almost insure you see them every match, not game. The deck can't afford a flood of any sort, tops included because shuffle effects aren't plentiful. Three tops and at least seven shuffle effects (IR, fetches, Gamble for the misers)
Looking through some of the lists I noticed none of the actually run GY hate. I do understand Emrakul match ups are not in our favor, is it just best to go the beat down plan side out Grindstones for Ensnaring bridges? As well as siding in all blasts? Ensnaring Bridge is our best card against Sneak Show right?
I've been doing that line of play and it seems to work. The thing about GY hate against Emrakul decks is that you need to have the piece of hate ready, basically making it an extra combo piece. I do side out my stones for Bridges. They just pull so much weight. If they don't nut draw you and end the game in teh first couple turns, you can sit behind a bridge and either assymble Jaya/PS or just dork beatdowns for the win. Like I mentioned in my post last page, I play the deck like a combo deck mainboard, and control from the side. I hate the elves matchup, burn isn't much better, fast combo/beatdown is annoying, and that leaves the rest of the field to beat up on.
I'd say spend your time testing your bad matchups, as you can get wins over time if your play is as tight as possible. Don't waste time on matches that are decent to good.
No GY ftw (atm)
So who all is going to be painting at the GP? I think I finally settled on a 75 that I'm happy with. Hasn't happened since I picked the deck up, every tournament was a few cards off the last one. No Welders, no GY hate, just pure Imperial Painter:
8 Mountain
4 Red Fetchlands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Magma Jet
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Koth of the Hammer
Board:
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thorn of Amethist
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Pyroclasm
Feels good man. Gonna run this in a couple weeks at another local for another free roll.
Good luck to you all going to DC!
Hey all I am planning on painting in DC. Here is the list I am settling on.
8 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Simian Spirt Guide
4 Blood Moon
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Spellskitte
2 Koth of the Hammet
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Rachet Bomb
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroclasm
Looks like we're doing about the same thing, although I highly urge you to up your Revoker count. The damn thing is so good you can steal Game ones by naming Dread Return, Heritage Druid, LED, Griselbrand and so on. And I stand behind Magma Jet in lieu of Lightning Bolt. The Scrye effect is just so helpful, and two damage takes care of a wide variety of creatures that three damage kills as well.
Good luck at the GP and update the thread for those in Day Two!
How could revoker name dread return？ jet is great in mid game, but it is slow to deal with turn one drs or some elf on the draw. And it will cost you 3 mana to kill thalia.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Wouldn't it make sense to play "sudden demise" from the commander-box over pyroclasm? You are able to deal more then 2 dmg to any creature AND for example vs. elves your revoker / Magus / whatever survives the sweeper.
Hey all, I am new to this awesome deck and have a few short questions:
1. Why isn't anybody playing Manic Vandal anymore? A recruitable artifact hate seems necessary for the unexperienced... Rancor was the last to mention it, but all of the last lists are playing without the vandal.
2. As GundamGuy pointed out Chandra, Pyromaster is in for the card draw ability. It seems to be a good alternative to the third Sensei's Divining Top for the additional cards draw and some extra optional damage, but in the thread I have not seen anybody writing about having plans of substituting this SDT slot. Everybody is just comparing chandra to koth of the hammer. Do you think a third SDT is still necessary if a copy of chandra is in the 60?
3. How are your thoughts about Kap'n Cook's 2 maindeck Ensnaring Bridge in the current meta? I really like that idea of potentially having them available game 1, but everybody else seems to put all of them in the board.
@zangoasyl
1. I personally still run manic vandal in the sideboard, stop other players needles, or other forms of disruption to our combo.
2. Sol land > sensei's > activate sensei's is prolly my 3rd favourite turn 1, and I like being able to do it consistently.
3. I once tried to run 4 ensnaring main deck. It's all really dependent on your metagame and if you think it'll be a better option than others in the MD.
