[Deck] 12 Post

I was watching Rock Lee play this at SCG Philly and Platinum Emperion was definitely an interesting piece of tech to say the least. I think many of his opponents underestimated its value when they saw it with Probes or Thoughtseizes too.

It would be interesting to hear Rock Lee's take on how these new cards worked out for him over the course of the tournament. I was particularly intrigued by the addition of Fact or Fiction and Platinum Emperion and their applications at this point in time in this metagame...

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Originally Posted by MGB

It would be interesting to hear Rock Lee's take on how these new cards worked out for him over the course of the tournament. I was particularly intrigued by the addition of Fact or Fiction and Platinum Emperion and their applications at this point in time in this metagame...

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Yeah, I'm interested to hear that. I hadn't considered the ease of removal on Emperion vs. Angel, so that makes sense. Plus, in retrospect, looking at how far Storm got, playing a strategy against it was probably a solid move.

The Fact or Fictions I understand. I'd tested them out a while back after seeing Andrew Cuneo play them. A lot of times it seems like we're only looking for one or two specific cards (or cards than can grab those), so a Fact or Fiction separated into 1 and 4 can still be a benefit by netting that card and helping to fuel a Treasure Cruise.

I've considered some of the platinum cards because they can be tutored with eye, but ultimately they are weak to a lot of removal and depending on them is almost a false sense of hope. ANT has bounce cards like chain of vapor, and white has swords, so unless you are planning to g1 use it against UR id be surprised if it stuck. artifact removal is everywhere. Red decks play smash to smithereens, all blue combo decks play bounce, and the other grouping running white play STP. Black decks & bug play liliana which is troublesome too. Additionally you cannot use fetch lands, you don't gain life from glimmer posts, and can't pay upkeep costs (not that you would need to if this was in play).

So at my LGS, I had the luxury of playing against reanimator. In the past, I've been able defeat it pretty easily. Well today Sire of Insanity was entombed/reanimated into play. Is that a silver bullet against us? I attempted to crop rotation for Bojuka bog both games, but lost the counter wars. I then proceeded to go into a topdeck war against a 6/4. In the past I've been able to race inkwell, but sire is a different animal!

On the bright side, I tried fact or fiction over treasure cruise and it seems pretty solid.

My entire playgroup has pretty much moved off of U/R, so I've been trying to tune my deck based on the way things have moved. I am also experiencing fewer Wasteland than ever, so my lists are starting to reflect that. Here's what I'm currently running and having some success with; lost to Storm tonight mostly due to my own mistakes.

2 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Repeal
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
2 Trinket Mage
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Show and Tell

SIDEBOARD:
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Krosan Grip
1 Swan Song

I really like the Trinket Mage package in the current meta, and the mainboard Relic of Progenitus has been great. Venser, Shaper Savant is kind of a hedge against random bad problems while also being one of the only not-deadweight cards against Omni, which is played around here. I'm actually considering running Glen Elendra Archmage in the main as well: especially as people are trending toward slower decks like Blade variants, she does a lot of work...she also compliments the mini-Wizard-tribal theme. Didn't get enough testing in with Fact or Fiction or Platinum Emperion to say much either way, but I suspect that as long as there is lots of burn as the prime source of removal, Emperion will be strong.

Why don't we use mystic remora? It seems we are a deck that can support it.

Testing time. It seems strong against ur delver as a tool to get moment's peace and mass removal.

It also seems to have game against storm, as it allows you to draw into Counter during their combo turn.

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Originally Posted by Hencules

Why don't we use mystic remora? It seems we are a deck that can support it.

Testing time. It seems strong against ur delver as a tool to get moment's peace and mass removal.

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On a similar subject has anyone tried standstill?

Players that use Cockatrice now have access to Fate Reforged.

While, I haven't had started seriously testing Ugin, the Spirit Dragon in Legacy yet, I can say that Ugin is quite the fun guy in MUD. The ultimate is nuts.

As an aside, plussing Ugin feels... empowering.

Played this tonight in local LgS. 0-2 against omni-tell and doomsday. Combo against combo sucks.

You pick your poison, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

Players that use Cockatrice now have access to Fate Reforged.

While, I haven't had started seriously testing Ugin, the Spirit Dragon in Legacy yet, I can say that Ugin is quite the fun guy in MUD. The ultimate is nuts.

As an aside, plussing Ugin feels... empowering.

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I have. It's awesome. It's such a game changer, it's not even funny. The moment it hits the board you use it's wipe to 1-for-x them, and afterwards they have to keep playing multiple creatures per turn to keep up, which they usually cannot. It will not always win you the game on the spot, but it acts as Jace the mind sculptor does in miracles, just not as subtle as Jace does. It locks the game down. And that at least one or two turns before emrakul could do. I still play Ugin in the list I posted a few pages back. Works like a charm.


Edit: depends on your meta if you need it main board. My meta is filled with miracles and other fair decks, perfect. Storm and Ugin? Not so much..

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Originally Posted by Ponders

On a similar subject has anyone tried standstill?

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Standstill doesn't work if they have any pressure, it is horrible against vial decks, and you don't have any way of productively working underneath it.

Its bad against aggro decks because its too slow. You might find an instance where you are topping under the standstill and building your land-base that way, but i think in most situations you are not going to get standstill down before the aggro player has pressure on the board anyways. On the play against aggro you might get a chance to drop it before they have pressure but only if you have the perfect hand and you get lucky. On the draw you will never get standstill down before they have something on the board. This lead me to conclude that it wouldn't be helpful in the aggro match.

Sided in against storm it might be OK.The combo player will have to pop standstill to try to go off, but any counter-spell would be better in the board most times against the same storm player. Instead of tapping out to play the standstill hoping to draw a counterspell, it is better just to have the counterspell in hand to begin with. Also many times against these decks have the ability to build up the perfect hand to break through a counterwall. Since you cant kill them under standstill by effectively putting your own pressure on the board, they have all the time in the world to wait.

Against control it might be good, but what are the control matches we are scared of? UW miracles, Jeski and Grixis decks are the bread and butter of the 12 Post's amazing matches. We don't need another card to sure up these matches and be bad in the ones we need help on.

But if you were joking ignore me.

I've been playing a hickory woodlot, and it's nice lol

Although I haven't started play testing Ugin in 12 Post yet, we started playtesting it in standard ramp. The card is insane. There was a playtest game where I was able to cast it turn 4 on the play and it was basically unbeatable. Of course, that's a deck with no candles and has to rely on nykthos. Regardless, I think it's a must countercard and seems like a solid sideboard choice for 12 post. The Deed effect also exiles, which prevents decks from delving all the permanents you just destroyed.

His ultimate seems the weakest in 12 post though. Draw 7, gain 7 is sweet, but putting 7 permanents onto the battlefield may just be mediocre because there is a plethora of spells. It will make prime times uncounterable, however you don't get eldrazi cast triggers. His ultimate has a potential to I-win instantly more in MUD due to lightning greaves and forgemaster/blightsteel.

My mission is to obliterate things with Ugin in all 3 formats.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

His ultimate seems the weakest in 12 post though. Draw 7, gain 7 is sweet, but putting 7 permanents onto the battlefield may just be mediocre because there is a plethora of spells. It will make prime times uncounterable, however you don't get eldrazi cast triggers. His ultimate has a potential to I-win instantly more in MUD due to lightning greaves and forgemaster/blightsteel.

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I don't think I'd even sell that short. Our deck is still above 50% permanents, more or less. Getting even "just" a couple of lands and a Map or something is a huge advantage for us. Hell, you could probably just skip out on putting an Eldrazi down and just take advantage of the free lands to cast the thing. It obviously needs testing, and Ugin may or may not work out, but it won't be because his ult is lackluster.

On an unrelated note, I never quite understood Venser until recently. Holy crap is he insane. Can some of you briefly go over some of the shenanigans you can do with him? There's a lot I have to learn about him still...

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Originally Posted by PilotChick

On an unrelated note, I never quite understood Venser until recently. Holy crap is he insane. Can some of you briefly go over some of the shenanigans you can do with him? There's a lot I have to learn about him still...

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Aside from just giving you extra copies of Repeal or Chain of Vapor, here are a few Venser-specific perks:

- Can bounce Inkmoth Nexus against Infect.
- Surprise tech against other Show and Tell decks: put him down and bounce Omniscience, meaning they need at least two Show and Tell to win. If you have a Karakas out, they need to resolve a Cunning Wish to get something like Wipe Away or they need to resolve multiple Shows in the same turn. Point being, it buys you turns. Otherwise, he just bounces Griselbrand, Sneak Attack, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, or whatever else.
- Surprise tech against Storm: cast him and bounce a land in response to would-be hellbent Infernal Tutor.
- Wizard creature type, which means he plays very nicely with Trinket Mage, Meddling Mage, Snapcaster Mage and Glen Elendra Archmage if you're running any of them. Cavern of Souls can make him uncounterable. If I draw a second Cavern it almost always names Wizard.

I'm sure you can think of other uses.

Karakas + Venser + Glimmerposts -> lifegain madness

For some older ppl in format:

Venser + Karakas with mana = (Capsize + mana) / (Remand with buyback ;))

Venser + Karakas + Candelabra + enough Cloudposts (too lazy to do the math right now) = infinite mana

Venser is versatile and almost always has some usage. He is one of the only decent answers to an Omniscience put in by a Show and Tell (note that the opponent can still cast instants like Intuition and Dig Through Time in response to the Venser trigger). The online metagame seems infested with OmniTell right now, so Venser seems like a great inclusion.

I've played a couple of online daily events with Rock Lee's SCGPhilly list and things have went well, but I question some of the choices. I don't think a second Bojuka Bog is really necessary. Most of the decks with Treasure Cruise are busy beating my face when I would have wanted to remove their graveyard, and a land drop is a high cost to pay when I am under pressure. Usually Cavern of Souls is my go-to land to search for in these situations, to force a Prime Time through any card advantage they have acquired.

I also do not understand the purpose of the Wipe Aways. Several times I wished they were extra Repeals, as the latter helps our tempo much better against Delver. Sometimes, I actually prefer the Repeal to be countered, to eat at an opponent's countermagic and make it more likely that a more important Show and Tell can resolve. I don't really have anything to add about Titania, Emperion or Fact or Fiction, since I feel I don't have enough experience trying those.

The Venser and Grips in the sideboard have actually given me a chance against OmniTell, which is great and unusual for me with this deck. I am getting pretty tired of seeing that deck online.

On another note, I have been testing two Carpet of Flowers in the sideboard for a while, and I am always happy to see them against any Delver variant. Allowing us to be proactive and be more liberal with our mana usage in the face of their mana denial strategies is a huge boon for us, and really dampens the best aspect of their deck against us. I have had Delver players force the carpet when I go to play it first turn. Seeing as there is now a thread in the Format Strategy section about Carpet of Flowers, it seems like others are catching on to this new blue bashing.