[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

Some questions for arianrhod about thune fit:

-Have you ever been disappointed by the lack of gsz'able 4-drops?
-Describe a bit more what varolz has done for you.
-How useful has nether void been? (I think you talked about this before but I can't find where you did)
-What matchups is are the nevermores in your side for?
-Do you think I would be a good idea to have show and tell hate in the side? Has humility worked there in the past? Are there other matchups humility is good in?
-How do you beat omnitell (in general)?

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-) Yes, frequently, across multiple versions. The best one for Thune is probably Loxodon Hierarch, and that should tell you something. I mean, he's okay, but he's nowhere near on the same power level as a lot of the other creatures we run.

-) Varolz enables a couple things.
->) Varolz is a 0-cost sac outlet. The only other viable GSZable sac outlet is Starved Rusalka, which has a mana cost of G to activate. What this means is that you can assemble a boardstate of Varolz + Finks + Thune, and win on the spot (infinite life, infinite board p/t).
->) Varolz has combat stats and enables multiple lines of play, whereas Rusalka does not. In GBW, you usually need some sort of Green Sunnable sac outlet, and Varolz is way better than Rusalka for 1 more mana.
->) Varolz also lets you play "Protect the Queen" with Sigarda (or Thrun, but Sigarda is better). You can scavenge used up dorks onto her, and make her absolutely terrifying. A 5/5 hexproof flyer is good. An 8/8 hexproof flyer is lethal, even through annoyances like Batterskull. If you can go deep with Sigarda, then it's usually correct to do so. She'll win you most games by herself, especially as you bulk her up. Even if they somehow find a way to deal with her, realistically you shouldn't be expending more resources during this time, which means you'll have a grip for post-sweep to unleash. You're just recycling resources that you already used earlier in the game. It doesn't seem like paying 1G to give Sigarda a +1/+1 counter from a Sakura-Tribe/Sylvan Ranger/etc is worth it, I know -- but when you actually do it in a real-game situation, it's a lot more backbreaking than it sounds on paper.
->) Varolz can play "protect the varolz" against a lot of decks, like Esperblade for example. He has built-in Supreme Verdict protection, and can't die in most combats as long as you have things to regenerate him.

-) Nether Void is the stone nuts if you can afford one. Unlike Trinisphere (which is still a savage beating), Void adds on to the mana cost of any spell. So, if they want to Brainstorm, their Brainstorm now costs 3U. Cunning Wish costs 5U. True-Name costs 4UU (not that I recommend bringing it in vs True-Name decks). And so forth. Here's why it's better than Trinisphere despite costing more (monetarily and manawise)

->) Can't be Abrupt Decayed. This is HUGE, since most ANT and TES decks run Decays in their board to deal with problematic permanents.
->) Makes anti-hate cost more. Congratulations, TES, you can Chain of Vapor my Nether Void, for the low, low cost of 3U. Good luck with that.
->) Completely kills combo decks stone-dead. Dark Ritual makes negative mana. A Thresholded Cabal Ritual is only break-even. Sneak attack costs 7? Show and Tell costs 6? All of their cantrips and setup spells cost a million mana, too? They have to choose between Force of Will and Pondering? Sweet deal. In the case of Trinisphere, Show and Tell costs the same. Void is more flexible.
->) Useful against -any- combo deck. This is a problem that combo hate tends to have. It's good vs two or three decks, maybe, but shit vs two or three more. Void is all-purpose douchebaggery.

I can't actually recommend Nether Void highly enough.

-) Nevermores are slightly questionable. They're another "generalist" piece of hate that's good against literal anything, but they're in decay range, and there's probably better things they could (should) be. I remember the last time I played the deck I had a specific thought in mind for them, but now I can't even remember what it was. Nevermore is an okay card, but it suffers from not being a 2/2, and from costing 3.

-) Sneak and Show hate has worked before, including and especially Humility. Humility is TOTAL scorched-earth tactics, since we completely hate to see that card too -- but our deck is full of castable 1/1s, whereas their deck is full of uncastable 1/1s. It's a big difference. If you need to kold Sneak and Show, Humility is a good slot to invest in. Sneak is still vulnerable to most of our other hate, too, but sometimes Sneak needs that extra-special touch to really push it over the edge in our favor. Humility accomplishes that. It might be winnable, ish, without Humility -- but with Humility I would say the matchup is favored for us.

-) Omni is a gigantic slut. In Thune, you get to at least run hateful bears, though, which is one of the better ways of attacking the deck. Gaddock Teeg + a Nevermore on Show and Tell, for example, basically locks the deck out. Canonist is nuts against them, as is Nether Void. If they don't open with Leyline of Sanctity, you can Cranial Extraction them. All of that being said, though, Omni is probably the biggest chink in Thune's combo armor (at least, compared to universal shitfests like Belcher or TES godhands). You're going to have to get lucky here, realistically.

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Originally Posted by kavaki

I also requested access to the document.

So I was talking with one of my friends who asked if you could run this with 0 dual lands. I know he has fetches and Groves, he just doesnt have the ABU's. I told him that it may be possible, but I wanted to see here. Im not advocating budget, but its also something I have wondered. I know its stupid, but it has struck me as an interesting thought from time to time.

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It's possible. Throw a couple extra Kitchen Finks and/or another Thragtusk in his list, and it'll work out alright, at least until he starts winning enough store credit to get a few duals. Realistically you only need like 2 Bayou, 1 Taiga, and 1 Badlands to play Punishing -- anything more than that is more luxury than mandate, I think. I would consider 1 Bayou absolutely crucial, if he can possibly get it. t1 fetch Bayou into Therapy or Explorer is a very important line. You can safely fill with Overgrown Tombs for the rest of the "Bayous," I think, though.

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

Man, did anyone see Lotus Cobra and get hard thinking about it + Veteran Explorer shenanigans?

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Back about two years ago, it was in some of my very very first sketches of Nic Fit. It proved to be win-more, so I cut it, but I do wonder sometimes if there isn't like a Nic Fit version of 12post / Eldrazi Green that could be made with it. Cobra + Explorer gives you a metric shitfuck of mana.

