Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Davran
4x Wasteland
4x Cavern [of Souls]
13x Mountain
I like this ^ + 1x Rishadan Port as mana source #22, and ~Wasteland #5. With this 22nd mana source having utility, it can atleast have additional application if flooded, but generally in Goblins I'd rather have 1-2 extra mana than be short 1-2 mana. The deck's curve is higher than 90% of the field, and Wasteland is prevalent.
But overall I'm on board, 17 Red sources has proven itself repeatedly to me to be optimal, and with 5 Colorless one can put them to use (Gempalm, Matron, Ringleader, SGC) while not having them be a liability, like Rishadan Ports #2-4 when one is looking to explode board presence on a pivitol turn. The difference of staring at 3 Red sources and 2 Colorless versus 4 Red sources and 1 Colorless can be quite large especially with Goblin Warchief.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
jrw1985, it sounded like you had bad draws and luck. I think a deck like Jim Davis's relies less on removal and more on board control. It requires a lot of mental math to figure out how many goblins you are willing to block against an opposing Tarmogoyf and Batterskull, or just chump block for next turn. I use to play a variant of Jim's decklist and really liked it. Everything seemed to work together really well, especially if I get a Skirk Prospector online. But I am sure you guys have talked a lot about Jim Davis's decklist, but I don't come here often.
Recently, my friend has been running Grove of the Burnwillows and Punishing Fire. I thought it was a neat engine to try, especially since I want to run Tin Street Hooligans. I decided to put four of each cards in, and quickly realized the disadvantages it has on a Goblin deck. Neither cards may be searchable so I have to rely on chance. My friend's deck has set of Knight of the Reliquary to find Grove of the Burnwillows and cantrips for Punishing Fire, while Ringleader would just put them at the bottom of library. I which Ringleader would just dump stuff to the grave. Oh well. My friend says this tech has been out for months so I am not sure if this is relevant. Just felt like sharing.
Has anyone tried maindecking three Earwig Squads or Blood Moon / Magus of the Moon? This is something I am looking forward to next.
Also, I think Sulfuric Vortex is highly underrated. It makes Battleskull a 4/4 dude with vigilance. It also stops my friend's Punishing Fire engine. I am not sure how relevant Punishing Fire is though. It also makes Soul Sisters cry, which is irrelevant in most metas probably. lol
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
L10
Has anyone tried maindecking three Earwig Squads or Blood Moon / Magus of the Moon? This is something I am looking forward to next.
Don't run non-goblin cards main, with the exception of Aether Vial. I don't even like the lists packing Pyrokinesis main. It's just not necessary and seriously dilutes the raw power of Ringleader. Keep the hate cards in the side. You should only be bringing in non-goblins if they are going to be 1. so powerful that it destroys your opponents (e.g Blood Moon for nonbasics) or 2. necessary to your survival (Chalice/Mindbreak for combo etc).
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrw1985
The king for RUG Delver. The Thalia for all of our normally terrible combo match-ups. GILDED DRAKE (WHAT!?) for Reanimator and Sneak & Show. I would never in a million years think of splashing white for Thalia or blue for anything at all. Insanity.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Lolwat, i have to admit, that is the coolest goblin list i've ever seen
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
While i find the bluesplash for Drake kind of useless, because Drake is very narrow and Stingscourger handles the same situations, I can see the use of Thalia.
To bad we didnt see at least 1 match. But in the end, the deck wins with its core, not the "fillers"
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
interesting white splash for thalia. I d like to test it as well. Nevertheless, I guess that most of the times one would wish that thalia was chalice of the void which doesn t even require white splash...
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fimo
interesting white splash for thalia. I d like to test it as well. Nevertheless, I guess that most of the times one would wish that thalia was chalice of the void which doesn t even require white splash...
It was metatuned against RUG, which is heavenly played in the states. Thalia is much better than chalice, because it can be vialed or "caverned" and is a beater/blocker. Also it doesnt pump the goyf when removed/countered.
I think it was an interesting choice, but I dont think it was the main reason for the success.
I prefer Wastelands over Thalia
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Humphrey
It was metatuned against RUG...
Aaaaaannd he lost to Canadian on the top8 =/
Don't really like his list too... But would very much would have appreciated see any of his games.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
I wonder if his nontraditional list helped against the Grislebrand and other combo decks but made him weaker to RUG, which is a pretty winnable match-up. I played some games during downtime at an IQ this weekend (all pre-board), and lost hard to Reanimator and Belcher but went like 4-0 against RUG.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
woodjt5
The king for RUG Delver. The Thalia for all of our normally terrible combo match-ups. GILDED DRAKE (WHAT!?) for Reanimator and Sneak & Show. I would never in a million years think of splashing white for Thalia or blue for anything at all. Insanity.
