[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

Reanimator and TES are unwinnable if they open god hands, sometimes that just happens. Don't be afraid to throw a Pierce or REB at their Brainstorms, they tend to use them as a crutch moreso than other decks. Vortex is great against certain builds of Miracle like the creatureless builds, but against the Lossett builds it can be pretty bad sometimes. I've heard of people boarding out some number of Wastelands here since it's really hard to get good value out of them against good players, and it increases your live draws in the mid-late game. I haven't personally tried this yet but I do like the idea of it, it obviously depends on their build a lot since their manabases tend to vary in the Karakas and Mystic Gate region. Shardless is a pretty even matchup where I would say Mongoose is MVP if you can't tempo them out with delver backed up by soft counters. It might be worth it to keep some number of Forces in here since they have so many cards that we just die to if they resolve (lily, jace, ancestral). I think it might be a good move to change the TNN in the main to a Vendilion Clique. It's better against all these decks except Shardless.

Good luck, bring that A game sir Dr. Doctor sir.

My current sb:
1 VClique
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Spell pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
2 Rough/Tumble
3 Submerge
3 REB
That's my current sideboard and I never had a problem with miracles I cut - 4 lightning Bolt - 2 Forked bolt bring in 3 REB Vclique Spell Pierce and Krosan Grip. I was play testing against shardless bug last night and was doing fairly well, I learned to save your submerge for DRS if you can't bolt him. I feel extremely confident and comfortable with my current sideboard in the meta without needles. The deck is not a pick up and play deck. It is a high skill intensive deck with many not so easy decisions to be made when playing, especially in games 2 and 3. Git probe to me feels like a win more card and I no longer play it. Honestly if you pay 6 burn spells md DRS should not be a problem. The deck has longevity in legacy and proves time and time again that it has a staying power. Last note watch for BUG decks playing chill now in the sideboard as or for any deck for that matter, now that burn is on the rise so will that. Keep your eyes open.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShiftyKapree

My current sb:
1 VClique
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Spell pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
2 Rough/Tumble
3 Submerge
3 REB
That's my current sideboard and I never had a problem with miracles I cut - 4 lightning Bolt - 2 Forked bolt bring in 3 REB Vclique Spell Pierce and Krosan Grip. I was play testing against shardless bug last night and was doing fairly well, I learned to save your submerge for DRS if you can't bolt him. I feel extremely confident and comfortable with my current sideboard in the meta without needles. The deck is not a pick up and play deck. It is a high skill intensive deck with many not so easy decisions to be made when playing, especially in games 2 and 3. Git probe to me feels like a win more card and I no longer play it. Honestly if you pay 6 burn spells md DRS should not be a problem. The deck has longevity in legacy and proves time and time again that it has a staying power. Last note watch for BUG decks playing chill now in the sideboard as or for any deck for that matter, now that burn is on the rise so will that. Keep your eyes open.

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personally, I never cut the bolts in the match up, usually my dudes do about 10-12, and they fetch 3-4 times, leaving blots just lethal cards.

Is Sulfuric Vortex versatile enough to warrant a spot in the SB? Its good against miracles obviously, and decent against batterskull I guess? but what else...? I'm not sure if its versatile enough.

I was playing with my friend on cockatrice. 15 matches, multiple games post board and multiple games preboard.

I was on RUG, 54 + snare, + pierce, + forked bolt.

He was on TA

I only won 1 game out of 30 games. The only time I got ahead of him was a stifle waste strategy which actually worked. Other than that, he was drawing better and stabilized much better even after early disruption.

I tried playing a more control way, then a more aggressive way, but the results are the same. We even let each other take back misplays, but he just outdrew me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rlesko

Is Sulfuric Vortex versatile enough to warrant a spot in the SB? Its good against miracles obviously, and decent against batterskull I guess? but what else...? I'm not sure if its versatile enough.

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Sylvan Library

Kobe, I have no idea how that is even possible honestly. Bolts get aimed at Delver and Shaman, while Snare and Force take care of Goyf or Liliana. How long have you been playing RUG and how are you sideboarding? Maybe we can help you out if you give us more information about how you're playing the matchup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Sylvan Library

Kobe, I have no idea how that is even possible honestly. Bolts get aimed at Delver and Shaman, while Snare and Force take care of Goyf or Liliana. How long have you been playing RUG and how are you sideboarding? Maybe we can help you out if you give us more information about how you're playing the matchup.

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boarding

2 submerge, 2 REB, out 4 FOW.

I dont even know how that is possible. I tried every possible way of play style. My opponent on cockatrice is someone I playtest quite a bit with too. we let each other take moves back to optimize our plays

I would bolt a delver, or shaman. The goyfs usually stick around and make a stall for ground wars, unless i can chump block a goyf and bolt it thereafter a block with mongoose. if the stall goes on, he usually wins because his removal suites are much better than mine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

boarding

2 submerge, 2 REB, out 4 FOW.

I dont even know how that is possible. I tried every possible way of play style. My opponent on cockatrice is someone I playtest quite a bit with too. we let each other take moves back to optimize our plays

I would bolt a delver, or shaman. The goyfs usually stick around and make a stall for ground wars, unless i can chump block a goyf and bolt it thereafter a block with mongoose. if the stall goes on, he usually wins because his removal suites are much better than mine.

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It's a bad match up. I can usually go somewhere in the 40 - 45% range, but its still favored for them like 60%. They can kill our goyfs much easier deathrite makes mana denial harder unless you can remove it asap. I'm not saying the match up is horrible but don't be surprised if you lose it.

For a meta full of bug tempo, i would recommend changing the threat package and pack ooze + grim + tnn in, as a top32 list did at GP Paris. Something like this :

2 tnn
3 tarmogoyf
2 ooze
2 grim
4 delver

and 19 lands.

Or get 4 submerge in your sb :)

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Originally Posted by JosephK

For a meta full of bug tempo, i would recommend changing the threat package and pack ooze + grim + tnn in, as a top32 list did at GP Paris. Something like this :

2 tnn
3 tarmogoyf
2 ooze
2 grim
4 delver

and 19 lands.

Or get 4 submerge in your sb :)

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Personally I'm not a fan of that list (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=7770&f=LE). It should be noted though that if you do go that route shave a stifle and daze because you're going for more of a long game where both of those will lose value. In addition add in a taiga as a fourth green source for scooze. I mean I could see something like core 52 with 2 TNNs and shaving the 4th stifle for a basic island. TNN would definitely help in the bug match up and any other fair match up for that matter. I'm still not on board with this though because it makes our combo match ups so much worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

boarding

2 submerge, 2 REB, out 4 FOW.

