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If your meta is full of greedy manabases, warranting a MD Moon, I could see this working. However the surprise effect probably decreases after your second tourney boasting that tech.Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiJoey
I would still miss those 3-4 fetches you dropped, since being able to shuffle every now and then is just golden for a deck with BS, Jace and Top.
7 tundra?
Deriving from the fact that he plays 0 Flooded Strand I think this should mean:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
Greetings
Blerg; this. So that's 9 fetches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
Blood Moon works against everyone. Nobody plays Wastes on Miracles, so no-one plays around that kind of thing. If you do, then I just don't make Blood Moon. It's THAT simple. Certain decks can't play around it, like 3-colour tempo, and the more midrange decks like Shardless.
I was simply saying that we can draw into cantrips which can then draw us into removal, even if we don't have any in our opening hand. I admit that your hand is definitely a case where Force-ing a turn 1 mongoose is a possibility but if I have any sort of removal (non-STP) or cantrip, you can bet I'm keep my Force.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
If they mulled to 6 or 5, I'd be more likely to Force, since it is less likely they will Force back or even have a backup threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
We do need to survive the midgame, but being unharmed can mean different things. One way is in terms of our life total. The other way is in terms of how strong our hand is compared to theirs. If I'm at 20 life in the mid game but I'm in top deck mode while staring down a Goyf, that is probably a worse situation than if I have a hand of 3 cards and at 12 life.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
I agree, Jace is the card I'd pitch here. Just so we're clear, I'm not saying that in your situation your play is incorrect. I am just saying in general, given no other information, Forcing a turn 1 Mongoose is probably not the best play.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Yeah, sure. Sometimes Delver does what Delver does and we get rolled. But in the long run, I've found that take 2-3 hits or even 4 hits is acceptable and I can find removal in time. And if know I will find my RIP, Terminus, or Explosives in that time, then Forcing would have been the incorrect play. Anyway, let's drop this. I will concede that the specific situation you brought up there is definitely an argument for Forcing the Mongoose but it is not the correct general strategy of Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
EDIT: On the whole mana base issue, I thought I might chip in mine. I'm running this 22:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mystic Gate
1 Karakas
Sometimes I find that 3 Tundra is too much but there's also times where I find that 2 leaves me unable to fetch one at times. I still think that 3 is correct, supported by the miser Mystic Gate. I would never go less than 6 basics though. I really want to run the second Karakas but I don't want to cut another non-land card.
Given this scenario, I would rather hold my FoW almost every time. Not knowing what my draws would be, I'd plan to do something like Island go, Island go, Tundra -> Daze-proof Counterbalance with FoW backup. By this point you've likely drawn some more spicy cards, possibly even a Top or Brainstorm. Over the course of these three turns, you've taken a whopping 2 damage (3 if you count using the FoW to protect your CB). This sounds a whole lot better to me than FoWing their Goose on zero information and hoping that they don't have the Daze (which not only keeps them the Goose, but helps it Threshold faster).Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
What do you guys think about a second Karakas and a Celestial Colonnade MD ?
The number of cards with a casting cost of 2 is very low in nearly all versions i have seen ( < 10 ). Don't you think it's a issue when you are heavily relying in Counterbalance (playing 3 or 4) not to be able to counter reliably at 2 ?
Is Ponder a necessity for you or not ?
Thank you.
The 2cc slot is a problem because the Terminus, Jaces, Entreats, Venser and Cliques push into the higher cmc's. However, since the days of Tarmogoyf-staredowns behind a Counterbalance the 2cc slot became suprisingly less relevant as the more important flipped cost are 1 (cantrips, discard, rituals), 3 (Clique, Show & Tell, Choke, KotR) and 4 (Jace, NO, Elspeth) and pretty much the worst/best 2-Drops in the format are Counterbalance, Hymn, Goofy, Bob, SFM, SCM, Infernal Tutor and Burning Wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaka1333
For those you still have hardcounters or removal that get the Job done. It's not that creatures are that backbreaking to this deck anyways and as long as you can deny storm's mana, everythings fine.
