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Flusterstorm is significantly worse than Swan Song in the mirror, Spell Pierce gets maindecked already. The 2/2 is irrelevant in most cases.
I like Swan Song, even though I would understand switching to Flusterstorm if you expect more Storm than Show and Tell. In a combo-light meta I would even change the Song-slots for a third Blood Moon and another bounce spell or a Pithing Needle.
Thx guys for the fast answers ;)
Your thoughts are the same as mine.
Atm my sideboard looks like:
2 Defense Grid
3 Pyroclasm
2 Echoing Truth
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blood Moon
1 Flusterstorm
1 Boseju, who shelters all
2 Through the breach
i am going to the eternal weekend in mailand next weekend and i think maybe combo is more in favour than miracle atm so
that was the main reason why I asked about running swan song.
If i would run 2 swan song i wanted to cut 1 fluster & 1 boseju in sb.
i have to say I also run 1 flusterstorm in main deck.
Would do you think guys ???
After that I have another question how good do you think is misdiretion atm ???
My thoughts on that are that misdirection isn't good as it was for 1 year .
A situation that came up in a DE recently:Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartNana
Opponent: Entomb
Me: Dig through Time
Opponent: Force of Will your DTT
Me: Misdirect your Force of Will to your Entomb
:tongue:
(even though I board out both DTT and Misdirection against Reanimator most of the time, MD won me that game 1)
Considering the resurgence of Shardless BUG and maybe even Jund, Misdirection still seems like a strong 1-of to me, even though it does get boarded out a lot.
Ookay that was a very nice situation JPA :tongue:
But I think that happen not so often hehe ;)
I think running misdirection or running flusterstorm is a meta choice. In a bug heavy meta i would Play misdirection and on Combo meta flustertstorm.
While the scenario JPA presented might seem a bit far fetched, there's a point in it. At least now that Dig Through Time exists. If DTT was Brainstorm instead, casting FoW on it in the presented situation is most likely too aggressive. Baiting with DTT is more likely to work since the effect provides more value if it resolves.
It's obviously a corner-case scenario, I just wanted to show that there are other applications for Misdirection than redirecting discard spells and merely countering counters.
Still, it's generally our 5th Force of Will.
JPA
What is your side in/out for the following decks :
Det
Rug
Reanimator
Miracles
Stoneblade
Iam having troubles because when i side with sneak n show I normally loose consistence of the deck !
Thx, Cris
I think the primer may already have answered your question.Quote:
Originally Posted by cris_rj
Also this mostly depends on what your sb is like.
Generally, donnot over-sideboard in most cases
take out some petals vs some slow blue deck
take out your worst cantrips(if you had) and slow cards like dtt against fast combo deck
consider taking out a land vs decks with no wasteland and soft counters.
So I've been tempted to put together sneak and show for a while now, but I've got a few reservations and questions about the deck (apologies if these have been answered in the thread and I failed to notice).
First, why play this deck over omni-tell? Am I being unfare by putting them in a similar category? Second, whenever I proxy up the deck, I seem to always find myself in the situation where I have multiple fatties in hand with no show and tell or sneak attack. I assume that's just variance at work but I was cuious if there are any plays or ways (besides the obvious brainstorm and shuffle) that you do to keep this from happening. Lastly, any of you have advice on mulligans? Are there any "trap" hands with the deck that look good at first but are actually mulligans?
Based on my current list:Quote:
Originally Posted by cris_rj
Flex-slots:
2 Dig Through Time
3 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Misdirection
Sideboard:
1 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Defense Grid
3 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Through the Breach
2 Blood Moon
This is just a rough guide, I might board differently than that depending on oddball sideboard-cards that I see in game 2 or depending on the draw/play.
vs D&T:
+1 Echoing Truth, +3 Pyroclasm, +2 Through the Breach, +2 Blood Moon
-1 Misdirection, -3 Spell Pierce, -1 Gitaxian Probe, -2 Force of Will, -1 Griselbrand
vs RUG:
+2 Blood Moon, +2 Defense Grid, +1 Echoing Truth, +1 Pyroblast, +1 Flusterstorm
-1 Gitaxian Probe, -2 Dig through Time, -4 Force of Will
On the draw I might keep the Digs and don't board Blood Moon. It might be right to board out 2 Probes and keep in 2 Forces, but I feel I have enough protection with Defense Grid, Pyroblast, Flusterstorm, Misdirection and 3 Pierce. Plus, I like Probe a lot in this matchup to know which of his counters (Daze, Pierce, Flusterstorm, FoW, REB) he has, if any.
vs Reanimator:
+1 Pyroblast, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Grafdigger's Cage, +2 Through the Breach, +1 Jace, +1 Echoing Truth
-1 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Girselbrand, -1 Mountain, -1 Misdirection, -2 Dig through Time, -2 Show and Tell
If you play against the slower version without Lotus Petal, it might be correct to keep in DTT and board out 2 Petals instead.
vs Miracles:
+2 Through the Breach, +1 Jace, +1 Echoing Truth, +1 Pyroblast
-1 Mountain, -2 Lotus Petal, -1 Misdirection, -1 Gitaxian Probe
vs Stoneblade
UWR ("Golddigger"): +everything except 2 Blood Moon, 2 Grafdigger's Cage
-2 Lotus Petal, -1 Mountain, -2 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Emrakul, -4 Force of Will,
-1 Misdirection
Esper: +1 Jace, +1 Pyroblast, +2 Through the Breach, +3 Pyroclasm, +1 Echoing Truth
- 1 Mountain, -2 Lotus Petal, -2 Force of Will, -3 Gitaxian Probe
1) This question has been answered over and over in this and the old thread. In short: 2-card combo having to win via attack-step > 3-card combo winning on the spot. Also better sideboard cards (Pyroclasm, Blood Moon, REB, etc.)Quote:
Originally Posted by MRTY
2) Yup, the deck does have some clunky draws.
3) I've been mulliganing very aggressively lately. Don't keep game 1 7-card-hands like FoW, Pierce, Creature, lands, without cantrips. Chances are very high that 6 cards are better. Cantrips are very good in this deck, a hand with Brainstorm and lands + random stuff like combo-pieces / counters is almost always a keep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
I have seen your decks on mtgo, and I see you have played reanimator before, too. Which deck do you think is better right now? I am playing reanimator on mtgo, and I have Shardless and Bug Delver too. I was thinking of getting rid of some of the shardless cards and starting to build sneak and show.
Reanimator has been pretty good to me, but I wonder if Sneak and Show is more consistent.
Now that Team America and Shardless BUG are back, I see no reason to play Reanimator over Sneak&Show anymore. If you want to spike a local meta full of combo-decks, Reanimator is obviously the perfect choice, but I don't like its susceptibility to cheap hate-cards like Deathrite Shaman or Grafdigger's Cage (or the other infinite 0-1 mana GY-hate-cards).Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandswamp
That's the trouble I've been having. I win a ton of game one's, then lose to some random hate card that I don't draw my answer to. I only play mtgo, and there is a ton of deathrite shamans online.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
I have some of the cards I need, but I'm stuck with what I have for a few more weeks probably.
Well, I did it. I made your exact list, downloaded it from mtggoldfish. I will let you know how it goes!Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
* It's late, I only had time for one match. 2-0'd it quickly. I think I had above average draws, turn 2 or 3 show into Griselbrand each time, with back up. It's super fun to do. Show and Tell feels so much better in this deck.
This is the one I downloaded and made.
4 Griselbrand
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Spell Pierce
4 Sneak Attack
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
4 Ponder
2 Island
4 Lotus Petal
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
1 Mountain
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Blood Moon
2 Defense Grid
1 Echoing Truth
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Through the Breach
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Pyroclasm
So, Hymn to Tourach is pretty hard on this deck. I played jund twice tonight, and it didn't go well. I only won one game. I used my brainstorm to try to shield my sneak attack and griselbrand, but the hymn hit both emrakul I had in hand, and made me shuffle.
I'm writing my next article about sneak and show, so I want to learn as much as I can. This is going to probably be the only deck I play this week.
Also, I credited JPA as the designer of the list when I added my deck list to the article. I like to give proper credit.
I write an article every week on PureMTGO.com, and this week, I wrote about Sneak and Show, if anyone is interested. http://puremtgo.com/articles/legacy-lessons-get-sneaky
Special thanks to the author of this primer, the information was extremely helpful.:smile:
You should always keep in mind that if they discard your Emmy with either hymn or spot discard you will "lose" the key card you hide with brainstorm, so you should be more tricky in most cases like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandswamp
Jund is a favorable mu in general. I think with spell pierce and misdirection, hymn is not so hard to deal with.
I have not got the time to read what you write but happy to see your article.
Very well written, comprehensive article. I'm glad the primer helped you, even though it is a little outdated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandswamp
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
Thanks man! That means a lot, especially coming from someone who is good enough with the deck to have written a primer! Hit me up on MTGO if you ever want to play a match. Unfortunately, I miss Daily Events most of the time due to having a conflicting family schedule, but I'm hoping to catch one soon.
Heys guys!
Wondering if I could get some suggestions. I would like to build Sneak and Show online but its about 1k to build which is a little ridiculous to be honest. Anyone have suggestions of how to get there, build up my acct, sell cards etc? What did you guys do? I figured some good feedback would help.
I have Sneak and Show in paper, but I really would like to play the deck a lot more (since my work schedule conflicts with weekends sometimes which all tournaments fall on:frown:
Thanks!
Hey JPA, I was checking lists on mtgtop8 and I noticed you placed 2nd in a daily with a slightly different list than what you've been running previously. I was curious what you thought of your changes and if you've liked them. I just put together your SCG indy list in paper and am trying to learn as much as I can.
I started off with a cheap burn-heavy UR Delver list in May 2014 (which obviously contained some parts of Sneak & Show already), played a ton of draft, and in ~September I had made enough profit so that Sneak & Show cost me close to 0.Quote:
Originally Posted by i_b_TRUE
I was just testing the 2nd place list from Eternal Extravaganza. It was an easy 4-0, but the list has some obvious flaws (Boseiju without Throug the Breach is nonsensical, for example) and I will stick with my own list for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MRTY
You either have to play a lot and win packs to sell, or spend money. Also, you can sell unneeded paper here: http://www.mtgotraders.com/store/papertomtgo.html and get credits for mtgo traders. You can also check out this link http://puremtgo.com/node/1451 to earn some credit to get MTGO cards, it's how I got a lot of my stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by i_b_TRUE
There was a time where I could draft and at least win some packs there or playing 2-man or 8-man ques every day, and I built up my account that way, but my schedule does't really allow for that anymore.
Hey guys ;)
Have you ever tried Izzet Charm in Sneak Show ???
greetings:smile:
Hello fellow Sneak and Show brothers!
Have we been totally pushed out of the metagame lately? Our position is just so bad with so many Delver Decks dominating in the Metagame. Combo is at a total down low...
What have you guys been brewing up to counter this hostility?
I think Izzet Charm is similar to Fire//Ice, although a little bit less versatile. Could be okay to play Charm in the 1-Misdirection-slot, if you don't expect to face that many BUG-style decks. The loot-mode of Izzet Charm also has some side bonus against Reanimator, where you could discard a Griselbrand in response to an opponent's Exhume.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartNana
To make it more clear:
Misdirection if you expect: BUG-variants, Jund, discard-heavy Esper, counter-wars
Fire // Ice if you expect: Death and Taxes, Elves, Young Pyromancer.dec
Izzet Charm if you expect: Miracles, Blade (UWR, Esper), Reanimator, any matchup where you want Spell Pierce, Death and Taxes too I guess (to break the pre-board Revoker+Karakas lock)
No, we haven't. I like our position, it's basically the same as before Treasure Cruise. One new matchup I have found highly annoying, though, is Grixis Control, which is pretty popular on MTGO. Especially the post-board games can be very frustrating, since you can't really board Defense Grid against a Cabal Therapy deck, but often get drowned in counters (FoW, Pierce, Counterspell, Flusterstorm, REB). Pyroclasm can buy you some time, considering their weakness is very low threat-density, but I haven't found an effective way to improve the matchup yet and my post-board record against them is pretty terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
Besides that, I feel Sneak & Show is as strong a deck as ever and I definitely plan on playing it at SCG Worcester in May.
Thanks for the quick reply JPA :) I will be playing at GP Kyoto this weekend but still not sure about our position. I know the way to beat Delver is to use Defense Grids but our win ratio against them post board is still very small. I would understand the Grixis matchup because they have Cabal Therapy and it is very hard to battle that card. I would try to scout the metagame during the LCQ Days if our favorite deck can stand a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA
Good luck at the GP! Even without Defense Grid, the post-board Delver matchup is pretty even in my opinion. UWR can be really annoying with their combination of permanent-based hate and counters, but RUG and BUG are close matches I usually enjoy playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
@JPA
What do you think about Misdirection back in the main? So far the meta here is mostly BUG Delver and BG Decks like JUND, Shardless, Elves and Deathblade.
Most prevalent colors are black and blue. Tempting to put Leyline back..
My List so far is:
2 JTMS
1 Dig
3 Probe
3 Spell Pierce
And then the stock list..
SB is
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm
2 Grafidiggers
2 Flusterstorm
2 Omniscience
1 DTT
1 Boseiju
1 Wipe Away
What do you think?
@blindspot: My opinion on Leyline is still the same as ever, I don't like it at all, even in the "right" metagame.
I would definitely play a 1-of Misdirection in the main deck. Other than that, your main seems good to me.