I dont even know how that is possible. I tried every possible way of play style. My opponent on cockatrice is someone I playtest quite a bit with too. we let each other take moves back to optimize our plays

I would bolt a delver, or shaman. The goyfs usually stick around and make a stall for ground wars, unless i can chump block a goyf and bolt it thereafter a block with mongoose. if the stall goes on, he usually wins because his removal suites are much better than mine.

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You need that 3rd Submerge, that card wins games singlehandedly, then depending on if I see TNN or not I board in 1 REB or Vclique or a Spell Pierce. The match-up does take practice to playout the situations you are faced with. If you play 3 submerge you should be fine if you take DRS off the board. And you are correct with boarding out FOW.

Hi all! This is my first time posting here. I read through the past few pages before a local Legacy tournament and decided to run 2 pithing needle main. Here's the list I ran:

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver
4 Goyf
4 Mongoose

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Stifle
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Pithing Needle
1 Forked Bolt
2 Spell Pierce

SB
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Submerge
2 Rough/Tumble
1 Forked Bolt
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Spell Pierce
1 REB
1 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Zuran Orb (for the rising number of budget burn players running Eidolon)

1st Match: Elves 2-1
Game 1: Drew mostly blue cards and was overrun by grindy little green men. He was running 3 Gitaxian Probes main which allowed him to play around my counterspells.

SB +2 Rough/Tumble, +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Clique
-1 Nimble Mongoose, -2 Daze, -1 FoW, -1 Gitaxian Probe

Game 2: Locked down with Grafdigger's Cage and Needle on Wirewood Symbiote, which allowed Forked Bolt to do some damage.

SB +1 FoW, -1 Probe, -2 Stifle, +2 Submerge

Game 3: I remember this game going long, with Tarmogoyf and Delver teaming up to kill a Ruric Thar. I was able to draw both Forked Bolts and 2 lightning bolts to manage his board and seal the win.

2nd Match: Stoneblade Thopter 2-0

Game 1: Wastelands and stifles fly around until I leave him stuck on one land. He is unable to cast any more spells and my creatures go in for the kill.
I didn't see enough of his deck, but an early probe revealed a Supreme Verdict so I thought he was on Miracles.

SB +1 Pyro, +1 REB, +1 Spell Pierce -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Daze

Game 2: An early Stoneforge Mystic gets dazed. Delver and Lightning bolts finish the game quickly.

After the game, I talked to him to find out what he was running.

3rd Match: Stax 2-0

Game 1: I keep a hand with Force of Will. He opens with Ancient Tomb into Chalice for one, which meets my Force of Will. He then plays Wasteland and casts Crucible of Worlds. I play Pithing Needle naming Wasteland. He drops another wasteland and casts Bottled Cloister. I end up riding two tarmogoyfs while my counters and bolts keep his side of the board clear of any action.

SB: +1 Jace, +1 Grudge, +1 Revelry, +1 Clique, -1 Mongoose, -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Probe, -1 Daze

Game 2: He manages to ramp mana out quickly and casts Wurmcoil Engine on turn three using Cavern of Souls. I take two hits to the face while desperately digging for answers. I cast Jace, bounce his wurmcoil and pass the turn. My delver flips and swings and I bolt a Lodestone Golem. Jace Brainstorms and bounces Wurmcoil when it goes down again. At this point, he is at forty life from Glimmerposts and Vesuvas. I dig up destructive revelry while the wurmcoil attacks. I topdeck a mongoose and sacrifice a delver to get rid of both tokens. He puts down a Ratchet Bomb to try and hit Jace, but a Pithing Needle puts a stop to that plan. I manage to stabilize and use Jace to finish the game.

4th Match: Win and in vs. Shardless Bug 2-0

Game 1: Stifle with Daze backup is followed by two delvers and a Wasteland. His Deathrite Shaman eats a Forked Bolt while our Goyf gridlock is solved by a lightning bolt.

SB: +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Clique, -1 Mongoose, -1 Probe

Game 2: He keeps a two-land hand which eats a Wasteland. I blindly name Verdant Catacombs with Pithing Needle. He topdecks Verdant Catacombs and puts it into play. A delver backed by a lightning bolt finishes the game.

I intentionally draw my final two matches since I was a lock for top8. In the quarterfinals, I lose, 0-2 against Esper Stoneblade.

My sideboarding felt very suboptimal and I was uncertain about the number of probes I was running, but the Pithing Needles were good all day. I definitely see myself running 2-3 between the main and the sideboard in the near future. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyreii

Hi all! This is my first time posting here. I read through the past few pages before a local Legacy tournament and decided to run 2 pithing needle main. Here's the list I ran:

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver
4 Goyf
4 Mongoose

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Stifle
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Pithing Needle
1 Forked Bolt
2 Spell Pierce

SB
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Submerge
2 Rough/Tumble
1 Forked Bolt
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Spell Pierce
1 REB
1 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Zuran Orb (for the rising number of budget burn players running Eidolon)

1st Match: Elves 2-1
Game 1: Drew mostly blue cards and was overrun by grindy little green men. He was running 3 Gitaxian Probes main which allowed him to play around my counterspells.

SB +2 Rough/Tumble, +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Clique
-1 Nimble Mongoose, -2 Daze, -1 FoW, -1 Gitaxian Probe

Game 2: Locked down with Grafdigger's Cage and Needle on Wirewood Symbiote, which allowed Forked Bolt to do some damage.

SB +1 FoW, -1 Probe, -2 Stifle, +2 Submerge

Game 3: I remember this game going long, with Tarmogoyf and Delver teaming up to kill a Ruric Thar. I was able to draw both Forked Bolts and 2 lightning bolts to manage his board and seal the win.

2nd Match: Stoneblade Thopter 2-0

Game 1: Wastelands and stifles fly around until I leave him stuck on one land. He is unable to cast any more spells and my creatures go in for the kill.
I didn't see enough of his deck, but an early probe revealed a Supreme Verdict so I thought he was on Miracles.

SB +1 Pyro, +1 REB, +1 Spell Pierce -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Daze

Game 2: An early Stoneforge Mystic gets dazed. Delver and Lightning bolts finish the game quickly.