Cel.Col isn't an option imo. It's slow, fragile, mana-intense and a horrible turn 1 play. A second Karakas however proofed it's usefullness against Reanimator, Sneak & Show, Elves (Ruric Thar) and the pesty Gardock Teeg/Thalia.
Colonnade was bad. I may be tempted by it in a non-RiP build where I can use Wasteland and Cruicible, but until then I think it's just too slow. At the point it's good, it's better as a 'Walker.
I always like Karakas, though.
So far I've had good experiences with Colonnade. I've only run into it twice, but in those times I 1.) Won the game on it's back, and 2.) Killed Elspeth to solidify my win instead of getting punched in the face two more times via a flying 4/4 Soldier to lose the game. I'm sure that as time goes on, it will not always allow for such game-turning plays, but for a one-of, I'd say its waaaay more solid than Glacial Fortress...
Here is my current mana base:
4 Strand
3 Tarn
2 Mesa
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Mystic Gate
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Karakas
1 Seat of the Synod
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
A little greedy, not too bad though so far in testing. It's not greedy if I don't play greedy. If I play greedy, I occasionally get uber-wrecked by wasteland. A few people won't appreciate the basic Mountain, only 3 Island, and the Seat of the Synod along with the Colonnade, and I can see where they are coming from, but I'm fairly pleased with it. The mountain may become a 4th Island, but for now it needs more testing for my own peace of mind.
-ABC
Hi everybody, my local metagame is moving to more and more tribals, BUG, and Deathblade, so i'm actually testing a blade version, Batterskull is awesome in all of this matchups!
the decklist is almost netdecked from a really strong italian player and is the following:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Arid Mesa
1 Academy Ruins
2 Volcanic Island
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Force of Will
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Spell Pierce
1 Batterskull
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Terminus
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Wear_Tear
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
I have no simil- Glacial fortress lands because IMHO they limit the number of basics u could play, and playing Blood Moon in SB is better than have two lands that untap under Choke, i'm not too sold on the Arid Mesa, (9th fetch) because i have 11 shuffle effects with it and they migth be too much, if that wuold be replaced it would leave the MD for a Plains
I'm still testing the blood moons in SB, they are there to "easy win" some matches like Deathblade, Jund, Shardless BUG... does anyone has any experience with them?
and these are all my sb plans, i'm not really sure on them, any suggestions?
AnT 9
In 1 FoW 2 Flusterstorm 1 Reb 1 E.E. 1 Pyro 2 Relic, 1 Sulfur
Out 2 Eta 3 Terminus 3 Plow 1 Jace
Burn 4
In 1 FoW, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear/Tear,
Out 1 Jace, 2 Terminus, 1 Eta
Canadian Threshold 7
In 1 Terminus, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Engineered explosives, 2 Relic of Progenitus 1 Sulfur
Out 2 Jace TmS, 3 FoW, 2 Vendilion
Death and Taxes 5
In 1 Wear/Tear, 1 EE, 1 Sulfur Elemental, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Terminus
Out 2 Vendilion Clique, 3 Spell Pierce,
Deathblade (Italian lists with Geists maindeck, no Confidants and 2 FoW MD) 7/6
In 3 pyro/Reb, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Wear/Tear, 2 Blood Moon
Out 3 FoW, 3 pierce,
Elves 7
In 1 FoW, 1 Terminus, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 E.E., 1 Wear/Tear, 2 Flusterstorm
Out 2 Stoneforge Mystic, 1 Batterskull, 1 Vendilion Clique, 3 Spell pierce
Goblins 6
In 1 Terminus, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Wear/Tear, 1 FoW, 1 E.E, 1 Sulfur
Out 3 Pierce, 3 CB
Jund 8
