[Deck] Merfolk

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

Zoo is a bad match-up, but it's not unwinnable. In my mind, there are two basic variations that do better than the rest of the twists on Merfolk do against Zoo. These are the mono-blue, 12 lords + heavy mana denial plan; and the "splash white" plan.

I believe the white splash is truly the best variant you can run as far as the Zoo match-up is concerned. This is because they don't run any mana disruption, so you can rely on having white mana when you need it, and you get to play 8 spot removal spells in games 2 & 3 (and 4 maindeck StP in game one). Also, White offers a lot of other stuff that's fairly viable against Zoo besides just StP and PtE: Absolute Law, Jotun Grunt, Burrenton Forge Tender, etc. I'm sure there are a few things I'm forgetting.

Anyways, the mono-blue mana denial plan with 12 lords also seems to work well, but I feel that Zoo is one matchup where it is actually less consistent. With this build, you not only need a pretty fast opening hand to be able to match their clock, you need to have mana disruption at key times and be able to clog their hand. If they get a fetch off and get the basic land they need, you might just be screwed.

I don't think Jitte is worthwhile in this matchup, and if you want to hear a bunch of argumentation about this particular subject, it's in there somewhere in this thread. I don't feel like reiterating.

EDIT: Also, the only deck that Sea Sprite could possibly belong in is Faeries, and I've noticed that no version of that deck uses him... So draw your own conclusions on that one. :wink:

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Its not unwinnable. Well depends on your build. Stifle main hurts them. Snare of the board hits their Pridemages, Libraries, Helix and Goyfs. Snare + Stifle main is a house against Zoo. You, however, lose out on other spells bec of it.

That being said, has anyone tried 4 Stifle, 4 Trickster and 4 Wasteland as a way to combat fetches and non-basics? Im beginning to miss this deck I would like to semi-retire my Zoo for a while. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by DCTopTeam

Its not unwinnable. Well depends on your build. Stifle main hurts them. Snare of the board hits their Pridemages, Libraries, Helix and Goyfs. Snare + Stifle main is a house against Zoo. You, however, lose out on other spells bec of it.

That being said, has anyone tried 4 Stifle, 4 Trickster and 4 Wasteland as a way to combat fetches and non-basics? Im beginning to miss this deck I would like to semi-retire my Zoo for a while. Thanks!

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I forgot about Kira :laugh:

Triple post merged. Don't do that. - Bardo

I had tried it awhile back with a dread-folk variant. Though I inconsistently found myself with a lot of dead cards and ended up swapping trickbinds for shapesharers during the stint.

Anyways, I highly recommend testing it if it means veering you away from that evil zoo deck :laugh:

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Originally Posted by luckme10

I had tried it awhile back with a dread-folk variant. Though I inconsistently found myself with a lot of dead cards and ended up swapping trickbinds for shapesharers during the stint.

Anyways, I highly recommend testing it if it means veering you away from that evil zoo deck :laugh:

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LOL! Im currently testing the SB now Threads, Propaganda, Harness etc. Will post the results.

I'm interested in maybe playing some Merfolk in the near future so I checked some recent lists. What struck me was some people playing Tidal Courier. Is he good? I'd really be happy to play the Merfolk Ringleader but I don't know...do you have to run the Banneret to make him worth it? Does that work out? Or is it just to cute?

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Originally Posted by Julian23

I'm interested in maybe playing some Merfolk in the near future so I checked some recent lists. What struck me was some people playing Tidal Courier. Is he good? I'd really be happy to play the Merfolk Ringleader but I don't know...do you have to run the Banneret to make him worth it? Does that work out? Or is it just to cute?

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Bannerets and Reejeries working together is sick, especially in multiples. Throw in Tidal Courier and you can explode onto the field. However, that takes a lot of time to set up, reduces the number of lords we can run, and further increases our vulnerability to sweepers. As you suspected, it's cute but less consistent. Generally speaking, Standstill is enough card draw for this deck. The most recent 6-7 listings on deckcheck show only a handful of Tidal Couriers, so they're likely the exception, not the rule.

I would really suggest not to play Tidal Courier. Why?

Average amount of Goblins in a Goblindeck: ~32

Average amount of Merfolk in a Merfolkdeck: ~20

Just play a bit with the deck and you will also notice practically, that you will have a lot of draws where 4 cards in a row are no merfolk or only 1. And to play Merfolk like Goblins just does not make sence. Merfolk is the most controlish tribe of all, thats just not the way it should be played. We just do not have 30+ playable Merfolks.

Tidal Courier was necessary until Mutavault came out. Then we all got to running Standstill, and the couriers were unnecessary. And the deck got a lot better.

