[Deck] GW/x Maverick

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Clearly.

Anyway, Qasali Pridemage is in no way "strictly better" (figuratively speaking) than Reclamation Sage. Being a two-for-one is far more significant than you're making it out to be. Yes, Harmonic Sliver existed, but it was also a piece of shit for exactly the reasons you mentioned. One power is the difference between Lightning Bolt and Shock, and it's also your defense of Qasali Pridemage.

The fact of the matter is just that Qasali Pridemage fits better in a maindeck when you're unsure whether there will be relevant targets presented.

Also, to answer Strassbaw's question that wasn't actually phrased as a question, I too am a general fan of Reclamation Sage, but it, unfortunately, has yet to make it into any finished sideboard of mine. Reason being that there's honestly just more tons more deserving things to put in the sideboard. Also, being a trigger, Reclamation Sage shouldn't be your go-to guy for defeating Omni. I'd definitely bring it in if I had one, but they can easily win around it in most circumstances.

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Thanks for the feedback lolwut, jelly doughnut and Rekk.


Most often I have opted for 1 pridemage effect in the main deck and sage in the board, however, I think I may have over valued Pridemage against omni game one, and I am currently running 2 in my most recent winning lists which may change. The sage has not only hit Pithing needles that have named pridemage, and Cursed totems, but it has also been the artifact kill, and Jitte equipment bearer all in one card. In fact, getting a pridemage for 1 less mana with GSZ seems to be an unrealistic advantage. If you need to activate pridemage (losing your 2/2 exalated body) that turn, it's the same mana as Sage and you lose the body. If killing equipments, or CB (cards that cost more than 1-2 are better CB killers) is prevalent in your metagame than sage is worth considering.

When Sage fights Omnitell, I think you raise a good point about how ineffective this card may become because of wish. This is a disappointing realisation I had because Dig Through Time is also an instant, and they can resolve that spell finding all types of good stuff for free while Rec Sage trigger is on the stack. This is truly a bummer! I'll post results against the deck with how I'm outfitted currently, but I think without Thalia right now, I may be dead in the water against Omnitell (even with Rebs and Etutor canonist in board).


Ps. @ Rekk, I may have read it wrong, but Rec Sage does not kill humility unfortunately if that was a positive side of the card some players may have seen. Humilty makes sage a 1/1 with no effects because it's an ETB trigger not an "As it enters the battlefield" effect.

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Originally Posted by Strassbaw

When Sage fights Omnitell, I think you raise a good point about how ineffective this card may become because of wish. This is a disappointing realisation I had because Dig Through Time is also an instant, and they can resolve that spell finding all types of good stuff for free while Rec Sage trigger is on the stack. This is truly a bummer! I'll post results against the deck with how I'm outfitted currently, but I think without Thalia right now, I may be dead in the water against Omnitell (even with Rebs and Etutor canonist in board).

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It's not a certainty that they'll have the kill in response, but considering the limited amount of relevant pressure Maverick can apply, it's relatively common. I mean, again, it's definitely worth boarding in Reclamation Sage against OmniShow if you have one in your board. It's just not Krosan Grip. You can't pack it in, leave yourself with opportunity to put it into play, and consider the job done. It just better than nothing and can get the job done with what could be considered a reasonable frequency. Mainly you need to rely on them either having a shitty hand or you need to have an Ethersworn Canonist in conjunction.

With all that in mind, it's actually worth noting that Qasali Pridemage is actually better than Reclamation Sage off of Show and Tell since you can pop it in response to whatever they cast first.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

With all that in mind, it's actually worth noting that Qasali Pridemage is actually better than Reclamation Sage off of Show and Tell since you can pop it in response to whatever they cast first.

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Except for Emrakul.

Basically, if they can go off at instant speed then Pridemage is better; I faced that problem when I faced S&T with Dredge and happily plopped down Ashen Rider before losing to Release the Ants. If they need to cast a sorcery or a non-flashy creature then an EtB creature is better since you get priority before the stack empties. So it's important to know your meta and know what the different versions of the stock decks are most likely to play.

Well, these days it's a gamble either way. Sneak and Show has been almost totally replaced by Omni-Tell, which will either hard cast Emrakul or a Cunning Wish depending. That match revolves a lot less around sticking a Sage or Pridemage than it does Thalia, Ethersworn Canonist, and Containment Priest.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Anyway, Qasali Pridemage is in no way "strictly better" (figuratively speaking) than Reclamation Sage. Being a two-for-one is far more significant than you're making it out to be. Yes, Harmonic Sliver existed, but it was also a piece of shit for exactly the reasons you mentioned. One power is the difference between Lightning Bolt and Shock, and it's also your defense of Qasali Pridemage.