Example, a realistic opener without Tower or multiple Vets:

t1 land, Therapy
t2 land, Cobra
t3 land, Explorer, flashback (tap 3 lands, 2 floating from landfall, then tap 2 more from Explorer lands) yields 7 mana on turn 3. Zenith for Primeval, use floating mana to play Top + spin Top? Eh? Eh? Eh?

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Originally Posted by MasterHerC

i am currently trying out a gaze of granite as i am still waiting for my toxic deluge to arrive (also have massacre in board, there is a lot of d'n't here as well as 2-3 deadguys)
seems pretty good even though the double black is kinda cloggy sometimes.
it feels like wishing for pernicious deed.

i'm not sure about reverent silence anymore. i can't remember a single game i wished for it so i am thinking about experimentally dropping it for the deluge.
maybe 2 "all-creatures-get-minus"-sweepers can do well, especially if u can cast one of it for free (oder 1 if a thalia is up).

i also received the suggestion to play a singleton living wish, a tabernacle and a bog ... sounded interesting but i don't think it will (nic)fit very well.
any1 having some experiences with this or something similar?

we have a legacy regional next sunday, but i'm still not sure if i can be in attendance, we'll see.




checked my shops, only availabe foil windswept heath is english nm for about ~128$, playset is around 500 but not a single german heath. ^_o

if there is a chance that we'll meet on a specific international tournament, i can check for some foil/german goodies for you and maybe bring them with me. :D

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I've thought about the whole "wish for a wish" bullshit before, but I just can't justify spending that much mana to get a utility land -- and the utility land isn't even necessarily that great for Scape. Tabernacle is much better in GBW versions, because those colors care more about the sac outlet / having more control in the matchup.

And that would be freaking sweet. I don't really fly, though, so it'd probably have to be like for the next legacy Grand Prix here or something similar. I'm terrified of flying :X 128 is still pretty good for a packfoil nm Heath, though -- they're like 150-160 over here last I checked.

Sorry for the noobish question, but can someone pierce cabal therapy with explorer effect on the stack? I think they can, but i'm not sure...

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Originally Posted by Nithkar

Sorry for the noobish question, but can someone pierce cabal therapy with explorer effect on the stack? I think they can, but i'm not sure...

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They can, in fact. It doesn't come up very often, but this is a thing that can happen to you.

I would like to add Consecrated Sphinx to the blue six-drops, it is absolute nuts once it hits the field and I have not lost many games after I drew some extra cards from it. Next Saturday I will have a local tournament again. I'm going to test a controlish BUGfit deck with a True-Name Nemesis as one-off, I'm curious how it will perform. Will keep you posted.

I don't play PodFit, but here are some creature ideas for you kiddies to knock around. My apologies if they've been covered and/or are lackluster:

1CMC
Doomed Traveler

2CMC
Abyssal Gatekeeper
Nest Invader

3CMC
Flickerwisp
Blade Splicer
Sin Collector

4CMC
Ranger of Eos
Solemn Simulacrum
Mindslicer (one of my favorite cards ever)

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Originally Posted by hymntotourcock

I don't play PodFit, but here are some creature ideas for you kiddies to knock around. My apologies if they've been covered and/or are lackluster:

1CMC
Doomed Traveler

2CMC
Abyssal Gatekeeper
Nest Invader

3CMC
Flickerwisp
Blade Splicer
Sin Collector

4CMC
Ranger of Eos
Solemn Simulacrum
Mindslicer (one of my favorite cards ever)

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Abyssal Gatekeeper is fuckin spicy. I like it.

Added Gatekeeper, Nest Invader, Flickerwisp, and Blade Splicer. Had the others already.

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Originally Posted by Fizzeler

I can help with this, but it depends heavily on what you want the pod deck to do, like a Glittering Wish Pod list is not going to be similar to Rec-Pod list or "combo" pod list despite all list being GWB

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Here's my BGw POD list... it has been working pretty well

Creatures [23]
CMC 1
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman

CMC 2
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze

CMC 3
2 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Bone Shredder

CMC 4
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
2 Restoration Angel

CMC 5
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Shriekmaw

CMC 6
1 Grave Titan

Engine [8]
3 Birthing Pod
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Recurring Nightmare

Control [7]
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy

Artifacts [2]
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Lands [21]
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyraxian Tower

this is my sideboard for now, will test it at the next possible stop (maybe sunday)
scapewish, obviously (or of course? ... :D )

3x Carpet of Flowers
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Slaughter Games
1x Scapeshift
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Reanimate
1x Innocent Blood
1x Thoughtseize
1x Pyroclasm
1x Massacre
1x Gaze of Granite
1x Toxic Deluge (if it will arrive in time), else 1x flexslot, but don't think Reverent Silence will fit in it this time.

i'm kinda excited if i will miss silence (as i never really missed it all the time)
have that strange feeling that having a bunch of those sweepers is really good in my local format, now that a bunch of nemesis-decks joined the scene to the already popular d'n'ts here.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I've thought about the whole "wish for a wish" bullshit before, but I just can't justify spending that much mana to get a utility land -- and the utility land isn't even necessarily that great for Scape. Tabernacle is much better in GBW versions, because those colors care more about the sac outlet / having more control in the matchup.

And that would be freaking sweet. I don't really fly, though, so it'd probably have to be like for the next legacy Grand Prix here or something similar. I'm terrified of flying :X 128 is still pretty good for a packfoil nm Heath, though -- they're like 150-160 over here last I checked.

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ya, i think that it's a waste of space u need for better things.

oh i definitely plan to attend a us-gp at least once in a lifetime. time will ... show and tell ... when and where. :D
or maybe a longer holiday trip with some scg-visits. ^^
but i'll let you know when it is possible for me.

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Originally Posted by kavaki

I also requested access to the document.

So I was talking with one of my friends who asked if you could run this with 0 dual lands. I know he has fetches and Groves, he just doesnt have the ABU's. I told him that it may be possible, but I wanted to see here. Im not advocating budget, but its also something I have wondered. I know its stupid, but it has struck me as an interesting thought from time to time.

