[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

So has everyone can to the same conclusion I did last week that the deck really needs 19-20 lands in this Meta?

I'm running the following 19 right now:
4 Trops
3 Volc
4 Scalding
4 Wooded

I keep feeling like I want to go up one more land. looking at adding either a Volc or a Taiga. Me reasoning is that in the mirror match and against Knight decks I run into the issue of getting wastelocked out of a game. Even LftL is useless at that point. I've had opponents within Bolt range with a bolt in my hand several times now and just couldn't find the 1 land I needed to seal the deal. These aren't games that I should be losing, as I had already essentially won them by that point.

Another question, against the Tribal decks, siding in Rough/Tumble seems correct, but I want to go back to Chain Lightning. Has anyone else tried out the Chain build recently?

Nid, if your meta is really causing you a lot of mana problems, than maybe I could see adding in the taiga as land #20. Personally though, I've dropped the 19th land for a Gitaxian probe, even in the face of goblins and Merfolk. When you lose to wasteland, it's rare that another naturally drawn land or loam is going to get you back into the game in time to win. Whether its gobbos, fish, or gw, they should have enough pressure to just bury you. Those bolt situations you've had are frustrating, but I wouldn't let it get to you. It happens. 19 lands should still be plenty to keep you in the game without flooding.

I also want to go back to chain lightning, but if you feel the need for rough/ tumble and more lands in your meta, you might as well back it up with forked bolts and some fire/ice.

If you are having land problems I would add a Basic Island over the Taiga. It Cannot be wasted, Avoids Moon effects & Back to Basics. Island also allows for better turn 1 plays and isn't an auto mull if its your only land, Ive always been able to dig up another land through Ponders and Brainstorm. Ive ran the single Island for awhile & have been real happy with it. Never been a fan of Taiga.

All the Turn 1 cards I would want to play are Blue anyways.
(T1 Delver with daze backup with an un-wasteable land is pretty good.)
Stifle/Pierce/Snare
Brainstorm/Ponder
Daze
Delver

Most of the R/G cards that Taiga taps for I wouldn't want to play turn 1 anyways.
Bolt (Id rather Daze their t1 threat)
Mongoose

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Originally Posted by Borealis

Nid, if your meta is really causing you a lot of mana problems, than maybe I could see adding in the taiga as land #20. Personally though, I've dropped the 19th land for a Gitaxian probe, even in the face of goblins and Merfolk. When you lose to wasteland, it's rare that another naturally drawn land or loam is going to get you back into the game in time to win. Whether its gobbos, fish, or gw, they should have enough pressure to just bury you. Those bolt situations you've had are frustrating, but I wouldn't let it get to you. It happens. 19 lands should still be plenty to keep you in the game without flooding.

I also want to go back to chain lightning, but if you feel the need for rough/ tumble and more lands in your meta, you might as well back it up with forked bolts and some fire/ice.

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Probe was an alternative I was considering. I've played against the deck running Probe, and he seemed to be running much smoother than I was. Our manabases were identical as well.

I'll try the Chain Lightning this week. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one that thought it was a good idea with the way the Meta is going. Thinking 3 Chains and 2 Rough/Tumbles out of the board. Should make the Maverick matchup easier without having to rely on Curse Totem as well.

I'm still a huge fan of 4 stifle +18 lands. My real concern is how to fit in stifles and 2 ooze main without sacrificing other matchups beyond my breaking point. You guys are going on about 20 lands, when I find my cantrips are finding me all I need with just 18.

A basic sounds good for Path effects, but the real way to beat wasteland is non-basics, or back to my first point, stifle. Fetching that basic when you only have one will make it very difficult for you to have access to green and red as early as possible in the face of wastes. You'll usually be cut off a color.

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

Where do you guys fall in regards to these card choices (Stifle vs. Pierce vs. Snare vs. Scour)?

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I think it might be time to ditch Stifle for Thought Scour. I haven't played Magic recently, but goobafish has cut Stifles, the winner of GP Atlanta didn't run Stifles, and Kenny Castor (who finished 2nd at GP Providence) has cut Stifles for Thought Scours. That's three high-profile players who have left the Stifle bandwagon.

