EE is Engineered ExplosivesQuote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
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EE is Engineered ExplosivesQuote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
I've decided to pick up the Mirri's Guiles I need to build this deck (Paul Lynch's version, without the Moat, which I don't own), and I might play it if the metagame looks right at my local store.
I understand that Dredge, Maverick, and Zoo are fairly good matchups (from best to worst). ANT and Reanimator are terrible.
There's quite a bit of UW Stoneblade and RUG at my local store. Would you describe those decks as favorable, roughly even, or unfavorable for a decent (but not great) pilot (assume my hate includes maybe 3-4 Carpet of Flowers, but no City of Solitude and such)? What are the keys to those matchups?
Thanks!
I played against stoneblade, and yes carped of flowers (primaly) and city of solitude shined! City of solitude is a good card not only against control, played it against burn and boros to force them to play at sorcery speed and against merfolk to cut their vials besides their counters.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
With a little sideboarding both can become favorable.
Elephant Grass is huge against RUG. The tempo loss kills them, and if you can stick a Choke at that point it's pretty much game. Carpet of Flowers, with CoP: Red or Energy Storm can also heavily tilt this.
Choke is also solid against Blade. Here Mirri's Guile is really important. I like to bring in additional threats in this match; 2x Chokes, Sigil of the Empty Thrones, Sacred Mesa. The key is to be the aggressor in this match.
@ lordofthepit:
About 3-4 posts ago I described how to combat the UW Stoneblade MU, but I'll go ahead and give you a cliffnotes:
SB Options:
City of Solitude: Shuts off their counters.
Choke: Preferrable as with exception to the random build that splashes a third color all their lands are islands.
Dovescape: Not the best option but shuts off their counters nonetheless.
Carpet of Flowers: Mana ramp.
Ground Seal: Disables Snapcaster Mage which is HIGHLY relevant. Also shuts off their Academy Ruins for the builds that run the Engineered Explosives-recursion combo. Also note that many UW Stoneblade builds sometimes run Surgical Extraction of which GS also answers.
Null Rod/Stony Silence: Shuts off EE, SDT, and all equipment.
Runed Halo/Nevermore: Shuts off Jace 2.0 which, beyond the equipment aggro, is really their only wincon.
For Wish lists: Bojuka Bog/Vexing Shusher
For GSZ lists: Vexing Shusher/Harmonic Sliver
Theres a couple of suggestions for your SB.
Against UW Stoneblade I would say its 60-40 in thier favor. All of their countersuite is relevant against, plus they have redundancy via Snapcaster. However, the MU is manageable. If you land even 1 Enchantress or SB card then usually you're well off. Of all our SB options I would say artifact hate/Choke are going to be the two most relevant.
I don't really play against Delver/RUG that much so I can't provide too many suggestions. GS/blue hate works the same as it does against Stoneblade only difference being that RUG has a faster clock. Don't be afraid to use your Oblivion Ring/Journey to Nowhere on those initial Delvers. Remember that RUG runs burn so although the initial 3-6 damage from a single Delver may not seem like much after taking several hits + burn (via Fire/Ice/)Lightning Bolt you'll die rather quickily. In terms of SB very little of what the average RUG runs will have much relevance against us. I've seen some builds SB extra counters (Spell Pierce) but beyond that nothing which majorly interacts with our deck. Of course there will be various players who metagame their SB but on average I rarely see much SBed in against us.
Overall for RUG you're gameplan in terms of SB is very similar to UW Stoneblade. GY hate (Ground Seal) with either Choke or City of Solitude being allstars. Remember, however, that RUG is a tempo deck (whereas UW Stoneblade is, imo, more aggro-control) so be aware that they put you on a much faster clock as Delver/Goyf swing in to put you within Burn range of death.
I hope this helped. If you want I can describe the SB options better but as I just posted a slightly better description previously I didn't want to repost the exact same thing.
Forlorn Egoist
Good morning, I'm new with this deck, I got all cards with a friend and I'm learning to play yet, but I have some doubts about some cards and which version is better:
At the moment I have:
The version with living wish (all cards)
The version with GSZ (all cards)
The version without both cards mentioned above
I do not have:
- Mirri's guile, so I'm playing with 2 Sylvan Library, this will hurt me a lot?
- Enlightned tutors, this will hurt me a lot?
My Meta is:
UW stoneblade
Affinity
Dredge
NicFit
Burn
Maverick
What would be the best version?
Thank you all.
Maybe not, but we're agree that MG > SL here.Quote:
Originally Posted by novatinhu
Maybe yes, even running 4 grooves. E. Tutor allows you to search for answers or enchantress effect at instant speed spending just W, which is unvaluable.Quote:
Originally Posted by novatinhu
Maindeck Worship locks out all those decks, save maybe planeswalkers. So if there's truly no tendrils / painter I'd pack Worship.Quote:
Originally Posted by novatinhu
Thx for the answers, i will try to buy some tutors and Worships and try it.
thx
Except Nic Fit with liliana. You do need confinement here which already shuts down all those decks...