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i did it.
had only 2 taigas so i upped each basic land by 1 and filled with stomping grounds, blood crypts and overgrown tombs.
whoppa selfdestruct-style ... but it worked.
u are just turning some clocks down a turn if u need to shock but it's easier to pay 2 life than a difference of ~45 or more $ per dual.

Some more Pod candidates:

Meddling Mage
Peacekeeper
Triskellion (there is an obscure infinite combo with Reveillark, Phantasmal Image and Triskellion)
Yosei
Corpse Connoisseur (if you play Rector + Nightmare and want to pod directly from 4 to 6 or as a pseudo tutor)

p.s. @Arianrhod maybe enable comments in the gdoc, so we can leave suggestions there instead of polluting this thread.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Abyssal Gatekeeper is fuckin spicy. I like it.

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Heck yeah it is, that card's an old gem from when I played Pauper Pestilence :D

Here are some more neato Pod dudes:

2
Bloodghast

3
Necroplasm
Necrotic Sliver (ehh)
Phyrexian Rager
Geralf's Messenger

5
Phyrexian Delver
Karmic Guide

6
Duplicant
Kokusho

7
Hornet Queen

I don't mean to spam the board, but with all this talk of MB combo hate, I edited my PFit list which I plan to bring this to a local legacy event in about 2 weeks. I'd like to iron it out before then.
The main changes are adding 2 Slaughter Games to MB and Toxic Deluge to the SB. I figure it can act as a 4th Deed, and I've been considering adding a second. There is much combo going on at my lgs but not so much that I'm able to rule out rogue aggro decks. These Storm pricks often make me wish I was playing Scapeshift.
I have 61 cards MB, the 61st being Thoughtseize to supplement the combo-interference. 1 black mana shouldn't throw my curve enough to make a difference.

2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Slaughter Games

SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

Edit: I forgot my friggin Carpets.

Arianrhod it seems you forgot Karmic Guide as a 5 drop, I tested it and ran it at the GP decent and can let you advance the board quickly

Also Voice Of Resurgence in 2, it was okay when I tried it good vs other fair decks

My current Junk list:
4 Marsh Flats
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Acidic Slime
2 Swamp
1 Sun Titan
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gavony Township
1 Karakas
2 Fauna Shaman
4 Birthing Pod
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Grave Titan
2 Eternal Witness
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Restoration Angel
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Plains
1 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Bayou
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Forest
1 Thragtusk

Sideboard
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Extirpate
4 Thoughtseize
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Angel of Despair
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Garruk Relentless

In other news Township is insane

Grave Titan has been feeling very underwhelming compared to Sun Titan, I want to test another 6 Drop that isn't a titan and am between Yosei and Wurmcoil

So after playing a few games with this list here I came to some conclusions. Bear in mind that I love me some birthing pod decks. I played a lot of it in standard and would play kik pod in modern if I had the cards to do so.

I feel like this deck runs into a lot of the same issues most pod decks have, unless there is a resolved pod on the field it just becomes a mass of creatures that are kind of awkward to draw when drawn in the wrong situations. Part of me really wants to make this a 4 or 5 color deck and run things like Restoration Angel, Deceiver Exarch, and Zealous Conscripts. One of the things that I feel could be improved about this list is the ability to go up the chain in a single turn. I understand that adding another color or two means fixing the mana base with more duals which then makes our Veteran Explorers weaker. I might be an avenue to explore however. Possibly substituting some of the Deathrite Shamans with Noble Hierarchs or Birds of Paradise could be an path worth examining.

The other minor issue I had with the deck was the one of Abrupt Decay. I know its a strong card but it seems that it might be better suited as a fourth Brainstorm a third Pernicious Deed, or even possibly a fourth Birthing Pod for a better chance of getting it in the opener. Brainstorm is kind of insane in this deck due to the amount of shuffle effects that are available. The ability to put creatures back into the deck that you might have drawn and then pod into them is bonkers for lack of a better term.

These are just a few of my thoughts about this list in particular. I will say this though, the deck is super fun to play and I recommend picking it up and giving it a whirl.

[EDIT]: I also forgot to mention about the possible addition of Phyrexian Metamorph in either the Main or the side board.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

-) Yes, frequently, across multiple versions. The best one for Thune is probably Loxodon Hierarch, and that should tell you something. I mean, he's okay, but he's nowhere near on the same power level as a lot of the other creatures we run.

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Hmm, yeah. Testing nylea maybe?

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->) Varolz is a 0-cost sac outlet. The only other viable GSZable sac outlet is Starved Rusalka, which has a mana cost of G to activate. What this means is that you can assemble a boardstate of Varolz + Finks + Thune, and win on the spot (infinite life, infinite board p/t).

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I didn't notice that combo. However, a 3-card combo with 2 1-ofs and a 2-of is hard to assemble, even with 6 tutors.

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In GBW, you usually need some sort of Green Sunnable sac outlet

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I disagree. 6 sac outlets is generally enough, in addition to chump blocking vs. aggro. Varolz is 4 mana, which generally means you'll have to wait until turn 4 to sac explorer if you have just that and green sun. It's really not worth it. I'd much rather just gsz for dryad arbor if I really needed the ramp (which, by the way, has been awesome for me).

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->) Varolz also lets you play "Protect the Queen" with Sigarda (or Thrun, but Sigarda is better). You can scavenge used up dorks onto her, and make her absolutely terrifying. A 5/5 hexproof flyer is good. An 8/8 hexproof flyer is lethal, even through annoyances like Batterskull. If you can go deep with Sigarda, then it's usually correct to do so. She'll win you most games by herself, especially as you bulk her up. Even if they somehow find a way to deal with her, realistically you shouldn't be expending more resources during this time, which means you'll have a grip for post-sweep to unleash. You're just recycling resources that you already used earlier in the game. It doesn't seem like paying 1G to give Sigarda a +1/+1 counter from a Sakura-Tribe/Sylvan Ranger/etc is worth it, I know -- but when you actually do it in a real-game situation, it's a lot more backbreaking than it sounds on paper.