I don't see Tidal Courier being played because of what has been stated, there just isn't enough merfolk in the deck.

Though I disagree that it is the most controlish of all the tribal, the point of the deck is play creatures that make each other bigger and swing for the win. We just have counter back up to stop threats that stop our creatures from swinging. The reason why Merfolk isn't played as much (at least in my meta) is because it has gone away from that plan.

How can you have a heavy denial plan with 12 lords, not to mention fow/daze/vial/standstill?

Incidentally, just to keep up with my "posting results and shit" streak, and since I did a more in-depth analysis on the SCG 5k in LA:


8 people showed up with Merfolk, no top 8 finishes, but one people finished in the money (T16), and one other person went 6-2 only knocked out by tiebreakers to 17th place (the only 18 point player who didn't finish 9-16, so sucks for him).

3 people finished with less than 50% PGW (I think that's the most important statistic when analyzing a deck). The average game win percentage was 53.77%.

The average matchwin was 53.85%.



Merfolk is still a solid pick, but no longer is it dominant. The downward trend also continues.

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Originally Posted by Finn

Tidal Courier was necessary until Mutavault came out. Then we all got to running Standstill, and the couriers were unnecessary. And the deck got a lot better.

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This is the key. Tidal Courier could still be played, but once Mutavault was found and tested, Courier became obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Forbiddian

Merfolk is still a solid pick, but no longer is it dominant. The downward trend also continues.

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I would say that Merfolk is a metagame pick now. If one is expecting Goblins, Zoo, and Aggro Loam (like in the SCG $5K), then Merfolk is the wrong call. Yet, if one is expecting mostly Counterbalance decks along with some combo, then Merfolk could definitely put up a strong showing. It is obviously no longer a deck that someone should run randomly and expect to do well.

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Originally Posted by HAVE HEART

This is the key. Tidal Courier could still be played, but once Mutavault was found and tested, Courier became obsolete.



I would say that Merfolk is a metagame pick now. If one is expecting Goblins, Zoo, and Aggro Loam (like in the SCG $5K), then Merfolk is the wrong call. Yet, if one is expecting mostly Counterbalance decks along with some combo, then Merfolk could definitely put up a strong showing. It is obviously no longer a deck that someone should run randomly and expect to do well.

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Aggro Meta - Not Merfolk

Blue Meta - Merfolk

I am planning to play a tournament next weekend.

The problem is I don't really know the meta (although theres a possibility of aggro-control decks running rampant). There is a possibility of Goblins.

I am planning to pilot this Merfolk deck:

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11 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Mutavault
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge

4 AEther Vial

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Merfolk Sovereign
2 Wakethrasher

4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
3 Stifle

SB:
3 Hydroblast
3 Mind Harness
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Pithing Needle
2 Propaganda

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It is obviously a mono-blue build. I am planning to convert it into U/W for Swords to Plowshares but I dont have any Flooded Strands or Tundras. The closest thing that I have are Wanderwine Hub and Plains. Would this list be good enough in an unknown meta? It is a typical Merfolk list.

Maindeck questions:

Should I remove Stifle and run Spell Pierce on its place? Maybe Cosi's Trickster?

For the longest time, I've seen arguments between Wake Thrasher and Merfolk Sovereign. Why not run both? I know it floods the 3-spot but isn't that what Vials are for? It really helps Vials at 3.

Sideboard choices:
Hydroblast - Just in case red gets in the way. I dont have Blue Elemental Blasts.
Mind Harness - Just in case Goyf and company shows up.
Relic of Progenitus - Anti-Goyf/Grim Lavamancer measure. Did I mention that its also for gravehate?
Kira - If theres too much spot removal going on.
Pithing Needle - Stops activations that hurts us, such as Jitte.
Propaganda - Stops early swarming.

I was going to run Back to Basics. I read a post here that turned into an argument about B2B. Apparently, it is not good enough in a Merfolk list.

If anyone has any helpful comments or suggestions, please feel free to add.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

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Running only 19 lands is risky. Also get rid of the Minamo and replace it with an Island. the only additional advantage I can see it has getting an extra untap for Wakethrasher, and Kira doesn't need to be untapped to be relevant. The big disadvantage it has is that it makes a blue source vurnerable to Wasteland, that fact alone makes it even as a one-of impossible to play. Daze also becomes less stable for you.

Stifle seems to be optional nowadays, which I find to be a huge mistake. Stifle is an incredible weapon against more than just fetchlands. Stifling one Lackey trigger for example could very well mean the difference between winning or losing.

Wake Thrasher vs. Sovereign is preference imo. Both aren't the best, but they both aren't the worst either. If only Sovereign had a slightly more relevant ability or Wake Thrasher had been a 2/2, then the pick would've been alot easier. My preference lies with Sovereign though.