In 1 Wear/Tear, 1 E.E., 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Terminus, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Relic of Progenitus
Out 3 CB, 2 SfM, 1 Bskull, 2 Vendilion
Maverick 8
In 1 Wear/Tear, 1 E.E., 2 Relic, 1 Sulfur, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Pyroclasm/1 Terminus
Out 2 SfM, 1 BSkull, 3 Pierce, 2 Vendilion Clique
Merfolks 6
In 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 1 Terminus, 1 E.E., 1Wear/Tear
Out 1 Jace, 3 Pierce, 2 Vendilion
Miracles 8
In 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear/Tear, 2 Pyroblast, 1 Reb, 1 E.E., 1 Sulfur Elemental
Out 2 SFM, 1 Bskull, 3 Terminus, 2 Plow
OmniTell 8
In 1 FoW, 2 Flusterstorm, 1Wear/Tear, 2 pyroblast, 1 ReB, 1 Sulfur elemental
Out 4 Plow, 3 Terminus, 1 Entreat the Angels
Patriot tempo. 7
In 2reb, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Terminus 1 Wear/Tear, 1 Pyroclasm
Out 2 Jace, Tms, 3 pierce, 2 vendilion
Shardless BUG 6
In 2 Blood Moon, 3 Pyro, 1Terminus
Out 3 FoW, 3 CB
Sneak & Show 8
In 1 Sulfur Elemental, 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Force of Will, 1 Wear/Tear
Out 4 Swords to Plowshares, 2 Entreat the Angels 1 E.E, 1 Terminus
all these plans are really sketchy, if any of you see something on what give me some indications it wuold be great!
@Gros - Just a couple of observations:
Sulfuric Elemental: Did you find it good? It kills MoMs, thalia and the like, but also pumps mirrodin crusader, stoneforge and serra avenger. Wouldn't a Pyroclasm be better in its place?
Vs Canadian I would side in 2 Blood Moons, since if they haven't a creature in play and it resolves you have win.
@kingtk3 the real power of sulfur elemental is that is so versatile! D&T is the classic matchup in which you side it in, but is very good vs. Thresh (it kills mongeeses), Mirror (can kill opposing Jaces in greedy mode), Maverick, is a clock vs. all the combo decks that doesn't require to you to tap at sorcery speed, almost shuts down Elspeth... it basically does almost always what you wanted it to do:) ok it can pump serra avenger and mirran crusader, but it shuts off on its own Mangara Thalia Mom, in the worst scenario it can chump Mirran after doing 2x0... it seems a good deal to me! pyroclasm is also good, but if oppo has mom mystic you look at your pyroclasm and basically cry :), same thing happens vs. Canadian Thresh mongeese 3/3 make it a dead off color card vs. a mana denial opponent, snare targettable... they are different cards and covers very different roles IMHO
Thank you for your very interesting post Gros.
Concerning your sideboard plan, there are a few things i personally don't like :
RUG : why do you side out Vendilion Clique ? It's good at blocking Goose and Delver, seeing their hand is awesome and it allows you to resolve more easily your bombs. I also like to keep 2 FoW not to lose on tempo and to be able to resolve your gamebreaking threats more easily. The issue is that you already have way to much cards to side in and few to side out in this matchup which is the sign that there is something wrong in your 75.
D&T : No love for Vendilion Clique huh ? I value it more than the second and third CB and the third FoW is this matchup.
Elves : I wouldn't blindly side in Wear/Tear (for Choke i guess ?) because very few versions have it and i would keep V. Clique (again :p) as it's a very good card in the matchup (in addition to the classics seeing their hand, removing a NO or a Glimpse and putting back your miracles in your deck, they have litteraly no way to block it, so it's also a good kill)
Jund : I don't like keeping Force of Will in this matchup and i don't understand why you side out SFM + Batterskull, Batterskull is awesome against them.
Maverick : I like to keep my Spell Pierce in because they have quite a few very dangerous targets after board (Choke, Sylvan Library, Elspeth, GSZ). SFM + Batterskull seems good too. I don't like Relic and i'm not sure about Blood Moon but it's probably good.