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I have actually done this, and it's good but usually I lack creatures in my yard. Usually there's like an explorer or an arbor but giving sigarda +1/+1 is not really worth putting varolz in your deck.

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->) Varolz can play "protect the varolz" against a lot of decks, like Esperblade for example. He has built-in Supreme Verdict protection, and can't die in most combats as long as you have things to regenerate him.

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That's cool but what does he do just by himself?

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-) Nether Void is the stone nuts if you can afford one. Unlike Trinisphere (which is still a savage beating), Void adds on to the mana cost of any spell. So, if they want to Brainstorm, their Brainstorm now costs 3U. Cunning Wish costs 5U. True-Name costs 4UU (not that I recommend bringing it in vs True-Name decks). And so forth. Here's why it's better than Trinisphere despite costing more (monetarily and manawise)

->) Can't be Abrupt Decayed. This is HUGE, since most ANT and TES decks run Decays in their board to deal with problematic permanents.
->) Makes anti-hate cost more. Congratulations, TES, you can Chain of Vapor my Nether Void, for the low, low cost of 3U. Good luck with that.
->) Completely kills combo decks stone-dead. Dark Ritual makes negative mana. A Thresholded Cabal Ritual is only break-even. Sneak attack costs 7? Show and Tell costs 6? All of their cantrips and setup spells cost a million mana, too? They have to choose between Force of Will and Pondering? Sweet deal. In the case of Trinisphere, Show and Tell costs the same. Void is more flexible.
->) Useful against -any- combo deck. This is a problem that combo hate tends to have. It's good vs two or three decks, maybe, but shit vs two or three more. Void is all-purpose douchebaggery.

I can't actually recommend Nether Void highly enough.

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The problem I have is against TES you need other disruption for it to work because it's not coming down before t3 unless you get a tower draw.

I'll respond to other stuff later.

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

The problem I have is against TES you need other disruption for it to work because it's not coming down before t3 unless you get a tower draw.

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This is the universal TES problem. Surviving to 4 mana is our main goal (unless running Trinisphere). For JundFit, Slaughter Games is our de facto Nether Void. That's our silver bullet and in this application I feel it's even stronger than Void. Because you don't have access to red mana Void is probably the next best thing (or Cranial Extraction/Memoricide). Which is a hilarious thing to consider because Games is ~$1 and Void is ~$150.

I did some testing against ANT last night and I still don't know how to mulligan effectively against storm. Opening up with Carpet/REB is not enough as they don't necessarily need blue spells to win. In fact my roommate combo'd a few times with Rituals/LED/Infernal Tutor. Monoblack storm?
Another thing I noticed was turn 1 SDT being awesome, especially when playing around Duress. I was able to keep my hate cards floating around the top 3 of my library to grab at a moment's notice. This is niche application but a valid point no less. Also if they have a turn 1 win you're fucked regardless but that isn't exactly breaking news.
Sadistic Sacrament could also be a card to consider. It's BBB but it has the potential to grab every combo piece at once and they usually only play 1 of each.


I've been thinking about Pod more, is Lodestone Golem viable? I can easily imagine a MUD-flavored Pod prototype doing ugly things. There's already a heft of artifact creatures as well.
Turn 1 Explorer
Turn 2 Phyrexian Tower -> Lodestone?

It sure looks cute.

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Originally Posted by hymntotourcock

I don't mean to spam the board, but with all this talk of MB combo hate, I edited my PFit list which I plan to bring this to a local legacy event in about 2 weeks. I'd like to iron it out before then.
The main changes are adding 2 Slaughter Games to MB and Toxic Deluge to the SB. I figure it can act as a 4th Deed, and I've been considering adding a second. There is much combo going on at my lgs but not so much that I'm able to rule out rogue aggro decks. These Storm pricks often make me wish I was playing Scapeshift.
I have 61 cards MB, the 61st being Thoughtseize to supplement the combo-interference. 1 black mana shouldn't throw my curve enough to make a difference.

2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Slaughter Games

SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

Edit: I forgot my friggin Carpets.

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I'm counting 62 cards MD ! I'm unsure you really want Slaughter MD. This is not scape (1 less land 4 less creature which provide lands on ETB or ETG) and I'm afraid you are greedy about the average CMC going up...
To fight TES -> Chalice is one of your best shots.

Hi Folks,

I just read the past few pages (hum, 50... Or so), and I really had a good feeling with this deck, even with the lack of blue. Nic Fit seems to be a good alternative to my heart-deck, Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils :)

Back in the business :
Scapeshift and Valakut couple is cool, it looks like a very solid kill condition.
Green Sun Zenith is a fantastic card, I love to tutor my library (ok, just my green creatures).
After some goldfish, Primeval Titan is huge. It end the game very quickly by searching for Valakut and mountains.

Enough of paroles, here is my list (not really mine, but eh, who care :)

//Artifact (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top

//Creature (14)
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wood Elves

//Enchantment (3)
3 Pernicious Deed

//Sorcery (16)
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift

//Land (24)
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Verdant Catacombs

SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Rakdos's Return
SB: 1 Reanimate
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Reverent Silence
SB: 1 Scapeshift
SB: 1 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

Some questions and remarques about the deck that didn't find answer in the first/last few pages.

I feel a lack of shuffle effect. Does any body know how to fulfill this gap ?
Second, Huntmaster of the Fells and me aren't in good feelings. I don't know why.
Is Huntmaster a key-card for Nic Fit ? When and how to play it at its maximum efficiency.


For now, I play the deck like this :
First goal is to resolve Veteran Explorer or let say, put lands into the field.
Second is to mess opponent board/strategy with either GSZ into Scavenging Ooze, Pernicious Deed or BWinshing into focused answer.
Third (the killing phase) GSZ into Primeval Titan or Scapeshifting into Valakut.

Am I on the good way or is there something I am missing ?