I havent had any problems with 19 lands, although I am running mono-blue.

I do agree that Stifle is really good with the meta, whether it be Goblin Piledriver's trigger to Pernicious Deed's activation.

How does my sideboard look? Good enough or is it suboptimal?

I would have to second the comments regarding stifle. I piloted a merfolk deck in a small tournament at my local shop a month ago and went undefeated in swiss. Stifle was an all-star the whole day. The number of tricks I was able to pull off and cause my opponents headaches with stifle made me wish I was running 4 instead of 3. I can't imagine not running stifle in a merfolk deck.

@ Nameless one, personally I would:
-1 Minamo, -1 Sovereign
+1 Island, +1 Mutavault

Do you know if there will be any other Merfolk decks there? Thats when Wake Thrasher will pay off best for you.

I think B2B is fine but everyone has their opinions on it. My take on your board would be:
4 Hydro
4 Relic
3 Submerge
2 Kira
2 Back to Basics

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Originally Posted by AcidFiend

@ Nameless one, personally I would:
-1 Minamo, -1 Sovereign
+1 Island, +1 Mutavault

Do you know if there will be any other Merfolk decks there? Thats when Wake Thrasher will pay off best for you.

I think B2B is fine but everyone has their opinions on it. My take on your board would be:
4 Hydro
4 Relic
3 Submerge
2 Kira
2 Back to Basics

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I currently do not have a 4th Mutavault. I didnt get a 4th one because on my proxy playtesting, It was always a pain and a half to get that early second blue source.

I doubt that theres going to be other Merfolks around. Wake Thrasher did win me a couple of games from behind. Droping him at the end of turn and swing next turn has been dope.

I am guessing that Submerge is better than Mind Harness? Does anyone agree to that?

I would imagine that Back to Basics will be used against Zoo. According to this thread's history, that strategy barely works and it backfires on your Mutavaults. But playtesting won't hurt.

Thanks! It helped me with a lot of things. Although I could use more feedback. The more the better.

I think you need some echoing truths mainboard (at least in the sb) you have no way of stopping resolved cards like moat or threats that stop your fish from winning. Not to mention bouncing creatures at end of turn.

I would rather have echoing truths then stifle. Stifle tricks are cute, but fish doesn't want to keep mana open for it. You want to play fish and counter/remove anything that stops that from happening.

Also mind harness is better then submerge, though submerge is good vs fetch which is also cute but taking their creatures is better. I do think 3 mind harness is a little much because of the mana investment so maybe 2 mind harness and a threads of disloyality.

I also don't think 2 back to basics won't help at all, they are to slow and hurt you as well, not to mention being a 2 of.

This deck is really awesome, but mostly against decks that run blue (read: Island). In an aggro infested metagame this is not the best choice of deck. When looking at reports and decklist from both america and europe there are alot of aggro, and merfolks places lower and lower on the standings. Is that not an indication that this deck should perhaps step down for a while from DTB and into the established deck forum?

On-topic:

no#1:
12 Islands
3 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

21 creatures with acc = 2,238 (remember Vial@3 solves everything)
20 spells with acc = 1,250 (counting FoW as 0)

no#2:
12 Islands
4 Mutavault
4 Island

20 creatures with acc = 2,200 (remember Vial@3 solves everything)
20 spells with acc = 1,250 (counting FoW as 0)

So I cut one of the two Kiras for an extra Mutavault. Is that the right thing to do? With a playset of Standstill ofcourse I want to run as many manlands as possible but alot of the times I end up getting dead cards in the middlegame (aka lands). Is 20/20/20 lands/creatures/spells a nice split or should I up the creaturecount? (remember the 4 mutas). How many lands do you run and why?

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Originally Posted by SlopeeJ

I think you need some echoing truths mainboard (at least in the sb) you have no way of stopping resolved cards like moat or threats that stop your fish from winning. Not to mention bouncing creatures at end of turn.

I would rather have echoing truths then stifle. Stifle tricks are cute, but fish doesn't want to keep mana open for it. You want to play fish and counter/remove anything that stops that from happening.

Also mind harness is better then submerge, though submerge is good vs fetch which is also cute but taking their creatures is better. I do think 3 mind harness is a little much because of the mana investment so maybe 2 mind harness and a threads of disloyality.

I also don't think 2 back to basics won't help at all, they are to slow and hurt you as well, not to mention being a 2 of.

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New sideboard to an unknown meta:

3 Echoing Truth
3 Hydroblast
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Pithing Needle
2 Propaganda

I'm not really sideboarding against a particular build. I'm trying to make it as flexible as possible since it's somehow an unknown meta.

Does it look okay or still need little fixings?