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Actually, my defense of Pridemage was

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Originally Posted by LOLWut

Namely, blowing stuff up at instant speed, GSZing for one less mana, and being able to fetch it and beat with it until you need its ability instead of having to wait until the troublesome artifact/enchantment appears.

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One power, and the other combat stuff, are things in the realm of Sage's 2-for-1, that mitigate that one advantage, and tip the scales a little more. It's a minor detail instead of your whole argument regarding Sage/Sliver.

I'm very skeptical that 1 point of power (Sliver's :w: is irrelevant in Maverick and you won't be wanting for targets on the opposite side of the table in the match-ups you bring it in, so that's the only different between the two) turns the inferior Sliver into the candidate Sage. I'm also skeptical that that 1 point of power is more relevant than things like: not needing 4 (or even 5 with Thalia) mana to GSZ for it, knowing you'll need it in the match-up and not having to hold up the GSZ and lose beatface time, being able to destroy equipment cast and equipped in the same turn, being able to response to things shrouded with Greaves or whatever, popping it on their turn when you really need to against Painter's Servant, Helm of Obedience, Counterbalance, etc, and other shtuff. Plus, Torpor Orb is gonna hose your brains out :laugh:

Krosan Grip is where I'd rather be. 2:2 with QPM and Scooze and just run like 2 grips + QPM #3 in the side

Rec Sage is card advantage--don't think of it as anything else. Its first goal is to allow you to make gains and value trades vs slow decks.

I ran sex monkey before rec sage's printing. And if it wasn't for show and tell (either variant) I'd probably be running sex monkey over rec sage for the extra toughness.

I currently run 4 Qasali (main) 2 Abrupt (Side) 1 Rec Sage (Side)

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library. It took me a while, but I find Sylvan Library to be green's "brainstorm". The effect is way too powerful that I would never want to run less than two (maybe 1 main and 1 side for heavy combo/tempo metas). What is the value in Courser? I tried testing him and was never overly thrilled to hard cast it and would never find myself green sun zennithing for him either. The only time he has been exceptional was against other fair grindy matchups, which I feel is already our strong suit. So more of a "win more" scenario. I know Herzog is the innovator that placed Courser in the 75, and a lot of people take his word as gold, but can people tell me why they Courser is so good? Maybe there is something that I am missing. I'm currently running two scavenging ooze mainboard and would think that I could go down on 1 if there is value in including Courser.

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library. It took me a while, but I find Sylvan Library to be green's "brainstorm". The effect is way too powerful that I would never want to run less than two (maybe 1 main and 1 side for heavy combo/tempo metas). What is the value in Courser? I tried testing him and was never overly thrilled to hard cast it and would never find myself green sun zennithing for him either. The only time he has been exceptional was against other fair grindy matchups, which I feel is already our strong suit. So more of a "win more" scenario. I know Herzog is the innovator that placed Courser in the 75, and a lot of people take his word as gold, but can people tell me why they Courser is so good? Maybe there is something that I am missing. I'm currently running two scavenging ooze mainboard and would think that I could go down on 1 if there is value in including Courser.

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Not to troll, but have you even played with Courser? He's fantastic against a fair and delver heavy meta. He net gains you life while blocking and ANYTHING involving lands boosts you a ton. I've won games thanks to Courser stabilizing me at ~5 life....floating me back to ~10+. Courser only gets better with top/library/KotR/fetches.
Right now, the top decks are heavily stacked against Maverick, but it doesn't take away from his value against everyone else.

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library.

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If it's a straight up choice between Courser or Library, Library wins. Every time. But if you're looking at Library number two or number three, the idea of a Sylvan Library on legs becomes far more appealing. And that's what Courser of Kruphix is. He's card filter, card advantage, and he's got legs. The only real downside is that he's not a 2/2 at 2cc.

Courser + Library go together better than peanut butter and chocolate. It feels like cheating.

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Originally Posted by Warden

Not to troll, but have you even played with Courser? He's fantastic against a fair and delver heavy meta. He net gains you life while blocking and ANYTHING involving lands boosts you a ton. I've won games thanks to Courser stabilizing me at ~5 life....floating me back to ~10+. Courser only gets better with top/library/KotR/fetches.
Right now, the top decks are heavily stacked against Maverick, but it doesn't take away from his value against everyone else.

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See again, we are already set up to beat delver and other fair decks, so to me Courser seems like a win more. I would be more inclined to add 2x Spirit of the Lab to the mainboard to combat miracles, omniscience, elves, and other decks that we have trouble with. I don't know, I'll play test with him more and see if I can see what everyone else sees.