PS: This threat is good, the primer is well writted and tournaments reports are detailed.
PS2 : My English isn't that good, please apologize misspelling and wrong sentences :))

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hymntotourcock

This is the universal TES problem. Surviving to 4 mana is our main goal (unless running Trinisphere). For JundFit, Slaughter Games is our de facto Nether Void. That's our silver bullet and in this application I feel it's even stronger than Void. Because you don't have access to red mana Void is probably the next best thing (or Cranial Extraction/Memoricide). Which is a hilarious thing to consider because Games is ~$1 and Void is ~$150.

I did some testing against ANT last night and I still don't know how to mulligan effectively against storm. Opening up with Carpet/REB is not enough as they don't necessarily need blue spells to win. In fact my roommate combo'd a few times with Rituals/LED/Infernal Tutor. Monoblack storm?
Another thing I noticed was turn 1 SDT being awesome, especially when playing around Duress. I was able to keep my hate cards floating around the top 3 of my library to grab at a moment's notice. This is niche application but a valid point no less. Also if they have a turn 1 win you're fucked regardless but that isn't exactly breaking news.
Sadistic Sacrament could also be a card to consider. It's BBB but it has the potential to grab every combo piece at once and they usually only play 1 of each.


I've been thinking about Pod more, is Lodestone Golem viable? I can easily imagine a MUD-flavored Pod prototype doing ugly things. There's already a heft of artifact creatures as well.
Turn 1 Explorer
Turn 2 Phyrexian Tower -> Lodestone?

It sure looks cute.

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My meta is "somehow" infested with ANT. Slower than TES, but more resilient.
So, I guess I can give you some useful tips:

Game 1 =
-> your first zenith should always be for "Ooze". MVP against ANT. Be sure to take cantrips/mana accel from their yard. By doing so, you are crushing hard their PIF plan.
-> don't accelerate into flashback therapy on Veteran if it is not to put a good clock on them and/or having seen their hand. Most list plays at least 2 basics (even 3).
-> Discards should target IT/DR/CR/LED depends of the board and their hand (Also BW depends on the ANT build).

They cannot kill "Ooze" first game. So cross fingers...

Game 2 = Same plan. Board in Surgical Ex, REB, TS, Slaughter. Take out Titan, Thrun, Pernicious deed (keep 2 in if BW build or if you saw ETW and side out the whole PF engine), AD, 1 Kessig and 2 PF.

They will likely have some AD/Pyro for Ooze so drop it wisely. Cross finger again.
Thragtusk is also good against chain of vapor as it will leave a token behind (don't forget it !)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markkugel

Hi Folks,

Some questions and remarques about the deck that didn't find answer in the first/last few pages.

I feel a lack of shuffle effect. Does any body know how to fulfill this gap ?
Second, Huntmaster of the Fells and me aren't in good feelings. I don't know why.
Is Huntmaster a key-card for Nic Fit ? When and how to play it at its maximum efficiency.


For now, I play the deck like this :
First goal is to resolve Veteran Explorer or let say, put lands into the field.
Second is to mess opponent board/strategy with either GSZ into Scavenging Ooze, Pernicious Deed or BWinshing into focused answer.
Third (the killing phase) GSZ into Primeval Titan or Scapeshifting into Valakut.

Am I no the good way or is there something I am missing ?

---

1) Cut a basic mountain add a wooded foothills. Add a Sakura tribe-elder and go to 61 cards MD. So you'll have 2 more ways to shuffle the library.
2) I'm also playing with a split 2 Huntmaster/ 1 ooze. Personal preference/meta choice, I guess. Mine is infested with combo and Ooze is an ALL STAR.
3) Huntmaster is a key card in Nic Fit. It can win games on its own. Furthermore, don't forget we are a very control deck and gaining/tanking for a few more turns are necessary to resolve our kill. Huntmaster provides a token (2 bodies), some life and could be a huge beat if your opponent has an empty hand/board which is bound to happen if you pernicious deed first and land it thereafter :D
To sum-up he is a bit like our "little" Jace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

1) Cut a basic mountain add a wooded foothills. Add a Sakura tribe-elder and go to 61 cards MD. So you'll have 2 more ways to shuffle the library.
2) I'm also playing with a split 2 Huntmaster/ 1 ooze. Personal preference/meta choice, I guess. Mine is infested with combo and Ooze is an ALL STAR.
3) Huntmaster is a key card in Nic Fit. It can win games on its own. Furthermore, don't forget we are a very control deck and gaining/tanking for a few more turns are necessary to resolve our kill. Huntmaster provides a token (2 bodies), some life and could be a huge beat if your opponent has an empty hand/board which is bound to happen if you pernicious deed first and land it thereafter :D
To sum-up he is a bit like our "little" Jace.

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All-in-all, I think you need at least 4 gaining life/strong CIP effect creatures in Scapeshift (2 Hunt, 2 thragt).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

-) Nevermores are slightly questionable. They're another "generalist" piece of hate that's good against literal anything, but they're in decay range, and there's probably better things they could (should) be. I remember the last time I played the deck I had a specific thought in mind for them, but now I can't even remember what it was. Nevermore is an okay card, but it suffers from not being a 2/2, and from costing 3.

-) Sneak and Show hate has worked before, including and especially Humility. Humility is TOTAL scorched-earth tactics, since we completely hate to see that card too -- but our deck is full of castable 1/1s, whereas their deck is full of uncastable 1/1s. It's a big difference. If you need to kold Sneak and Show, Humility is a good slot to invest in. Sneak is still vulnerable to most of our other hate, too, but sometimes Sneak needs that extra-special touch to really push it over the edge in our favor. Humility accomplishes that. It might be winnable, ish, without Humility -- but with Humility I would say the matchup is favored for us.

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Wow, awesome! Favorable matchups against both the top decks?

As I mentioned before, I have 2 idyllic tutors in my current sideboard. Theoretically they can be useful against anything, getting deed vs. aggro, recurring nightmare vs control, nether void vs. storm (and I guess other combo too?) and humility vs. sneak and show. In practice, I've never really played them too much.

Quote:

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-) Omni is a gigantic slut. In Thune, you get to at least run hateful bears, though, which is one of the better ways of attacking the deck. Gaddock Teeg + a Nevermore on Show and Tell, for example, basically locks the deck out. Canonist is nuts against them, as is Nether Void. If they don't open with Leyline of Sanctity, you can Cranial Extraction them. All of that being said, though, Omni is probably the biggest chink in Thune's combo armor (at least, compared to universal shitfests like Belcher or TES godhands). You're going to have to get lucky here, realistically.

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...and 12post, as usual. Yeah, that's really too bad. I actually cut my sideboard canonists and nevermores for other things, so that just makes it worse :|

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hymntotourcock

This is the universal TES problem. Surviving to 4 mana is our main goal (unless running Trinisphere). For JundFit, Slaughter Games is our de facto Nether Void. That's our silver bullet and in this application I feel it's even stronger than Void. Because you don't have access to red mana Void is probably the next best thing (or Cranial Extraction/Memoricide). Which is a hilarious thing to consider because Games is ~$1 and Void is ~$150.

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Yeah. I guess I'll just have to rely on thoughtseize + therapy + teeg + mindbreak trap.

Speaking of that, is mindbreak trap any good? Or should I just use canonist?

Quote:

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Sadistic Sacrament could also be a card to consider. It's BBB but it has the potential to grab every combo piece at once and they usually only play 1 of each.

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BBB is the problem. I don't see it coming out t2 barring a tower.

Quote:

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I've been thinking about Pod more, is Lodestone Golem viable? I can easily imagine a MUD-flavored Pod prototype doing ugly things. There's already a heft of artifact creatures as well.
Turn 1 Explorer
Turn 2 Phyrexian Tower -> Lodestone?

It sure looks cute.

---

Awesome! That's really cool too because you can pod through a lodestone. What do other people think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hymntotourcock

I've been thinking about Pod more, is Lodestone Golem viable? I can easily imagine a MUD-flavored Pod prototype doing ugly things. There's already a heft of artifact creatures as well.
Turn 1 Explorer
Turn 2 Phyrexian Tower -> Lodestone?

It sure looks cute.

---

Aren't Lodestone and Veteran anti-synergistic? I mean, what's the point of making their stuff cost one more if you are giving them two mana? I think it would have to be a one sided explorer to mater against low cc decks. Unless you are planing to use it to manage the backfire of a triggered explorer, against the decks that can use the mana we give them better than us. Besides that, i don't think that he will be of such impact when on a pod chain. Ok, if we manage to make it turn 2 or tree with Vet, he's sure excellent. But if in a part of a pod chain, he would seldom come off earlier the turn five. By then, i'm not sure it will impact the game meaningfully. But i say that with just little experience on pod builds, so i might be absolutely wrong :tongue:.

- EDIT- I don't know why, but i could swear Lodestone had 5cc, ahahahah. Being 4cc, my arguments lose a bit of consistency. But i would generally maintain my point.

If you add 3spheres, that might change :P

hymn inspired me to build a mud "fit" list but I'm not going to post it just yet. (This is your first official warning.)

Here's my current thune fit list

1 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Birthing Pod
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Academy Rector
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Sun Titan
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Restoration Angel
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sylvan Ranger
2 Spike Feeder
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Necroplasm
1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Harmonic Sliver
SB: 2 Idyllic Tutor
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap

So call me insane, but I am testing Whip Of Erebos in my pod list, actually has quite a bit of synergy with the rest of the deck currently testing it over Recurring Nightmare, but I can see them being hard to handle in tandem with one another rather than one or the other

Also Grave Titan is staying after he single handily helped me crush a Jund opponent

So I played a local tournament yesterday with my BUGfit list. The meta was very strange, a lot of local pet decks and new players to the format (out of 22 players, one brought a deck from the DtB section). It was a bit of a rough day, but in the end I managed a decent 3-1-2, finishing on the 6th place. I decided not to test a True-Name Nemesis, but instead play another Far/Away, leading to this list:

Mainboard
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Consecrated Sphinx
4 Brainstorm
4 Negate
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Counterspell
2 Far / Away
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard:
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Golgari Charm
2 Innocent Blood
2 Extirpate
2 Hydroblast

Round 1: Aggro Elves 1-1
A aggro elves deck that played GSZ and a lot of mana elves (priest, archdruid) to put Progenitus or Craterhoof into play, but it was also capable of killing you with lords and little elves. Played wasteland and some fancy stuff.
G1: Was a close game, I managed to get a deed in play when he bashed me with some elves. He just kept on ramping after my first deed and when I was pretty much stable at 9 life I face a Progenitus with back up elves… I made a few small mistakes here I think that made sure I lost, otherwise I could’ve possibly made it.
G2: I think Deed + Jace got me there in the long run. However, he made a calculation error since he could’ve killed me with a craterhoof but instead tried to kill me with forestwalked lords, which I Decayed and was then able to block and kill him. I boarded in FoWs, but this was clearly a mistake. I was just a bit afraid of tapping out when has a shit load of mana with cradle and priest just to topdeck a GSZ for an instant kill or Progenitus.
G3: Both games took long and we had only a few minutes for this round. He couldn’t kill me in time while I was trying to disrupt him. I don’t know if I would have won the round with plenty of time, since it was pretty difficult to keep up with all the elves. On paper it looks favorable, but I was just glad I didn’t lost. I never felt in control here.
0-0-1

Round 2: BW good stuff 1-1
Hymn, Stoneforge mystic, Dark confident, Vindicate, Wasteland, Lingering Souls etc. Difficult match up since the souls + equipments are hard to deal with outside pernicious deed.
R1: I get destroyed by double hymn. After I cleared the board and was about to land a Jace he hymned me and left me without cards. Didn’t get any action afterwards.
R2: I had control and he got Jaced.
R3: Not much time left. I had to think a bit and disrupted him as much as I could. He couldn’t kill me before time ran out and I hadn’t full control by then either. No clue who would’ve won.
0-0-2

Round 3: Mono black suicide 0-2
Facing my own deck that I lend to a friend! Not easy due to a lot of discard and sacrifice effects, but Sigarda shines here.
R1: Lost due to a mulligan to 4
R2: He had Tombstalker, I got Sigarda. From there it was pretty equal, until he found the newly added Sword of Fire and Ice with his Top. I drew nothing to deal with the big stalker and lost to the 7/7 flyer with a big sword.
0-1-2