Nic Fit's Pernicious Deed will poop on Enchantress.
Im an Nicfit player too, and i think this is my worst match? any advices in SB against it?Quote:
Originally Posted by guelahpapyrus
The Living Wish builds are too slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by novatinhu
2 or 3 GSZ is the best point to start in my opinion.Quote:
The version with GSZ (all cards)
The version without both cards mentioned above
Not a lot, no. Guile avoids Spellsnare and works under Confinement. You'll occasionally get to draw extra cards with Library. Most of the time they're not that functionally different.Quote:
I do not have:
- Mirri's guile, so I'm playing with 2 Sylvan Library, this will hurt me a lot?
No, Enlightened Tutor isn't very good in the MD, as it's card disadvantage. It's a decent SB strategy, but it's not necessary.Quote:
- Enlightned tutors, this will hurt me a lot?
You might want to MD either Karmic Justice or Aura of Silence. Both are useful against Deed; Aura is probably better against Stoneblade and Affinity.Quote:
My Meta is:
UW stoneblade
Affinity
Dredge
NicFit
Burn
Maverick
What would be the best version?
Thank you all.
I don't understand why E. Tutor is not necessary!! You play 8 Enchantress effects + Silver bullets, what better than 6 tutors to get all of them??
GSZ which isn't card disadvantage and curves into a turn 2 Enchantress, unlike E. Tutor.
but you only can tutor for enchantress effects and no silver bullets, for 3 mana and at sorcery speed...Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges
Well the sorcery speed is pretty irrelevant since you can't affect the board state at instant speed anyway.
And the silver bullet strategy is really only good against combo. And by good, in this instance, I really mean that it's one of the few ways to stand a chance against combo. It still might not be worth it.
guile is miles better than sylvan. sylvan is not a functional replacemnt for guile because of solitary. guile triggers during your upkeep, sylvan trigers during your draw phase. with solitary in play you can not use sylvan for the card filtration
Last Sunday I played in a local 19-man tourney with this list:
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
7 Forest
4 Plains
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Replenish
1 Moat
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Runed Halo
1 Exploration
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Words of War
SB:
2 Choke
2 Ground Seal
1 Lignify
1 Stony Silence
1 Aura of Silence
1 Nevermore
1 Runed Halo
1 Karmic Justice
1 Dovescape
1 Blood Moon
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Replenish
1 Story Circle
It's the exact same list I that I played another small tourny one month ago. I was late so I just grabed the deckbox with the exact same cards and give it a go, once more.
Last month I wasn't really successful, going 2-2, losing to stuff I think I wasn't supposed to lose, like Zoo. This time was different, I would only drop a game during the top 4 match, against AdN.
1st round vs. UW Stoneblade:
1st game I was playing very carefully and dropping baits but pretty much everything I played went through, the opponent didn't really have much game without its counters, Stoneforge and his sword alone is not a real threat agains Enchantress.
I sided in a couple of Chokes and one Aura of Silence, maybe Stony Silence, but I'm not sure.
Game two I mull to six, for a Savannah + Wild Growth hand. Of course he had the turn one Wasteland, but I was able to topdeck the right lands then again start playing carefully, but now my first tries get countered (a 1st turn accel. and one sterling grove) but pretty soon I get rolling with a couple of enchantress effects and start cluttering my board, gettin ready for the lockout dropping a Choke and getting it through, but unexpectedly I see Hibernation(!) by the end of that turn and I have to discard like 15 cards. For a few turns already my opponent was telepathing Surgical Extraction so even though I could fill the grave for a next turn Replenish, I made sure only to discard "irrelevant" stuff. Not surprisingly Choke got Extracted and he started his game, but as Enchantress does, in two turns I had all played out again and closed it with a Replenish, getting me up to 4 groves. Tutoring power and infinite protection means game. 2x0
2nd Round vs. Burn
I had no idea what I was facing, but a turn one Goblin Guide said it all. I had the confinement in my hand already and had to drop it even before playing an enchantress, since I was at 5 life already. I had to be careful for a couple of turns until I hit my second enchantress, thanks to Mirri's Guile I was able to find it and that was it, that confinement wasn't going anywhere.
Game two was pretty much the same thing, but I got the "confinement + 2 enchantress lock" easier this time, when still at 12 life. 2x0
3rd Round vs. Maverick
It was my first time playing against maverick, so while we were shuffling I ran through my mind what maverick could possibly have that screwed my game and didn't find any real threats, only minor stuff like Pridemage and such, so even though I didn't know how to play against it I thought that it was just another aggro deck, its hate doesn't really hurt us.