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

See again, we are already set up to beat delver and other fair decks, so to me Courser seems like a win more. I would be more inclined to add 2x Spirit of the Lab to the mainboard to combat miracles, omniscience, elves, and other decks that we have trouble with. I don't know, I'll play test with him more and see if I can see what everyone else sees.

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Courser has two main strengths.

1st: Think of a fair creature that sees plenty of play other than Goyf, Knight and Ooze that beats Courser, then think about that same creature in a game state with little to no graveyards. Courser bullies most creatures in Legacy that are not outright played to be massive all while gaining life and drawing cards.

2nd: He draws cards vs miracles, has 4 toughness + lifegain vs burn, is bigger than almost everything D&T/BUG has, gives you a fatty vs grave hate, etc... He kind of does everything you want your 61st card to do.

Think of him as like a fatter Scryb Ranger. Looks crappy, but after playing with it for a while you realize its much more dynamic than it appears. The drawback is that its card power is kinda of the same as Scryb Ranger.

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Originally Posted by Strassbaw

Hello Maverick Players,

I am still piloting Punishing Dark Maverick with a good deal of success. Recently, Omnitell has made a big impact at my local game store, and I am choosing a few cards to adjust in my deck to improve my decks ability to fight what's been current in the top 8's.

The first card I am looking at for the main deck is Spirit of the Labyrinth. Most players seem to be playing blue decks with lots of extra cantrips to promote Dig Through Time. This card seems like a great way to slow decks down, and cards like Forked Bolt are a lot less played now that TC is banned.

The next thing I wanna discuss is REB/Pyroblast in the board. Currently I have been running 2 Pyroblast in the board, however, I am considering uping the number to 3 to deal with all the Blue decks. Is 3 overkill? I've looked at Punishing Maverick historically, and many players never opted for more than 2 Rebs in an Etutor package.

Last I wanna talk about Aven Mindcensor. This card was a staple in the deck before Thalia was printed, and many players have opted against this card recently. Has anyone tried this card recently? The card has bought me a turn or 2 against Omnitell, and it flys, so equiping it has been a great way to get around Elves or sometimes Mother of Ruins.

Good luck to those daring enough not to play Brainstorm right now!

Here is my current 75 with experimental build for current meta:


---Punishing Dark Maverick---

21 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Spirit of the Labyrinth 2
Aven mindcensor 2
Gadock teeg 1
Scavenging ooze 1
Qasali pridemage 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 24

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Thespian stage 1
Dark depths 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 2
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Gadock teeg 1
Bajaku bog 1

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I really like this deck...I'm new to this forum and searching for a deck, non blue cause i don't like that colour, that fit my style...I found this and Nic Fit deck (both with punishing fire variant)...I ask you some questions:

- is this deck viable in this metagame?? What are his best and worse MU??
- what is his best conformation??
- the style of the deck is like a Death & Taxes or i totally do not understand the goal of the deck??

thanks a lot for your answers and sorry if my english is not so good, but i'm from Italy

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Originally Posted by meso94

I really like this deck...I'm new to this forum and searching for a deck, non blue cause i don't like that colour, that fit my style...I found this and Nic Fit deck (both with punishing fire variant)...I ask you some questions:

- is this deck viable in this metagame?? What are his best and worse MU??
- what is his best conformation??
- the style of the deck is like a Death & Taxes or i totally do not understand the goal of the deck??

thanks a lot for your answers and sorry if my english is not so good, but i'm from Italy

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Hello Meso94 and thanks for asking about the list. In the past I have had a lot of success with Punishing Maverick, and today I am still do very well with the list after a few meta adjustments to the deck. When Treasure Cruise was a card, UR delver was a huge part of the meta, and I played Stone Forge Mystic with Batterskull. SFM is not usually a card I want in this deck, as Punishing fire beats most fair decks, but at that time Batterskull SFM was correct.

Now I have to adjust to the decks people are playing now , and I have opted to play both Thalia and Punishing fire in the same deck for a few weeks now. I have done very well with the inclusion of Thalia against Show and Tell and Miracles, while still doing well against the various delver decks. I have not had time to test Thalia in other matchups, but I'm sure she can be useful even if she is a Non-Bo with Punishing Fire Combo.

This is the 75 I will be running for the Philadelphia Area Legacy Series:

---Punishing Dark Maverick---

22 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
Gadock teeg 2
Qasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 23

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Cavern of souls 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 3
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1


I dropped the DD/Stage for cavern of Souls, and I dropped Mindcensor once I added Thalia into the deck. The Pyroblast have been amazing in this meta, as most decks are blue now and the deck runs plenty of Red sources. This deck is 100% viable in my eyes, just be careful as to how you play your lands because the mana base is fragile. 4C pun fire decks are inherently weak to wasteland so play carefully. Good luck and please feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

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Originally Posted by Strassbaw

Hello Meso94 and thanks for asking about the list. In the past I have had a lot of success with Punishing Maverick, and today I am still do very well with the list after a few meta adjustments to the deck. When Treasure Cruise was a card, UR delver was a huge part of the meta, and I played Stone Forge Mystic with Batterskull. SFM is not usually a card I want in this deck, as Punishing fire beats most fair decks, but at that time Batterskull SFM was correct.