After the game, I talked to him to find out what he was running.

3rd Match: Stax 2-0

Game 1: I keep a hand with Force of Will. He opens with Ancient Tomb into Chalice for one, which meets my Force of Will. He then plays Wasteland and casts Crucible of Worlds. I play Pithing Needle naming Wasteland. He drops another wasteland and casts Bottled Cloister. I end up riding two tarmogoyfs while my counters and bolts keep his side of the board clear of any action.

SB: +1 Jace, +1 Grudge, +1 Revelry, +1 Clique, -1 Mongoose, -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Probe, -1 Daze

Game 2: He manages to ramp mana out quickly and casts Wurmcoil Engine on turn three using Cavern of Souls. I take two hits to the face while desperately digging for answers. I cast Jace, bounce his wurmcoil and pass the turn. My delver flips and swings and I bolt a Lodestone Golem. Jace Brainstorms and bounces Wurmcoil when it goes down again. At this point, he is at forty life from Glimmerposts and Vesuvas. I dig up destructive revelry while the wurmcoil attacks. I topdeck a mongoose and sacrifice a delver to get rid of both tokens. He puts down a Ratchet Bomb to try and hit Jace, but a Pithing Needle puts a stop to that plan. I manage to stabilize and use Jace to finish the game.

4th Match: Win and in vs. Shardless Bug 2-0

Game 1: Stifle with Daze backup is followed by two delvers and a Wasteland. His Deathrite Shaman eats a Forked Bolt while our Goyf gridlock is solved by a lightning bolt.

SB: +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Clique, -1 Mongoose, -1 Probe

Game 2: He keeps a two-land hand which eats a Wasteland. I blindly name Verdant Catacombs with Pithing Needle. He topdecks Verdant Catacombs and puts it into play. A delver backed by a lightning bolt finishes the game.

I intentionally draw my final two matches since I was a lock for top8. In the quarterfinals, I lose, 0-2 against Esper Stoneblade.

My sideboarding felt very suboptimal and I was uncertain about the number of probes I was running, but the Pithing Needles were good all day. I definitely see myself running 2-3 between the main and the sideboard in the near future. :)

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Congrats on the wins dude. I'm glad the needles seemed to work well for you all day. How was the elves match up? I've played it once with my needles list and while it did work (needle on wirewood and quirion that game) he was able to just overwhelm me with many green men. I kept a can trip / disruption hand and couldn't find a clock fast enough.

Your list looks a lot better than mine to be honest. I liked the 3 probes and 3 needles as a starting point, but I'm still not sure if I want to go down from them. There's something to be gained from just having perfect information so the 3 probes I like. The 3 needles seem slightly sub optimal and worth shaving one, but there's also the consistency factor that I like. Forked bolt is a great silver bullet to have though which I would love to find room for. Spell pierce is also great all day any day and 2 seems really good.

I would recommend breaking up your fetches some (2/2/2/2 or 4rg/1u/1u/1u/1u are probably the best). It's so nice to be able to name fetches. That's partially why I like the 3 probes, 3 needles in addition to 4 stifles 4 wastelands main deck. You get so much land disruption and can have them play into your dazes more effectively. Or you know you just get more hands of "well Wasteland check, stifle check, needle as second stifle on a stick check... hmmm guess I'll be the only one play magic this game".

Major props for naming Verdant catacombs blind against Shardless. I probably would have just chickened out and named Deathrite (so much value). Something about the fact that they can have a mix of 3 fetches makes me leery of naming any one in particular. Then again that's when probability comes into play. We can look at what they've already played (including games 1 & 2) and determine the best choice for what they could have. So far I've found that naming Deathrite against BGx builds almost always seems right, but maybe just being more aggressive in naming fetches is better.

Hopefully the needles continue to put up results for you. I'm particularly interested if you get any testing in against deathblade or D&T. Those are both popular decks and if needle makes these match ups better I could see them really gaining value in the main deck. I mean it already makes the miracles match up at least 65% or better main deck which is great since apparently people like that deck :rolleyes:. It's not like miracles was horrible to begin with, but I'm always open for added win percentages.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Contract Killer

Congrats on the wins dude. I'm glad the needles seemed to work well for you all day. How was the elves match up? I've played it once with my needles list and while it did work (needle on wirewood and quirion that game) he was able to just overwhelm me with many green men. I kept a can trip / disruption hand and couldn't find a clock fast enough.

Your list looks a lot better than mine to be honest. I liked the 3 probes and 3 needles as a starting point, but I'm still not sure if I want to go down from them. There's something to be gained from just having perfect information so the 3 probes I like. The 3 needles seem slightly sub optimal and worth shaving one, but there's also the consistency factor that I like. Forked bolt is a great silver bullet to have though which I would love to find room for. Spell pierce is also great all day any day and 2 seems really good.

I would recommend breaking up your fetches some (2/2/2/2 or 4rg/1u/1u/1u/1u are probably the best). It's so nice to be able to name fetches. That's partially why I like the 3 probes, 3 needles in addition to 4 stifles 4 wastelands main deck. You get so much land disruption and can have them play into your dazes more effectively. Or you know you just get more hands of "well Wasteland check, stifle check, needle as second stifle on a stick check... hmmm guess I'll be the only one play magic this game".

Major props for naming Verdant catacombs blind against Shardless. I probably would have just chickened out and named Deathrite (so much value). Something about the fact that they can have a mix of 3 fetches makes me leery of naming any one in particular. Then again that's when probability comes into play. We can look at what they've already played (including games 1 & 2) and determine the best choice for what they could have. So far I've found that naming Deathrite against BGx builds almost always seems right, but maybe just being more aggressive in naming fetches is better.

Hopefully the needles continue to put up results for you. I'm particularly interested if you get any testing in against deathblade or D&T. Those are both popular decks and if needle makes these match ups better I could see them really gaining value in the main deck. I mean it already makes the miracles match up at least 65% or better main deck which is great since apparently people like that deck :rolleyes:. It's not like miracles was horrible to begin with, but I'm always open for added win percentages.

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Thanks! I put in the needles the night before when I saw it on this thread. I'm still playing around with the six cards, but I like having 2-3 pithing between the main and board.

From experience, I usually lose game 1 against elves and transition to a burn-heavy deck in games 2 and 3. Mongoose goes out for Vendilion Clique for another threat with evasion. Rough/Tumble is a house, especially now that I can name Symbiote. Resolving two burn spells during turns 2-4 usually wins the game against elves.