I don't remember much, but just like I though, the worst thing Maverick can do is to hit you with one or two Pridemages and not much more. I got some beats from Reliquarys and 4/4 lifelink germs, willingly, while setting up, but every card I played my opponent sank a little more in his seat. It wasn't long until I had protection from every direction. Both games were like that, only that the second game I had to deal with a couple of Gaddock Teegs and a Leyline of Sancticity(!), but O. Ring likes to exile creatures in this deck and Seal of Primordium takes care of Leyline so I don't risk decking myself and don't have to waste an attack phase to win. 2x0
4th round vs. UR Sneak Attack
I know what the deck is about but don't know the inside of it, what cards it plays etc but I know Enchantress loses to combo. I began playing confident that my winning streak was about to end.
First game I have a regular hand with an unsuspecting Seal of Primordium in it. We play regular stuff until he Intuitions for 3 Sneak Attacks during my EoT. He sends two to the bin, puts one in hand, draws for the turn, taps out to play the enchantment and passes! I was hoping for that but not really expecting it. Now I just play my Seal and destroy his Sneak Attack, big mistake of his. He wasn't expecting that neither so he didn't have any backup plan ready and while he was searching for something I could lock the game.
Second game again I see Leyline of Sancticity, times two now. Do they know I have Sigil? Luck strikes again and he gets stuck on two lands for a few turns, leaving me free to play whaterver I want and locking him with a Choke, then one Seal of Primordium and one Aura of Silence clear the table of Leylines and I WoW'd him to death. 2x0
I'm 4-0-0, 8-0 in games, it's been a long time that since I had such a good record. I ID'd round 5 and finish 1st for the top 8 (yes, 19 people, 5 rounds, top 8, don't ask, we like to play this game too much I guess). Let's see how much longer my luck will last. Or at least for how much longer BAD luck won't hit.
Top 8 vs. BG homebrew
The only thing I know is that he has Braids, Cabal Minion. WTF?!! How I play against that I don't know, let's see.
Game 1 I see Braids on turn two from a Dark Ritual with him already with a Putrid Imp in play. My upkeep I try to sac a Wild Growth but he reminds me that echantment is not one of the options, so there goes my forest AND the wild growth. I play safe and just don't drop anything, and since it was an early Braids he starts to eat himself out too. When he only has one land and the Braids I drop forest, play Grass and pass. He sacs the land, drops another and passes back. I pay the upkeep, sac the land and pass back still with grass in play. He finally sacs Braids and now we can start playing. I still stumble on finding the right lands, having only Sanctum and plains for a long time, but he also couldn't drop any more relevant threats, so I finally do my thing, lock the game out and that is it.
Game two I get some fast beats from a class of different creatures. I'm at 8 and he has 7 combat damage on the table. I drop an Argothian and pass. She gets Edicted, he beats for 7 and drops me to 1. On my turn I'm forced to drop a confinement with nothing else in play, but with enough cards in hand to sustain it while I drop some enchantress effects the following turns. 2x0
Top 4 vs. Storm combo
It's an impossible match against, and I know he knows how to pilot storm decks pretty well (he is a good friend, I play against him all the time), so now I am pretty sure I won't go further.
Game one he plays slow and I am able to drop a Halo on Tendrils, but since I couldn't find any other protection he goes off with Grapeshot + Ill-gotten Gains. Damn! Almost had that one! :P
Game two I drop enchantress presence turn two, he comboes turn two. Ad Nauseam while on 20 life is pretty good I hear. 0x2
Things to note:
The list has one Plains too much. Something else is getting in, be a forest, a dual or a fetchland, but that 4th plains is getting me into trouble.
Ghostly Prison is overkill and not necessary at all. The times of Goblins is long gone, now is the time of Reliquary and equiped things. I sided it out every single game, it doesn't even have sideboard value anymore. Many of you probably knew that for a while but I personally never realized it.
I'm playing with too much accelaration. I see myself cutting one or two, being it any combination of Exploration and/or Wild Growth and/or Utopia Sprawl. I see Growth being the better of the three and I sideboarded out one Sprawl very often and didn't miss it. What you guys think?
WoWar has to stay. Sometimes I even go an extra mile to kill with it (destroying opposing Leylines) while at the same time making sure I won't deck myself. I don't think any kill condition comes close to the WoWar/Sigil combination. Beat with 3 anges, burn for 10 GG. They work great.
Lignify is good, therefore Journey to Nowhere must also be. I'll be including one in the sideboard and probably one of either in the maindeck.
Guile is bonkers. Library is not even close. One mana >>>> two mana in this deck, oh, and of course, saves you under confinement.
I don't think that's too much acceleration at all. I actually run the same thing, but 2 Exploration instead of 1. The turn 2 Enchantress is so key that you don't want to go below the 8 Growth effects, and Exploration speeds you up at least 2 turns every game you drop it, which is super relevant in many match-ups.
On the topic of the turn 2 Enchantress, have you tested GSZ?