Now I have to adjust to the decks people are playing now , and I have opted to play both Thalia and Punishing fire in the same deck for a few weeks now. I have done very well with the inclusion of Thalia against Show and Tell and Miracles, while still doing well against the various delver decks. I have not had time to test Thalia in other matchups, but I'm sure she can be useful even if she is a Non-Bo with Punishing Fire Combo.

This is the 75 I will be running for the Philadelphia Area Legacy Series:

---Punishing Dark Maverick---

22 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
Gadock teeg 2
Qasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 23

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Cavern of souls 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 3
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1


I dropped the DD/Stage for cavern of Souls, and I dropped Mindcensor once I added Thalia into the deck. The Pyroblast have been amazing in this meta, as most decks are blue now and the deck runs plenty of Red sources. This deck is 100% viable in my eyes, just be careful as to how you play your lands because the mana base is fragile. 4C pun fire decks are inherently weak to wasteland so play carefully. Good luck and please feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

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I have other questions about what are best and worse MU for this particular deck, and why choose it over other version like GW??

You really don't want to play punishing fire and Thalia in the same deck. Especially as a 4 of. Punishing fire recursion is super expensive as it is(3 per damage) and at 4 per shit you will not be able to do anything else.

The straight GW version is better against miracles even though the red version has blasts in the board. More pride ages and haddock teegs are the best way to beat miracles. The same is true for combo with Thalia's, teegs and ober bear.

The punishng fires were always for the creature mirrors and the punishing version was created to win the maverick late game and as a more efficient way to kill an active mother of runes. The blasts were more to force through chokes than to counter anything.

Maverick in general is extremely mana hungry so I don't know why you would want to open yourself up to more color screw(also why the red version usually main decked a loam).

So: GW better against combo, miracles, random.dec, midrange aggro

Punishing fire better in the mirror.

Both versions are doing against delver decks and both versions still have a bad miracles matchup, hence why no one plays maverick.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

You really don't want to play punishing fire and Thalia in the same deck. Especially as a 4 of. Punishing fire recursion is super expensive as it is(3 per damage) and at 4 per shit you will not be able to do anything else.

The straight GW version is better against miracles even though the red version has blasts in the board. More pride ages and haddock teegs are the best way to beat miracles. The same is true for combo with Thalia's, teegs and ober bear.

The punishng fires were always for the creature mirrors and the punishing version was created to win the maverick late game and as a more efficient way to kill an active mother of runes. The blasts were more to force through chokes than to counter anything.

Maverick in general is extremely mana hungry so I don't know why you would want to open yourself up to more color screw(also why the red version usually main decked a loam).

So: GW better against combo, miracles, random.dec, midrange aggro

Punishing fire better in the mirror.

Both versions are doing against delver decks and both versions still have a bad miracles matchup, hence why no one plays maverick.

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With those informations i think that generally the GW Version is more powerful and reliable with differents MU, i can't choose between this deck and Nic Fit, what deck do you think is much better in this meta?? I'm new to legacy, pass from Modern (cause of lots of speculations) in those days and i'm thinking of what deck cuold be mine...i really hate bleu deck, i can't play with them...any suggestions?? (sorry for this little off-topic)

It's too bad that Worldspine Wurm only trigger upon death and not when it leaves the battlefield. That would be a great anti terminus/swords to Plowshares card. If that was the case then I could see Maverick taking the Natural Order route. I saw elves resolve a Ruric Thar against Omni show and they Omni couldn't deal. Even though that isn't the worst matchup for us, it would be a good way to battle the meta. Progenitus for the fair matchups, Ruric Thar for the combo and Worldspine Wurm for the contol. If only we had a giant green monster that left dudes behind after they leave the battlefield.

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Originally Posted by meso94

With those informations i think that generally the GW Version is more powerful and reliable with differents MU, i can't choose between this deck and Nic Fit, what deck do you think is much better in this meta?? I'm new to legacy, pass from Modern (cause of lots of speculations) in those days and i'm thinking of what deck cuold be mine...i really hate bleu deck, i can't play with them...any suggestions?? (sorry for this little off-topic)

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I don't think it has been clearly stated, but I don't think you want to be playing a straight GW list today. Deathrite Shaman plus discard and sweepers in the sideboard go a long way in shoring up some of the deck's weaknesses. You can get away with as few as 1 or 2 black duals to play this splash, so the deckbuilding cost is fairly low while the upside is very high.