Round 4: Casual mill 2-0
This was embarrassing, some weird mill deck with hardly any disruption (just some bounce) and things like memory sluice, thought scour, glimpse and mind funeral. My creatures resolved and killed him before he could mill me in both rounds.
1-1-2

Round 5: BG pox 2-0
G1: We start by killing some deathrite shamans and a veteran. Cabal Therapy removes his threats and he is left with removal. However, I drew nothing but lands so he had only useless cards. He resolved a Lily that slowly got to 7, after which I topdecked a Decay and killed it. He had no pressure whatsoever and after another land I drew Karn which sealed the game. Innocent blood is a poor card when your opponent is only playing lands and planeswalkers.
G2: I got an early Jace I think, which gained me a lot of card advantage. It led to a GSZ for Sigarda and from there I easily won the game.
2-1-2

Round 6: BUG control 2-1
Another friend of mine. Lots of counters, planeswalkers and disruption. Sigarda is my to-go-for-card, but I have to resolve GSZ to do so.
G1: This game was so stupid. He drew lands and counterspells, I only drew crap and veteran explorers, which actually killed him. At some point I had 3, so he had to flash in Snapcaster, flashback Abrupt Decay one of my veterans, after which I decayed his Snapcaster mage. The final remaining two veterans killed him. I think I attacked around 10 times with veterans and nothing really happened.
G2: He had control and I a poor hand with a mulligan or 2 I think. I got Jaced.
G3: He kept a bit wacky hand with 4 land, 2 FoW and a Perish. My turn 2 Cabal on Fow left him with nothing and I was able to resolve my GSZ quickly afterwards for a Sigarda. He tried but couldn’t get rid of her (she killed Jace, Lily and then him).
3-1-2

I picked a French Stifle as my prize and got a lot of play testing, unfortunately not against the decks I was looking for but I learned that the second Far/Away was too much. I don’t like a single Nemesis as it dies to my own deeds and 5-7 turns swinging with a 3/1 doesn’t seem like a sound strategy to me. I’m now thinking of -1 Far/Away, +1 Eternal Witness. Sometimes it would have been very helpful to GSZ for a removal spell via EWitness. However, my blue count is now only 16 MB. Usually I take out 2 counterspell for the FoWs against control decks with wasteland (e.g. R6), but that will have to change then. I want at least 17 blue cards when boarding in 4 FoW. I haven’t been able to test my Sideboard much, but Golgari Charm was a nice card, I will keep that one for sure. Daze is mainly there for combo which I didn’t face, so haven’t been able to test it.
Currently pondering over Phyrexian Metamorph for the main deck to increase the blue count (instead of Witness for example) and maybe True-Name Nemesis in the SB instead of Daze, for control decks. Several might actually be good against control. Overall I was pretty satisfied though with the list. It needs a little tuning, but it performs really well so far. Any feedback is of course welcome!

This is an interesting approach to BUG Fit and I think it has good potential. Some or many Negates in the main deck seem great. I also like the Sigarda just for GSZ a lot. Thought about it and didn't go for it, but it is probably right. With Brainstorm and Jace she won't get stuck in hand and there is nothing even remotely close to her in power level.

Here is what I think you should definetely change:
- I still think that playing 1 Mountain for 1 Huntmaster as the only Red card in the 75 is ridiculously bad.
- Witness is really, really good when you have 4 Decay, 4 Therapy and 4 Brainstorm to get back (Therapies to use flashback, too) and GSZ to search it.

I'd cut the Far Away and the Huntmaster for a Witness and a 3rd Jace.

Took angry mountains to the tourney I talked about earlier. 20 players.
I ended up 3-1-1.
R1 vs monored sneak attack / through the breach.dec. That an even worse matchup than SneakShow... Lost horribly.
R2 vs GBW rector fit. He usually playes ScapeWish but wanted to try out someting different. I rip his hand apart game 1 and manage to draw dud after dud. I eventually have alle but 7 mountians and 1 vakalut in play. No tops, no wish, no scapeshift, no gsz->titan. Nothing. I loose to nightmare into yosei lock. When im locked out i topdeck wish... G2 he rectors a leyline of sanctity. I go beatdown with lots of dudes. G3 he has leyline again. I get to 8 lands during turns and need to rip runner runner. (Deed, bwish or scapeshift) he finds yosei on his 2nd turn and uses phyrexian tower to lock 5 lands. I rip deed but cant cast it (no green available). He eot surgicals my bwishes. Boohoo
R3 vs punishing zoo. Allmost a bye
R4 vs bug delver (without goyfs...) I turn 1 therapy, turn 2 therapy, therapy. Turn 3 vetex flash ack therapy. Prett silly. He rips tombstalker but i land scapeshift for 36. G2 is more or less a copy of game 1. I just dont need t therapy him as much as he muls to 5.
R5 vs elves. This is going to be hard. He hoofs me to 5 on turn 3 or 4. The next turn he goes 3x glimpse into doooooooods. If he were to not rip NO/GSZ/hoof I will win (enough dudes to survive an attakc to the 3 dudes he has active. But 3 glimpse do what was to be expected. Close so i feel confident. G2 I rip had hand apart and go aggro with huntmaster + token. G3 i deed him 5 for 1. After that i drop huntmaster, huntmaster. He puts up a fight but i spaughter games his good cards.

All in all I had a blast again with ScapeWish. Its just a great deck play if you enjoy Nicfit ;)

Hi guys!

So i've been thinking about getting to legacy for a while, and i really don't wan't to play burn or some cheap combo deck like oops. My meta is mostly fair decks, and the few people who play combo play oops or omniclash. After reading this thread for a while, i'll say that i really like what this archetype looks like. I am on a pretty tight budget (about 200e), so i won't be getting ABU duals, but i already own most shocks.

What nic fit version would you suggest? Or is it better to not play nic fit at all?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantern of Insight

Hi guys!