Flashback is an activated ability. Less I be retardQuote:
Originally Posted by GoblinZ
Nope, just an alternate way to cast spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Haha welcome to the painter thread Mr. Gatz!
I never cut manic vandal from my 75, I personally think cutting it is a huge mistake. It is the most effective to deal with jitte, since your revoker can not ensure your safety. And it is really a good card against the Dnt, if you go to a large tournament right now, you should prepare something for that deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by zangoasyl
I think chandra is okay but not that effective.The reason why play 3 SNt is that I always want to see one SDT in my openning hand but not a chandra. the first ability of chandra is not as destructive as the first ability of koth against control, and is not that effective agaisnt aggro. the second ability of chandra is not that good unless you have already had one sdt on the board.
http://i.imgur.com/aSHK8EP.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz
So who is going to the GP? I'll be there at least Saturday but I might try and get a little bit of playing and talking shop come Friday night. What are people's thoughts?
Seth
I'll be there Friday to Sat. But I'll be playing UR Painter. Still painter, but some different tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by sroncor1
What didn't you like about imperial/like more about ur? Just curiousQuote:
Originally Posted by Ish
Love both decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
I loved the heavy moon style iPainter allowed for, but that had been letting me down for a little while. I know you adjusted a bit off the all in moon plan.
I have also always been a huge proponent of welder too. UR gives me 4. I can also find grindstone a little easier with transmute and intuition.
What I miss. Jaya!!! OMG that is still one of the most powerful things iPainter can do IMO. Also just beats after lock with revoker, magus and such.
So it's a personal/meta call for me right now. But in no way would I say either is better, or even which is better in the meta. If I run into shardless bug over and over in DC boy will I miss mono red. But, I have been running into miracles and other basic land heavy decks for some months now.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You made my day guys, thank you very much!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Man, in this way you will lose from S&T decks, without possibility. It's better a sideaboard like:Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
4 tormod's crypt
4 esnaring bridge
4 thorn of amethist
1 maniac vandal
2 ricochet trap
Richochet trap is very good against abrupt and counters.
How so? 4 ensnaring bridge is the best thing you can have against sneak and show. Plus the extra blast. If you're referring to the crypts then so that you can still combo, then you're talking about boarding in 8 cards??? What would you possibly take out for 8 cards???Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll be chillin with Seth Saturday. I encourage other painters to join in our little group.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
I bring in the Bridges, Blast, Jaya and probably extra Revokers for 4 GS ad 4 Blood moon. It's not like I can't possibly lose, but their lines of attack are thwarted enough for my deck to win. I just think that using Crypts to GS/PS combo is janky. Not even gonna bother.
Yeah, it's very good when they see a Griselabrand, they draw 7 cards and they cast a wipe out. 4 lightning bolt, 4 blood moon, 3 magus of the moon: the 11 useless cards against s&t decks that you can side-out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
To be fair, you quoted my sideboard. I don't run Bolts any more. I run four Revokers in my 75, and I more often than not name Griselbrand before I name Sneak Attack. You see, if they have the Griz, you don't have the revoker, etc., and they then have the mana and sideboarded Wipe Away in hand (do they honestly play this card?) then they win. Magical Christmas Land, this isn't the easiest match up ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
You're not being objective here, not slamming you. If you want to know more about this deck, welcome to the thread! Just ask away and we're all happy to answer.
hi all I went 3-2 this week at a 20-30ish legacy event. My list was same as above.
match-ups
Agro Loam
g1 and g2 blood moon and then painter, blast their basics
w 2-0
Burn
Too fast with too much damage to the head
L 0-2
Aluren
With grindstone activation on the stack he beat me
Ant
Thorns and blast do work
2-1
Last Round Opponent got mad and left..Free WIn
Overall list felt ok. It was a little slow at some times. I am open to any suggestions for DC this upcoming week.
Paint it Red.
How is Lightning Bolt Useless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
If you lock them down with Revokers and Ensnaring Bridge having Direct Damage to push though some extra points of damage seems fine, also sometimes you can surprise bolt them in response to there GB activation, putting them at an awkward life total or outright killing them.
Not as good clearly as in other match-ups, but I think the reason you view this as useless is because you are thinking of this match-up incorrectly. It's an standard aggro-control Control match, you drop a threat and then deny them there resources using Revoker (can also be your threat [Sweet]) and ensnaring bridge. Then you only care about one or two cards in there deck, and build a wall of Blasts to deal with them.
Yes sometimes they play Wipe Away, or Echoing Truth. IMO this shouldn't be a huge problem as Wipe Away is usually a one of, and that's why you should run out any additional Bridges you draw...
How are people battling True Name-Nemesis? I think my 3 Pyroclams in my sideboard are going to have to turn into 2 manic vandals for jitte and another spellskite. Thoughts?
Ensnaring Bridge
I run 4 in the side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
Seems ok. Keep in mind the non-merfolk decks that seem to be leaning heavily on TNN have mana bases which are weaker to Blood moon. The double blue means we can make this hard if not impossible to cast with blood moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by rancOr_
Option 2: Counter it with blast.
Option 3: Ensnaring Bridge.
Option 4: Just kill them.
With the rise of TNN decks this weekend I am
evaluating my main deck again. I
thinking of the possibility of changing my main to include 2 ensnaring bridges main deck. My list would then look like
8 sol lands
8 mountain
4 Fetch land
4 simian
4 blood moon
1 magus of moon
1 jaya
1 spellskitte
2 ensnaring bridge
4 painter
4 grindstone
2 koth
3 top
4 lightning bolt
4 pyroblast
2 red elemental blast
4 imperial recruiter
board:
4 thorn of Amythest
2 Red elemental blast
2 ensnaring bridge
2 rachet bomb
1 phrexian revoker
4 spots that i am open for sugesstions
I notices that this deck needs some form of raw card advantage...any suggestions?
edit: Also thoughts about dangerous wager or tezz's gambit as card draw? The wager is interesting while in top deck mode with instant speed.
I've suggested you drop Lightning Bolt for Magma Jet already. It goes well wtih Top and the two damage knocks off most critters TNN decks are playing. I dunno if TNN is the threat it is made out to be, honestly. We'll see this weekend, for sure. Maybe you can just load up on Blasts and play more control if they fetch/open with a blue source. The line of thought being that your opps are likely to be running the TNN and maybe you want to have/hold a blast open for the counter. Otherwise, Bridge will pull weight, and Ratchet Bomb might be too slow to tick up to three. I'd say stick to your deck's strengths and run 8 blasts and two Bridges maindeck. That should not hamper the deck but still give it game ones' more of a chance. That is, assuming TNN lives up to its hype.
@jandax
Thank you for your input. After a long debate, I may take you up on going to 3 Magma Jet, cutting Bolt, and then adding 1 Lotus Petal. My only worry is that taking out the turn 1 deathrite eot then blood moon is a game ending play.
For draw you can always get welder+top online rather than run bad cards like gambit/wager.
I don't anticipate nemesis being a problem for all the reasons mentioned so far. Jitte is the only problem card. But bridges blasts etc willl be allstars.
Bridge is going to do work. I am just unsure if I should play it in the main. Another uncertainty I am facing is 4 bolt vs 3 magma jet (for more filtering) and 1 lotus petal. Likewise, I am reevaluating if 3 pyrolcasm is worth it in the sideboard over revokers and other recruiter targets. Sorry if I am being repetitive. I am trying to get list and boarding plans ready for GP DC this week.
Under Bridge I sometimes wish I had a discard outlet. So I have moved to a 3/1 Bridge/Meekstone split and I am thinking of adding Peacekeeper.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
Why play Peacekeeper?
Just play an extra Jaya and there's your discard outlet. Plus it wins you the game more than Peacekeeper does.