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

It's too bad that Worldspine Wurm only trigger upon death and not when it leaves the battlefield. That would be a great anti terminus/swords to Plowshares card. If that was the case then I could see Maverick taking the Natural Order route. I saw elves resolve a Ruric Thar against Omni show and they Omni couldn't deal. Even though that isn't the worst matchup for us, it would be a good way to battle the meta. Progenitus for the fair matchups, Ruric Thar for the combo and Worldspine Wurm for the contol. If only we had a giant green monster that left dudes behind after they leave the battlefield.

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Soooo....Thragtusk? :cool:

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

It's too bad that Worldspine Wurm only trigger upon death and not when it leaves the battlefield. That would be a great anti terminus/swords to Plowshares card. If that was the case then I could see Maverick taking the Natural Order route. I saw elves resolve a Ruric Thar against Omni show and they Omni couldn't deal. Even though that isn't the worst matchup for us, it would be a good way to battle the meta. Progenitus for the fair matchups, Ruric Thar for the combo and Worldspine Wurm for the contol. If only we had a giant green monster that left dudes behind after they leave the battlefield.

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I've run NO in the sideboard but you really hedge your bets against fair stuff. The NO --> Pro/Ruric/something requires you to live until turn 3 or 4. Omni is frustrating because it can just win before you dump ruric on the field. There's no way you can muscle Ruric out faster.

For Miracles, I sometimes wish I had Ruric but in reality he doesn't do a whole lot. If they swords or terminus, they can afford 6 life. Jace bounces him for days. Entreat can still lethal you with him on the table.

I can't tell if Maverick needs to evolve in another direction or go back to its roots with focusing on denial & bear plans. The meta appears to be against that 'in-between' midrange plan (more recent lists with decay and fewer dedicated bears). I love this deck against a fair room. The minute I see control or combo, I'm screwed.

@Warden - I think if you were to build around Natural Order you would need more mana dorks and hold them off in the beginning with Thalia, Spirit of the Lab and teeg. Probably forgo the black route in favor for bears and NO into your wincon. However, terminus seems to be the thing that would hold back this strategy.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=86011 Here is an interesting list where they use Living Wish. I would tweak somethings like add Phyrexian Revoker, Canonist and Karakas to the Board. I would also take out Batterskull and add Sylvan Library to the main. An interesting thing would be to add something like Shriekmaw to the board as it can kill Emerkul.

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Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey

@Warden - I think if you were to build around Natural Order you would need more mana dorks and hold them off in the beginning with Thalia, Spirit of the Lab and teeg. Probably forgo the black route in favor for bears and NO into your wincon. However, terminus seems to be the thing that would hold back this strategy.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=86011 Here is an interesting list where they use Living Wish. I would tweak somethings like add Phyrexian Revoker, Canonist and Karakas to the Board. I would also take out Batterskull and add Sylvan Library to the main. An interesting thing would be to add something like Shriekmaw to the board as it can kill Emerkul.

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You don't want Thalia with NO. It complicates things considerably. In the GP:NJ trial I won, I generally traded Thalias for NO straight up and pulled some irrelevant 1-2 slots for the target. But again, you need a meta that lets you play NO in the first place (fair decks lacking countermagic is a nice mix. The current blend of top decks is not too favorable).

As for the deck you posted, Idk if I like wish in that spot. Feels too slow and too dependent upon having it go through.

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Originally Posted by meso94

With those informations i think that generally the GW Version is more powerful and reliable with differents MU, i can't choose between this deck and Nic Fit, what deck do you think is much better in this meta?? I'm new to legacy, pass from Modern (cause of lots of speculations) in those days and i'm thinking of what deck cuold be mine...i really hate bleu deck, i can't play with them...any suggestions?? (sorry for this little off-topic)

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Neither are super good at the moment but maverick is much better than durdle.deck

I made top 8 at mythic today. Small 5 round event. Will post a list sometime soon.

Key notes:
1. 2x Sensei's Top instead of 2x Sylvan Library worked wonderfully, as predicted
2. KotR is still my girl kicking asses and taking names
3. Sword of Light and Shadow was a champ today

If your metagame is infested with Grixis Dig, Miracles, and Omnitell like mine is, I recommend running 2 Gaddock Teeg, and maybe even 1 more out of the board. Another thing that I have been contemplating is going back to a Viciano/Aether Vial list with RIP in the board. I have not experimented by using RIP vs these tasigur/gurmag/snapcaster/dig through time decks, but I think it might be worthwhile. Also shardless is still a thing, and I have always hated getting RIP'ed when I played any DRS/Goyf deck.