So i've been thinking about getting to legacy for a while, and i really don't wan't to play burn or some cheap combo deck like oops. My meta is mostly fair decks, and the few people who play combo play oops or omniclash. After reading this thread for a while, i'll say that i really like what this archetype looks like. I am on a pretty tight budget (about 200e), so i won't be getting ABU duals, but i already own most shocks.

What nic fit version would you suggest? Or is it better to not play nic fit at all?

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Do you have Fetchlands already?

Yeah you could get most of the Non lands in a GB shell for that. I think my original Nic FIt Build (no duals, straight GB) was around 400-500 USD with fetches.

I only own most of the duals from scars to theros and a few 10th edit. ones.

Fetches are pretty important, not only for mana fixing but also for Sensei's Top. I'm sure you can build a sub optimal mana base in this deck, thanks to veteran explorers ramp, but it could definitely be improved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantern of Insight

I only own most of the duals from scars to theros and a few 10th edit. ones.

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Overgrown tombs will work since you will be fetching basics most of the time, but you really need the fetch lands. Catacombs and Flats will be the cheapest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Star|Scream

Overgrown tombs will work since you will be fetching basics most of the time, but you really need the fetch lands. Catacombs and Flats will be the cheapest.

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Yeah fetches are important. More important than duals.

I think i will be able to buy/trade a few fetches for this deck. Thanks for helping me out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantern of Insight

I think i will be able to buy/trade a few fetches for this deck. Thanks for helping me out!

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Do you have any of the non lands? Like creatures/green suns/decays? Im just also assuming you have some of the more recent cards that are commonly played in the deck.

Of the expensive cards i own only 2 tusks, 2 decays's, 1 thoughtseize and 1 flip garruk.

getting your hand on fetches is key #1. Not only because it'll smooth your manabase and working well with top, but it also allows you to have a piece that goes into another deck. I would say Catacombs is top as it allows you to have access to any other B and/or G deck.

As others have said, shocks will be fine, but if you can snipe the relevant duals, it will be a boon for you. After that, I'd say go after tops, but I feel deed is more important.

The best thing about this deck is that most of our threats are cards that were/are good, but people dismiss. Huntmaster of the Fells in red versions being one. I would of said prime time, but Rock Lee on here would beg to differ at that being a card not commonly seen in legacy (12-post has been showing up more after last year.)

Another boon is the reprinting of 'sieze as that was a barrier to me building the deck.

Basically: As long as your smart about your pickk-ups, you can build this deck easily. Just make sure to go for multi-deck staples first, so that if you leave the deck, you have parts to others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantern of Insight

Of the expensive cards i own only 2 tusks, 2 decays's, 1 thoughtseize and 1 flip garruk.

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Tusk isn't expensive. He's like $3 now.

My advice for a budget Nic Fit:

-) Get your Veterans and your Therapies. They are the soul of the archetype.
-) Get your Tops. They are our Brainstorm.
-) Stick with GB. Splashing a color is doable but dangerous because it necessitates more expensive cards (by definition you're adding a color to add something).
-) Get your Deeds. They, along with Therapy, are how we control what our opponents are doing with the mana we give them.
-) Treetop Villages. More so if you can get a Primeval Titan, but even without a Titan, Treetops are solid anti-flood tech since you won't have thinning via fetches.
-) Get your Green Sun's Zeniths. They tie your creature base together, and give you a very high chance to topdeck a bomb lategame with every draw step.

What you don't NEED:

-) Fetches. Are they nice? Yes. Mandatory? No. Put in the full set of Sakura-Tribe Elders and Wood Elves, and tick your overall land count down to 19-20. Ideal? Not by a long stretch -- but it'll function why you work on getting the more expensive stuff.
-) Big bomby things. Since you have Tusks, that's great. For other threats, just use whatever huge draft common / EDH staple you happen to have in-color. You could make a very convincing argument for running [card]Soul of the Harvest[/cards] over Primeval Titan, including that Soul costs pennies vs Titan's dollars. You could probably make Nic Fit win by putting Craw Wurms in it if you had to.
-) Revised duals. Especially if you're sticking with just G/B for now. Overgrown Tombs will suffice.

--------

If, after Veterans, Therapies, Deeds, Tops, and Zeniths you have anything left at all, I would suggest either rounding out G/B (Primeval Titan, Volrath's Stronghold, Phyrexian Tower, Thrun, etc), or working on fetches, so you can reduce the Sakura-Tribes and Wood Elves and up your land count, which will lead to fewer problems overall.

Another viable course of action is to pick up Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fires, and a Wolf Run. With a Stomping Ground and a Blood Crypt you could probably emulate Punishing Fit fairly easliy. Even without the Groves, it might be a good idea to pick up a Kessig Wolf Run and put in a couple of red sources.

I'm not saying you're going to win a ton of events with it. But if it gets you into the format and set up to the point where you can start prizing locals, you can use that credit to make your list better. It'll probably be a long road before you'll have a fully powered version of the deck, but it should still be sufficient enough to be competitive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kavaki

getting your hand on fetches is key #1. Not only because it'll smooth your manabase and working well with top, but it also allows you to have a piece that goes into another deck. I would say Catacombs is top as it allows you to have access to any other B and/or G deck.

As others have said, shocks will be fine, but if you can snipe the relevant duals, it will be a boon for you. After that, I'd say go after tops, but I feel deed is more important.

The best thing about this deck is that most of our threats are cards that were/are good, but people dismiss. Huntmaster of the Fells in red versions being one. I would of said prime time, but Rock Lee on here would beg to differ at that being a card not commonly seen in legacy (12-post has been showing up more after last year.)

Another boon is the reprinting of 'sieze as that was a barrier to me building the deck.

Basically: As long as your smart about your pickk-ups, you can build this deck easily. Just make sure to go for multi-deck staples first, so that if you leave the deck, you have parts to others.

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In principal I would agree with you, but with a budget of 200 E, I don't realistically see Lantern being able to hop decks easily. Given that I would expect him to be playing Nic Fit for a while off of fiscal reasons along, I think that the fetches can be deferred for a few months.