Concerning your sideboard: Boseiju without Through the Breach is nonsense, in my opinion. I don't like Omniscience, unless you expect a ton of Mirror/Reanimator/ContainmentPriest.dec.
I would recommend swapping the 2 Omniscience for 2 Through the Breach.
hello JPA since you are very willing to give advice, especially against us players who are learning recently,
to play this deck, I wanted to ask what are your side in / out in these metch up (with the list you posted lately):
- BUG control (shardless)
- BUG Delver
- Patriot (UWR Delver)
I ask this because even if the preceding pages I read something about this information I do not know if they are updated on the current metagame.
I also believe that for a player who started playing a new deck to know how to do the side in / out is one of the most important things.
thanks in advance for your help !!!
My current list for reference:Quote:
Originally Posted by mariobross
1 Dig Through Time
1 Misdirection
3 Spell Pierce
4 Gitaxian Probe
The rest is stock (19 lands with 5 sol-lands, 4 Tarn, 3 blue fetches, 3 Volc, 3 Island, 1 Mountain)
Sideboard:
2 Defense Grid
3 Pyroclasm
1 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blood Moon
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach
As always, these are just guidelines and I will adjust my own boarding depending on which sideboard cards I see, whether I'm on the draw or the play, etc.
Shardless BUG:
+1 Pyroblast, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Blood Moon, +1 or 2 Echoing Truth, +2 Through the Breach
there are different options for boarding out, most of the time it's some combination of Gitaxian Probe, Force of Will, Lotus Petal and sometimes 1 Emrakul
BUG Delver:
That's a real tough one, especially since there are two different versions now (Stifle/Confi and Hymn/Lili). Against the Stifle/Confidant version you definitely want Pyroclasm and maybe Defense Grid, in addition to the standard boarding plan of Blood Moon, Pyroblast, Flusterstorm, and 1 or 2 Echoing Truth. You can board out some amount of Forces and Gitaxian Probes, maybe even a creature or two.
UWR Delver:
+1 Pyroblast, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Blood Moon (I don't like them on the draw in this matchup, though), +3 Pyroclasm, +2 Defense Grid, +2 Echoing Truth
-2 to 4 Force of Will, -2 to 4 Gitaxian Probe, other cards that could be boarded out are Misdirection, Dig Through Time (not that good against a REB-deck), 1-2 creatures and Spell Pierce (because they don't have Planeswalkers and you have more effective ways to counter their counters in Flusterstorm, Pyroblast and Defense Grid, as well as a ton of must-counter spells).
I hope this helps.
Just wondering. Does this deck have a good matchup against omnitell!?
Fairly decent, as you are just quickerQuote:
Originally Posted by janluis1
Are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
I've seen Omni lists running 5 soul lands and petals, they win the turn they play Omni almost without fail, where we sometimes hit challenges.
I think this match isn't as favorable as you think, if anything I think Omni may have advantage here.
I have not played this deck recently so I may be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon
The old-version of omnitel is favorable for us, but I think DTT changed thing quite a bit. It is much more dangerous to show a griselbrand now than before, because draw 7 is not big issue for them anymore, even they can respond to fetch a stifle or trickbind to counter the ability, which would be brutal...
If u sit back hoping to resolve a sneakattack without tapping out, it will give them more time to find gas through DTT and very probably u lose the counterwar...
So I think this may not be a good match-up any longer.
I think the only pro for playing sneakshow over omnitel is its explosiveness, they very often need to fow a turn one delver on the draw, while we can neglect the insect in most cases.
I think that sneak and show is also more consistent at hitting a combo. It has 8 enablers and 8 targets, while Omni only has 4/4-6. While Omnitell is almost guaranteed to go off and win the turn it resolves Show and Tell, they can sometimes get stuck looking for show and tell/Omni.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinZ
I've found the matchup to be quite in favor of sneak attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon
If they go show & tell to cast omniscience, you can put griselbrand into play, respond to their next cast by drawing 14, and win from there. Since this makes resolving show and tell very risky for them, and sneak attack is a lot easier to cast then omniscience, you are in a great spot from there. Boarding in red blasts and a singleton defense grid I go into this matchup with confidence. Finally access to pyroclasm and blood moon beats the mono-blue approach in my experience.
But drawing too many fatties or mana like petals could happen, in terms of consistency omnitel si obviously better.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkfrosting
This mu used to be and still is a grinding mu to some degree, scrupting a perfect hand first and then finding a chance to move. As I said above they can cast cunning wish responding to your drawing seven, fetching a trickbind or stifle to counter u.Quote:
Originally Posted by s&s