I would side like that : + In 1 Wear/Tear, 1 E.E., 1 Sulfur, 1 Pyroclasm/1 Terminus, (2 Blood Moon)
Out : 2 Vendilion Clique ( :) ), 2 CB (they play Cavern of Soul and have ways to destroy it), 1 FoW (2 FoW)
Miracles : If they didn't see SFM game one, you may want to consider keeping it because they will probably have no way to deal with it (try to keep 3 manas open to avoid Wear). I don't like to keep to 2 StP neither.
OmniTell : Keep EoA and side out a Jace (quite bad in this matchup)
Patriot Tempo : Cliques seems better than Counterspell, EE and FoW here.
Sneak and Show : I don't really like terminus in this matchup. Sure sometimes you will win against an Emrakul but most of time you will die anyway if they have a Griselbrand or a Sneak Attack. Keeping EoA seems better because it's a 3 drop and because you need ways to close the game.
I hope this will help you and i will gladly debate about it if you think i'm wrong.
Cheers.
I'd bring in the second Pyroblast over the EE. If you know it's ANT (you see Cabal Ritual), I wouldn't expect Empty the Warrens. Also, the Jace is more useful than the single Swords. It pitches to FoW and Fateseal is actually pretty good against storm decks in the late game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
I'd probably take out some Cliques over Terminus. 6cmc is useful and Cliques aren't very useful. Sending a Bolt effect to the bottom and having them draw another Bolt effect isn't helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
You can think about bringing in REBs since they nuke Delvers, but you already have Flusterstorms against their counters, so it's up to you. I wouldn't take out Cliques, like Shaka said trade with Delver and Goose. Snapcasters can probably come out since you're bringing in GY hate. I'd also probably rather have more Jace than the Sulfur Elemental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
Leave in the Cliques. D&T have a lot of variance draws, and Clique is also good against SFM. You can lose the FoWs probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
Seems fine. You might think about another Terminus though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
Since you have no Jitte in the board, SFM is agreeably lackluster here. Again, Clique seems good against their variance. I'm not sure if Flusterstorm is actually better here than Spell Pierce. I'd be inclined to say no, but I haven't experimented with it. Also, like Shaka said, Wear//Tear is meh. I'd rather board out Flusterstorm and Wear//Tear, leave in the Pierces, and if they do something like Choke, just counter it. Choke doesn't matter anyways if you have CBTop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
I feel like CB is more useful than FoW, but I suppose it could depend whether you're on the play or draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
Again like Shaka said, SFM + BSkull is great against Jund. I'm not sure why you want Wear//Tear. I'd do something more like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
+1 EE, +1 Pyroclasm, +1 Terminus, +2 Blood Moon, +2 Relic
-3 FoW, -3 Pierce, -1 Snapcaster
Again, Cliques and get rid of FoW. Bring in both Pyroclasm and Terminus. I'm unsure about Blood Moon. Probably leave SFM over that and something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
Why Wear//Tear? Jace and Cliques are both good. You don't need FoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
Leave in Terminus and take out Swords; Terminus dodges CB better if you need to resolve removal. Sulfur Elemental and Flusterstorm probably aren't as good as SFM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
You can take out EE over Entreat. Leave in Jace for Blue count and potential late game Fateseals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
Probably take out FoW over Clique (trades with Delver and Geist). I'd try to leave in more Jaces too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
Seems fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
I would leave in all the Terminus and take out SFM over the Entreats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros
In general, I'd rather run RIPs than Relics in the board. Also, with zero Vensers and ORing effects, Show and Tell will be a really tough MU.
"Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
OmniTell 8
In 1 FoW, 2 Flusterstorm, 1Wear/Tear, 2 pyroblast, 1 ReB, 1 Sulfur elemental
Out 4 Plow, 3 Terminus, 1 Entreat the Angels
Shaka1333
OmniTell : Keep EoA and side out a Jace (quite bad in this matchup)
Dzra
You can take out EE over Entreat. Leave in Jace for Blue count and potential late game Fateseals."