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

I think it might be time to ditch Stifle for Thought Scour. I haven't played Magic recently, but goobafish has cut Stifles, the winner of GP Atlanta didn't run Stifles, and Kenny Castor (who finished 2nd at GP Providence) has cut Stifles for Thought Scours. That's three high-profile players who have left the Stifle bandwagon.

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American lists haven't often run stifle, in no small part thanks to Drew Levin. Europe lists all have it.

I actually think its because stifle is just not great right now. Drew may be right on occasion, but that doesn't mean people blindly follow him. I don't run stifle because it's often worth less than a card, which is unacceptable, and because people weren't blindly walking into them anymore. Once people truly forget about stifle, it will get great again, but in the meantime it just doesn't do enough for the rest of us on this side of the pond.

Stifle is still good when you know how to dagger your opponents. If you are just hoping for the turn 1 fetch and see the card useless beyond that ofcourse it's going to be a dead draw. With Daze+Spell Pierce you can force people into running into Stifle. There are the miracle triggers, Engineered Explosives, Emrakul triggers and much more. When it's stranded in your hand to become FoW fodder it feels bad, but I'm not sure if I'd close the door against so many options for the times they become useless. I just need a better alternative and to me Thought Scour isn't doing "that much" for the deck.

How do you want to beat Goblins without Stifle?

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Originally Posted by Iron Buddha

How do you want to beat Goblins without Stifle?

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Playing Tarmogoyfs turn 2, 3 and 4 :D

Totally agree. Goblins with Cavern is very tough & Stifleling matron, ringleader is key.

Thought Scour can have a nice random utility, but as mentioned by the former posters Stifle does so much for the deck. Batterskulls living weapon, Jace's bounce, Denying Jitte counters, Narcomoeba, cephalid coliseum, Veteran Explorer, Deed, Miracle Triggers, Relic of Progenitus,...

Stifling Fetch number 3 or 4 can make a huge impact, but protection from other wastelands is also a big factor. People who suggest to run more than 18 lands could consider running stifle again...

Goblins can still beat us without ringleader and matron, and I don't see stifle changing tha match all that much. Also, I didn't say stifle is dead after turn 1, it's that it's not always worth a card. All those triggers are great, but stifling them is often only buying you one turn. Emrakul still deals 15, batterskull is still in play, and jitte is still going to get active on the next combat phase.

I understand why stifle is good. But I also understand that it can be very weak all too often. Just because it has an infinity of targets doesn't mean it's powerful. But again, Stifle IS powerful, it just depends on the meta and who is prepared for it. Right now isn't that time for me, but the first person to try it again and win another starcity will have had the element of surprise yet again.

Thought scour is a different card, and I don't consider them the same slot. Sure you could cut them and burn/ counter slot to fit 4 stifle, but you Mongeese will get worse. If you are okay with that, and want stifle again, go for it. I like 3/3s and cantrips.

I was testing preboard against merfolk today and this matchup seems horrible. it's no longer reliable to kill their lord of atlantis and block with green creatures I'm being put into racing situations against a deck with more creatures then me. this is the final thing that made me feel the need to play a rough and tumble in the board. I'm not sure but i feel that with 3 pyroblasts and 2 rough and tumble the matchup might improve.

Sounds overboard to me. Delver backed with 2 pieces of removal should get there

I ran 7 burn spells maindeck and 1 Fire-ice, 1 Rough tumble and 3 red-blast and 2 ancient grudge in the SB in my local tourny on wednesday (4:1 btw loosing to maverick in the final) and my Merfolk matchup felt good. Since I cut 2 Submerge for that additional SB burn I really missed them against Maverick.

Only 2 Submerge, 1 Sulfur Elemental and a 10 burn spells did not feel enough.

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Originally Posted by UnsungHero

If you are having land problems I would add a Basic Island over the Taiga. It Cannot be wasted, Avoids Moon effects & Back to Basics. Island also allows for better turn 1 plays and isn't an auto mull if its your only land, Ive always been able to dig up another land through Ponders and Brainstorm. Ive ran the single Island for awhile & have been real happy with it. Never been a fan of Taiga.