Another thing that would be nice about the vial list is the mana stability to run Cavern of Souls. Ethersworn canonist is becoming increasingly important to resolve these days as people are shifting away from sneak attack and towards omniscience. Weathered wayfarer and knight can take care of a shown/told emrakul if they go for that plan.

I dunno just some ideas I have been mulling over. Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warden

I made top 8 at mythic today. Small 5 round event. Will post a list sometime soon.

Key notes:
1. 2x Sensei's Top instead of 2x Sylvan Library worked wonderfully, as predicted
2. KotR is still my girl kicking asses and taking names
3. Sword of Light and Shadow was a champ today

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Which matchups did play against?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warden

IKey notes:
1. 2x Sensei's Top instead of 2x Sylvan Library worked wonderfully, as predicted

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So what was it you liked better about Top? I'm intrigued.

I won't write a book, but I will give insight. First, I haven't played magic in about a month. Had 3 weddings across 3 concurrent weekends, so that's where my head and money have been. Felt good to go back to the game and sling some cardboard. I still openly doubt Maverick in the grand 'Murican meta but as long as you pair against fair decks, Maverick is always in-contention. I was really 50-50 on going, but it looks like I made the right call.

Mythic Games - June / Top 8 / GWb Dark Maverick / Chris Scagnelli

Creatures
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes

3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddok Teeg

4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Courser of Kruphix

Non-Creatures
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Abrupt Decay

2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow

Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Forest
1x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Gaeas Cradle
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor

SB:
2x Ethersworn Cannoist
2x Krosan Grip
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Toxic Deluge
3x Natural Order
1x Progenitus
1x Ruric Thar
1x Gaddok Teeg
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
=======

Quickly from memory, some scraps for lifetotals as reference.

R1. Jeremy with 4C Delver (URbg) / W
-I take game 1 by turning things around. He's got delver, pyro, drs, daze, force, pierce, bstorm, ponder, and some amount of Dig. I know DRS holds his mana together, so wasteland + nuking DRS is key.
-I keep an opening hand of double wasteland + fetch + stuff. He turn 1 volc -> delver. I waste. Usually this pays off but he blind flips. Lays sea. cantrips or something. I waste that Sea. I can't assemble mana as he DOES has FoW and then Forked Bolt. This is the cliche "turn 1 delver - protect it - win" godhand. My life reads: 20, 19, 16, 13, 12, 9, 6, scoop. He's at 18 :/
-I play tight and manage to Scooze + SFM. The game isn't quick but at some point (my turn 5? 6?), I gain momentum and never look back. I stabilize at 10, then fall to 9. But he plummets from 19 to 16 to 14 to 6. In this final game his pokemon cards (pyro tokens) were the only thing holding him back from imminent death. At the later turns, I have a big Knight. I remember just swinging away because he needed those tokens if he were to grind-win/outpace my big guns.
*KotR were consistently double digits against him all match.

R2. Ben with Red Painter / L
-I know Ben is on painter. Kept a fetchland heavy hand hoping to "make fetch happen" but he turn 1 has the blood moon. He spills his deck in terms of components: I see recruiters, servant, grindstone, SSG, plateaus.
-Game 2 I bring in the vengeance and kick the shit out of him. He scooped very quickly (i guess deeming he's got nothing).
-Game 3 was ugly. I mull into decent stuff. My notes read "stupid". He got a fast magus. I am a turn behind as I have Dryad Arbor, who is a 1/1 mountain dude. Dryad needed 1 more turn to swing with Fire/Ice and bail me out. I was a turn too slow. He pulls the "well i just win" via SSG. Stupid.

R3. Carl with DnT / W
-I see Karakas, STP, and Rishadan after he mulled to 6. I win with lifetotals reading 18 vs 8. He just got blown out.
-Rusty match. I feel my hand was decent but the combination of "I suck and haven't played" + "I dont play in general" + "he got insane land sequencing" wins. I lose to a key wasteland + 2 rishadans. I can't muscle out the bombs sitting in hand (KotR x2 and a ZP). I manage to STP 2 of his threats off a lone plains. But he drops a second brimaz (dude #3) and I just can't get mana.
-I run past him quickly. He has next to nothing going on. I think I had a well timed QPM and wasteland, which holds him off doing anything while I beat.