I have the same exerience and oppinion like Dzra on the Omni-Tell match up. I played (UWR Miracles with Moat MD) in a tournament against Omni-Tell (which is my other favourite deck). Second turn CB-Top and later Jace gave a total lock with Brainstorm and Clique on the top of my library. I lost pre board but won both games postboard.
Thanks to all of you for the time dedicated to me, i will respond to Dzra because his post basically contains the UB control and the Shaka ones'
let's start :)
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
AnT 9
In 1 FoW 2 Flusterstorm 1 Reb 1 E.E. 1 Pyro 2 Relic, 1 Sulfur
Out 2 Eta 3 Terminus 3 Plow 1 Jace
you maybe right on this, maybe i'm too afraid of Xantid Swarm, refreshing this Sb plan we have this:Quote:
I'd bring in the second Pyroblast over the EE. If you know it's ANT (you see Cabal Ritual), I wouldn't expect Empty the Warrens. Also, the Jace is more useful than the single Swords. It pitches to FoW and Fateseal is actually pretty good against storm decks in the late game.
In 1 FoW 2 Flusterstorm 1 Reb 2 Pyro 2 Relic, 1 Sulfur
Out 2 Eta 3 Terminus 4 Plow
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Burn 4
In 1 FoW, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear/Tear,
Out 1 Jace, 2 Terminus, 1 Eta
V. Clique IMHO would stay in to apply pressure to the opponent, even if it's ability is obviously underwhelming but il'll test it out even if Terminus seems equally underwhelming if not for it's 6 cmc.Quote:
I'd probably take out some Cliques over Terminus. 6cmc is useful and Cliques aren't very useful. Sending a Bolt effect to the bottom and having them draw another Bolt effect isn't helpful.
then:
In 1 FoW, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear/Tear,
Out 1 Jace, 2 V. Clique, 1 Eta
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Canadian Threshold 7 (RUG Delver)
In 1 Terminus, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Engineered explosives, 2 Relic of Progenitus 1 Sulfur
Out 2 Jace TmS, 3 FoW, 2 Vendilion
i really don't like siding in Rebs for dealing with Delvers since we would need to succesfully fetch on Volcanic early giving our opponent more ways to manascrew us, i boarded out cliques because IMHO is pretty hard for it to slalom between dazes, FoWs, Bolts, Rebs and succefully trade with a mongoose, i left in both Snapcasters because if we have relic online we are winning then we don't need it too much, then if we don't have relic online we'd like to draw it and use it, then Relic isn't a "hard GY card", so it can coexhist on board with snappy if used carefully Jace has been cut because of it's high cmc and because it has hard time dealing with Rebs and mongooses.Quote:
You can think about bringing in REBs since they nuke Delvers, but you already have Flusterstorms against their counters, so it's up to you. I wouldn't take out Cliques, like Shaka said trade with Delver and Goose. Snapcasters can probably come out since you're bringing in GY hate. I'd also probably rather have more Jace than the Sulfur Elemental.
maybe i can try something like this one but i'm not totally sold on it:
In 1 Terminus, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Engineered explosives, 2 Relic of Progenitus
Out 1 Jace TmS, 3 FoW, 2 Vendilion
Death and Taxes 5
In 1 Wear/Tear, 1 EE, 1 Sulfur Elemental, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Terminus
Out 2 Vendilion Clique, 3 Spell Pierce
FoW originally stayed in because i did it so when i played 4 in MD for getting rid of vial, now that i have 3 it seems right to board them out, i found V. Clique underwhelming vs. D&T since he plays 3 karakas MD but the effect vs. stoneforge is totally worth it actually then:Quote:
Leave in the Cliques. D&T have a lot of variance draws, and Clique is also good against SFM. You can lose the FoWs probably.