As for the fetches, I should have broken them up, but people were borrowing my modern fetchlands and I didn't have Wooded Foothills yet. :P But I agree with the decision to split. I will be running 2-2-2-2 until I get some Foothills. I named Verdant Catacombs blind because I really didn't have anything to cast, had one mana open for Daze, float-1-return island to hand shenanigans and he was stuck on a basic forest.

Still have to test against DnT. I'm hoping forked bolt will prove useful. Deathblade, well, I still haven't won against that deck using RUG or Elves. :rolleyes:

(4-2) 12th place, 50+ man tourney DUEL4DUALS July 20, 2014

games went well, as i nailed matches i was expecting to win (vs combos), got me a surprise W too vs an archetype i feared, piloted by one of the best players here in the land. lost games to unexpected decks and had me rethinking of one card...DISMEMBER, (well if only they didnt print Eidolon, burn will not show up these days and i’d play it! haha!). meta was wild! lots of burn, mud, snt,sfm decks...some rogue decks appeared too..i guess it was only me and my teammate Erik (KYREII) that sleeved up RUG that day (he top’ed 8 with maindecked 3 probes 2 needles if im correct, briefly discussed his new twist and as he was bout to start the playoffs, i decided to go early coz it’s raining real heavy last night, his awesome list is posted ^)

Round 1 (2-0 vs merfolks)
my burn heavy built RUG gave me some confidence, but facing my friend Bernz (when he shows up, often times you’ll see this guy on the TOP8), i know im in for a big battle..
G1 when i drew double goyfs and my lone TARFIRE with a delver made it an easy finish for me..i bolted 2 lords too and his cursecatchers were too late rescuing their prized lords..
G2 early delver again, never saw any vials both games, so when i drew 1 of 2 needles...i named mutavault so i could increase damage with unthreshed goose..he never was able to established a good clock with tons of burn and pyroblasts..goyfs never came but when i thought i’ll be very ahead even if im holding a Rough..i inserted in my TNN on the board for the final points of damage.
(-4fows, -4dazes, -2pierces / + 2roughs, 3pyroblasts, 1TNN, 2needles, 1grudge, 1revelry)

Round 2 (0-2 vs monoblack obliterator)
G1 and this very deck exists!..he had a slow start but managed to squeeze in his Phyrexian Obliterator after he duressed me, and that was game for me...earlier, i countered a jitte and a disfigure to keep my delver, expecting to get ahead, but felt short still, as he has lots of removals via malakirs and Lotv.
G2 i didnt board out my counters as it was the only answers to his Obliterators..i got a good clock via Cliq, but still wasnt able to manage to draw even any fow or daze when he starts unloading 2 obliterators that send me packing.
(-1 forked bolt, -1tarfire, -1stifle / +1 pierce, +2 needles, for DRS and SDT)

Round 3 (2-0 vs sneakshow)
G1 he mulled to 5 and never really got it going, denying him of colored mana he needs to cantrip via stifling fetches..
coming in to G2, he’s giving me comments like “RUG? thought it was not a deck these days”, i just smiled back, (but my mind’s telling him, im gonna crush you in a bit buddy!)
G2 was slow..as he was able to reb my early Cliq, and i never drew any relevant threat..he Bloodmooned, i responded fetching Trop, floated green and resolved his enchantment..eot D’revelried it and saved still all important permissions for Show.. resolved a Needle naming Sneak and was expecting him to counter my very late goyf which he didnt, thus putting him in real big trouble...he probed me and saw surgical, 2pyroblasts, 2 pierces, 2 fows, 1 snare...he conceded. didnt board out snares for Defense grids and Pyroclasms...mvp here was A.grudge! destroyed 2 petals when he wasnt doing anything and made my pierces live even in the middle of the game.
(-1tarfire, -1forked bolt, -2goose, 1TNN, 4bolts / + 3pyroblasts, 1pierce, 1 surgical, 1 ancient grudge, 1 destructive revelry, 2needles)

Round 4 (2-0 vs TES)
G1 wasted his Usea and knowing he’s struggling to get another land...i decided to counter his 2 chromes, delver got him to 10, but that was it for me with no hand, when he drew a swamp and started to ramp for Adnaus..i was just waiting for him to finish me off... but he Adnaused only twice revealing an ETW (-4) and a Tendrils! (-5) just a lucky day for me i guess!
G2 where both of my Snares are key to his Burning Wish and Infernal Tutor.
(- 1tarfire, 1forked, 3goose, 1TNN / + 1 graf, 1 surgical, 1 pierce, 2 roughs, 1 ancient grudge)
bolts are key here for xanthids, and by hitting them, it made adnaus a weaker engine for their multiple draws..

Round 5 (1-2 vs jund loam)
here’s where im missed my 3rd submerge! lots of annoying crits vs scooze and kotrs and drs..got game 2 via multiple delvers and a TNN, left in fows still game 3 coz he has Chalices main and i hated that.. G3 got me 2 delvers, and with him flipping kotrs on his confidant, i know im in good shape...but then again three turns my delvers didnt able to get to the sky..it was just this very game it happened to me! left me short for a top8 position, winning this would land me to fifth.. : (

Round 6 (2-0 vs ur nivmagus)
countered 2 nivmagus as i hate losing again to 4up TOUGHNESS crits! goyfs got there and made it difficult for his grims to make relevant damages to me midgame...game 2 where i landed my 2nd TNN as it was just blocking a big nivmagus and the other attacking him...my mind was still on the delvers that didnt flipped match 5, atleast i was able to get a good finish still by pulling off the last 2 games..

first time i played with 1 less STIFLE to squeeze in a 2nd SNARE, not much of a difference as i drew them both still with consistency, i think ill be going 3 stifles for the moment..im thinking of inserting in back the 3rd submerge... i just hate losing to random kotr.dec..or a dismember if ever ill be facing that obliterator again haha! over-all the list was solid, expecting a meta-filled with miracles, burn, sfms, tnns, snts, dnts and up’ed snare count to 2.

THE BUILT
everything usual with these tweaks...3stifles, 2pierces, 2snares, 1forked, 1f/ice, 1tarfire, 3goose, 3goyfs, 1vcliq, 1TNN

HELPERS
3 pyroblasts, 2 needles (just loving them!), 1TNN, 1ancient grudge, 1destructive revelry, 2roughs. 1 graf, 1 surgical, 1pierce, 2submerge

thanks guys for reading! GO RUG!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyreii

Thanks! I put in the needles the night before when I saw it on this thread. I'm still playing around with the six cards, but I like having 2-3 pithing between the main and board.