R4. Steve with Nic Fit / Draw
I lose a long game 1. He uses shocks but managed to just make it to the long game following a deed that blew me out. I note that he plays slow, which is a statement coming from me. I play below average/average speed and he was just not making moves. I ask him to pick it up because we got 25 mins going into game 2. I don't regret playing things out a bit to get more information. Doing so helped set up game 2's win. Time lost where I coulda scooped cost me a potential game 3.
I kill him game 2. Pain in the ass grind but I actually won through hard-casting Ruric (thank you DRS). Ruric meant deeds or recurring would be near-lethal. Ruric also cleared out a shit ton of his board.
Game 3 I have a VERY winnable hand but we have like 2-3 minutes before turns. If we played for real, I'd need another 5 minutes max. Unfortunately I don't have that much time.
*NO package very real threat here

R5. Timur with Grixis Delver/Pyro brew / W
*Intentionally scooped to me because Timur is a gentleman. The bracket was weird and he would need a lot to break correctly should he win. I would be a guaranteed top 8. We playtest and by this point I'm exhausted. He stomps me and we talk legacy. Timur always provides genius stats and insight. I really appreciate him analyzing the match. He doesn't think the SDT thing is stupid. He think Top vs Library is playstyle and me "playing the long game rather than the early game". He's totally right. I won games with top that were grindy and/or required long term deck manipulation. He thinks top in Maverick isn't crazy. Props to Timur for being a gentleman.

Top 8
Quarters. Dan (store owner) with DnT / Chop
-I wait like 40 minutes for Dan, which was frustrating but he's a good guy. Game 1 I either punt or lose to luck or both.
-Game 2 I run through him casting RIP and making a fatal misplay (equipping jitte on SFM and swinging into my Mom). I light and shadow him to death while blowing up 2 straight equipment via pridemage. QPM is a hero sometimes.
-Game 3 I play smart and manage to pull awful topdecks down the stretch. I have 2 DRS, Noble, a gigantic KotR, and SFM + Light and Shadow vs his Batterskull (equipped with Fire/Ice) + Mom + SFM. At some point, he casts Containment Priest. I try to race Batterskull with super Knight while he's relyign on 2 plains and 2 Vials to do something. He offers to chop, which I blow off. At this point everyone is watching. I go to swing with knight and he vials in flickerwisp. ouch. I ask if the chop is still on the table, as i wonder wtf i did to punt. He accepts. Almost immediately after, my good friend Ben (not round 2 dude) says vial + priest should have nuked Mom #2 and Flicker. We all missed that interaction. it didn't bother me, but I still question if I coulda won past the boardstate. I was sitting on a STP to nerf damage from batterskull once. I am not too salty, as I had a good run. Plus Dan gives me a small % of his split, signaling how I shoulda won that match (no mom #2 or flicker to stay on table). I had SO MANY OUTS to dan (2 grips, qpm, toxics, zp, etc, sitting on STP to nerf batterskull for a turn). Hey, you can't fault a good day.

@Cambriel: Top just works better for me. I love it as a turn 1 play. I love it as a turn 2 play, leaving me open to STP or drop a dork. I love it over the course of a game. I love it working ridiculously well with Kruphix. It's unfair when you can just filter stuff with Kruphix out and gain life. Top also wins me some games when I can filter on a stalled boardstate. Library would require me to wait or pay extra life to accelerate. Sometimes I need to rearrange multiple times before I draw (ie; top on my turn, top on their turn due to new circumstances). Just like miracles, Top is also strong with lots of shuffling and fetches.

Howdy, I started playing Legacy about six months ago. I absolutely love it, and I want to start building a second deck. I am two duals, a Karakas, and one SFM away from the following version of Dark Maverick.

Creatures
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes

4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg

4x Knight of the Reliquary

Non-Creatures
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay

1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas

Could you all help me build a SB? I only play in small local events. These are the match-ups I want to be ready for (in order of importance): DnT, Miracles, MUD, OmniTell, Storm, Reanimator, and the mirror-match. Thank you all in advance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by philipneri

Could you all help me build a SB? I only play in small local events. These are the match-ups I want to be ready for (in order of importance): DnT, Miracles, MUD, OmniTell, Storm, Reanimator, and the mirror-match. Thank you all in advance.

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2x Teeg in the board is good, especially vs Miracles. Increases chance of drawing it, and you can be damn sure they're gonna Swords him or Judgement him as soon as possible, so having more to find with GSZ is pretty awesome. DnT is already in your favor, but Zealous Persecution wrecks them pretty hard, 1 or 2 in the board is solid. I played 4 Thoughtseize in the board when I last played Maverick, which can really help against combo decks. 2-3 Containment Priest is insane for the Reanimator match up, and is good against Elves, DnT, SnT, and Dredge as well. 1 Pithing Needle is good against many things, but I'm a bit biased towards the card, and rarely leave it out of sideboards. If there's a bunch of Stone-Forge in your meta, Manriki-Gusari is also not a bad inclusion for the SB.