All the Turn 1 cards I would want to play are Blue anyways.
(T1 Delver with daze backup with an un-wasteable land is pretty good.)
Stifle/Pierce/Snare
Brainstorm/Ponder
Daze
Delver

Most of the R/G cards that Taiga taps for I wouldn't want to play turn 1 anyways.
Bolt (Id rather Daze their t1 threat)
Mongoose

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Yeah, I have tried that. I just have to not forget that the Island is in there. Too often I will Fetch for Volc or Trop just so I can play out my hand faster, which lead to me cutting it for a Trop.

I chalk it up to not enough practice with the deck. I gotta quit switching decks so often I think.

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Originally Posted by catmint

I ran 7 burn spells maindeck and 1 Fire-ice, 1 Rough tumble and 3 red-blast and 2 ancient grudge in the SB in my local tourny on wednesday (4:1 btw loosing to maverick in the final) and my Merfolk matchup felt good. Since I cut 2 Submerge for that additional SB burn I really missed them against Maverick.

Only 2 Submerge, 1 Sulfur Elemental and a 10 burn spells did not feel enough.

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This is the Matchup I'm having the most difficulty with. The Fish are fast, and I have resorted to trying to burn everything they put on the board.

I'm not running Stifle, I don't want to be dead against SnT, and Spell Pierce is infinitely better in the matchup. I would rather MD REB than run Stifle. Don't get me wrong Stifle has it's uses, but I have never liked the card unless I was pitching it to FOW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catmint

I ran 7 burn spells maindeck and 1 Fire-ice, 1 Rough tumble and 3 red-blast and 2 ancient grudge in the SB in my local tourny on wednesday (4:1 btw loosing to maverick in the final) and my Merfolk matchup felt good. Since I cut 2 Submerge for that additional SB burn I really missed them against Maverick.

Only 2 Submerge, 1 Sulfur Elemental and a 10 burn spells did not feel enough.

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What does your maindeck look like? I would like to see what you cut to fit in extra burn.

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Originally Posted by Rekk

where is the like button when you need it
+1 for foiling out your deck

the snapcaster doesn't make sense to me since alot of the strength of the deck is being able to brainstorm away your 3rd land .

another question is, do people still try that hooooooorrrrible plan of surgicaling your nonbasics (which makes the taiga relevant, i prefer to be able to cast my 11 cantrips over not losing to people who are terrible and board surgical
as for g/w i've found that switching out one bolt for a forked bolt has helped, (3 forked 3 lightning bolt)

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I understand your point about Snapcaster, but the singleton has been pretty awesome at times. In the last tournament I went Bolt, Bolt, Snapcaster Bolt to outrace Dredge in game one on the back of a turn 1 delver. Ironically, the same thing happened in Game two, but this time with crypt and surgical to help out. There are times where you can't shuffle away that extra land and these are the times where snappy shines. I'd recommend you read this article http://manadeprived.com/2012/07/cana...-a-primer.html.

I find it to be a flex spot, where some people are running ooze maindeck. Personally, it's a meta call.

Yes people are still doing that lame Surgical on your Tropical thing, actually had this happen to me on MTGO the other day vs. a goblins player. I was slightly surprised he brought it in against me.

Either way, I originally had an island in the 19th spot and just recently switched to Taiga. Seeing Taiga in your opening hand as your only land is a huge drawback and one of the reasons I might switch back. If I were to cut snappy, I would be running 18 lands so it's really a irrelevant point then. One of the reasons I was trying Taiga was because I got tired of an opening hand where I had to make a choice between tropical or volcanic knowing one would get wasted.

I suppose both methods have their merits and so far in testing I've been happy with the Taiga.

What is everyones take on Cursed Totem? I want to run additional hate other than submerges for my maverick matchup. With this board, what would you bring in and what would you take out?

4 Submerge
2 Cursed Totem
2 Rough/Tumble
2 Pyroblast
1 Scavening Ooze
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Surgical Extraction

Do I bring in 4 Submerge, 2 Totem and 2 Tumbles, if so, what would you take out?

My metagame has a lot of UW miracles now hence i am running 4 stifles, solely to stifle their terminus, jace or entreat the angels. Besides that stifles are not really useful. Any alternatives or strategies to fight UW miracles without stifle?