From experience, I usually lose game 1 against elves and transition to a burn-heavy deck in games 2 and 3. Mongoose goes out for Vendilion Clique for another threat with evasion. Rough/Tumble is a house, especially now that I can name Symbiote. Resolving two burn spells during turns 2-4 usually wins the game against elves.

As for the fetches, I should have broken them up, but people were borrowing my modern fetchlands and I didn't have Wooded Foothills yet. :P But I agree with the decision to split. I will be running 2-2-2-2 until I get some Foothills. I named Verdant Catacombs blind because I really didn't have anything to cast, had one mana open for Daze, float-1-return island to hand shenanigans and he was stuck on a basic forest.

Still have to test against DnT. I'm hoping forked bolt will prove useful. Deathblade, well, I still haven't won against that deck using RUG or Elves. :rolleyes:

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Deathblade is a hard match up to begin with. I've played 2 or 3 games against it with my build and Needle on deathrite really hurts that deck. It has a stupidly greedy mana base to begin with and needle on deathrite can end with them falling under the weight of their own mana costs. It's really hard for them to cast stuff like abrupt decay, Liliana and supreme verdict if they have no deathrites.

I'll be playing my list tomorrow (probably same 60 main deck) in my local weekly. In addition I will probably get the chance to test some of those match ups and hopefully get good results :D.

@contract killer: when i saw KYREII last night, i told him to visit this forum, mentioned to him i saw an interesting list with ur probing needle built...he was just smiling at me, not knowing he's sleeving up that list haha!

@kyreii: and it surprised me we're both 1 less stifle upon checking ur list! well u knew it once u checked my binder with a lone judge stifle in there haha!

what do you guys think about nimble mongoose in general now in the metagame - is goose still the loose?
Honestly I liked the little beast alot in 2012 when there was no deathrite shaman but nowadays it's actually pretty hard to get threshold when you face an opposing shaman.
but even if there is no shaman on the other side of the table it's still turn 4 or 5 when goose grows and that's already the midgame when other creatures dominate the board like tarmogoyfs,tnn or knight of the reliquary.

I'm currently thinkin about 4 Delver 4 Tarmogoy 2 Grim Lavamancer and 1 Vendillion Clique/Snapcaster Mage to have a better game against our 'bad' matchups like jund and death&taxes.Sure the miracle matchup gets a bit worse but rug has already a good miracle-mu so it should be ok.

thoughts?

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

what do you guys think about nimble mongoose in general now in the metagame - is goose still the loose?
Honestly I liked the little beast alot in 2012 when there was no deathrite shaman but nowadays it's actually pretty hard to get threshold when you face an opposing shaman.
but even if there is no shaman on the other side of the table it's still turn 4 or 5 when goose grows and that's already the midgame when other creatures dominate the board like tarmogoyfs,tnn or knight of the reliquary.

I'm currently thinkin about 4 Delver 4 Tarmogoy 2 Grim Lavamancer and 1 Vendillion Clique/Snapcaster Mage to have a better game against our 'bad' matchups like jund and death&taxes.Sure the miracle matchup gets a bit worse but rug has already a good miracle-mu so it should be ok.

thoughts?

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MD needle

You may either try to make mongoose faster with Mental Note 2.0 and such, but then you got a deck full of otherwise useless stuff. Or you may try Needle which simultaneously stops DRS and has other applications.
I would cut one Mongoose. I may see myself going down to 3-of, esp. in a build with TNN/Clique. But Mongoose is still the most resilient creature we may get. Also, while it takes time to grow, don't forget that sometimes it's the only reliable and playble threat we got, as Goyf is expensive and Delver dies to a stronger fart. Instead of seeing mongoose as a slow clock, see it as a threat that continues to deal dmg while leaving you with open mana (thanks to low cmc and in-built protection). All other creatures that the opponent may throw in front of your mongoose, may be dealt with, be it any x/2 dude that UWR/RUG/bUrg/BUG/Jund may offer or any hatebear from DnT that dies to our removal, Goyf that may be hit by Snare/Daze/Force, KotR/TNN that are super reliant on a solid manabase, etc. You play mongoose on your first or second turn, and then simply fire-and-forget it; you let it deal dmg or w-e, while you concentrate on the new tasks that every new turn brings.

any thoughts on m15's QUICKLING?

-
requires target...well, goose might have a new friend, so no way of 2 for 1-ing us once it hits play.
any 2cc is considered slow for this deck

+
evade, can swing stalled ground battles..
better plaxmanta? saves some of our crits to adecay, removal...
it's blue..

i'll be giving this guy a test...see where it goes...

the deck has no room for such cute cards like quickling, most of the time we will have an opening 7 with just the quickling as the only creature.
if we need protection for our beatsticks we still have access to 4 spell pierce.

If it's stat line was stronger, maybe. But a 2/2 for 2 that slows your tempo and clogs up your early hands? Not worth for something Divert could do and for half the cost.

So I've been a bit MIA lately with some other life things going on. That aside back onto magic. After testing needle I just don't think it can make the main deck cut. There were many times I was happy with it and others it bricked.

More to the point while needle can be good the card kind of drags the game on longer by still leaving creatures on the battlefield. It might take away the "threat" of the creature, but they still have a body to block with and/or eat goose sometimes. The best analogy I've found so far was by a friend (who's a lot better at legacy than me for that matter) that said "needle is just really volatile". The card can have some stupidly broken starts I played the mirror and had turn 1 probe into needle naming tarn which he had 2 of in hand and those were his only lands.

What do you guys think about the list that took second at Kansas? Overall it's a fairly stock list, but I'm curious if anyone has had success with Cursed Totem? Seems like it could be really good for the Elves, D&T, Deathblade and other match ups where creatures play a key role.

Currently I'm looking at going to a two fairly large events coming up soon probably around 70+ people. This is what I'm looking at playing or at least something along these lines:
54 Core
3 chain lightning
1 forked bolt
2 spell pierce

Sideboard:
2 submerge

2 pyroblast
2 flusterstorm
1 vendilion clique
1 sylvan library

1 sulfur elemental
2 rough and tumble

1 ancient grudge
1 destructive revelry

2 grafdigger's cage

To be perfectly honest I think the burn heavy list is actually quite good. It has really consistent hands that always have answers for deathrite/mom/stoneforge. It can grow goose fast in some matches like Miracles and create a really fast clock out of nowhere. Even against combo it can give you enough extra reach to close the game out 1 turn closer or shut off their forces and push them to the breaking point.

The slight change from my older burn list is the single forked bolt and lack of sylvan in the main. Goyf is just all around consistently better even if library can draw into burn/broken combinations like wasteland/stifle + daze. Forked bolt while it's 1 less damage I think has more value as a silver bullet than the fourth chain lightning. The one damage can be game deciding, but it has so much potential against elves/D&T. Forked bolt is also safer with Burn on the rise.

Even with burn becoming more popular I think the chain lightnings are still fine. They tend to tap out or at least only have 1 mana up playing around daze most likely. That being said chain lightning just needs to be used very cautiously and it should be fine. People also won't expect it and will probably not play with leaving mana up for if you do have chain lightning.

@CK: been always a fan of the heavy burn RUG built, but what i dont like bout chain lightnings are its inability to interact, instantly... i always love burning T1 drs when im on the play and waste'ing the nextturn and opening mana up still for another stifle, pierce or land a delver or ponder..or burning something upon equipping is a real good tempo move...not really worried bout BURN utilizing our own chains, RUG is skill intensive and i think most pilots know how to properly use it (chains) against any deck carrying red.

my 7 burn built that's been doing great for me so far is very diverse (1 fice, 1 forked, 1tarfire, 4 lightnings)
2snares has been an inclusion to me lately with the rise of Progress, meta-filled with sfm, rips, cblances....and since im carrying my own tnns...it can interact still with Zpersecutions.

what my dillema is should i cut the 2nd graveyard hate, or cut the 2nd rough.....for the 3rd submerge..

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Originally Posted by poxy14

@CK: been always a fan of the heavy burn RUG built, but what i dont like bout chain lightnings are its inability to interact, instantly... i always love burning T1 drs when im on the play and waste'ing the nextturn and opening mana up still for another stifle, pierce or land a delver or ponder..or burning something upon equipping is a real good tempo move...not really worried bout BURN utilizing our own chains, RUG is skill intensive and i think most pilots know how to properly use it (chains) against any deck carrying red.

my 7 burn built that's been doing great for me so far is very diverse (1 fice, 1 forked, 1tarfire, 4 lightnings)
2snares has been an inclusion to me lately with the rise of Progress, meta-filled with sfm, rips, cblances....and since im carrying my own tnns...it can interact still with Zpersecutions.

what my dillema is should i cut the 2nd graveyard hate, or cut the 2nd rough.....for the 3rd submerge..

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Yeah I just know from my own experience that drawing into chain lightning against burn while they're hell bent is the worst feeling in the world. Snare is a weird card and very similar to probe in either it's utility or uselessness. I'm still not sure if I would ever want more than 1 in a deck, but then that kind of defeats the purpose by not having the counter on hand when they make their two drop. I've had snare against miracles and they just never had counterbalance and it was just a brick in my hand. Other times it's great even closing out counter wars by countering their counterspell. The added bonus as a defensive card against Zpersecutinos seems well worth it if you're packing TNN's. That might make it worth while enough seeing as a fair amount of the "Oh s*** TNN!" cards: edict effects, golgari charm and Zpersecutions are all at 2 mana lol :tongue:.

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Originally Posted by poxy14

what my dillema is should i cut the 2nd graveyard hate, or cut the 2nd rough.....for the 3rd submerge..

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Now that's a tough one. I'm not sure I personally got really sick of losing to manaless dredge so I've just gone with sticking to 2 cage to make all the dredge match ups near auto win post board. Still don't know if it's worth keeping in wasteland against manaless if you're boarding into cage. The irony is wasteland doesn't do anything, but with cage out of the board it actually now casts a game winning spell other than the random goyf off of trop/waste. On top of that aggressively mulligaining to cage is easier with more than just 14 lands lols.

The 3rd Submerge can really help if you plan on seeing a lot of Goyf decks. Then again you might just end up seeing a lot of d&t and elves and wonder why you ever cut the 2nd rough. Personally I think d&t and elves are bad enough matches to warrant the 2nd rough over the 3rd submerge. We can beat other fair decks with only 2 submerges if we play tight and capitalize when they screw up. Elves and d&t on the other hand can be much harder and rough can be game winning in both of those matches.

In the end there's only so much you can do in tweaking those last 2 or 3 sideboard slots. Whether those cards will be better than the other "bread and butter" sideboard cards will depend on your match ups. At that point it's a crap shoot and you just need some luck and skill to get there. No matter what magic is still a game of chance whether we like it or not hahaha :rolleyes:.

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Originally Posted by Contract Killer

In the end there's only so much you can do in tweaking those last 2 or 3 sideboard slots. Whether those cards will be better than the other "bread and butter" sideboard cards will depend on your match ups.

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thanks for the pointers CK, well after looking at various top8decks (RUG) over at tcdecks, rough shouldnt be cut at any point.
i might just have to rely on the snares ive maindecked for goyf wars...and pray i should be lucky to draw any of my 2 submerges when faced vs kotr decks..i saw several decks that runs only 2..that might be the correct number at this point...or i should say a meta call to run 3..

Is there a reason you rarely see null rod or pithing needle in rug delver sideboards? They both drastically help with death and taxes, as well as miracles. I lot of bug delver lists use both, and it seems to me like the combo of those cards plus our burn would assist a lot!

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Originally Posted by ryscott85

Is there a reason you rarely see null rod or pithing needle in rug delver sideboards? They both drastically help with death and taxes, as well as miracles. I lot of bug delver lists use both, and it seems to me like the combo of those cards plus our burn would assist a lot!

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Null Rod may be hard to play without DRS, esp. if you need to play around Daze/Port, or if you wish to play turn2 Rod with a mana open for Pierce.
I played it in sb, it was good against lots of decks.

Any thoughts on the RUG deck that Ayers's is 4-0ing with? It cut a spell snare, a forked bolt, a tarmogofy and a land for 4 probes.

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Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper

Any thoughts on the RUG deck that Ayers's is 4-0ing with? It cut a spell snare, a forked bolt, a tarmogofy and a land for 4 probes.

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Probes are really good and I've played with 3 tarmogoyfs before (1 sylvan instead) and it's not horrible. I mean Tarmogoyf is probably our least effective threat since any of the following: Abrupt Decay, Swords to Plowshares and TNN deal with it. I'm not a huge fan of cutting the 8th fetch. I mean we run so few lands already do we really want to cut one? I guess there's an argument for cutting a land for a probe since it's essentially not even taken into account when looking at probability (or at least I don't count it). Seems worth testing at least I just don't think cutting the land is worth it when looking at how many 1 landers we keep to begin with.

In other news I just played at my weekly tournament and went 2-1-1 which wasn't horrible.

Round 1 Merfolk 0/2
Probably one of our harder match ups. I mean they run 4 - 6 TNNs plus what 7 - 8 (vial/cavern) ways of making it un-counterable. So game 1 was pretty bad with him being on the play with something like vial x 2, force, merfolk, tnn x 2, island as an opener. My geese + goyf couldn't race fast enough when staring down what turned out to be a 12 point swing all swimming past my creatures *sigh*.

Game 2 was pretty similar just went a bit longer. I boarded something like - 4 stifle // + 2 pyroblast, 2 rough. He eventually got a TNN off a cavern and then got a second one shortly after. Needless to say playing against a deck that has so many ways to cut off RUG's interaction on the stack (vial, cavern, TNN, etc) is just really bad for us.

Round 2 Show and Tell 2/0
Now here's a match up I like. Game 1 I get a turn 1 delver followed by 2 wastelands ( volcanic, city of traitors) holding up daze, spell pierce and force of will.

Game 2 I get a turn 2 goose followed by a turn 3 goyf. I was holding a force and flusterstorm so I don't really think there was much he could do
boarding otd -2 goyf, -1 stifle, -1 daze, -1 forked bolt, -1 chain lightning // + 2 flusterstorm, 2 pyroblast, 1 vendilion clique, 1 sylvan library.

Round 3 Miracles 2/0 sweet another match up I enjoy
Game 1 he's OTP , but I have a good t1 delver to help me out. Delver beats him down to 10 then with a mix of his fetches I eventually get there with bolt, chain lightning and forked bolt. He starts clinging for dear life at 5 with jace fate sealing me, but I draw into bolts. That's partially why I like the burn heavy version despite what you're playing against extra bolts are always useful.

Game 2 I get another turn 1 delver out, but it bricks on triggers for 4 turns :rolleyes:. Somewhere in there Goyf joins the party for a whopping 3 dmg a turn hahaha. Then delver flips and he goes from 12 to 6 then he gets a supreme verdict though *sigh*. Destructive Revelry and bolt clean up though.
Boarding otd - 1 forked bolt, - 1 tarmogoyf, -4 daze // + 2 pyroblast, 1 destructive revelry, 1 flusterstorm, 1 sylvan library, 1 vendilion clique.

Round 4 Miracles 1/1/1 Rinse repeat lol
Game 1 I'm on the draw again sadly. On the Brightside I quckly take the lead in this game with 2 delvers he falls to 11 and then terminuses with force back up which is more than my 1 land can handle. After my delvers landed I was trying to brainstorm into another fetch, but even after 3 brainstorms I couldn't draw another land (they were spaced out over 6 turns I think). Two chain lightnings a bolt and some fetches later though and he's burnt to a crisp :D

Game 2 Goose is beating down most of this game with delver helping out some. I get him down to 6 then he has a supreme verdict (this really makes me want to play Burg for charm's regen option). He starts to stabilize at 4 life once he gets the top counterbalance lock out and with me holding a bolt in hand too! At this point there's 8 mins left and I know he's floating a 1 on top so I decide to cut my losses and move to game 3.

Game 3 This game is really awesome. Turn 1 delver gets him down to 10 before he snapcaster's a swords to plowshares to finally get him. In the meantime there were some really awesome counter wars he entreats for 2 with 1 mana up I spell pierce he flusterstorms I stifle the storm trigger and use my 3rd mana to pay for the original :laugh:. Over the next few turns I get a bolt and chain lightning off leaving him at 1. Then I get sylvan library out. At this point it's 1 out of last 5 turns. I draw myself down to 6, but can't find 1 out of the 5 other bolts left in my deck to finish him off. It ends in a draw and could have gone either way with me at 6 life and him having a snapcaster out.
Boarding - 1 forked bolt, - 1 tarmogoyf, -4 daze // + 2 pyroblast, 1 destructive revelry, 1 flusterstorm, 1 sylvan library, 1 vendilion clique.

I also got my sweet new delver alter in. I can't wait to use it :cool: Shout out to Xela the Geek for making such an awesome alter and I would recommend anybody to check out her facebook page and see the amazing work she has done: https://www.facebook.com/XelaTheGeek

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/jo...tml?sort=3&o=1
http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/jo...tml?sort=3&o=0

My current deck contains the usual, I don't play probe bc of burn and a good player should be able to tell what the opponent is on by turn 1 with whatever they fetch with, I even go as far to call out my opponent on turn 1 after they fetch, usually pisses them off. I also strongly believe you should open up always with these 3 choices in order: Delver, Stifle, ponder, probe feels win more too me and really doesn't have a place in my list, ran it in the past but never liked it, the two life is important to me in some really tight match-ups like esper, DNT, and storm. Bolting yourself turn 1 just to see there hand isn't worth it, also I mulligan aggressively with the deck. I play 2 pierce, 2 snare, and 2 forked bolt, makes for easy boarding decisions for me. My current board I play with which I'm content with is kgrip, grudge, pierce, fluster storm,sulfur elemental, vclique, grafdiggers, 2 rough/tumble, 3 Reb, 3 submerge. Sometimes I debate on cutting sulfur for loam and cut another card depending on what I see around the room. Spellsnare is so good against burn you have no idea how great it is to counter price, searing blaze, or eddion. This was sent from my iPhone so I apologize about any spelling or grammatical errors.

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Originally Posted by ShiftyKapree

I don't play probe bc of burn and a good player should be able to tell what the opponent is on by turn 1 with whatever they fetch with, I even go as far to call out my opponent on turn 1 after they fetch, usually pisses them off.

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Probe isn't so much to tell what they're on, but more so to answer the question of what they may or might not have. Anybody who's been playing legacy for a while can tell marsh flats -> tundra is deathblade and verdant catacombs ->swamp -> deathrite is jund, etc. Probe just really helps with knowing whether it's worth leaving stifle mana up. It also makes the combo match ups much easier knowing if they're about to go off or if they're still looking for cards A, B and C. The life loss can be really bad against burn, but I think it's not horrible against any other deck.