In 1 Wear/Tear, 1 EE, 1 Sulfur Elemental, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Terminus,
Out 3 FoW, 2 Spell Pierce
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Deathblade (Italian lists with Geists maindeck, no Confidants and 2 FoW MD) 7/6
In 3 pyro/Reb, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Wear/Tear, 2 Blood Moon
Out 3 FoW, 3 pierce
Terminus compete with the pyroclasm's slot in here, the advantage of the first is that can easily kill Geist equipped, the latter can't, but the latter require way less setup, i think it's still debatableQuote:
Seems fine. You might think about another Terminus though.
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Elves 7
In 1 FoW, 1 Terminus, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 E.E., 1 Wear/Tear, 2 Flusterstorm
Out 2 Stoneforge Mystic, 1 Batterskull, 1 Vendilion Clique, 3 Spell pierce
Guess you're right in this case i ususally choose before boarding if i wanna side or not at alla vs. choke, in this case i choose i don't care 'bout it then:Quote:
Since you have no Jitte in the board, SFM is agreeably lackluster here. Again, Clique seems good against their variance. I'm not sure if Flusterstorm is actually better here than Spell Pierce. I'd be inclined to say no, but I haven't experimented with it. Also, like Shaka said, Wear//Tear is meh. I'd rather board out Flusterstorm and Wear//Tear, leave in the Pierces, and if they do something like Choke, just counter it. Choke doesn't matter anyways if you have CBTop.
In 1 FoW, 1 Terminus, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 E.E., 2 Flusterstorm
Out 2 Stoneforge Mystic, 1 Batterskull, 3 Spell pierce
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Goblins 6
In 1 Terminus, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Wear/Tear, 1 FoW, 1 E.E, 1 Sulfur
Out 3 Pierce, 3 CB
i think that boarding out or keepin in pierces could depend if we're OtP or OtD, but in my place people usually plays Vials and cavern of Souls, and with their "strange" mana curve CB would result totally underwhelming IMHO, the motivation to keep it in is that maybe it can bait a Krosan instead of BSkull, but if our opponent is good i guess this would be really hard. The reasoning behind keeping FoWs in is the same vs. D&T, but here i board in the 4th too then i guess it may worksQuote:
I feel like CB is more useful than FoW, but I suppose it could depend whether you're on the play or draw.
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Jund 8
In 1 Wear/Tear, 1 E.E., 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Terminus, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Relic of Progenitus
Out 3 CB, 2 SfM, 1 Bskull, 2 Vendilion
i Found this sb plan totally weak to choke, no way to deal with it, and little ways to deal with Lili IMHO, i boarded out alla the decay targets to make him draw a little more dead, then i guess mistic could really hard vial in a BSkull dodging P.Fire, Decays, Thoughtseizes, Tourachs, Lilianas...Quote:
Again like Shaka said, SFM + BSkull is great against Jund. I'm not sure why you want Wear//Tear. I'd do something more like this:
+1 EE, +1 Pyroclasm, +1 Terminus, +2 Blood Moon, +2 Relic
-3 FoW, -3 Pierce, -1 Snapcaster
but if your suggestions are inspired by test sessions i will totally test it out even if i respectfully disagree.
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Maverick 8
In 1 Wear/Tear, 1 E.E., 2 Relic, 1 Sulfur, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Pyroclasm/1 Terminus
Out 2 SfM, 1 BSkull, 3 Pierce, 2 Vendilion Clique
here i didn't explain myself well, i was referring to Punishing Dark Maverick, Fow is here because for him is a joke to play around pierces, then a resolved Elspeth or Choke can kill uson it's own, Blood moon could be a good plan, SFM vs. P. fires qasalis, krosans, and all the rest has a real hard time IMHO. Clique could be good, but there's no more cards to cut MD IMHOQuote:
Again, Cliques and get rid of FoW. Bring in both Pyroclasm and Terminus. I'm unsure about Blood Moon. Probably leave SFM over that and something else.
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Merfolks 6
In 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 1 Terminus, 1 E.E., 1Wear/Tear
Out 1 Jace, 3 Pierce, 2 Vendilion
Totally agree, which is the precise use of Vclique here? discard resp to Vial activation?:Quote:
Why Wear//Tear? Jace and Cliques are both good. You don't need FoW.
In 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 1 Terminus, 1 E.E., 1 Pyroclasm ?
Out 3 Pierce, 3 FoWs,
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Miracles 8
In 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Wear/Tear, 2 Pyroblast, 1 Reb, 1 E.E., 1 Sulfur Elemental
Out 2 SFM, 1 Bskull, 3 Terminus, 2 Plow
Flusterstorm was here for not letting the opponent resolves EtA because i always thought Terminus would be a dead draw, but is actually better than Plow:Quote:
Leave in Terminus and take out Swords; Terminus dodges CB better if you need to resolve removal. Sulfur Elemental and Flusterstorm probably aren't as good as SFM.
In 1 Wear/Tear, 2 Pyroblast, 1 Reb, 1 E.E.,
Out 1 Terminus, 4 Plow
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
OmniTell 8
In 1 FoW, 2 Flusterstorm, 1Wear/Tear, 2 pyroblast, 1 ReB, 1 Sulfur elemental
Out 4 Plow, 3 Terminus, 1 Entreat the Angels
Totally right, jace is still in there:Quote:
You can take out EE over Entreat. Leave in Jace for Blue count and potential late game Fateseals.
In 1 FoW, 2 Flusterstorm, 1Wear/Tear, 2 pyroblast, 1 ReB, 1 Sulfur elemental
Out 4 Plow, 3 Terminus, 1 EE
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Patriot tempo. 7
In 2reb, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Terminus 1 Wear/Tear, 1 Pyroclasm
Out 2 Jace, Tms, 3 pierce, 2 vendilion
FoWs were there to deal with Geists, is boarding in Blood Moons a bad idea in here? again i think Vendilion is a lot fragile to get to trade with geists.. but let see:Quote:
Probably take out FoW over Clique (trades with Delver and Geist). I'd try to leave in more Jaces too.
In 2reb, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Terminus 1 Wear/Tear, 1 Pyroclasm
Out 1 Jace, Tms, 3 pierce, 3 FoW
Quote Originally Posted by Gros View Post
Sneak & Show 8
In 1 Sulfur Elemental, 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Force of Will, 1 Wear/Tear
Out 4 Swords to Plowshares, 2 Entreat the Angels 1 E.E, 1 Terminus
ok let's try this:Quote:
I would leave in all the Terminus and take out SFM over the Entreats.
In 1 Sulfur Elemental, 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Force of Will, 1 Wear/Tear
Out 4 Swords to Plowshares, 2 SFM, 1 BSkull 1 E.E,
I think RIP is totally> relic if played maindeck, but post board Relic IMHO is more versatile because it isn't so "hard", it can be played in different modes and vs combo you can make tricks like hiding Fow with BS in resp to discard effect, then draw it in resp to his tutor/AN/PiF emptying graves, plus it cicles itself on desperate moments, and it can trigger miracles at instant speed in absence ot Top and it leaves room to play Snappy, regarding the SHow and something matchups i guess you're roght what would you eventually cut MD for a Venser?Quote:
In general, I'd rather run RIPs than Relics in the board. Also, with zero Vensers and ORing effects, Show and Tell will be a really tough MU.
If anyone of you have some more perplexity let me know it
thanks for the help and the time
Yeah ... now that i think more about it, Jace seems good in the OmniShow matchup because you have the CB lock factor... i was thinking about my experience with Esperblade where Jace is worst in the matchup.
Top32 at Ovino8, list and report to come.
Report is up: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post754702
List was very good in this very meta, which consited of quite some Miracles. I liked pretty much everything, only thing I am unsure about is the amount of red sources... I might want a 3rd one somewhere.
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ponder
SB: 3 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Entreat the Angels
SB: 1 Counterbalance
Greetings