I mentioned a while back that this deck should start metagaming and take advantage of playing stuff like bears now that the deck has access to both Vial and Cavern. Glad someone picked up on it. That list looks pretty fucking boss.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
13th place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Seattle, Washington, United States on 2012-07-01
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Warren Instigator
Basic Lands
18 Mountain
Lands
2 Cavern of Souls
Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Blood Moon
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Red Elemental Blast
To be honest I have never tested guide... but wtf? It doesn t seem to me that goblin guide fits in the philosophy of this deck...
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fimo
13th place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Seattle, Washington, United States on 2012-07-01
Maindeck:
To be honest I have never tested guide... but wtf? It doesn t seem to me that goblin guide fits in the philosophy of this deck...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Humphrey
But in the end, the deck wins with its core, not the "fillers"
Its interesting to see two goblin lists without Wasteland placing well.
Another thing, no Mons Lord in M13 :eek:
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
A deck that has an odd inclusion (or exclusion) like Thalia, Guide, or (lack of) Wasteland, even if it places well, does not mean it's instantly the the best version to play. Goblins is still strong because of its core, and those minor changes often make little difference. Maybe Thalia can be good against RUG and Combo, but you have to remember that these builds are tuned towards specific metas. And remember, player skill and deck construction (although very important) aren't the only things that matter in tournaments. The decks you get paired against and even the luck of the draw can affect your chances greatly. Bad lists can sometimes do well and good lists often don't make it to T8. So, just take all these deviant lists with a grain of salt.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
I was in the group of the guy who piloted that deck to 13th and he was running well that day. He borrowed the deck from another guy at our shop and neither one of them are legacy gurus or anything. The lack of wastelands and ports is due to budget restrictions. The pilot was playing very well though and sometimes that's more important than an optimal list.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
This is the list I have been toying around with lately:
13 mountain
4 wasteland
4 cavern
4 aether vial
4 goblin lackey
4 goblin matron
4 goblin ringleader
4 goblin warchief
4 gempalm incinerator
3 goblin chieftain
3 mogg-war marshall
2 siege gang
2 krenko
2 piledriver
1 tarfire
1 stingscourger
1 skirk prospector
sb:
4 leyline
4 chalice
2 pyrokinesis
2 sulfuric vortex
1 sharpshooter
1 stingscourger
1 tuktuk
Its been good for me lately, Krenko has been performing well so I upped it to 2.
Havent liked wasteland lately, but Ill keep it in since it does still win random matches.
With merfolk hopefully getting a stronger position also, I think goblins gains quite a bit in power after m13.
Any thoughts?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
danyul
I was in the group of the guy who piloted that deck to 13th and he was running well that day. He borrowed the deck from another guy at our shop and neither one of them are legacy gurus or anything. The lack of wastelands and ports is due to budget restrictions. The pilot was playing very well though and sometimes that's more important than an optimal list.
Listen up fellers. This man's words hold truth.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Perhaps Wasteland isn't as effective a method of control against the general metagame right now. If you lose Ports to Cavern of Souls then perhaps the plan is compromised. Granted, Wasteland gets you out of a lot of sticky situations like against Lands where they drop a Tabenacle or Chasm to lock you out til you draw Waste, or Maze of Ith to slow you down (Lackey/Instigator/Piledriver). Either way, the splashes ought to be thoroughly explored now that the deck has maindeck access to a rainbow land (Cavern) to play whatever bear or Drake(?) is required for a poor matchup.
I thought that Goblins had a decent matchup against SneakShow and Reanimator anyway though given that Matron --> Stingscourer in the maindeck as well as post-board Stingscourers. I guess Gilded Drake is slightly more effective because you get to keep the creature rather than bounce it. Stingscourer can sometimes brick when they can just cheat 'fat dude' again if they played Sneak Attack rather than Show and Tell. Same can be said of redundant reanimation if you don't have a clock yet. Thalia is definitely boss against Storm combo. Being able to Vial it into play is even more deadly because you can respond to Inquisition and Chant doesn't stop you from Vialing it into play. It also a powerful surprise that a storm pilot isn't expected to play around.
@1maarten1
I think Krenko might deserve more sideboard than maindeck space. He's good but you already have Matron to find him. He might be good as a 2'of post-board though when you start running into RUG/UR's Burn and want to find another one. As long as he hits play when you have a lord out, he'll have haste and make a bunch of dudes even if he eats a Burn spell.
@Goblin Guides
Its a pretty aggressive card but it doesn't make sense, even when the list doesn't play Wasteland. It does give the list 12 powerful turn 1 plays though; 4 Vial, 4 Lackey or 4 Guide.