Okay, I am thinking something along these lines:

4x Thoughtseize (combo)
2x Krosan Grip (Miracles, MUD, DnT)
2x Zealous Persecution (DnT, Elves, mirror)
1x Toxic Deluge (DnT, Elves, mirror)
2x Gaddock Teeg (Miracles)
2x Ethersworn Canonist (Storm, OmniTell, Elves)
2x Containment Priest (Reanimator, Elves)

What do you all think of that?

Looks great. K Grip slipped my mind, but it is a great board card for Maverick. Deluge is another good one. Let us know how it works out for ya.

2 deluge instead of 1. I'd swap numbers with that so you can lock down elves and DnT better. the -2/-2 or occasional -3/-3 clinches games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warden

2 deluge instead of 1. I'd swap numbers with that so you can lock down elves and DnT better. the -2/-2 or occasional -3/-3 clinches games.

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I'm a big Deluge Fan over Persecution--but I do not think one is better than the other. Instant + Buffs your team means Zealous Persecution is a great reactive card, big numbers board sweeper means Deluge is a great proactive card. Whichever your playstyle prefers should be what decides between both. Essentially--you can topdeck a deluge and it can 180 the game almost no matter what the board state while persecution you really have to navigate to get the most out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMagpie

I'm a big Deluge Fan over Persecution--but I do not think one is better than the other. Instant + Buffs your team means Zealous Persecution is a great reactive card, big numbers board sweeper means Deluge is a great proactive card. Whichever your playstyle prefers should be what decides between both. Essentially--you can topdeck a deluge and it can 180 the game almost no matter what the board state while persecution you really have to navigate to get the most out of it.

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I specifically address his concerns over Elves and DnT. I find Deluge to be a significantly better card. Elves dies to -2/-2, whereas some of them (DRS, Nettle) survive through ZP and proceed to punish you for doing so. DnT if you can go beyond -1/-1 you basically win. This is especially relevant in the late-game, where Knights can survive Deluge @ 4 (killing off Brimaz and Batterskull if needed).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warden

I specifically address his concerns over Elves and DnT. I find Deluge to be a significantly better card. Elves dies to -2/-2, whereas some of them (DRS, Nettle) survive through ZP and proceed to punish you for doing so. DnT if you can go beyond -1/-1 you basically win. This is especially relevant in the late-game, where Knights can survive Deluge @ 4 (killing off Brimaz and Batterskull if needed).

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No disagreement on all counts. Its the reason I run Deluge over Persecution. But I also know I've saved my board with persecution and I've also done a one sided wrath effect with persecution keeping my moms and thalias alive. Still, sometimes True-Name is wearing a sword of whatever and whatever and you just need to deluge for X.

"Vryn Wingmare-2W
Creature - Pegasus
Flying
Noncreature spells cost 1 more to cast.
2/1"

Source: http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/vrynwingmare.html

Thoughts on the new guy? I like him, and flying is great, but Glowrider has the same effect (sans flying) for the same cost and nobody plays Glowrider. This shouldn't replace Thalia, but I could see it as a 1-2 of somewhere in the 75

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nitrospira

"Vryn Wingmare-2W
Creature - Pegasus
Flying
Noncreature spells cost 1 more to cast.
2/1"

Source: http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/vrynwingmare.html

Thoughts on the new guy? I like him, and flying is great, but Glowrider has the same effect (sans flying) for the same cost and nobody plays Glowrider. This shouldn't replace Thalia, but I could see it as a 1-2 of somewhere in the 75

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Not really. Thalia is the best because she's a 2cc (1+W) taxer with first strike. Anything in the 3-hole needs to really do damage. This is just more of the tax. This flyer still loses to burn, terminus, wrath, and a swarm of opposing creatures. Most of us already don't bother with Aven Mindcensor, who IMO is miles better for the deck as a whole. If you want spells to simply cost more, run 4x Thalia and some amount of Thorn of Amethyst. The pegasus just isnt enough.

Hello!
I'm just getting into legacy and I've chosen maverick as my first deck!

This is the 75 I have in mind, but I'm not 100% sure on it (especially the sideboard).
From the minor proxied testing I have done I have really enjoyed Titania as the curvetopper bomb. She allows us to go wide if the going high plan with Knight of the Reliquary isn't working, as well as having some minor Karakas synergy.

I'd love any type of feedback, negative or positive, but please be constructive. Explain why some card choices are bad/good, I only want to learn more about this awesome format!

Not sure if posting links is allowed, so I put the decklist in here. Please update me if a tappedout link is preferred :)

Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
1 Forest

Creatures (24)
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Birds of Paradise

Instants and Sorceries (10)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

Enchantments (1)
1 Sylvan Library

Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard (15)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cataclysm
2 Choke
1 Council's Judgment
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution