[Primer] Nic Fit

My 2 cents. The enchantments that nyxfit plays are better than Omniscience on their own. That's why this is even a deck. You only need one activation to be wastly ahead. I agree that with omni plus Emmy is superstrong but it's not uncommon for omnishow players the show in omni then start cantripping finding nothing. Not many fair decks beat a humility that also stops equip, grindstone, wasteland etc. Not many combodecks beat dovescape as they play so many 1 cmc spells. With souls and gsz you're bound to win that war.
I like the bant idea though but not because of omni.

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Originally Posted by JackaBo

My 2 cents. The enchantments that nyxfit plays are better than Omniscience on their own. That's why this is even a deck. You only need one activation to be wastly ahead. I agree that with omni plus Emmy is superstrong but it's not uncommon for omnishow players the show in omni then start cantripping finding nothing. Not many fair decks beat a humility that also stops equip, grindstone, wasteland etc. Not many combodecks beat dovescape as they play so many 1 cmc spells. With souls and gsz you're bound to win that war.
I like the bant idea though but not because of omni.

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I don't dismiss all the other enchants; I suggest playing omni as well on top of it.

Nyx Fit needs a faster kill IMHO and easy wins. S&T Omni is a different deck and the fact that they start cantripping and find "nothing" has also something to do with the fact that their velocity is higher so that remaining cards in their library is also higher = less chance to see the say card.
They usually run more cantrips but I didn't do the math at all so if you are willing to do it, be our guest.

The other way to say it:

You have a wish in hand protected by FOW, a dying Rector on the stack and a choice to make...
Omni + Kukul or one of your lock piece ?

How many of you went to time, at least once, when playing your Nyx Fit version ?

Be honest with yourself, please (and with us if you will).

Regards,

Ralf

I'm calling it quits on SE Nyx Fit. I don't see it going anywhere useful.

I've been following this thread for months but I still don't know what "SE" stands for. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Thanks for all the constructive discussions, I've been learning a lot about this deck and legacy in general. I'm a Manaless Dredge player looking to maybe expand my legacy collection, and some version of Nic Fit will probably be my choice of deck when/if I do it.

SE stands for Systems Engineering, which is a requirements based approach on project development/management. What this means for MtG is that rather than start off with "I want to build a Nic Fit deck" (for instance) you start out with defining what you want your deck to do, what functions you want it to fulfill and so on. First you figure out what you want your deck to do, break that down in functions and numbers, then you try to build a list that focuses on meeting those requirements.

Btw there is an instant deck tech on nyx fit from mtggoldfish on YouTube. Now the deck seems to be called "curses" ;)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E7cSN_uwR_I

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Originally Posted by Echelon

SE stands for Systems Engineering, which is a requirements based approach on project development/management. What this means for MtG is that rather than start off with "I want to build a Nic Fit deck" (for instance) you start out with defining what you want your deck to do, what functions you want it to fulfill and so on. First you figure out what you want your deck to do, break that down in functions and numbers, then you try to build a list that focuses on meeting those requirements.

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Thank you, Echelon. I haven't heard the term Systems Engineering despite being a design engineer myself, but english is not my first language.
That seems like a healthy approach.
I'll keep trying Nic Fit variants on xMage and see what I like.

It's not my first language either. In the Netherlands we do still refer to it as Systems Engineering though. We use it as the go-to method for big infrastructural projects. It helps you break those projects up into smaller, more managable chunks (usually called a system breakdown structure).

I was buying up the enchantments, but waiting on the Rectors themselves. Now they're bought out everywhere and 2-3x the price.

Some of those SE requirements reminds me of the last few Nic Fit decks I played. 6 discard, mandatory 12 pieces of ramp, removal, etc. I think it's a fine approach for roughing out a deck scope prior to fine tuning for a meta or specific approaches.

I think the deck could take a look at how much it wants to force out a Rector through disruption (T3-T4) vs how much it wants to control the board before dropping Rector (T5+). That might just be a little bit of tweaks in Decays or 1 mana kill spells vs discard, Caverns, etc.

As far as Omni goes, I've largely seen that this deck often triggers a Rector while hellbent, partially because it has to drop and trigger Rector so much later than just Turn 2 Show and Tell. That type of scenario wouldn't do well to get Omniscience and then rely on top decks. Being Blue also allows Omni decks to run fewer land slots in general because they can hinge on cantrips to find lands.

It's true that the deck would want to get a two enchantment lock out, but the streams I've seen make the deck largely win once it gets one haymaker out. For example, Splendor vs Lands ends the game unless they have Krosan Grip, because all of the lands do absolutely nothing. Delver decks can get knocked out by the one-sided Reality. Plus, while the opponent is having to deal with whatever Curse you just dropped, it gives you a little breathing room to go and grab another Rector.

The only enchantment I see as a little iffy is actually Dovescape because it requires you to have some set up before firing off and it can backfire if you don't sequence correctly.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

I'm calling it quits on SE Nyx Fit. I don't see it going anywhere useful.

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I kind of ran into the same problem, Navsi encountered a similar issue the other day when running the numbers. It seems the percentages we're shooting for aren't really obtainable. I think evolutions of the deck need to look not at speeding it up (which is really the domain combo decks like Reanimator and S&S are playing in anyways) and instead looking at how to draw the game out and have a slow but unbeatable lock.

Mtg goldfish also streamed a league with nyx fit
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...curses-nyx-fit

Is the price of key pieces grown that much recently? the deck looks very very popular lately

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Originally Posted by menph

Mtg goldfish also streamed a league with nyx fit
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...curses-nyx-fit

Is the price of key pieces grown that much recently? the deck looks very very popular lately

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Rector has doubled, the rest has held steady.

It's really popular, I can't wait for the hype to die down myself. The deck just strikes me as being way too casual, but a lot of people are having fun with it right now.

Making another pass at an Azcanta build. The builds a couple pages back failed. Specifically, the PW build just gets pulled in too many directions.

So my next thought is to try revitalizing an equipment build. SFM isn't doing too well right now, but Azcanta can find equipment too, and often times you would rather naturally draw the equipment anyways, it's really only Batterskull where that's not true.

Lands 21
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

Creatures 15
1 Walking Ballista
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Dark Confidant
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth

Spells 25
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Made a couple changes. -1 forest +1 island, -1 fire and ice +1 feast and famine. This deck generates so much value.

Stuff I'm liking:
2/2 split on Bob/Jace. This lets you stack them, it hedges against removal or deed a bit and saves some life. I've tried 4 in either direction and a split now and a 2/2 split has been by far the strongest configuration.

Nissa is solid.

Azcanta is great. It's a good fit in this deck, and this build can take advantage. I'm loving the equipments as hits. F&F specifically is good because it can untap Azcanta for a second activation. That interaction is extremely powerful. I don't know if this deck can build around it to a large enough extent, but I believe that interaction is strong enough to be the backbone of a T1 deck.

Stuff I'm not liking:
Ballista, Glissa, and Meren are poor threats. Meren shrinks the GY as does Glissa (sometimes) and none of them are powerful enough creatures. They fit the right spots on the curve, but they're too small. Glissa can maybe hold her own because nothing beats her in combat but the other two should definitely be replaced.

Played a full day of Nyx Fit yesterday, started out with the following build:

Main (61):
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Lingering Souls
4 Academy Rector

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Collective Brutality
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Pernicious Deed

3 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library
3 Evolutionary Leap

1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Dovescape
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming splendor

Sideboard:
3 Duress
2 Lost Legacy
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Abrupt Decay

The starting 76 felt clunky, with card velocity being the main problem. I quickly switched out the Collective Brutalities for a set of Swords to Plowshares. This felt better, like I had more room to wiggle. It does put a bit more strain on the manabase though, as you need your third colour sooner. The manabase held up nicely though, mostly fetching me basics throughout the day without fail.

For context, most of my testing was vs. Grixis Delver (w/ Stifles and a MD Tropical Island for his set of DRS) and a freak D&T build that dropped Thoughtknot Seers.

Grixis was rough, although after boarding (+2 Abrupt Decay, +3 Duress) percentages went from 30/70 to about 50/50 since I was able to go toe to toe with them during the early game and overpower them afterwards. Casting & flashbacking 2 Lingering Souls one after the other helped out a lot too.

Freak D&T went from 40/60 to probably 65/35 after boarding (+2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Pithing Needle, +1 Reclamation Sage, +2 Golgari Charm). Amongst the cards I boarded out were 3 Veteran Explorers, which worked out quite well. Them not having all the mana let me answer the things they could play until I could resolve some Rector triggers. It also helped that postboard I had 9 outs to Rest in Peace (which my opponent ran 2 of postboard).

Throughout the day the Guiles and Library proved to be quite vital, by the way. I'm at a total of 4 of those and can highly recommend it, regardless of Deed and the prospect of running into multiple copies and despite popular or prevalent opinion. It's pretty damn good for a combo deck to be able to mimic blue's card selection, even if it feels boring, do-nothing and lackluster. It really isn't. Severing a limb to save the whole is fine, and redundant copies are shuffled away quite easily. Also, the Guiles/Libraries prevent you from drawing your lockpieces, so there's that.

On Collective Brutality - I've been struggling with this one a lot. Popular opinion is that it's great for the combo MUs, but I'm not really sure. The problem here is card velocity. The going rate for a Duress effect (or spot removal) is 1 mana, not 2. This still is Legacy. Being able to attack your opponents' hand is great since we are a combo deck here, but I'm not sure if Brutality is the right card for the job. If we do want that interaction I think we might be better off w/ 1 mana disruption, like Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughtseize or even good old Duress.

I did love my Lingering Souls, but I might be a bit too aggressive with them (flashing them back too quickly). That's something that I'll have to figure out.

Going forward, here is what I think are the most important things are to look into for Nyx Fit:
- Card velocity needs to go up. On streams you see a lot of lists with a lot of relatively high CMC cards that just get stuck in the early game and keel over trying to get out
- Consistency can be an issue when cutting away card selection (which seems to be the first thing to go out of the window everywhere) and replacing them with more fat. Again, this is what you see happening on streams. There was one that went 5-0, after which pretty much all streams had a 2-3 or worse record. Take from that what you will
- I'd love for this list to have some kind of pivot card that lets you turn the game around without resorting to Rector triggers. I might want a Sigarda somewhere in the 76

Anyways, those were my thoughts on the list for now. Enjoy the last day of the year!

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Going forward, here is what I think are the most important things are to look into for Nyx Fit:
- Card velocity needs to go up. On streams you see a lot of lists with a lot of relatively high CMC cards that just get stuck in the early game and keel over trying to get out
- Consistency can be an issue when cutting away card selection (which seems to be the first thing to go out of the window everywhere) and replacing them with more fat. Again, this is what you see happening on streams. There was one that went 5-0, after which pretty much all streams had a 2-3 or worse record. Take from that what you will
- I'd love for this list to have some kind of pivot card that lets you turn the game around without resorting to Rector triggers.

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I agree with these thoughts. This type of deck really is held back by not having access to Sensei's Top.
Happy brewing.

Quick question; looking into BUG variant and I’m sitting here looking at the card Mask of the Mimic... can I cast this card targeting my explorer, trigger for lands and immediately get another explorer in play? Same question if I target an academy rector...

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Quick question; looking into BUG variant and I’m sitting here looking at the card Mask of the Mimic... can I cast this card targeting my explorer, trigger for lands and immediately get another explorer in play? Same question if I target an academy rector...

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No. You sac as part of cost. You need another creature to target for the search function.

Are people still playing punishing fire?

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm

Are people still playing punishing fire?

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Nope