Does anyone tried to take out the mongooses and use young pyromancer?
4 pyromancer, 4 goyfs and 4 delvers

I'm probably really late to the party on this, but have people talked about Skylasher at all? It seems pretty good out of the SB for killing delvers and cliques, and attacking through TNNs. What is the argument against it?

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Originally Posted by J-Funk

I'm probably really late to the party on this, but have people talked about Skylasher at all? It seems pretty good out of the SB for killing delvers and cliques, and attacking through TNNs. What is the argument against it?

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My argument is that it's a narrow answer strapped to a shitty grizzly bear, when the sideboard is already tight as it is. Also, Bolts and Red Blasts answer all the cards that Skylasher does.

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Originally Posted by Kamus

Does anyone tried to take out the mongooses and use young pyromancer?
4 pyromancer, 4 goyfs and 4 delvers

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I'd rather cut Goyf. Goyf is still really good, but dies to everything, etc. Probably want to play 4x Probe with Young P, which means getting real hype and cutting a Tropical Island for your newly formed Cantrip.dek. Damn, now I wanna do this.

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Originally Posted by Exuberance

I'd rather cut Goyf. Goyf is still really good, but dies to everything, etc. Probably want to play 4x Probe with Young P, which means getting real hype and cutting a Tropical Island for your newly formed Cantrip.dek. Damn, now I wanna do this.

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This seems reasonable. Mongoose has easier times surviving and doesn't die to Decay/StP unlike Goyf. While both other creatures die to it, it happens not before they deal at least some dmg, as Delver is pretty fast and YP creates at least some tokens either prior to removal, or even in resp. to it.
If you decide to cut Mongoose, then in your place I'd try to incorporate one Jitte or Rancor. Random? Yeah. But you got cantrips to find it. Useless? Mabye. But it's not like 1/1 tokens alone are that dangerous and it helps to get past TNN or win races.


I played 2/2/2 SS/SP/FB list to an unimpresive 1:2, drop.
R1 (Jan) I met DnT which I defeated ina serie of completely unbelievable games (e.g. G1 I won with opponent being on one Port since his turn2, yet this was still one of the most grindy games I played in past month or so).
R2 (Lukáš) I met Jund and was grinded out. Unluckily, I didn't see enough Delvers and sb'd stuff, otoh, I didn't play really tight and I was lucky to win g2 against active Jitte without any sb cards, so I cannot whine.
R3 (Václav) I lost in a pretty fast fashion against UG Infect and I wasn't really in a game. Bad opening hands, but eah, there are more reasons why I lost than just that.


Btw, I liked the Infect, and I thought to build that, as long as I got everything necessary... "wait, yes, Rancor, np, Stifles, obv, I got those, what's that - Nexus, no trouble, that's some 50 bucks, set of Noble Hie... oh so. Nice deck, though. Nevermind."

played RUG last saturday 16man tourney.
went 3 - 1, for a 3rd place finish

spells (26)
4fows/4bstorms/4ponders/4dazes/3pierces/4bolts/2tarfires/1fice
creatures (15)
4delver/4goyfs/3grims/3kird apes/1vcliq
lands (19)
3volcs/3trops/1taiga/8fetches/4wastelands

sides:
3 submerge/1rough/1fice/1surgical/1graf/1ancient grudge/1drevelry/3pyroblasts/1tnn/1needle/1snare (flex spot)

R1 (1-2 reanimator KITZ)
despite winning game 1, still went short the last 2 games...game 2 needing another blue source for my second fow...and game 3 of not having the volcanic island i need for bolt, opponent down to three..when im able to tap his resolved gbrand via fice..still cant believe i didnt draw any of my dazes in any of the 3 games i played : (
even when im on the stock RUG built, im having difficulties closing this matchup as they just have so many 1cc spells combined with discards and counters too..

R2 (2-0 UR dreadstill JOHN)
the 19th land was crucial as he was playing stifles, with me having 3 pierces main, non of his standstill resolved..he had problems with goyfs and i won this one easily.

R3 (reanimator.....not again! 2-0 ARIS)
since i have lots of 1cc crits and apes are faster than geese... the current crit config proved its advantage this time. his reanimate will not work this time coz of fast life loss...game 2 when i drew a delver and lots of permission..

R4 (2-0 sneakshow FRANZ)
again, i consistently drew into a turn 1 threat and just wait for the counters to seal the win...game 2 wherein he tried resolving a sneak, i daze, he fowed (no mana left)....on my turn i revelried, he fow’ed but i have a pierce and 2 more turns delver and kingkong triumphed vs the spaghetti monster..

after the tourney, weve decided to test the deck vs tempo decks, just to know if it has issues vs my all time favorite deck (RUG canthresh) games are without sideboarding....

3-0 vs KEL (eventual 2nd place with RUG delver)
i have just lots of crits and early apes are issues with unthreshed goose, he has to choose also whether to burn delvers, deal with apes or with my grims that provides constant pressure...i only rely on timely wastelands and fetches to work the mana advantage...since im carrying 7 true lands this time..not missing stifles here. opposing goyf becomes just a blocker to numerous apes..and when i held attcking em, grims and cliq can still provide eot pressure.....oooops, i have my own goyfs too! haha!

2-1 vs ALVIN (RUG with needles/probe main)
the only loss i got was once he drew multiple 3 geese (he’s OTP)... RUG vs fair with lots of removals, this was somehow a Goddraw for him...upon putting early pressure, he was the able to deal properly with my lands, by the time i was able to resolve my goyfs, im at bolt range already.

i had easier time sideboarding with this built, as i have 10 1 drops and can bench goyfs vs the combo matchups, to load more hate, i also dropped the snares....with 3 grims main and 7 more burns, pretty much i have game vs sfm/thalia...carrying more fire a resolved DRS/mom seem not to be an issue to me anymore. Never had issues too flipping delvers..with 26 enablers...just utilize correct pondering and bstorming to negate the low count. Still missing shroud effects of geese, but apes are faster clock vs decks that has no removals..also, by having 15 crits from the regular 12 (stocklist).. quantity should somehow bridge the vulnerability of my creatures to removals.

Interesting take on the deck? Is there any chance (and reason) to incorporate three Stifles, so that you may protect your lands from Waste? You know: Kird Apes love their forests. :smile: